‘Pure greed:’ Etiquette expert explains why tipping has gotten out of control

Perhaps you’ve noticed. We have reached a tipping point in the country over tipping.

To tip or not to tip has led to Shakespearean soliloquies by customers explaining why they refuse to tip for certain things.

During the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, customers were grateful for those who seemingly risked their safety so we could get groceries, order dinner or anything that made our lives feel normal. A nice tip was the least we could do to show gratitude.

But now that we are out about and back to normal, the custom of tipping for just about everything has somehow remained; and customers are upset.

A new study from Pew Research shows most American adults say tipping is expected in more places than it was five years ago, and there’s no real consensus about how tipping should work.

superduperenigma,

I went to a brewery recently where they swipe your card at the entrance and hand you a little black credit card type thing. You find your own seats, you go grab a glass, and you insert the card into a slot at a beer tap and pour your own beer, priced by the ounce. If you want food, you go to a kiosk, put your card in, and order food. When it’s ready, you go to the kitchen and pick it up to bring back to your seat. When you leave, you bring the card back up to the register and they charge you for all the food and drink. But then it asks you how much you wanna tip. Who the fuck am I tipping? I was my own host, my own bartender, my own waiter, my own bus boy. I haven’t seen an actual employee here except for some woman who swiped my credit card during a 5 second interaction.

teejay,

… so you tipped $0, right? Don’t leave us hanging!

superpants,

Since it was at a brewery he should’ve tipped $0 anyway

Mauserr,

I always thought it was $1/drink (obviously when they serve it to you)

Wilziac,

For easy drinks (beer, wine, or simple liquor/ soda mixes), $1 is fine. If they have to bust out a tool like a muddler or peeler, you should probably give more than $1.

superduperenigma,

I tipped $0

HorseWithNoName,

Wtf is the point of this. Even if they wanted to save on labor costs of wait staff and everything why not just use your own card instead of trading it for a temporary card.

It’s like this pizza place I went to recently. They had a little arcade so I went to put some quarters in and realized I had to go buy tokens at a machine first. It wasn’t Dave and Busters or anything, just a hole in the wall with a few games in a corner. I didn’t buy any tokens. Same with laundromats that now want you to buy tokens ahead of time.

There isn’t a single business anymore that isn’t trying to just blatantly scam you out of your money. They used to at least be more subtle about it.

roguetrick,

They don't want to handle coins essentially. Going to the bank to exchange coins for cash every day is a huge part of the labor cost, so they make you use tokens that not only allows them to get rid of that but also essentially charge you seignorage.

adrian783,

it divorces the act of spending from actual money, so you spend more. like buying gems in a mobile game. also saves on credit card transaction fees.

kent_eh, (edited )

it divorces the act of spending from actual money,

That’s among the reasons why I carry cash for small purchases.

It feels more real when I can see actual physical money going out of my wallet.

wahming,

Because they get charged less by the bank for lower quantity of bigger transactions, instead of high number of small transactions. Also allows for people who have cash but no card to use the system.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

Instead of 7 small transactions (and higher fees) it’s one big transaction.

ChunkMcHorkle, (edited )
@ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world avatar

deleted by creator

wahming,

You’re comparing weeks of spending to a couple hours at a bar though, I’m not sure if that’s really comparable.

There’s a couple other reasons that apply as well:

Because they get charged less by the bank for lower quantity of bigger transactions, instead of high number of small transactions. Also allows for people who have cash but no card to use the system.

ChunkMcHorkle, (edited )
@ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world avatar

deleted by creator

roguetrick,

Wow, this "etiquette expert" grift is more interesting than the article itself. https://www.valerieandcompany.com/

Internationally recognized as a National News Contributor, Valerie is an expert in her field of leadership presence and personal branding. She is one of only 20 Master Brand Strategists worldwide and has received front-page press coverage in the Wall Street Journal as a pioneer in executive coaching.

SCB,

How is this grift? These are all corporate words for “I train existing leaders”

It’s very much a real job.

HorseWithNoName,

It’s very much a real job.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs

roguetrick,

A job who's qualifications comes from news media exposure and being

one of only 20 Master Brand Strategists

Is an absolute corporate grift.

reverendsteveii,

21 now. I declare myself a Master Brand Strategist.

SCB,

Her job is literally to help other people get positive exposure lol

These are real things that people do. She does what a publicist does, only for corporate people. As a CEOs job is literally to attract funding, I’m sure you can see how this is a relevant job.

roguetrick,

It really is a recursive situation of uselessness. She goes onto news media to promote her own ability to make execs feel like she can help them promote their own ability. All we achieve is making corporate leaders feel entitled to their position and more money extracted from people actually creating value.

SCB,

You can hate the system and still recognize that the system has parts.

You don’t like that her job has value, and that’s fine -but it still has value.

Were you not being literal? Did I just completely misunderstand your post?

TimewornTraveler,

You’re being a bit pedantic by correcting people on it. We get it’s a “real job”, we’re saying that it’s BULLSHIT that it’s a real job. It’s a bullshit job. She’s the expert of made up rules that she creates by enforcing and enforces by creating. She makes money, cool, it’s a “job” in that sense, but it’s a bullshit job.

If someone paid me to shit on the sidewalk every day, would you correct people who said “That’s a bullshit job”? “Um it’s a real job”

SCB,

She’s the expert of made up rules that she creates by enforcing and enforces by creating

Our entire society functions via made up rules that don’t make sense and contradict themselves. Ask literally anyone you know on the Spectrum. As long as society exists roles like this will exist.

roguetrick,

I think you just have a structural/functional view of the world that is fundamentally incompatible with how I view it.

Mr_Blott,

Valerie can probably help with that, for a shocking fee

hansl,

Maybe you see the world on How it Should work, not How it Does work. Those two are not incompatible, unless you confuse one for the other.

roguetrick, (edited )

What I'm saying is actually a bit more involved than that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_functionalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conflict_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_value_(economics)

Pseudonaut,

We might be thinking of different meanings of the word value. If value means anything that is worth money, then yes she probably is creating value. If value means something that contributes to society and mankind then… Bullshit job.

Pseudonaut,

There’s no such thing as a “master brand strategist.” Look into David Graeber’s Bullshit Jobs theory. Hers is most likely a bullshit job.

sagrotan,
@sagrotan@lemmy.world avatar

Here in Europe we have something called “salary” and when there’s a price on something, it’s the price. The salary should be fair, at least the law says it has to be and mostly it is. And tipping/bargaining is a business practice that will and should die, too much room for greed/fraud/scamming etc, these times are over. And I don’t bargain. Very few people I know do it like to do. And that’s a good thing. I don’t even bargain with business partners, I expect a fair price calculation from the beginning and that’s what we do with our customers. And there’s a growing trend in business to do this. The room for greed, nepotism and cheating is getting smaller and smaller, some day we’ll have a fairer business landscape, for everybody. If a customer or business partner asks why something has that particular price, I just tell him or her. Easy. If he/she goes to someone else, he’ll or she’ll get a product that hasn’t got our quality, he’s (or she’s) free to do so and people did. And 100% came back to us, not 99%, 100% came back. And if it isn’t like that, there’s something wrong with us or our product. And it makes it so much easier and fairer for everybody. Times are a’changing!

AgentGrimstone,

I don’t mind tipping the services that I have always tipped my whole life, way before COVID even happened: delivery drivers, grocery baggers, barbers, and sit down restaurants where I get served.

marx2k, (edited )

Who the hell tips grocery baggers? Bizarre

AgentGrimstone,

I used to shop on military bases and the commissary baggers have always only worked for tips.

RGB3x3,

Okay, but can we admit that topping barbers is fucking weird?

What is the point of the cost of the haircut if I have to pay more on top of that? Just… Charge more for the haircut.

steeznson,

I tip barbers like taxi drivers where I throw in an extra £1 if I’m paying in cash. I think this makes me eccentric in the UK though; not sure it is normal to tip them. Usually don’t bother adding a tip if paying by card.

Restaurants have recently started adding a discretionary 10% service charge to bills in my city but that is the tip. Wouldn’t tip more than that. If they don’t include it in the bill I try to work out something like 12% from quick mental maths and add that on.

I’ve noticed the till checkouts have options to tip in some shops now but have never given any tips via the prompt.

Leg,

Tipping from its inception was fucking weird. So weird that I’d say it was outright malicious. I’m sure many people are aware at this point that tipping was explicitly created to justify underpaying newly freed slaves, making the entire practice outright racist, Jim Crow era bullshit. The idea persisted so long that it became an uncomfortable and unwanted part of American culture, but at its core, it only exists to circumvent businesses paying a fair wage to its slaves. Greed is the motive, greed is the vibe.

Lamb,

There is no reason to tip waiters or delivery people. I don’t tip. I would maybe tip if I could tip people who make my food when it’s particularly good. Picking up an item, carrying it and placing near me isn’t a skill worth extra reward and it’s purely surrealistic to me why people act like it is.

I’m European though.

Cethin,

The issue is that in the US we’ve made it a part of their wage.

(Please note though that if you make below minimum wage after tips, your employer is obligated to make up the difference. Wage theft is the most common form of theft in the US. Don’t let yourself get robbed by your employer.)

rifugee,

Luckily, minimum wage in my state is $7.25/hr, so restaurants almost never have to cough up anything over the $2.13/hr they’re required to pay servers!

/s

Rakonat,

Theres already a delivery fee factored in, businesses trying to get people to tip more is them being greedy and trying to push customers into paying the employee wages for them. I don’t blame the workers asking for more, but I’m not gonna give a business that makes twice its expenses in profits more of my money so they can pay their people less

GreenMario,

Only delivery and restaurants that bring your food to you and bartenders get tips. That’s it. Fuck you subway I’m not tipping a sandwich artist. Fuck you Chinese buffet restaurant no tip I went and got up and got my own food.

Start being aggressive about it and I’ll go 100% Mr. pink and nobody gets tips ever.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/LdkmB2UnMXfTG/giphy.gif

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

and there’s no real consensus about how tipping should work.

Versus how is always worked before?

Because there is consensus on that, it was a very straightfor rule.

The tip was a private transaction between a customer and an employee who went above and beyond the service that the employees’ boss require them to do, to perform the job to the customer’s satisfaction.

It had nothing to do with the boss or the company they were working for (no tipping automation on the registers, etc.).

And it wasn’t ever used in lieu of the employee receiving enough of an income at the company they worked at.

vonbaronhans,

And it wasn’t ever used in lieu of the employee receiving enough of an income at the company they worked at.

Unfortunately that is not true. Restaurants in most states in the US have a law that allows employers to pay tipped employees a much lower wage (about 2 bucks an hour) with the expectation that tips will bring them back up to minimum wage or higher.

Cethin,

Important to add that they’re legally required to make up the difference if it comes in below minimum wage, though this is often skipped.

hglman,

Nor is minimum wage a viable income.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

I’m talking about the past, not the current situation.

Versus how is always worked before?

Because there is consensus on that, it was a very straightforward rule.

The vast majority of people had living wages back then.

theragu40,

The article is saying “before” as in “before the changes that happened because of COVID”. I don’t know when the inflection point was where we shifted to shit wages for traditionally tipped jobs, but it was many many years ago. When COVID hit we were not giving living wages to servers.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

The article is saying “before” as in “before the changes that happened because of COVID”.

During the height of the COVID-19 pandemic

But now that we are out about and back to normal, the custom of tipping for just about everything has somehow remained;

theragu40,

No. Tipping culture 100% existed before COVID. This isn’t an opinion. It’s well documented. You are either willfully ignorant or a troll. This discourse has run its course.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

This discourse has run its course.

“So shall it be written, so shall it be done.” /waveshandsabout

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Restaurants in most states in the US have a law that allows employers to pay tipped employees a much lower wage

You should check the year that those laws were implemented. They are a more recent phenomenon.

Also as it’s been mentioned by someone else already, those laws included clauses to make sure if the tips were below minimum wage the employees income earned would be raised to minimum wage.

And as an aside (as I’m sure somebody will mention this), I’m not saying that minimum wage is a living wage.

But that is a different subject than the one that’s being discussed here, the responsibility of customers to tip employees so that they may have a living wage, in lieu of employers paying employees a living wage directly.

littlecolt,

Pizza Hut box: The delivery fee is not a tip to the driver.

Me: Then why TF am I paying it?

Patches,

I can’t speak to Mega-Globo chains but

The delivery fee is supposed to cover the barest of $2/Gal gas, and $.2/mi car wear n tear.

Basically it meant if you didn’t make a single tip at all the entire night then you probably broke even on gas costs. That plus you $5-7/hr wages are you’re living on the Ritz.

littlecolt,

That makes sense if it’s a company car. I’ve never seen one.

GreenMario,

Pizza delivery corpos should be forced to supply their own vehicles. Stop forcing workers to use theirs.

PhlubbaDubba,

Gas and maintenance for the vehicle it was delivered in

Rivalarrival,

That vehicle is owned and operated by the driver. The driver does not receive that delivery fee.

bufordt,
@bufordt@sh.itjust.works avatar

I delivered pizza using my own car, and I was paid mileage. That’s partially what the delivery fee is supposed to be for.

PhlubbaDubba,

Not always, Pizza Hut and Dominos have designated vehicles even in remote areas.

Saw one way upstate in NY, like, multilingual signage upstate.

littlecolt,

Not how it is in my neck of the woods. It’s for sure the driver’s car at both of those.

rchive,

I don’t deliver pizzas, but anytime I drive my own car for work I get reimbursed a standard rate set by the US federal government, updated each year. If a pizza place did that, then the delivery fee would cover that cost.

hydrospanner,

If the federal government is reimbursing the pizza hut delivery driver then the fee still isn’t going to that cost. The American taxpayer is covering it

rchive,

The government doesn’t do the reimbursing, they just specify how much each mile is worth. I assume companies follow the government’s guidelines on that for tax reasons.

hubobes,

This shit started to pop up in Europe. I only tip when the service was above average. And a tip is 5 bucks on top of a 100 CHF meal.

Now they ask for tips at food trucks. Yes 0 is the appropriate tip for that.

PhlubbaDubba,

Hardly surprising it’d come to europe same time as the cost of living crisis.

Tvkan,

Tipping has been prevalent in many Europeam countries for decades, though the amount is usually less than in the US.

PhlubbaDubba,

Point probably still stands, the places in the US where service industry workers are the most openly hostile over any argument about tipping are places where the cost of living is the most out of pace with service worker incomes.

Wouldn’t be hard to imagine it’s similar across the pond.

nutsack,

it’s not your waiter’s fault that they’re stuck in a scam on the scale of a whole culture

marx2k,

My waiter probably prefers tipping culture because they make a hell of a lot more than they would otherwise. If not, it’s their fault they chose their job.

nutsack,

they might, but not every waiter gets rewarded with a “good shift”. the system is bad.

marx2k,

But not every shift is a bad shift. That’s why tipped staff wants to stay tipped staff.

If every shift is a bad shift, they should reconsider their job

Taringano,

Is it mine?

PhlubbaDubba,

It is of you decide they can starve over it.

When sustainable wage ain’t the minimum wage tipping ain’t a reward for good service, it’s the wage earner’s solidarity tax.

EurekaStockade,

It’s not the fault of the employer who’s underpaying them?

PhlubbaDubba,

It can be multiple people’s fault at once. You’re still the one stiffing them until the law makes their employers pay them fairly, don’t like it, don’t use the services.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Tipping is depending on the kindness of strangers. Don’t like it, don’t get a job that requires tips to survive.

PhlubbaDubba,

If you don’t want to tip then don’t ask for the service of tipped workers and get pissy that they ask for a crumb of solidarity while the fight for a living wage remains ongoing.

Don’t like tipping, go grocery shopping for your food and cook for your own selfish ass self.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Goes both ways. Don’t like it if a person decides not to tip, which is well within their rights? Get a different job rather than continuing to support an industry that’s exploiting your labor even more than most do.

PhlubbaDubba,

Nah, you’re the cheepo who doesn’t wanna pay the real price for the service they’re getting.

People like you are why “but it’ll raise prices!” is viewed as a main argument against living wages.

Fuckin’ cheapskate you are, when you catch something when the barista you short changed spits in your drink, remember how bravely and nobly you carried the cross of “fuck you gimme a free burger.”

samus12345, (edited )
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, the employers are the cheapos who want the customers to pay their employees’ wages. If an employee is such a raging asshole that they’d spit in a customer’s drink, they most certainly don’t deserve any kind of tip and at that point it’s extortion. “That’s a nice drink you have there…be a shame if someone spit in it.”

marx2k,

If you were trying to convince me that tipping is trash culture for petty, entitled dipshits, you’ve succeeded

Benj1B,

Dude. Get help.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

It is of you decide they can starve over it.

Wanting them to work somewhere with they are paid fairly does not equate to that you have no problem with them starving.

PhlubbaDubba,

It does when you don’t tip them.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

No, it doesn’t.

You can wish the best for them, and want them to have a happy and healthy life, and not tip them when they don’t do anything deserving of a tip.

PhlubbaDubba,

Deserve ain’t the metric when they’re being paid below a living wage.

You’re arguing they should provide five star service and suck your dick to “deserve” not needing to choose between heating and electricity that month.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Deserve ain’t the metric when they’re being paid below a living wage.

The two are not connected though either.

You’re arguing they should provide five star service and suck your dick to “deserve” not needing to choose between heating and electricity that month.

No, I’m not. Please don’t put words in my mouth, especially emotionally hyperbolic ones.

PhlubbaDubba,

Nah, when you’re saying you don’t have to tip in these times that’s exactly what you’re saying fuckin’ moocher.

CosmicCleric, (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, when you’re saying you don’t have to tip in these times that’s exactly what you’re saying

That’s not what I’m saying. Stop being emotionally hyperbolic and putting words in my mouth, its intellectually dishonest of you to do so, and loses any credibility for the point you are arguing for.

For the record, tip someone if they have earned it, or if you feel sorry for them as a form of charity, but not because you are obligated to do so. Let the company they work for pay them a living wage, its not the customers responsiblity to do so.

fuckin’ moocher.

So mature. Carry on, Internet Warrior.

SRo,

Cool cool cool - so we have the solution. After everyone who got bamboozled to work a job without compensation starved the tip crisis is over. Problem solved; just wait it out.

marx2k,

A waiter isn’t going to starve because I didn’t tip them.

gtfo with that solidarity tax bullshit lol

nutsack,

yea

Taringano,

Ah… My bad :(

Patches,

And whose fault is it at the Self-Checkout?

And the cashier at 7/11?

Osito,

I’ve never been asked for a tip on the PayPad at a 7/11

Davin,

In some states, like mine, someone working for tips is not getting paid minimum wage. So if you don’t tip the waiter, then they could be worse off than a cashier at 7-11 who makes minimum wage.

marx2k,

There is no state in the union where a tipped employee can make less than minimum wage

www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/…/subpart-D

Patches,

deleted_by_author

    •
    roguetrick,

    Employers must make up the difference if the employee makes less than the federal minimum wage if they don't make it with tips included is what they're saying.

    Davin,

    Ideally yes. There are laws, sure. However, in the real world, it doesn’t work that way. In my state, there is a different minimum wage for tipped workers. Back when it affected me personally, it was $2.85 when the minimum wage was $7.25. Now it’s like $10 and $14.

    And yes, if the tipped employee doesn’t meet a minimum wage then the employer is supposed to make that up. How often that happens though, I’ve never seen it. And what is an underpaid employee supposed to do? Sue a chain restaurant with all the money they don’t have? Get a pro bono lawyer willing to waste months of their time to help recover the difference of like $300?

    I get the altruism, and the simple satisfaction from pointing to laws to try to disprove a person who experienced things in real life. But at some point in your life, you should learn that the real world doesn’t work by pointing to a rule book and crying foul when someone breaks the rules.

    some_guy,

    It was understood if you take a bottle of water from the cooler and place it on the counter, the only extra was a thank you to the cashier.

    I’ve run into this and it’s bullshit. No.

    I wanted to know if it’s ever appropriate to walk away and not leave a tip?

    “No,” Sokolosky said.

    Also bullshit.

    ETA: And this was a stupid article that was poorly written. The interview subject also had little insight. This wouldn’t have been upvoted if the topic wasn’t viscerally felt by USA citizens because there was nothing said.

    postmateDumbass,

    UBI

    snoopfrog,

    There’s only one thing I still do that requires tipping, and that’s because I want to get tattoos. After I started seeing tipping screens at restaurants where I pick up my food at the counter, I stopped eating out entirely. I don’t even do fast food. I’m tired of trying to remember or decipher what is socially expected and am just done participating in that system. Just pay people a living wage, charge what you need to charge for that, and if you’re offering a worthwhile service, you’ll be fine.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Just pay people a living wage, charge what you need to charge for that, and if you’re offering a worthwhile service, you’ll be fine.

    Someone tell me the reason why this would get downloaded?

    dangblingus,

    This seems to be more of a United States issue rather than a Western issue. In Canada, we didn’t start tipping businesses all of a sudden that were never part of tipping culture. We always tipped delivery drivers, and servers, and bartenders, and hairstylists, and uber drivers. I’ve never seen a tip screen on a McDonalds or Wendys or Popeyes debit machine. I’ve never seen a tip screen on a retail debit machine. What the hell is going on in the US with tipping? What changed?

    Lamb,

    I’m in Europe. I’ve seen tipping pop up in random places in different countries. It’s most definitely not a US issue.

    EdanGrey,

    It’s even happening in the uk, although I’m not convinced anyone actually does tip on these screens

    Smoogs,

    Don’t lie. It’s happening in Canada too. And it starts at 18%. It’s the $99.98 of percentaging too so you just know someone who was in marketing school is behind the scenes thinking this shit up.

    UnspecificGravity,

    Like with every single thing that humans try to do to help each other, corporations have figured out how to exploit it for themselves.

    We feel like tipping helps people because literally handing money to someone SHOULD help them. Except what actually happens is that corporations, with the full support of the government that they own, simply use that social convention to offset the wages that they have to pay their staff.

    Leg,

    Reminder that tipping only exists because of racist and greedy motives, not because of people being nice. Sure, you could tip because you’re nice, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but we were told to tip from the beginning to keep blacks underpaid in their shitty service industry roles. Tipping started at the top, not the bottom.

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