Oh I guess I misunderstood You’re totally right 25 years seems absolutely fine for somebody to shoot a stranger for accidentally pulling in the driveway My bad. We really all should just shoot strangers when they pull in our driveway and be back out on the street and 25 years. Seems the right thing to do.
Oh I guess I misunderstood You’re totally right 25 years seems absolutely fine for somebody to shoot a stranger for accidentally pulling in the driveway My bad. We really all should just shoot strangers when they pull in our driveway and be back out on the street and 25 years. Seems the right thing to do.
I didn’t say that. I explained that the sentence he received, 25 to life, is the maximum allowed under New York State law. I have no interest whatsoever in defending things I did not say. So you can stop wasting your time, you aren’t going to goad me into defending a position I never claimed to hold just because you’re looking to argue with someone. We’re done here.
I’m sure this guy did fear for his life. I am sure he did feel like the safest thing he could do in that moment for himself was to fire directly into the unknown car.
And that’s why he doesn’t belong in our society. He is not welcome to participate given that the above is true, and we need to remove him until the end of time to ensure that no such thing can ever happen again.
I say that as a firearm owner and manufacturer. Anytime somebody asks me about my guns I explain to them how any 13-year-old could have done the same thing and how are gun laws are completely broken
You can be pro gun in pro regulation at the same time, fuck all these false dichotomies
In my experience, overly fearful people that get terrified over nothing are the primary audience for gun ownership. The mindset it takes to responsibly own and carry a gun is RARE.
I have 60+ year old relatives that suddenly all decided they wanted a gun, just because one of them bought one and won’t shut up about the confidence it gives her. She literally bought it just to walk to and from her car, which is parked directly in front of the business SHE owns, despite there being absolutely zero crime happening in her parking lot, and not bothering to set up security cameras. She literally bought a gun because she was afraid of a non-existent problem, and made no non-violent effort to correct the issue. I’m waiting for her to shoot some poor homeless person asking for change…
If owning a gun makes you confident, then you’re a scared little baby. Especially the guys with big trucks that drive like they’re trying to provoke people. I KNOW you have a gun. You bought the little dick pride set, so there’s no way you don’t have a gun. Quit trying to make excuses to pull it out. Pussies. FYI, I’m driving slow in front of you BECAUSE you’re driving like an ass hole and riding my bumper. Wave your gun at me again. I do not care.
Unfortunately, as you get older and closer to death, fear becomes a big factor in your life. This is the reaction you see from boomers. They can’t verbalize or even comprehend the fear of death, so it manifests in these bizarre behavioral patterns.
No, this is just boomers. They were exposed to lead their entire lives and emotional disregulation is one of the consequences. They were done dirty by their parent’s and grandparent’s generation.
You hang out with the wrong crowd. I’ve belonged to several gun clubs over the years, of the many hundreds of people I’ve gotten to know, I’ve met probably a dozen who fit the profile you describe. IMO the difference is socialization: if guns are a right but at the same time you make guns a taboo and actively discourage organized events and interest shooting sports, the people who do not go into it with a healthy mind and diverse social life end up dwelling on whatever someone feeds them for clicks and ad revenue (Fox News and similar shit, not even partisan just scary news gets clicks and trains fear into people). Shooting is fun if you do it right.
Answer this: how do you work on legislation to ensure responsible gun ownership with someone who detests any form of civilian gun ownership and absolutely refuses to learn the intricacies? How do you collaborate with someone who thinks themselves to be above understanding what they’re working on? Sensible things HAVE been proposed by people with a deep understanding of guns, but they get spit on because they’re something other than another ban on an inconsequential feature or function or type of something.
Edit to add: I cannot count the number of times I’ve given someone a chance and nearly every time the answer to “are you open to the possibility of your side being wrong about anything at all” is along the lines of me being the one who needs to be schooled by someone with zero firearms experience about why banning some specific things will solve mass shootings. On the other hand, I’ve taken many anti gun people shooting, and taught them some basics, and that changed a lot about how they viewed what they’d previously been told. Internet scholars will say this invalidates their ability to be objective and so their opinion no longer counts.
The evidence, that is total intolerance to the actual ideas and proposals by gun owners, and pushing for more of the same that didn’t work the first few times, shows that legislators actual objectives are total disarmament, not the safety and lives of good people.
Ah yes, the true test of what’s right: how many people’s preconceptions your words appeal to. Perhaps we should have have an AI stroke our egos instead of communicating with other humans.
It’s such a shame Americans brains are completely dysfunctional when it comes to guns. Despite literally overwhelming evidence that guns are a errible, terrible idea to be so easily accessible. Somehow what you you’d usually call a socially progressive person becomes more like a raving lunatic to most others outside of the USA when it comes to guns…
It’s honestly a fascinating phenomenon, it’s just really, really tragic.
Hanging out with the wrong crowd? It’s my family. And about half of them aren’t even Republicans. If anything, THEY hang out with the wrong crowd. And considering that you make guns such a large part of your identity, even making it a regular social interaction, I have a hard time believing that you’ll look at it from anyone else’s perspective. I especially doubt your ability to judge who should and shouldn’t have a gun, because you literally go to clubs full of people and judge their ability to responsibly own a gun off of their social skills, which for many people is a facade they create to seem normal. I doubt that the guy who’s excited to kill people is talking about it like that at club time. And my problem isn’t just intent. My problem with my family, specifically, is that they’re all a bunch of scared little bitches who are going to shoot at the first thing that scares their precious little baby asses. And I’ve met a shitload of fearful gun owners. I grew up in the South. Saying you’ve only met a dozen, means that you don’t pay attention, you excuse more than you should, or you’re just lying.
What makes you think it’s so central to my identity? (Granted I’ve got way more hobbies than most people, I’m sure it’s an innocent assumption.)
We might have different ways of judging people. I learned to judge character long before I ever touched my first gun (as an adult), and do not defer or equate a person’s identity to their character.
Yeah people lie, but in the orgs I belong to everyone has the keys and full access to nice facilities, and is treated like an adult - consider that a litmus test, or a baseline level of trust which is exceedingly rare to have someone break. You think fearful people just sign up to be on a “cold” range (unarmed) where someone else is running around with a loaded gun (e.g. USPSA), and submit fully to whoever’s running the range that day? Or join the club at the police or military range? There’s way more fear at the universities (and I live at one of the biggest right now).
Yeah I’m not in the south, only ever lived in big cities that are as blue as it gets.
Yeah. I want a gun. Specifically I’d love to have a bolt action rifle I can use as a long range hole punch on some papers and cans. And I can definitely afford it. I don’t have it because I don’t have the free disposable income for it, a secure and sturdy gun safe, and the space for it.
If I thought for a second that I needed a pistol to walk around town I shouldn’t have one. The only times I even consider owning a gun for conflict is when the proud boys occupy a nearby city that I do stuff in regularly. They’re holding semi automatic rifles and it may be valuable for a counter fascist militia to march against them. But I’m not a good shot and that’s expensive and I can’t go to prison.
Guns are not therapy. They aren’t Xanax or Wellbutrin or buspirone or anything else that will actually fix irrational fear. They are a device that exists solely to put a hole in something far away, and often they’re designed for that thing to be a living animal or person.
Minimum 25 years actually in a prison +/- some minor adjustments for behavior and then he’ll be eligible to request release on parole. But if parole isn’t granted there’s no upper limit on how long he can continue to spend in prison.
So not sure what your problem is…the person I was originally replying to thought 25 to life wasn’t an actual sentence in the US. I was correcting that misunderstanding originally.
Then you came in sideways and off topic about it being a justifiable sentence for his crime. I assumed you were commenting in good faith and were confused about my use of quotes around justice. So I responded to that. But if you’re just looking to be a jerk can you do it on like Facebook or something?
You said “justice” system, as if 25 to life wasn’t “just”. It is, and it’s easy to understand.
Pretty rude that you respond to a misunderstanding on an open forum by being toxic and trying to gatekeep the platform, as if only your view, understanding and discussion is above reproach.
A classic thing that happens on Lemmy is people focus on systemic issues when in a thread about a very specific part of a system. I was replying to the specific relationship between 25 to life, and “justice”.
You whiffed then lashed out but whatever,none of this matters.
I straightened out the “justice” misunderstanding before you came at me sideways about how you don’t like to shit? I don’t think 25 to life was unjust in his case and I didn’t think it was so you can pack up your “it’s easy to understand” toxicity and miss me with it. I was replying to someone who is likely not from the US or doesn’t understand our sentencing.
I lashed out? You started the sarcastic toxic trolling behavior with a comment that was unrelated to the conversation I was having with someone else, then continued it in a follow on comment when I tried to straighten out the misunderstanding…in what world did you not start the issue here? It’s not gatekeepers lemmy to ask you to take your toxic trolling behavior elsewhere.
If you’re a troll I do hope you go back to Facebook. If you somehow genuinely don’t think you’re a troll then I hope you develop the ability use basic insight to reflect on how you come off socially.
That pig (with18 previous brutality complaints, two convictions and a totat of ~$9M Minneapolis taxpayer money settlements) who murdered George Flloyd got 22 years.
Having a gun for self defense fucks with your head. When my wife and I lived in a relatively rural area, I used to keep a shotgun under our bed for protection, but I eventually got rid of it. Never shot it a single time, but you’d better believe every time I cleaned it or moved it or just remembered I had it, I was imagining the horrible situation I might be forced to use it in. That shit low key fucked me up. Strange sound in the middle of the night? Better grab the gun.
I can’t even begin to imagine carrying one on me, especially in public. I like to think I have a pretty level head, but some people are just waiting for you to look at them the wrong way so they finally have that moment. So frightened or psychotic or some combination of the two that their first instinct is to just start shooting. Hell, my wife’s cousin-in-law got in a fucking shootout when he cut someone off in traffic.
Used to be very pro responsible gun ownership, but lately I’m thinking that level of responsibility is far too rare in people.
I have an airsoft gun and it’s only after I shot my wife in the ass that I considered the considerable weight of responsibility that such a weapon imposes on a man.
When I was a kid this guy released a movie like every week. And every time we’d go to a Jacky Chan movie, I’d walk out of that theater thinking I was the king of fuck mountain, that somebody aught to just TRY and fuck with me.
I was not the only one. I don’t know who it was, but I saw a comedian on comedy Central echo that exact same feeling, which seemed to resonate with the audience, so I know it’s not unique. You feel powerful just being in the presence of such a thing.
There’s a whole book series about the presence of powerful things being a corrupting presence. They’re pretty good. Turned in to movies and everything.
Don’t make the classic mistake of thinking everyone is limited to your abilities, there are other people in this world with their own thoughts and feelings that may not line up with yours and projecting your thoughts onto them is simply not a good basis for anything.
Well with the second amendment being interpreted as it is by the supreme court, that doesn’t seem like it could currently stand unfortunately. We do however require it for concealed carry permits in most states though, so at least that is something. We could also normalize gun shops give a basic multiple choice test before sales even without mandating it legally, as shops have the right to refuse sale to anyone if they seem sketchy (and often do refuse sales, but not often enough.)
Frankly I go a step further, we should make actors who don’t own guns but use real guns as props in movies should also be subject to learn at least Cooper’s 4 rules, like they do at most indoor shooting ranges on your first visit.
I am the same person as you except I actually carried around my gun. Being an stupid 21 year old with a gun sounds so stupid back then. I’m glad nobody died because of me.
I want some sort of driving test for guns. If you fail it, no guns for you. Have to retake it every 5-10 years and it’s pretty easy to pass if you aren’t a moron.
I’ve seen literally the dumbest shit on ranges. People flagging one another. Accidental discharges a few feet from one’s foot, flagrantly breaking the range rules while the range instructor literally just finished explaining the rules to everyone there.
Christ, one time (in a rural state) someone didn’t want to give up their CC to run a combat-style range. It was for safety, in case they ate shit on the course. They said they needed their CC in case there was a “terrorist attack”. I looked around the bumfuck, empty desert we were in and wondered where the terrorists would even come from, lmao.
This seems to work for the Swiss. Heck they have a shooting range that fires over a freeway, and any incident involving firearms makes national if not global news.
I want some sort of driving test for guns. If you fail it, no guns for you. Have to retake it every 5-10 years and it’s pretty easy to pass if you aren’t a moron.
So basically a CCW permit for carrying. Problem though with “uneducated or undereducated people shouldn’t have guns,” while I agree in principle, is that it’ll play out affecting poor and marginalized communities which are mostly POC more than say some white people who simply had more privileges growing up.
Again, in principle I agree, I just don’t trust our legal system not to turn it into racism like they do with everything else.
I agree with you on everything except that that’s what a CCW permit is. I’m sure in some states it’s that. In other states it’s closer to the test you take to get your temporary drivers permit as a kid.
It does depend on the state, and in some there’s even no permit, but in most that have them they do instruct about basic safety and use of force laws. That is however relegated to the state to form their own policy, and changes all the time. If you feel your state should do more it’s easier to work on that then federal, so it’s probably more effective this way tbh.
Honestly there isn’t much to gun safety, either, it isn’t actually all that hard and doesn’t really take too long to learn. The hard part is making sure people adhere to it at all times, which tbh is functionally impossible beyond “if you see someone being unsafe, say something” which is common to do amongst gun owners, but doesn’t prevent everything. Accidents can happen at any experience level, it’s also a common saying amongst experienced gun handlers/owners that “complacency kills,” and it does, it’s something you have to be ever thoughtful of while handling one (not always while carrying, I mean, but while it is out of the holster for any reason. Be it defense, range unloading/cleaning, leaving it in the car because of a no gun sign, etc.)
Also, just as a sidenote, something you can test for yourself: Go to any pro gun forum, say r/firearms or whatever, or c/leftistgunowners here, any one, and make a post saying something along the lines of “Hey I’ve decided it’s time to pick up my first gun, any advice?” I guarantee you many posts will say “welcome to the club,” many more will say “buy you a glock” and almost all of them will say “but it isn’t enough just to get it and put it under your bed, learn how to be safe and learn how to use it at the range. Last thing you want is to kill someone innocent or die fumbling with it because you never learned how.” It isn’t a legal requirement, and of course you could just waltz into a gunshop and avoid most of that, though they will also offer advice most often if they know it’s your first, but at least the culture at large generally is pretty safety conscious already without it being mandated, so at least that’s something.
Hard agree on the gun safety test. Buying a gun, especially in the US, is way too easy and the number of people walking around strapped with absolutely no knowledge of gun safety, let alone armed self defense training, is terrifying.
My wife’s family leans very hard into the guns, god and Trump right wing. My father in law set up a shooting range on his property, and it’s a tradition for the cousins to get together and show off their arsenal. I keep a pistol there because it’s a hellava range gun and the 22LR rounds are dirt cheap, but you can imagine the shit I catch in a family where 9mm is considered a “pussy round”.
The amount of stupid shit I’ve seen on this range would boggle your mind, and I feel a deep responsibility to make sure nobody dies while I’m there. I’ve seen people walk in front of the range with earmuffs on while someone was getting ready to shoot. I had to stop my father in law from breaking his thumb trying to shoot a Glock with his thumb resting right on the slide. I watched my uncle-in-law (a Republican state senator, mind you) hand a loaded AR-15 to his ten year old son, then just walk away.
You know I think that’s actually the intelligence and responsibility I expect from republican state senators. I bet he screams about how responsible gun owners shouldn’t be prevented from ownership just because of irresponsible gun owners
Fearing getting shot for pulling in a driveway seems an almost alien concept.
I’ve lived in the city, and way out on a dead-end country road and it’s never once passed my mind anyone could get shot for that.
Being the last house… people would turn around here regularly.
No one ever thought about shooting them, like wtf.
Although, for the ones who zoomed by at speed oblivious that the road was being into fieldsand whatnot, we did take bets on how long they would take to come back on foot after sticking their car in a ditch or something.
Anyone who thinks about shooting someone coming into their driveway is a fucking sociopath.
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