I’m surprised too. That said, I wish Christie Hefner’s plan for making a separate issue without the girls came to fruition. Playboy has always had excellent interviews and fiction. People like Margaret Atwood and Kurt Vonnegut wrote for Playboy. I have a Playboy anthology of science fiction and it’s terrific.
Unfortunately, Playboy is usually just looked at as a lurid skin rag.
"If you can look at the situation and not be on the side of Palestinians, then you are on the wrong side of apartheid and history will show that in time,"
This post on her part was fine, but the other one...not so much. She should have stuck with this one only, rather than whatever the frick murderous thing that other post was.
Can someone please tell the freedom fighters in Palestine to flip their phones and film horizontal," she wrote on the platform on Saturday.
That’s all. If you’re very inattentive or deliberately misinterpreting her words, you’d think that she was endorsing Hamas as “freedom fighters”.
But if you DO pay attention and know anything, you’ll notice that she never mentions Hamas and know that Hamas aren’t usually the ones filming any of their atrocities. Add her clarification from a few days later and it’s clear that she did NOT endorse Hamas and is the victim of character assassination because she had the temerity to speak up against the apartheid regime:
I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence," she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.
Yeah I’M the stupid one, not the arrogant shit for brains whose sole contribution is to do a less intelligent version of Nelson Muntz at people who actually base their arguments on real world context coupled with reading the actual words rather than imagining completely different ones 🙄
Nope. I’m merely refraining from assuming without evidence that she’s endorsing terrorism.
You don’t have to be “some kind of top geopolitical expert” to know that Hamas don’t tend to film their atrocities themselves and that oppressed Palestinians very often film the atrocities of the Israeli occupation forces.
If there’s any mental gymnastics here, it’s in confusing common knowledge for elite geopolitical expertise.
I think you don’t realise how little knowledge “common knowledge” actually is. Peolple on lemmee arent you’re average joe when it comes to geopolitical knowledge. I am not dismissing her knowledge eitherx but i believe you are overestimating it.
Yeah because a Lebanese-American public figure who sympathises with the plight of Palestine has NEVER had to answer bad faith arguments equating Hamas with all Palestinians and would thus have NO need for more knowledge about the methods of them than your average inattentive and incurious casual ingester of pro-regime billionaire-owned American news! 🙄
Hamas don’t tend to film their own atrocities and they’re not the only ones committing atrocities.
Israel is also committing atrocities and the oppressed citizens of Palestine are filming a lot of it. THAT’S the footage she asked to be recorded in landscape rather than portrait.
Perhaps still not in the best taste for a public platform, but it’s a damn sight better than endorsing terrorism like this article and others are incorrectly claiming.
You’re seriously asking why regular unarmed people are documenting human rights abuses rather than physically attack heavily armed soldiers who are in the middle of demonstrating how little Palestinian lives matter to them? Is that what you’re actually asking?
Also, who says it was said in the context of the latest Hamas atrocity? Judging by the actual words and sentences, it would seem much more likely to be in response to bad video of the retaliatory atrocities of the Israeli oppressors.
Seems like you’re very eager to tar and feather her for speaking up against your favorite ethnostate.
Why don’t “freedom fighters” don’t “fight” the atrocities rather than film them?
those regular civilians should hit the missiles with baseball bats, that’ll show 'em. Much more effective than filming the atrocities being inflicted upon them and spreading the word online!
In the largest apartheid concentration camp on earth, the civilian prisoners who document and expose their oppressors to the world are fighting for their freedom
There are other kinds of fighting than violence on a grand scale. Regular Palestinians are fighting the apartheid regime in ways big and small every day.
Yeah, I have this odd quirk of downvoting sealions when they ask bad faith questions with obvious answers that they refuse to accept. I’m kooky like that!
A good faith question is when you’re honestly seeking clarification either because you don’t know something or don’t know what the other person means.
Sealioning is when you’re “just asking questions” in a manipulative manner with no intention of taking the answers seriously under consideration or making a valid point of your own.
It’s often used in place of an actual argument when the sea lion knows that their point isn’t strong enough to withstand scrutiny.
The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade is the militant wing of Fatah, the al-Quds Brigades are the militant wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the DFLP is also active as the Martyr Omar Al-Qasim Forces.
What does being Jewish have to do with Israel? Are you conflating the two? Blaming Jews for what Israel has been doing for decades is pretty anti-semetic.
No it’s just that Jews have gotten prickly about anyone criticizing Israel because of how much trouble anti-zionism has had banishing anti-semitism from trying to infiltrate.
It’s only changed because the Neonazis have absorbed enough evangelicals to decide they like the jews having Israel now because battle of Armageddon and “I know revelations says it is impossible to know when the rapture will happen but I’m gonna try and make it happen anyways like an absolute dumbass!”
That’s the problem with a lot of the pro Palestine movement, they just can’t help themselves and can’t just stop at demanding rights, but wanting the rights of others removed as well. Western nations just aren’t going up empathize with you if you’re murdering and parading women’s corpses around, or if you’re threatening to kill hostages, many of which are children. As much as you may not like it, there’s a difference optically between dropping a bomb and putting a gun to a child’s head and pulling the trigger cause you didn’t get your way.
Keep in mind she was a Lebanese refugee that lived through the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. I’m not condoning anything she said but she has a somewhat understandable view of the whole situation.
Hamas committed atrocities and Israel has responded with atrocities. That doesn’t make calling Hamas “freedom fighters” in this context any less deplorable.
I don’t think she was refering to Hamas as freedom fighters. Everybody was just eager to put it in her mouth (eh).
Answering your question, yes, we can condemn them both. But in different ways.
Israel “created” Hamas. You can only push a people so far. The oppression and humiliation, generation after generation is bound to create extreme hate. And that’s how shit like Hamas sprouts. Israel has been breeding that hate for decades.
But…Hamas actions are still their own. I can live in a world with Israel if Israel changes. But Hamas has to go. But something else will appear if Israel keeps pushing on the Palestinians. Hamas is a symptom.
The cycle of violence has to be broken. And the one that has the upper hand has to do it to be effective. The 2 state solution is dead. It’s ironic that these 2 peoples can’t live with each other but at the same time they need each other.
Palestine is too fractured to thrive without Israel. Israel, while it might not seem so, needs to make good with Palestine to consolidate its place in the region. Without that peace Israel is doomed on the long term. When the chips are down and the US is not there to help they will find themselves completely isolated surrounded by hostile countries. And that Israel cannot survive.
Did she actually do so? From whats posted here she made a poor taste joke criticizing their filming. While perhaps bad judgment, that alone isn't remotely supporting anything.
Maybe the hill you die on shouldn’t be murdering and executing innocent civilians there chief. Just a little tip for not being a complete piece of shit.
I mean you opened your mouth wide enough for your foot with that one. I don’t know what you expected to happen when commenting about a geopolitical situation that’s grown a gravity so large it’s collapsed in on itself to the point that because your comment doesn’t specify a side it can be validly used by someone on either side of the debate.
What they’re referring to deserves to be talked about and brought up as it is demonstrably intrinsic to a conversation concerning Israel-Palestine relations.
Had they brought up literally any other country it would be what-aboutism. You can’t just throw that term around every time someone issues a counterpoint that you don’t feel is valid.
Unless you are going back to the war with the Romans, the Jews were not a persecuted minority in that region any more than any other minority, which would include the Arabs themselves seeing as they were controlled by the Ottomans for hundreds of years previous. The Jews were tolerated, and there was a very small religious community living in Jerusalem during the hundreds of years of Ottoman control that got along perfectly fine. The greater diaspora, especially in Eastern Europe through the 18th and 19th centuries was, however, constantly persecuted and were victims of numerous pogroms.
The Zionist movement was a reaction to the fact that European countries could not be trusted. It was a common cycle that the Jews would make a living for themselves, beginning to think that they could finally establish a home but then get attacked, scapegoated, and forced to flee. It was the Eastern European Jews fleeing such pogroms who would make up the majority of the first settlers of the Zionist mission in Palestine.
All this is simply to say that when people claim “oh they’ve been fighting there for thousands of years” and “the Jews were being persecuted there for so long” is not accurate. There really has not been a Jewish presence in the region since the Jewish revolt was put down by the Romans 2,000 years ago. While the current conflict is decades old, it is entirely related to the circumstances around the founding of Israel.
This is not entirely accurate. For most of history Jews were tolerated in the region, but even then they were systematically discriminated against through the legal system that would for instance not allow a Jew to testify against a Muslim in court or subject jews and other minorities to taxes not levied on Muslims.
By the late 19th and early 20th century the Muslim world began engaging in the same sort of anti-semitism and pogroms that had mostly been limited to Europe prior. This did largely have its roots in the European influence on Middle Eastern nations but nevertheless the rise in anti-semitism(for lack of a better word since most parties are semitic) in the middle east predated the formation of Isreal in 1948.
It is certainly true that this discrimination was less than they faced in Europe for most of the history of the middle east, but being better than that is a very low bar.
You know there were a lot of folks who happened to be in New York City on September 11th, 2001, who happened to get the business end of some retaliation for the shitty things our country did during the Cold War. More so, a lot of them (if not all of them) distinctly didn't have any direct connection to the thing that was being retaliated for.
So do we get to take the innocent card from those folks who died that day? No? So curious as to the special circumstances that applies to the folks who are tired of Hamas' shit in the Gaza Strip but can't leave because Israel won't let them and they can't get rid of Hamas because they'll just kill them. What's the special case that means those people who are tired of this conflict don't matter or aren't worthy of being called oppressed?
And thus the circle is complete and peace unattainable.
You should perhaps remember that a few, very few, had a part in the terrorist attack and the terrorists have claimed to have done the crime for the exact same grievance in the other direction. If you pay attention you may discover that punishing those involved shall offend no one, where as blowing the fuck out of innocent People's homes in no way helps and is assured to get lots of condemnation.
Peace was never the goal to begin with. Violence begets violence. If they really wanted peace they should have negotiated and used politics and all kinds of different ways than killing people.
Yes, Israel would have had they wanted peace and security. Hamas, as a terrorist organization, has no such ability even if there were will to do so. Powers that Be want this on both sides.
Uhh, dude? Hamas is just a terrorist organization. They murdered a bunch of babies by cutting off their heads. You can support Palestine and oppose Israel’s settlements without carrying water for a group that does shit like that.
Lemmy automatically marks comments from mods as mod comments. This isn’t Reddit. I’m not talking as a mod, I’m just talking as me.
But it’s not IDF propaganda. It’s been confirmed by dozens of news outlets now. It happened. Stop carrying water for people who would do that. Hamas isn’t Palestine.
The only source of that "beheaded a bunch of babies" claim seems to be a "news" site called I24... A site that is mostly truthful when not talking about Israel and Palestine, but has flat out invented stories that push their pro-Isreal narrative,
Every other mention of the story so far seems to point back to that one site.
You’re kidding, right? So IDF soldiers who were interviewed as they were moving bodies out of the kibbutz were just lying?
Don’t do this. Don’t carry water for barbaric, inhuman acts like this. You can support Palestine’s freedom without condoning the beheading of children or trying to convince yourself it didn’t happen. Too many independent reports have corroborated it now. The BBC interviewed individual soldiers who had to deal with the insanity afterwards, and they’ll be scarred for the rest of their lives by what they’ve seen. Don’t belittle it.
And don’t belittle the Palestinian quest for freedom by defending monstrosity done in their name. Hamas isn’t Palestine.
Dude the IDF lies all the time, about everything. Those hot Israeli soldiers? Paid models. That journalist Hamas killed last year? IDF. It’s foolish to take them at face value.
Personally I would like it corroborated with bonafide evidence rather than word of mouth of a belligerent party. I’m skeptical, but only for the above. I imagine if there is truth to this that a human rights watch dog will seek the same proof.
But with that said, I didn’t need a report like that to condemn Hamas for this renewed conflict in the first place. This does absolutely nothing to help the Palestinians and absolutely everything to hurt them. Every way you slice this you just end up with senseless tragedy and loss of life on every side.
I just heard an interview with an Israeli who saw it firsthand, the interview was on CBS news. I think that’s a respectable enough organization to assume it’s true until proven otherwise by watchdogs.
At least they don’t tend to go around taking hostages and raping them. Honestly I was almost supportive of Hamas in this, before finding out that they’re behaving even worse than the animals they claim to be fighting. I think you loose all legitimacy when you go out of your way to cause unneeded harm
The beheading specifically are BS, it came from an Israeli-US propaganda channel where they repeated a lie from an IDF soldier. All the news outlets have used the same source, incredibly irresponsibly.
Consider the following fictional situation:
A news story comes out detailing a terrible tragedy where some people were stuck in a collapsed mine for months and that they had to eat one of their dead to survive. A horrible situation by all accounts. One of the miners is later interviewed and they mention how bad it was to have to eat someone. Someone then posts online saying this: “Next time it won’t taste so bad if you add some salt and pepper.”
Is the person who made the post condoning cannibalism? Of course not. Was the comment in poor taste? Absolutely. (Pun not intended)
“I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence,” she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.
I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence," she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.
Hamas as an organization doesn’t represent the Palestine people as whole, and an individual Hamas fighter even less so.
While your typical Palestine farmer might not be too fond of all the killing and murdering done by Hamas terrorists, atleast they’re killing and murdering the people they perceive to be most at fault for the situation they’re living in. Nobody can say, with a straight face, that there’s not atleast a kernel of truth behind that belief.
Still - indiscriminately killing innocent civilians is not the way.
In Gaza yeah. Not on the west bank which is the bulk of Palestine. If I remember correctly those elections were like 17 years ago and they got around 45% of the vote
Oh! I heard they were democratically elected, I guess I just assumed it was part of a functioning democracy. No elections for seventeen years isn’t a functioning democracy though.
The problem with "taking in" the Palestinians, is that it actively helps Israel's ethnic cleansing efforts and theft of land/property. Israel has stolen peoples homes, land, and livelihoods, and has been doing such since 1947.
You have to be careful with that sort of thing. Also, there are a fuckload of Palestinians, Most countries are not setup to absorb millions of extra citizens.
Even so, a lot of Palestinians have left the country over the decades, and have ended up in those same Arab nations you claim won't take them. The Arab nations just can't take millions at once.
We have the technology to make a hologram of God, or to perform a fake miracle of some kind.
Make a fake miracle happen in Israel/Gaza where lots of Israelis and Palestinians can see it.
Get a bunch of Palestinians and Israelis to convert to a new peaceful religion where the only way to go to heaven is to treat everyone like you would treat your family, with love and respect. It would have to be a straightforward religion without all the mumbo jumbo left up for interpretation.
Gaza is extremely over populated and is inhabitated almost exclusively by Palestinians. Taking some of them (those who want) would not contribute to cleansing in any meaningful way. The truth is that Muslim countries don’t really care about the Palestinians other than using them as a political tool.
There are living 2 million people in gaza. Germany has currently 1 million Ukrainian refugees and poland also another million. So it is not like it would be impossible for the arab countries to absorb them.
I’m with you though when it comes to your point that they do not want to give up their presence as a thorn in Israel’s expansion. They (the Muslim Arab world) would never again gain a better bargain against Israel. Giving them the land would be a victory for Israel that would hang like a shadow over their history for centuries - or so they see it. The Arab world can (from a religious standpoint) never accept the jewish nation invading their sphere. If it were not for Israel, the Middle East would have formed a strong combined player in the geopolitical game. For some moments in the early 1900s it almost looked like syria were able to unite the Arab world to transform it into a single voice sitting in between asia and Europe. But external forces and internal ethnic differences and in the end the Israel state made it permanently impossible for the region to unite. The fallout is what we see today. If it were not for the religious aspect and the Arab world would have given Israel „its land“, it might would have even started relations with each others by now in economy and technology, being a vital partner in developing the Middle East. But both the arab world and Israel are the religious bigots that they are and that is hindering the evolutionary development in their own interest.
I I think the west knew how much the Arab world would chew on this for the next century when they bid to put Israel in that area. The power move by the Arab world would have been to accept it and create political relations with it to profit from this strong economic player. But some in the west knew that this would be impossible for them because of their deeply religious rooted society. It will keep the Middle East out of the game for another better half of half century. To profit from Israel would mean for the Arab world to transform their nations from a theocracy to a modern national state, where not religious doctrines are used to narrate to their people for control. But the people in power need the theocratic narration to stay in power. A strong Middle East would have been a United Middle East (Syria 1900s), where a national state is put above the theocratic narration to keep control of the people while benefiting hugely from trade and technology as religious differences is not hindering talks with one another anymore (Inside and outside). Israel would have never happen to a United Middle East and now they can never change because the differences is absorbed into their theocratic narration. They are locked into a limbo of not being able to progress - all because Israel.
Yeah it is weird that your link is not providing any information about why they did it. I would say the Wikipedia has a better text about it, while also not going to deep:
Your first have to understand the territorial occupations at the time of 1946 and who was invested in the region. After the ottoman empire fell Britain gained foot in the area of palestine around 1919. It was only possible by a coalition with the Arab neighbors in the region that were more fond of the british than the ottoman disarray.
After WW2, Britain had a big interest in keeping this area in control and not further develop conflicts in the area by the refugee of jewish people coming from the european camps, that would clash with the coalition partners from the arab countries in the region. The efforts made to create a jewish state was mostly driven by the US, and not britain:
In 1947, the UN adopted a partition plan for a two-state solution in the remaining territory of the mandate. The plan was accepted by the Jewish leadership but rejected by the Arab leaders, and Britain refused to implement the plan. On the eve of final British withdrawal, the Jewish Agency for Israel, headed by David Ben-Gurion, declared the establishment of the State of Israel according to the proposed UN plan.
You can see how britain lost control of the whole region the moment they gave in. Up until this moment they were still hoping to keep the jews out and keep the control of the country. That is the reason they blocked the Exodus. There is also a good take on the SS Exodus Article on britains stance until the caved into the UN Mandate:
Britain’s position was summed up by John Coulson, a diplomat at the British Embassy in Paris, in a message to the Foreign Office in London in August 1947: “You will realize that an announcement of decision to send immigrants back to Germany will produce violent hostile outburst in the press. … Our opponents in France, and I dare say in other countries, have made great play with the fact that these immigrants were being kept behind barbed wire, in concentration camps and guarded by Germans.”[56] Coulson advised that Britain apply as best they could a counter-spin to the story: “If we decide it is convenient not to keep them in camps any longer, I suggest that we should make some play that we are releasing them from all restraint of this kind in accordance with their wishes and that they were only put in such accommodation for the preliminary necessities of screening and maintenance.”[57] The mission of bringing the Jewish refugees of Exodus 1947 back to Germany was known in diplomatic and military circles as “Operation Oasis.”[55]
Look at what’s happened to the counties that did see influxes of Palestinians in the last century. Everytime it’s ended up with them kicking off more conflict in their host nations. Even the small disporia in the western world couldn’t help themselves but go out and celebrate these attacks and make antisemitic spectacles themselves. Why would anyone want them?
“She must be executed.” “But you beat your meat to her videos all the time.”
“That is a sacrifice I am wiling to make.” “Wisely said, brave martyr. Glory be to Allah.”
“Glory be.”
lol I have no skin in the game, being atheist and not jew, and not from US neither
If you believe that announcing “I support Palestine!!” right after Hamas fuckers killed a thousand of civilians would be a great idea, you are delusional
Before this happened, violenc between settlers in the Westbank and native Palestinians had tripled compared to 2022, to 3 per day, while the world news cycles were preoccupied with Ukraine.
Are you talking about settlers that have for decades stolen the Palestinians ancestral homes? Kicked them out of the house they were born in without any compensation. If that happened to me in my home I would too go radical cause at that point diplomacy has failed.
Ironic that you would talk about zero sense of context when siding with the people ignoring crucial context.
Mia Khalifa was NOT talking about terrorists. She was talking about the oppressed people of Palestine who film the atrocities of the Israeli apartheid government. She didn’t mention Hamas and since they’re not usually the ones filming THEIR atrocities, it’s clear that she wasn’t referring to them either. Especially when you add her own clarification to the equation:
I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence," she said. “I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.”
Yeah, it was worded imprecisely enough to make misinterpretation possible, which is always a bad move when discussing contentious issues no matter your intention.
Definitely wasn’t bad enough that she deserved being immediately fired, cancelled and defamed as a terrorism sympathiser, though.
Yeah I’ll agree with that. It was exceptionally poor wording and it comes down to the benefit of the doubt if you believe she worded it poorly vs … yeah. But the deserves the benefit of the doubt.
It was a very poor choice of wording to say freedom fighters to refer to civilians. It was just as poor to mention videos without any information whatsoever on the contents of the videos. Perhaps this is one giant misunderstanding.
Either way, a statement referring to a video from freedom fighters in the region right now without any context immediately brings to mind the carnage from the terrorist attack.
She could have just started with “My heart goes to Israeli victims” or stuff like that, before tagging “Free Palestine” at the end. That would fly without a hurdle.
So she’s not allowed to express solidarity with the Palestinian victims of Israeli oppression without also mentioning the Israeli victims of Hamas terrorism?
Are people not allowed to express solidarity with Israeli victims without also mentioning Palestinian victims either?
Massacring hundreds of people at a music festival isn’t fighting for liberation. Quite the contrary. Apart from in itself being an unforgivable atrocity, it’s just the excuse the IDF occupying force needed to give up any pretense of restraint when massacring innocent Palestinians. https://lemmy.wtf/pictrs/image/36d890f0-1e91-47a3-bf6e-b42fb122d496.webp
And how exactly should they prevent more colonizers and settlers from coming in the future? Asking them nicely? If you could cause damage to Israel in a more “moral way” then why aren’t you over there doing so?
If there’s been any constant in the conflict it is that every time Hamas or other terrorists pretending to be protectors of Palestine attack, the IDF kills more Palestinians and exactly zero freedom from oppression is achieved.
You seriously think that BDS alone with destroy the Zionists? It’s useful but a very minor part of the struggle. Terrorist? Where did you hear that? Fox News?
Apart from being inherently heinous, violence begets violence, especially when one party has the second most advanced military in the world, the unlimited support of the most advanced military in the world and a fascist government with no compunctions against genocide.
Since you seem utterly unable to understand something so obvious, we’re done here.
Most advanced military in the world? The Zionists are so fucking weak. They are unable to do anything. But oh no, you know so much about it. Way more than people actually involved. You definitely ought to give them advice
I know perfectly well what terrorism is and massacring hundreds of innocent civilians at a musical festival definitely qualifies regardless of how inhumane the apartheid regime is.
Calling terrorism terrorism isn’t a right wing talking point. Unlike literally any right wing person in theWest, I’m a pacifist and appalled at the oppressive apartheid regime. That I know from decades of observation that terrorism won’t work to achieve independence doesn’t mean that I oppose independence.
Are you a bad troll or a colossal idiot? Because those are literally the only options possible with the amount of irrational bullshit you keep spouting.
Fuck off with that bullshit. Was the nonviolence of Martin Luther King conservative? Did it help the status quo? What about Gandhi? Definitely a big “let’s change nothing, I’m fine with this” guy 🙄
You’re just making up excuses for being a bloodthirsty maniac who loves murder.
It might be a fact that many people see it that way, but that would just mean that many people are wrong. Many people believe all sorts of ridiculous lies and distortions of reality.
I have laid out compelling arguments based on the real world context of what’s happening, what her words are most likely to mean given that context, even explained which part was misunderstood and what the most rational explanation for that was.
I’ve done part or all of that at least a handful of times in replies throughout the comments of this post. I have also conceded that it might have been an ill-advised way of saying things because a public figure being less than 100% clear about a statement regarding anything contentious can and most often WILL open the door to misinterpretations, whether honest or wilfully manipulative.
That’s as close to “you are wrong, I am right” as a fiberglass canoe is to a shoddily made origami boat.
This smells really fishy. They quote her directly when it comes to her taking the side of Palestinians in general (aka, the oppressed population) but when it comes to her supposed support of Hamas in particular, all there is in the article is a paraphrase of THEIR version, not a direct quote.
And what bullshit would that be? Anything that would be a fireable offense?
That’s not rhetorical or sealioning btw. I’m genuinely asking since I’m not familiar with her at all other than clears throat some of her early work several years ago…
I don’t know so I won’t speak to that, and no judgement of right or wrong here, but this is the US. Anything is or can be a fireable offense so long as it’s not one of a few specific protected things. In almost every state. So making a post on social media pretty much regardless of content can be a fireable offense if the company deems it so.
Just because it’s technically allowed doesn’t mean it’s not reprehensible treatment of a mostly blameless person, though. I’m not sure it even IS technically allowed, actually. She might have a good libel and wrongful termination/breach of contract case…
As I said, no judgement from me one way or another. Also we have no way of knowing what kind of contract she had or whether there was some kind of morality clause. Maybe this violated it. Maybe not.
All I was saying was that, whether right or wrong, employment can be terminated pretty much anywhere in the United States for any reason as long as it’s not a protected thing, which this almost certainly is not. So saying something is or isn’t a fireable offense probably needs some context. Because anything could be a fireable offense if the company thinks it is.
Not true. They post hate speech from right wing politicians verbatim all the time.
As for the tweets being somewhere else, it seems that it’s this:
Can someone please tell the freedom fighters in Palestine to flip their phones and film horizontal
To the inattentive and/or wilfully misinterpreting, that might come off as an endorsement of Hamas as “freedom fighters”, but note that she doesn’t mention Hamas by name and that Hamas aren’t usually the ones filming any of their atrocities.
Add her clarification from a few days later and it’s clear she’s talking about regular people filming the atrocities of the Israeli oppressors and isn’t referring to terrorism at all, unless you define it broadly enough to include the Israeli state terrorism:
I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence," she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day
As I suspected, she didn’t do what they said she did. She just had the temerity to speak up against the apartheid regime.
I tried to read all her Tweets despite not having a Twitter account and yes, none of them mention Hamas or support Hamas. She’s just telling people to tear down the wall.
Apparently, that’s only okay in Berlin and other places. Clearly tearing down the siege wall surrounding Gaza or the apartheid wall that has plagued Palestinians and ruined their agricultural lands for years and years is a big no-no.
apartheid wall that has plagued Palestinians and ruined their agricultural lands for years and years is a big no-no.
Not to mention thousands being forced to go through military checkpoints to reach the nearest schools and hospitals, if they’re lucky enough to even be allowed to pass.
Actually, it turned out that the article DOES directly quote what she was cancelled for. It was just that the article made it sound like she’d declared her undying loyalty to Hamas when in actual fact she hadn’t even mentioned them. I’m just gonna copy a comment of mine from earlier today explaining the whole thing:
Can someone please tell the freedom fighters in Palestine to flip their phones and film horizontal," she wrote on the platform on Saturday.
That’s all. If you’re very inattentive or deliberately misinterpreting her words, you’d think that she was endorsing Hamas as “freedom fighters”.
But if you DO pay attention and know anything, you’ll notice that she never mentions Hamas and know that Hamas aren’t usually the ones filming any of their atrocities. Add her clarification from a few days later and it’s clear that she did NOT endorse Hamas and is the victim of character assassination because she had the temerity to speak up against the apartheid regime:
I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence," she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.
What a shit article. All she did was support the Palestinian cause and now they’re putting shit in her mouth (no pun intended).
I don’t like how the narrative is being forced in this conflict. They are clearing the way for something very sinister. We’re about to witness a western sanctioned genocide. There’s no way Israel is letting this opportunity go.
Something is going to happen soon in the West Bank too, I call it.
There’s a difference between just looking the other way and actively endorsing it.
The West is 100% backing Israel and they’re not letting this chance go. Palestininans are going to be killed and deported, including Israeli Arabs. I call it. Something will happen in the West Bank soon or even in Israel itself and then Israel will come up with its own “final solution”. We’ll definitely see mass expulsions. The propaganda machine is already clearing the road ahead.
And when we see what we were actually endorsing we’ll try to take back our support but it’ll be too late. Their blood will be in our hands.
To be fair to the US, Biden stopped any more arms export to Saudi because of the actions in Yemen. Although, one could argue that the Saudi-led military intervention in Yemen is a magnum opus of a clown show for Saudi (until Russian invasion of Ukraineeclipsed it of course), so I think Biden thought there isn’t really any more point to bet on a losing horse then.
I’m not sure how you consider the Uyghurs a western sanctioned genocide, if anything it’s only the western media that is drawing any attention to it whatsoever.
media reporting it I don’t really qualify as giving a damn.
I would also wager that if I go out on the street here in slovakia and start asking people about it most people would look at me like an idiot and say, WTF is “Uyghurs”?
“Evil wins when good men do nothing” or is that notbhow the saying goes?
I am not arguing semantics, it’s just my view that the lack of sanctions by the west for China for commiting genocide is about as good as sanctioning it.
I don’t think that’s a far fetched view, I think you are the one arguing semantics, or the exact meaning of words rather than realizing the lack of action against evil is about as good as an endorsement of it.
It’s a sad commentary on the state of education nowadays that I also initially assumed that you were dumb enough to not know the difference between “sanctioned genocide” and “applying sanctions”
I’ve had enough “well regulated militia” arguments that it’s scarred me
These comments are full of people spreading objectively false narrative. It’s concerning. Are people in Lemmy intentionally spreading misinformation or do they think what they’re saying is true? Either way, it’s concerning.
Lemmy is not so bad actually. It’s Reddit that is scary. You have people calling for genocide being upvoted to the sky consistently. If someone denounces the violent speech and dehumanization, hell even just asking for some cool heads, they’re downvoted to oblivion.
Good ol’ Dubya set the stage for this 20 years ago. Yer either fer us or yer agin us. Either you support every thing we do without question or you support terrorism.
Look man, you can support Palestine, but telling the soldiers to turn their phones horizontally for better execution videos of civilians is a bit much.
Well, that’s your choice to side with her on that. A lot of people are interpreting it as 1) a terrible time to try to be funny and 2) can easily be interpreted as support for Hamas, until she got a ton of backlash and it started to cost her money and then she ‘totes didn’t mean it that way, just a prank, for realz!’
That was her mistake - the comment was too vague, so the media jumped on it, skewed the narrative, took that skewed narrative and grossly exaggerated it further, and denounced her as pro-Hamas. It’s obvious to see with even a little bit of reading and it’s both frightening and disgusting.
There is absolutely ambiguity, it just doesn’t suit your worldview (or similar) so you lie. It’s your right to lie, but just know that anyone who isn’t dogmatic knows you’re lying.
And definitely not praising the people who just went through a music festival with guns and indiscriminately killed people and dragged off other ones.
A woman whose husband is missing was being interviewed. She said that whenever her baby would cry in their hiding place, bullets would fly through the wall of the shed where they were hiding.
Why anyone would have praise for that organization I cannot fathom.
Good thing she didn’t actually praise anyone who just went through a music festival with guns. But nice job making that assumption instead of actually reading the quote.
Her comment suggests the videos of interest are being filmed by the freedom fighters.
I am unaware of any armed Palestinian group which fights the Israeli government for their independence. Who is the only other group that someone could (somehow) construe as freedom fighters that’s taking videos?
Unless she’s calling the Israeli army freedom fighters and they have people filming in their midst, there’s only one group she can be talking about, and they went through a music festival with guns.
Don’t stop at just reading the comment. Comprehend it. Analyze it.
Edit: And that includes your own comments. There are indeed other groups involved which aren’t Hamas, and she was referring to civilians. Incredibly poor wording if she’s telling the truth, but I see no reason to not give her that benefit of the doubt.
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