I don’t know how anyone can genuinely believe that Republicans are for small government and say the competition is good when they’re using government to stifle competition.
Follow that with "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”… and you start to get a feel for the playbook the GOP is using
Public transit isn’t feasible is many rural areas. I know you don’t like it, but that’s reality. Sending a bus 20 miles down a road in the hopes that one of 4 people on it want to ride on the bus just doesn’t make sense.
What kind of public transit that exists in reality can cover that situation? The answer is none. We can wish and hope for all kinds of things, but for the moment, reality exists.
• High speed rail between major metros.
• Trams / light rail from major metros to nearby suburbia / rural towns.
• Suburbia / rural towns also implement those same trams / light rail.
•• Walkable cities / towns, with emphasis on bus / bike / light rail transit, slowing traffic.
•• High density living with mixed zoning to minimize sprawl.
•• Use of large tracts of land as parks and other third spaces.
I’m sure there’s more, but that’s off the top of my head.
Edit: oh, and instead of following up with “tHis WoN’t wORk”, please offer solutions. That generally goes over better than just complaining.
You are the one complaining and not offering solutions. Your proposed solutions above don’t solve the rural issue (unless your solution is forced relocation of everyone to cities, which is never going to happen) which has to be solved before you can make cars so expensive that only the rich can afford them. I also don’t know why you would want to reserve cars for the ultra wealthy, hardly feels like being ultra wealthy needs more perks.
I see you stopped at the first sentence and decided to make your comment. Rural townships (as well as metros and any other city state) need to incorporate buses and light rail to improve their towns. And start to re-plan around transit, bikes, and walkability.
As for only the ultra wealthy owning cars, I don’t even want them to own cars. Ideally, I would hope cars are so regulated and so heavily taxed, that the only way for anyone to drive them in the future is on a closed track, like how race cars are now.
Humans are terrible drivers. Cars are bad for everyone. And decades of propaganda from car companies have made it where we have an insane culture thinking that somehow cars are the ultimate independence, when it’s actually a self-inflicted trapping.
I didn’t stop at the first line. None of your suggestions encompasses truly rural areas, which is a large amount of the land area of the US. Take a trip out of your metro area some time.
You also realize the vast majority of people don’t live in rural areas, right?
Land doesn’t ride in cars.
Additionally, a train center can be built in a rural area (or can use Amtrak / freight trail that’s already there), to then be used by regional trains.
Like, the options aren’t just a possibility, they’re already here!
Sounds more like you think cars are the superior form of transit, and I can’t dissuade you from thinking that, even tho it’s entirely wrong.
If you’ve traveled that far then you SHOULD be aware that the solutions you mentioned won’t work in rural areas. It boggles my mind that you claim to know rural areas, but persist in proposing non-sensical solutions to mass transit there while simultaneously proposing abolishing cars.
I do agree about time being wasted here, but it’s mine that was wasted by engaging with you.
Sending a bus 20 miles down a road in the hopes that one of 4 people on it want to ride on the bus just doesn’t make sense.
Super true. I am disappointed bus systems have not started an on-demand system. Uber/Lyft showed what an app could do for transportation. Add physical call buttons at stops, or something, for those without mobile phones.
I would ride the bus more if it went where I need to go.
EVs are fine for errands, driving to work/school and some other activities. They suck for longer trips, recreation, sporting uses and moving large amounts of goods or equipment. No way around it. The heavy push towards EVs is not going to work. The demand alone on the grid is unsustainable. Huge issue with that alone. ICE vehicles must stay around. It’ll be fine.
The real issue is the energy grid as more people move to electric cars. California already has rolling blackouts. What happens when millions more EVs start recharging?
“We’re moving so fast to electric vehicles, we’re just making the problems worse,” said state Rep. Jim Gooch ®, the longtime chair of Kentucky’s House energy committee. Those problems are multiplying, he added, as public officials look to electrify government fleets — especially transit systems and school districts.
“I certainly don’t want to put my kids on a school bus that’s electric. I just don’t want to do it,” Gooch said. “And I’ll fight in any way I can to make sure that that’s not something Kentucky’s doing.”
What? Why would you not want your kids going on a bus that has zero exhaust? School busses that use diesel straight smell like crap and it’s absolutely hot af in the south. After reading this quote I was like, this world is so fucked.
To add to that, does anyone here remember those bus fire drills that you had to do once a year?
I remember having to walk a quarter mile away from the propane buses in case they blew. Much more boomy than the diesel or gasoline buses which would only burn you to death!
In the city where I live, almost all public transport buses are electric. Honestly for a bus it’s so much better than diesel, they’re quiet, don’t vibrate and ride much smoother
They can also leverage regen due to constant stopping, don’t get high drag penalty due to low speeds, etc. seems like good application for EV. Makes no sense as you said.
Supporters say it ensures every driver pays their fair share. But the fee is nearly double what an average driver would pay in taxes at the pump, according to consumer advocates.
Sounds like the foundation for legal challenges from EV manufacturers.
Why is it a good thing? Because it’s making up for the state’s lost revenue? They can do that in a myriad of ways. Jesus Christ people are easy. Just provide literally any reason and they’ll justify your decision as long as it supports the status quo.
Gas taxes pay for a lot of the road maintenance, at least in my state. Electric cars don't pay this tax because they're, well, electric.
However, they weigh a lot more than a comparable gasoline car because of all the batteries. And because road wear scales at a cube of vehicle weight, they're causing a lot more damage per mile driven.
So until there's a way to get electric car drivers to pay for their increased road maintenance costs, all of the cost of road maintenance would be subsidized by people who aren't doing as much damage to the road.
I think a per-mile tax on an EV, paid at the annual registration and based on vehicle weight, would be a fair way to spread out the cost of building roads.
I live in one of these states that charges $100 for hybrids annually. Annoying as hell but I save so much on gas that it’s worth it. I get the argument that gas taxes pay for road maintenance, but this whole thing isn’t going to be sustainable in the long run.
Except the argument that gas taxes pay for road maintenance is total fucking bogus when you realize how much is spent on entirely unnecessary road maintenance just because of city/state governments in bed with construction companies.
The taxes should probably be based on some combination of usage and gross vehicle weight. People driving more with heavy vehicles ought to pay a larger share of road maintenance. A gas tax somewhat handles this since people with larger vehicles who drive more will use more gas.
But the gas taxes don’t even cover all of the money spent on maintaining/upgrading the roads. Roads are very expensive especially when you have these large highway interchange projects. We should really be trying to get people away from driving cars and onto transit, biking, walking etc. as much as possible
Ah you think downvotes are your ally? You merely adopted the downvotes. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the upvotes until I was already a boomer, by then it was nothing to me but turmoil!
The damage to the road based on vehicle weight is exponential, though. A very heavy electric car causes very little additional wear to the roads when compared to a traditional car.
Charge road use taxes by vehicle weight. Yes, electric cars are heavy, but so is the average American vehicle, because people seem to love their enormous trucks. If you have a Model 3 or a roadster, it’s actually lighter than the average.
According to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the average weight of a car is around 4094 pounds. A small car weighs around 2600 pounds, while a large car weighs around 4400 pounds.
Tesla Model X Plaid - 5,390 pounds
Tesla Model X Standard Range - 5,185 pounds
Tesla Model S Plaid - 4,766 pounds
Tesla Model S Long Range - 4,561 pounds
Tesla Model Y Long Range & Performance - 4,416 pounds
Tesla Model 3 Long Range & Performance - 4,065 pounds
With safety regulations, I thought smaller cars are around 2800-3000lbs now. A 7 year old (2016) Mazda 3 (compact car) is showing as 2900lbs. When you say small are you talking like the sub compact cars? Just trying to get an idea of what small means in this instance.
Compact sedans, and sedans overall are a dying breed. Car manufactures have largely replaced with with compact crossovers, or even worse egg shaped subcompact crossovers.
A new Mazda 3 weights 100-300 pounds more than that 2016. The Buick “code” subcompact egg weighs about the same 3300 pounds. Your more typical Ford explorer weighs 4300-5000 pounds. The escape is surprisingly light at 3300-3900 pounds.
Mazda is also an example of manufactures that try to keep things as light as possible to maintain handling. They also make the 2300 pound Miata.
Oh I’m aware they’re dying in America. I just wanted to see what small car was defined as because unless you get the Miata (which is one of the lightest cars out there) you’re getting up in the weight. Hell, I have a GR86 and it’s supposed to be a lightweight and great handling sports car and it’s 2800lbs empty.
You’ve got it right, but let me expand with the power of mathematical modelling. The average vehicle is, for the last 20 years or so, pegged at 4000 lbs when doing road damage calculations. A Chevy bolt EV is around 3800 lbs, or smaller than average, while Tesla vehicles are like you said. The fourth power law is what is used to estimate road damage, and the take away point from that is that all vehicles in and around that 4000 lb range and nothing, notta, moot, compared to large trucks and shipping rigs.
As an example. Take the bolt EV at 3800 lbs, the F150 at 4200 lbs, and the F350 at 6764 lbs.
The bolt and f150 would have 1900lbs and 2100lbs per axle respectively. Applying the fourth power rule the F150 does (2100/1900)^4= 1.49 times the damage of a Bolt EV. Meanwhile the F350 does , (3382/1900)^4 = 10 times the road damage.
So then, is it true that the F150 and F350 will be made to pay 1.5 and 10 times the registration and fuel taxes of an EV like the Bolt? I have not yet seen this to be true. Now imagine how much damage a delivery van, or large shipping vehicle does.
The other part of this is environmental damage, are these states going to find a way to charge for carbon emissions proportionally from the gas vehicles? Of course not.
In Canada anyway fuel taxes go into general revenue, not to roads, that’s a whole different line of argument.
Gotcha, I thought you were talking about vehicle registrations.
If the argument is about paying for roads, then big 18 wheelers should be paying multiple orders of magnitude more for the road wear and tear even over EVs.
Yeah, it’s tricky though because road damage from weight isn’t a linear thing, but also, trucks aren’t just out there for fun, they’re out there to put products on shelves for consumption.
So if you tax truck registration in Ohio, but then big trucking companies will just register in Mississippi like rental car companies do.
Tax diesel and that will impact a bunch of non semi vehicles.
In my ideal world, we’d have a full carbon tax as well as a vehicle weight tax, and we’d use part of that to fund more electrified public transit (e.g., trains, trams, trolleybuses) and bike infrastructure. Plus we need to actually legalize dense, walkable urbanism. The zoning codes and parking minimums in North America make it literally illegal to build anything dense, walkable, and transit-oriented across almost all the urban land, resulting in miles and miles of government-mandated sprawl.
The future of sustainable urban is truly in public transit and micromobility – car dependency just doesn’t make any sense in cities, as no amount of electric cars can make up for the harm caused by sprawling, car-dependent land use. Electric cars are obviously less bad than ICE cars, but just swapping out ICE cars for electric is not actually financially, socially, or environmentally sustainable.
We should still have electric cars for the use cases (e.g., rural areas) for which you truly do need them, but the vehicle weight arms race (especially for trucks and SUVs) is getting out of control and we need the electric cars we would still have to be much smaller and lighter like this. Fewer electric hummers, more electric kei trucks, more electric trains, more electric bikes.
I am a Republican and I hate their stance on electric cars, walkable cities, etc. For some reason, the party has taken an ignorant and hard stance against electric.
Could you look at other stances too? It’s not just this.
The alternative currently being no restrictions whatsoever, which, statistically speaking, is more relevant than a small % worth of exceptions. Make me Supreme overlord of the universe and you bet you’ll have a few exceptions.
Supporting 1/6
Burn the fucking government to the ground for all I care.
Observation of them being worse for the economy after investigating state of economy for decades
OK and? I’m not playing some strategy game here. Optimizing existence isn’t the goal. “the economy” isn’t some God we must appease.
Closing of majority-black voting poll locations.
Pretty fucking bottom of the barrel shit to be deciding a vote based on. Decide polling locations by throwing a dart at a map for all I care.
The only reason so many people are “obsessed” with him is because all 350M or so of us saw exactly the sort of person he is, and exactly the sort of damage he could do as president. Some people liked that. Most of us were horrified, and were additionally horrified by the fraction of people who did actually genuinely like him because of the things he did and continues to do. It’s a litmus test.
But yes - you’re nominally right, so let’s put the man aside for a moment. Personally, I’m still curious which current, national-level GOP policies you continue to find compelling.
They could just take the money from fossil fuel subsidies. This way, you don’t give people a new reason to not get an EV and we reduce tax revenue used to support the fossil fuel industry.
That would have to be one huge payment, though. I can only think of a few cases in my entire life that I’ve bought a tire.
Seems better to me that they collect the taxes from everyone from the income tax and/or business taxes. Everyone uses the roads, even if they don’t have a car.
Given an average gas tax of 31 cents per gallon, and an average distance driven of 13,489 miles, and an average mpg of 15.7 (for passenger cars), the average driver might pay $266.34/year in gas tax in a year. Let’s say that the driver had to replace all of their tires every 45,000 miles. That means you’d have to recoup that annual gas tax amount 3.33 times in tire taxes. This would add $886.91 to the cost of the tire purchase, or $221.72 for each tire.
I haven’t had to buy tires in a long time (small blessings from Covid), so I had to look up the average cost of a tire at Discount Tire. 16-20" all season tires cost $100-$250 each. Woof! That would take a total tire cost from $400-$1,000 to $1,286.91-$1,886.91.
Don’t drive on any dirty roads, I guess. Those flats are going to be painful!
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