@codinghorror I mean, yes. Sure. And not just marriages, but all kinds of relationships familial and friendly.
But also, are you doing your share of the dishes? The laundry, the food shopping and cooking, the household cleaning, the booking of appointments, the arranging of social events? Without being asked?
@codinghorror As someone who's just celebrated my 12th wedding anniversary - and had a significant number of arguments about dishes and similar apparent trivialities during these 12 years - I feel this is spot on!
@denix@codinghorror It isn't an all or nothing question, and recognizing house chores are more problematic to men in heterosexual relationships isn't sexist.
Definitely put off by the title, and the "Men are wrong. Men, fix yourselves!" vibe. If men are broken (many are) there are reasons for reason for it, but on that list of reasons is not "the free and unfettered choices that individual boys and young men made in their lives, acting in their capacity as autonomous libertarian fantasy creatures."
Anyone blaming men are like folks who said women shouldn't vote because they weren't educated, while refusing to educate women.
@tjradcliffe@clacke There isn't something inherently wrong with men except maybe a marginal testosterone-induced greater tendency to aggressivity, but there is something that is instilled in men from a very young age that can and should be unlearned for them to be decent to be around. It isn't just about the parents, it's about society at large and can be summarized by the classic "boys will be boys" response.
@hypolite
soo there is nothing "inherently wrong" with men, except the things they inherited from society and parents, which need to be unlearned because they are wrong?
Maybe the onus is on society to change. Maybe that's where almost all of our attention should be, instead of on men as these mythical autonomous individuals.
So just to be clear, you're agreeing with Margaret Thatcher that "there's no such thing as society"? That is: there are only individuals, with no identity beyond what they freely choose for themselves, unconstrained by class or system.
I don't think I really have a fruitful way to engage with a far right libertarian, and the position "society is nothing but a collection of individuals"--that is, there are no collective effects--is a far right libertarian position.
@tjradcliffe Your suggestion about my political belief is so far off course that it is amusing, but it doesn't change the truth, for society to change, the behavior of individuals composing it needs to change, there's no way around it.
And in the current case, the onus is mainly on men to improve the overall health of heterosexual relationships in Western society. The people who tend to disagree with this also tend to be on the conservative side of the political spectrum.
And I don't think I have a fruitful way to engage with a conservative.
My characterization of your political position is based on your stated political position, which is indistinguishable in this regard from Margaret Thatcher's.
This view of "men as individuals are the problem" is what feeds nightmares like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate, who are precisely telling "men as individuals" what to do, rather than talking about how society can change to nurture better men and boys, and how it harms them now, as it once harmed women
@tjradcliffe Your constant nonsensical side-stepping of the issue at hand to evade personal responsibility and intentionally mischaracterizing my position is tiring now.
I'm glad you were able to convince yourself you're right. Please don't do this in public again.
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