benjaminhollon,
@benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

Installing Debian 12 now. Wish me luck.

RL_Dane,
@RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

@benjaminhollon

You're switching to ?!? :o

benjaminhollon,
@benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

@RL_Dane Trying to.

The installer doesn’t seem to be designed for people triple booting with a LUKS-encrypted btrfs root partition on EUFI. Odd, I know. ;)

I think I fixed the final problem I was having but haven’t had time to test it yet (spending time with my family now).

benjaminhollon,
@benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

@RL_Dane
Aaaand no my "fix" put me in GRUB Rescue.

I'll give it another crack tomorrow.

sotolf,

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @benjaminhollon

    No need to be impetuous. :P

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane

    Pacman and apt are my two least favorite package managers, so… a tough decision. ;)

    I’m doing this since I’ve been on bleeding edge for a long while and wanting to try the other end now that my hardware is supported.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon

    apt has been surpassed by a lot these days, but it was absolutely the cat's meow 20 years ago.

    @sotolf

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf
    I'm sure it was. But twenty years ago, I was not alive.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon

    A mere inconvenience, I'm sure. 🤣

    @sotolf

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf A minor setback, I’ve got my world domination plans back on track now.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    What we do every h day: try to take over the world. (Isn’t that question asked by pinky though? I haven’t actually seen the show but the quote gets thrown at me a lot.)

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    I never saw it or knew more than that line, but when you mention world domination as much as I did, you get that quote explained to you pretty quickly. ;)

    (colemak is going better, btw)

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    I enjoyed noticing this morning that "I need to eat" is all on the home row. ;)

    Interestingly, one of the harder words to type has been my own name, since I often forget where "j" is or mistype it.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon @sotolf

    Did you know QWERTY is QWERTY partly so typewriter salesmen could type "typewriter" all on the first row?

    That's the dumbest reason. XD

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf You have got to be kidding. 😳

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    My middle name has one letter off, but the other two are significantly harder.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @benjaminhollon

    I didn't know Norwegians had big complex names.

    Most Persians don't even have middle names. XD

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @benjaminhollon

    Marriage isn't a big thing in Norway?

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane That’s how I think the government should deal with marriage, imo, based on registered partnerships or cohabitation for any benefits. This may be a hot take, but I see “marriage” as a religious thing, mostly, so it should be left up to individual religions to deal with it (or, I guess, to non religious organizations too?).

    Basically I don’t think “marriage” is something that should be under the government’s control.

    I am happy to consider counterarguments.

    sotolf,

    @benjaminhollon

    I meant decade, not century, the stuff a century old you're probably better at picking up than me :p

    @RL_Dane

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    Heh, that may be the case. I'm a big fan of music from that era, at least. ;)

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon @sotolf

    Dude, that show was stinking brilliant.

    Animaniacs was the only cartoon I actually enjoyed watching in my late 20s. Heck, I'd probably enjoy much of it today.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane I like parts of it, but the flags drive me mad. Just give me subcommands, for goodness’ sake. 😂

    It’s doesn’t really matter, I guess, it just feels like much more cognitive overhead to me that I’ve experienced with package managers like dnf or zypper.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane There’s nothing wrong with it, it just feels really frustrating to me for no reason. I know it’s irrational.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon

    It feels unweildy at first, but I promise you'll get used to it.

    But definitely try first. It deserves some love.

    @sotolf

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf Assuming I can get it working. :P

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    Hmm, I haven't experienced that with dnf.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    That's possible, yeah.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    Heh, yes, it's an odd name.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf

    That's hilarious.

    Isn't it supposed to be DaNdiFied yum?

    @benjaminhollon

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf I think so? Odd that they picked those letters though. I’d have done dfy.

    OrbitalDev,

    @benjaminhollon @RL_Dane @sotolf It could have a fun Linux name then, like "Duffy"

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @OrbitalDev @benjaminhollon @sotolf

    Duffy: the Dependency Slayer

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf

    It is stupid fast.

    I had no idea a package manager could even be that fast.

    @benjaminhollon

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf

    I thought rust pumped out pretty optimized object code.

    Maybe not as fast as well-written C, but definitely C++

    But that's just hearsay; I don't have much experience with it.

    @benjaminhollon

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar
    brunofontes,
    @brunofontes@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @benjaminhollon @RL_Dane I actually moved away from Debian/Mint in my main computer because I do prefer pacman (and aur) over apt. That's how I ended up with Manjaro for the last... 3? 4 years?

    sotolf,

    @brunofontes

    You mean the copycat distro that keeps DDoSing Aur, that can't even keep up with their website certificates, that keeps on shipping software in states that the dev begs them not to ship? that manjaro?

    @benjaminhollon @RL_Dane

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @brunofontes @benjaminhollon

    We could have a free energy device. Just hook Sotolf up to a pair of jumper cables and lock him in a room with Rust and Manjaro fans. XD

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @brunofontes @benjaminhollon

    I'm totally with you on the last two. Total crap.

    brunofontes,
    @brunofontes@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf @benjaminhollon I do use JS, but it is not on my top list. But electron... err... Well, being paid well for that I would be ok, otherwise is a no.

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @brunofontes @RL_Dane @sotolf I developed an electron app once. It was not a good experience, once initial development was over and I had to clean up tech debt and bugs.

    brunofontes,
    @brunofontes@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @benjaminhollon @RL_Dane hahahaha That one! But I don't use pamac (never used it as I don't like the idea) and I've thought a million times already of "migrating" it into an Arch distro. I do have a lot of customizations and things that I need to work, starting it from scrach would not be a good idea unless strictly necessary.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @brunofontes @sotolf @benjaminhollon

    I've had a pretty good time migrating from Manjaro to EndeavourOS.

    I never quite got the point of pamac. :P

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @brunofontes @benjaminhollon

    It's pretty c?lean. ;)

    brunofontes,
    @brunofontes@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane @benjaminhollon Is there a crazy migration way of doing it, the same way there is to migrate to Arch? Or is it necessary to do a reinstall?

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @brunofontes @sotolf @benjaminhollon

    When Jonathon was still with us, he posted some migration instructions to the Manjaro forum. I'm not sure if they're still there.

    Honestly, I'd just tar up my homedir, wipe, and reinstall. That's what I did.

    brunofontes,
    @brunofontes@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf @benjaminhollon Yeah, I don't think I will have time enought to setup everything again in one weekend or something like that. There are too many automated stuff and personal configurations, shortcuts etc etc. Chaging the package source would eventually do the trick, though. Not perfectly, but better than having to find all done, search for everything, remember to find all config files from services etc etc.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf I considered it but ended up feeling like going for slower package updates. Sounds kinda nice right now.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf
    Part of it is growing frustration at frequent large updates when on a low-bandwidth connection here in Malaysia. Another part is that I don't need to be bleeding edge anymore now that firmware from my device has reached an LTS kernel.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf
    That's a pretty significant amount when you get ~300kbps from your workspace on a good day. ;)

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf
    Cue @RL_Dane popping in to mourn the days when 1-2gb updates weren't considered normal. ;)

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane
    I must have misunderstood. No twisting was intended.

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @benjaminhollon

    It's more like 50-100MiB a pop, if you update every few days.

    I've got some updates to do on this PBP, lemme see the size...

    12 packages to upgrade, 12.71 MiB

    Last update was two days ago.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @benjaminhollon

    You will occasionally get fatter updates though, even if you update every day.

    But I think running debian is good experience. It's still a really good distro.

    I hope Debian gets more love, now that is pulling a (and much worse).

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @RL_Dane @sotolf

    Yeah I love fedora but it’s getting really hard to recommend it when it’s subject to the whims of IBM’s lawyers.

    Instead I think I’ll be setting up my mom with OpenSUSE.

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf @RL_Dane

    You think I’m trying to avoid arch—you should see the excuses I make to get away from the people urging me to install Gentoo. ;)

    https://xkcd.com/456/

    RL_Dane,
    @RL_Dane@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon

    I've seen this one, but I just noticed the caption 😅

    @sotolf

    sotolf,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @sotolf
    Still adds up. Even a 100M update takes agonizingly long, and that's about the size they get split into, in my experience.

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    Uh oh, it failed to install GRUB… troubleshooting time.

    Anachron,
    @Anachron@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon just curious: What advantage does it give to reinstall another distro when you have a working one?

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @Anachron Eh, I’m getting tired of NixOS. Feel like a change. Debian’s slower updates and non-immutable filesystem sound nice right now.

    Anachron,
    @Anachron@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon right.

    I smoehow wasn't aware you are on NixOS, I use and move my installation between drives and computers.

    A good backup strategy makes sure I don't need to start from scratch once something breaks.

    I can even boot another lvm volume in case my root one dies. (rm -rf --no-preserve-root? does not kill me! ;))

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @Anachron
    Neat! That sounds like a great setup.

    underlap,
    @underlap@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon @Anachron Debian's slower updates attracted me too, but after I switched to an older kernel (because of graphics problems), it felt like I was living on borrowed time. Plus I would hit bugs or missing features because of lagging behind. So it wasn't quite the sweet spot I'd imagined.

    Now on arch, I occasionally hit bugs after a rolling upgrade, but, so far, these have been resolved in a couple of weeks after another rolling upgrade.

    void is tempting because of no systemd...

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @underlap @Anachron
    Well, it's worth a shot. :)

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @underlap @Anachron
    And hey if I end up wanting systemd I can switch to devuan.

    underlap,
    @underlap@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon @Anachron I wonder how tricky it would be to set up dual-boot, e.g. arch plus void, so I could switch distros with an easy way to revert?

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @underlap @Anachron
    That's always how I do distro-changes: dual boot. I keep the old one around a while until I'm sure, then remove it and expand my partitions to fill the space.

    array,
    @array@fosstodon.org avatar

    @underlap @benjaminhollon @Anachron I have a laptop which dual boots (vanilla) Arch + Void like a dream. It's been like that for some years now, no hiccups. I just take into account that GRUB updates are done though Arch only in my setup, so if say there's a kernel update in Void, I won't see it unless GRUB is updated in my Arch partition. Is less confusing that it seems. ;)

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @array @underlap @Anachron My efforts today to install Debian were not helped by the fact that this would be a triple boot between it, Fedora, and NixOS. ;)

    Anachron,
    @Anachron@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon @array @underlap I wouldnt dual boot anymore.

    Either a container or even a chroot, if I have to.

    array,
    @array@fosstodon.org avatar

    @Anachron @benjaminhollon @underlap I have that setup in a spare machine, and it's nice having both distros there to check how they're going. ;) My main machine boots just one distro, of course (Ubuntu, because reasons). ;)

    array,
    @array@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon @underlap @Anachron From my own experience, Fedora doesn't seem to play too nice (if at all) with n>1 boot setups. Good you got there already. :)

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    Hmm I think I’m gonna abort this and try again another time when I’ve done my research better.

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    Oh, there are images with the calamares installer? I think I'll go for that for my next try, I'm already familiar with the interface, and confusion over the default interface was causing me a lot of trouble when trying to partition manually.

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    Well, with Calamares everything installed. But when I enter my pass phrase to decrypt everything at boot, it just hangs and never does anything. Any ideas?

    Anachron,
    @Anachron@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon sounds like a broken boot setup.

    Run your live image, mount manually and then check if the parameters inside your boot are correct (for example, if you use LVM, check if its loaded properly).

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @Anachron I think it’s due to an artifact of a past attempt; it was causing my fedora install to hang too. I still need to take the time to reboot and test if it works now though.

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @Anachron Never mind, now I’m getting dropped in GRUB Rescue. :P

    I’m gonna have to attack this again tomorrow. I have work to get done now.

    bonaccolto90,
    @bonaccolto90@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon strange... i tried it and it installed just fine for me...

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @bonaccolto90
    Probably due to some issue with my manual partitioning with LUKS encryption.

    bonaccolto90,
    @bonaccolto90@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon that could be the issue

    underlap,
    @underlap@fosstodon.org avatar

    @benjaminhollon I really liked Debian!

    Shame it couldn't handle my graphics card (https://gist.github.com/glyn/b61d087f08f9ed0e0ca051228ed1676a), but hopefully YMMV.

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @underlap Hopefully so. I’m using a framework laptop with 12th gen intel, so everything should be upstream in Linux 6.1.

    crmsnbleyd,

    @benjaminhollon already on it! It's good!

    benjaminhollon,
    @benjaminhollon@fosstodon.org avatar

    @crmsnbleyd Good! Hopefully I won’t have any problems due to gong off path and installing as a dual boot with btrfs and full disk encryption. :)

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