I'll start off saying that I believe that intrinsically the continued existence of Palestinian national identity is an affront to a naive heroic narrative about Israel. As a North American, I know what it feels like to be reminded of our unreconciled, and possibly unreconcilable, history of settler colonial genocide of the First Nations and enslavement of Black people. It can feel anti-American, anti-Canadian.
I also know that some Israelis and Jewish people worldwide feel this comparison of North American and Israeli history is unfair. It's my best way to access the topic, though, so if you find the comparison less than perfect, pick any other country where romantic patriotic mythos does not square up with historical facts and current life.
There is also a roundabout logic in which Palestinian nationalism is antisemitic. Roughly, it says that Palestinian nationalism requires the whole of prewar British mandate Palestine to be run by a Palestinian government, possibly islamicist. It would replace the state of Israel, which is the guarantee of safety for Jewish people worldwide. So, Palestinian nationalism means the disappearance of Jewish people.
I think it's also possible, but more difficult, to draw a similar line of inference in a two state solution. In that logic, it's impossible for Israel to be safe with a Palestinian state next door, forming a deep enclave in the Israeli borders, and so Israel is at risk militarily, and in this scenario falls, putting at risk all Jewish people once again.
The problem here is that many of these assumptions are hard to justify. Palestinian nationalism doesn't preclude the existence of a Jewish state in the region. There are many, many ways Palestinians and Israelis can live in the same region with autonomy, human rights, national self-determination, and safety. It is possible and as a world community we have an obligation to make it happen.
Another issue is some Palestinian national symbols are about violent struggle against Israel. The keffiyeh is an example; it's strongly related to the First and Second Intifada. I think for many Israelis and other Jewish people, these specific symbols feel like a threat.
Additionally, I think there is some use of Palestinian national symbols to obscure or displace Jewish or Israeli symbols that is hostile. The Palestinian flag on the Yale menorah is a case in point.
That all said, I think the symbols of Palestinian nationalism convey some unavoidable truths: Palestinians exist; Palestine exists as a nation with a right to self-determination; Palestinians exist in historic Palestine; they deserve basic human rights.
Ultimately, I think it's important to check in on these topics. Is it OK to display Palestinian national symbols if they make Jewish people feel uncomfortable? Probably. Unsafe? Probably not. Is it possible to find an area between "uncomfortable" and "unsafe" where productive dialogue can occur? I think that's the big question in anti-war, pro-Palestinian activism right now.
I think it's also fair to say that there are bad-faith actors making the kinds of tenuous arguments I describe above in order to shut down discussion of Palestinian nationalism and ending the war in Gaza. That definitely doesn't help with finding the right territory for discourse.
@evan I didn't see this poll in time, but would have voted strongly disagree, and I'm pro-Israel. The Palestinian flag is just a flag, and the watermelon is a stand-in from when the flag was banned in Israel. A Hamas symbol like 🔻 would be anti-Semitic, but the Palestinian flag is not.
The kuffiyeh has a bad history, but became a generically Palestinian symbol, same way Antifa began as a communist symbol but later became a New Left one that is these days anti-Putin and pro-Ukraine.
@evan The thing is tho... for a people to have self-determination, they have to WANT it.
It's not at all clear to me that Gazans -- or even Palestinians in general -- have any such desire. It's not uncommon in traditionally authoritarian cultures to desire a strongman or men... though it's always MEN.
Remember: the two-state solution wasn't rejected by Israel. It was rejected by Palestinians. They didn't want a two-state solution back then... they wanted to destroy Israel, and have one state.
Do they want a state, now? That is also not obvious.
When was the last time Palestinians marched against Hamas? Where were they during the Arab Spring? Why hasn't there been an election in almost 20 years, when Gazans put Hamas in power over the Palestinian Authority?
You can't force self-determination onto a people who don't want it. You get a "Hamas" when you do.
@evan Mostly the latter. For example, of you identify as Palestinian you might simply be displaying affinity or loyalty to your place/people. Distinct from political or financial commitment to driving Israelis into the sea or supporting Hamas violence against civilians. Or not - the symbols alone don't say.
@evan strongly disagree, and so so strongly that i think even framing this as a question/poll/discussion is harmful. it's not. anyone making this claim (not you) ought to be completely and utterly disregarded, not given even a shred of humor.
thank you @trwnh, I couldn't have stated this better myself (and I was in the process of trying to respond with exactly what you are saying here) @evan
@liaizon@trwnh thanks to you both. I am not as certain that the question is as far outside the window of acceptable discourse as you are. I tried to give my reasoning here:
@evan@trwnh I read your thread earlier, I am glad that you are posting about this and thinking about it. I have been wanting to try writing out some of my thoughts more thoroughly on the matter as well cause I do think its really important for us to discuss these things openly.
In regards to the poll topic: would you run the poll "Displaying Israeli symbols like the Star of David, the menorah, or the Flag of Israel is Islamophobic."
and if not then can you explain why you wouldn't?
@liaizon@evan hmm, this is actually not equivalent, because there actually might be a context of Israeli nationalism or ethnonationalism. In stark contrast to ethnic cleansing and ethnonationalism of the Zionist project, the cause of Palestinian freedom is not founded on Arab/Muslim privilege. “Palestine” is a multicultural and multiethnic construct. You see this dichotomy in the “right of return” being extended selectively so as to exclude Palestinian refugees.
@trwnh yeah it was less about being an equivalent, and more just highlighting the strange framing of the question, but I agree completely with your points here
@trwnh I appreciate the sentiment. I really do want to get a temperature reading on this topic.
At least here in Canada, the Overton window does extend this far. Members of the Provincial Parliament in Ontario have been banned from wearing the keffiyeh.
@trwnh@evan
The #keffiyeh has been allowed in the Ontario Provincial Parliament in the past, and it will be in the future, but at present the Speaker has ruled that members are wearing it as a political statement, which is forbidden — members are supposed to make political statements with their words, and not otherwise.
Add comment