"Update: Relay will continue to operate from July 1st."

NevermindNoMind, 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

Some people have trouble letting go I guess. First of all, after all that has happened why any developer would choose to continue doing business with Reddit is beyond me. Reddit has demonstrated they will shaft you on a moment's notice (ok a month's notice), go back on their word, lie about developers for PR points, etc. Reddit is not a good business partner.

Second, who is this even for? What percentage of Relay users are going to pay for a limited version of Reddit with usage limits? The only reason Reddit is making these deals with Relay and Narwhal is because Reddit thinks they won't succeed in staying alive. Reddit thinks the vast majority of Relay/Narwhal users will decide its too expensive to use these apps to get a worse experience, so will end up on the official app. Reddit gets to hold these up as examples of reasonable developers who were willing to work with Reddit, unlike those crying babies that are closing their apps. And if Reddit is wrong, and Relay/Narwhal stay profitable and active, then we're just back to point 1 - Reddit will just turn the screws on the API pricing until they get crushed.

This just feels like an abusive relationship. Dave just needs to accept reality - Reddit TPA's are dead (and Reddit as a whole isn't long for this world either). I've used Relay for years, very disappointed in the developer. I'm still deleting July 1.

VanillaGorilla, 10 months ago

I uninstalled Relay and moved on. Kinda wished DBrady would have done the same. I don't want Reddit get paid for their shitty behaviour.

ki77erb, 10 months ago

Exactly this. Relay was a great app and I will miss it and Reddit. I would love for Dbrady to start fresh with Relay for Lemmy but I imagine that is quite a bit of work and maybe he just doesn't feel up to it. I wish him the best no matter what happens!

wmrch, 10 months ago

Thanks for this well-written roundup of what's going on. I think you've hit the nail on the head. I just hope the dev doesn't rack up debt in the time the app is free...

shiftenter, 10 months ago

Nearly agree with everything you said.

But maybe Reddit is okay with a few 3rd party apps surviving if it means they can charge such a ridiculous premium on API requests. Perhaps they didn't think any dev would be crazy enough to take them up on their offer. But at that point, they're raking in so much money that they might not care those users are on a 3rd party app.

NevermindNoMind, 10 months ago

That’s a fair point. If Relay and co hang on to a few thousand users and pay a cost per month 5x what it’s worth to reddit to have those users on its app, your right reddit might be like fuck it this works for us. At the end of the day, whatever is most profitable to reddit. For the most part, that means using the official reddit app so reddit can track you. But if some dumb devs are willing to pay more than Reddit would get from direct data harvesting, let them go. No, I think your right.

I think a few apps is key though, they want the majority of their users locked in.

MerylasFalguard, 10 months ago

Reddit gets to hold these up as examples of reasonable developers who were willing to work with Reddit, unlike those crying babies that are closing their apps.

This deserves to be repeated. Like… I get why one would want to not let their project die, but we all know this is exactly what’s going to happen. These few who remain will funnel a ton of money into Reddit’s pocket for a worse experience all so that they can be used to further slander the devs of the 3PAs who were forced out from the API changes. In a couple months when the last few 3PAs inevitably go under, I don’t know if a single tear will be shed because the writing on the wall is so obvious.

aeternum, 10 months ago

I just feel bad for the devs of TPA. They created so much value for reddit when reddit didn't even HAVE an app. Then reddit shafts them so hard for all the work they put in. Fuck reddit.

McBinary, 10 months ago

I also use Relay, and I'm not sure how I feel about this move. I'm using reddit less and less since the blackout, and mostly just to check on the protest at this point. I love the Relay app, and DBrady is an incredible dev, but I refuse to give money to reddit after this whole debacle, especially for an app that will be stripped of it's full capability,

jherazob, 10 months ago

Used Relay since it was called Reddit News, i wish DBrady the best, but it's too late, my 17 years old account is now gone, and am leaving the site.

mr_tyler_durden, 10 months ago

To each their own but when Apollo died, Reddit died for me. It would feel disrespectful to continue to use Reddit at this point, both to the devs forced off and to myself.

Zuberi, 10 months ago

It’s displaying reddit content still? For money? Lmfao

Zuberi, 10 months ago

It's displaying reddit content still? For money? Lmfao

RedditExodus, 10 months ago

Even with a subscription cost for the API, users still won't be getting any NSFW posts. That includes porn obviously but there was also tons of non-porn NSFW content in subs like /r/drugs, /r/sex, etc.

setsneedtofeed, 10 months ago (edited 10 months ago)

Piggybacking on the point: People keep repeating Reddit’s line that non-porn NSFW will be allowed, but every time anybody (including Selig) asked how Reddit will manage to differentiate types of NSFW, it’s been radio silence on Reddit’s end.

Despite Reddit’s promises I do think it will end up being a blanket NSFW ban.

I think it will cause all sorts of problems if Reddit tries to actually slice the line. What’s the difference between art and porn? Would a hypothetical subreddit like “artistic photos of naked women” be porn? If not, what about photos of topless protests? Could a subreddit made entirely of photos of topless protestors be considered NSFW but not porn? What about something like a subreddit of clothed women sticking their bare feet at the camera- would that be able to simply not mark itself NSFW since it isn’t actually showing anything explicitly sexual?

When there’s no official line it’s so much easier to mark things NSFW out of an abundance of caution. When marking things NSFW or determining porn from non-porn NSFW actually affects user experience it’s going to become a headache for all involved.

Hobovision, 10 months ago

I might subscribe for a bit just to toss the dev some $$$ because I've been using the pro version for years. I think the way he explained it is that he pays reddit based on the usage and any additional goes to him. So if I subscribe and make barely any API calls, he should make out nicely and reddit won't get much.

magnetosphere, 10 months ago

This is just sad. If I was talking to Dave, I’d say “I’m sorry you had to go through this, but playing along with reddit’s demands is not the answer. I know it’ll be hard to turn your back on something that you’ve spent years refining, but it’s time to move on.”

savagenoble, 10 months ago

I wish DBrady nothing but the best. I've used the paid version of his app for over 10 years, since before it was Relay. I won't be using Reddit going forward, but if this arrangement works for him, then I don't fault him for doing it.

Dagnet, 10 months ago

How I dreamed of him making a lemmy app. Literally couldn't use any other app for reddit, the UX was just so damn good. Right now I don't miss reddit, which I thought I would, I miss relay so much tho

genoxidedev1, 10 months ago

Apart from having to pay for a neutered Reddit experience due to nsfw being disabled completely... actually, "apart" is the wrong word, that's just it. You'd be paying for a neutered Reddit experience. You literally are going to have to pay a monthly fee to scroll r/all once a day for 30 days.

AnonymousLlama, 10 months ago

Interested to see how this works out for them and how strongly he'll be able to optimize his app, I'd be keen on getting a breakdown of user statistics (to see how many calls are getting done every hour for example)

Maybe with some of these apps still sticking around, the migration to the fediverse will benefit because less people will be flooding these new spaces all at once

Drusas, 10 months ago

I've been a Relay user for a long time, but the time has passed. I would have been happy enough to pay a small monthly fee for the app, but Reddit's days as being the only real option are over.

Ryan213, 10 months ago

Relay was my go-to app.... But I'm done with Reddit. Make Relay for Lemmy! Re...mmy?!

marswarrior, 10 months ago

Oof

deluxeparrot, 10 months ago

This seems quite clever by Reddit. It looks like there’s some deal that if they remove ads from their apps they get free api usage for a few months. Seems suspicous that both apps doing this have removed ads.

This will soften the blow a little for Reddit as now at least 1 decent sized 3rd party app on each platform (Android/IOS) will continue to work for a while.

A clever PR move that changes nothing.

numbscroll, 10 months ago

@deluxeparrot

@fruitcake119 I thought Reddit intentionally doesn’t funnel ads to or allow 3rd party apps to have ads?

jiji, 10 months ago

I believe Reddit did not provide their ads through the API (aka the ones integrated into the feeds), but some apps still had generic app ads (like the little banner ones provided by Google AdSense glued at the bottom of the app).

Anomander, 10 months ago

It doesn't, but several apps were previously funded by sourcing their own ads. That's why the double-whammy of Reddit hiking API charges to 20X their own costs and prohibiting third-party apps from showing their own ads was such a problem - by prohibiting ads, Reddit was saying that apps effectively had to be funded by charging users, they couldn't just go find outside sources of funding.

XGC75, 10 months ago

Marketers care an unreasonable amount about how their ads show up from a UI/X perspective. It's meaningless, but these people stake their roles on it, convincing entire industries it matters. Then you get some marketers who are laid off entering consultation and keeping the wheels turning on these ideas....

Ask me how I know 😮‍💨

Anyways, imagine Reddit looking to go IPO and asking their customers (marketers buying ads) what they can do to improve their services to these patrons, and you get /u/spez breaking his back to please them ahead of the customers their patrons would reach.

JBloodthorn, 10 months ago

I will continue to work - partially. No nsfw, and usage limits. So all the subs that have gone nsfw in protest are just not gonna show up, unless the app is scraping the rss feed or something.

Anomander, 10 months ago

Reddit has been forcible cracking protest-NSFW subs, though. They're messaging mod teams and threatening removal and replacement for "turning a sub NSFW" or for encouraging users to submit NSFW content, if the sub wasn't NSFW to begin with.