People like having choice, it was never about saving space in phones. I like my wired bose headphones that I’ve had for 15 years and will likely last at least 15 more. Those wireless ones are the definition of planned obsolescence.
Exactly this. It is about choice. I have a wireless phone and use a wireless headphones because my big wired headphones were too bulky for commute anyways. I still like to use my nice headphones at the computer. The experience is nicer. But despite having the top of the line wireless headphones for the phone, I can see how they are not gonna last the whole phone’s life. The phone isn’t any slimmer anyway, but it’s allegedly water proof.
You can get waterproof headphone jacks, just like how usb ports are now waterproof even without the sealed flaps we used to have to deal with. Even back then the headphone jacks didn’t go under a flap because they were fine as is.
Around 2011 or so, certain Android models had mini hdmi. I even bought a mini hdmi to hdmi cable. I believe screen mirroring became common and killed it because I didn’t see it on phones after a couple of years.
Do Bose headphones not have issues with the plastic foam padding around the ears/top of the head crumbling into a million bits, or are they just easier to repair? Or is there something I’m supposed to be doing to prevent this that nobody ever told me about?
I’m so reluctant to spend much money on headphones because this keeps happening to me with less expensive brands (but still not like $20 or anything).
People like having choice, it was never about saving space in phones.
If you look at which company (apple) and the time of removal of headphone jack (around the time their wireless buds were announced), you’ll notice they removed choice so the consumer can only buy more expensive wireless buds, or many many dongles.
The “save space” is an absolute lie. The international (EU, Asia, etc) version of the iPhone has a dedicated SIM card tray. The US model? No tray, just a freakin placeholder where the international version has the SIM tray. Yes, there is a volume of space that can fit 2 headphone jacks on the US iPhone that is just empty.
Look at this iFixit video where they call apple out on it. The placeholder is huge. at ~1:17+
Also bluetooth fucking sucks for lack of a better phrase.
9/10 times it connects fine, but then every now and then it just refuses. “What? No I don’t exist” and then you have to either restart bluetooth and/or the device, and then it magically works again.
Also, I quite often get stuttering with it. Not sure if it is my phone or headphones or both at fault, but I would like having an audio jack when I am sitting at the desk
Good argument. But isn’t that always the case when asking if ppl are / aren’t into a topic? A person, who is invested in the topic is way more likely to reply. I agree with you, but I don’t know how I could’ve avoided said issue.
You can’t really avoid it in any easy way. If you could, the field of statistics would get a decent amount simpler. The only way to deal with the bias is with a survey pulled from random people, which you can’t really do easily here.
But this one will have a lot of bias, all the same.
You know I think the way you eliminate that is less by relying on the frequency of use, and more by relying on the merits of the argument being had itself. A good part of this is gonna be calculated on whether or not the tradeoff of having an aux jack is worth it. For the consumer, this is needlessly stupid and there are like no phones now that have one, you have a limited selection and that sucks, but in terms of the actual core technology I really can’t see why you wouldn’t have one. The idea that it wastes the 2cm^3^ of space is kind of a poor argument, imo, when we’ve been switching from palm sized phones with bezels and home buttons, to phones that now stick out of my sweatpants pockets and have hole punch cameras and like four cameras on the back and somehow have less features. None of the market makes a lick of sense, right now, it all seems like manufactured demand and monopoly to me.
You want engagement from a. Mobile users who b. Use headphones c. With their phone, and the type of headphone connection is the end goal.
“How often do you use headphones with your phone, and are they wired/wireless” is clonky, but gets everything out there without too much leading. People more awake than me can help more.
*I use wired $9 shitty earbuds, daily. The Bluetooth ones are nice, but I lose them and the battery life sucks, and it’s a hassle.
I think people who dislike the headphone jack must be young and not have (good) wired headphones.
Older people (older than teenagers and young adults I mean) often have a few pairs of good headphones they got over the years, and it’s a massive waste to just throw them away and buy wireless because that’s what the trends demand. And in most cases wireless won’t sound as good, because the budget needs to go to bluetooth chips, and dacs, and batteries and all that crap, instead of just focusing on audio.
According to Wikipedia, ‘The original 1⁄4 inch (6.35 mm) version descends from as early as 1877’, and it’s been an industry standard since then.
You can use it not just for headphones but as a line out, to connect all kinds of audio devices between them. You can hook up your phone to a car audio system, an old radio (if it has input, I think most do), a guitar pedal or an amplifier, a reverb or an effects unit, etc., just with the “magic” of wires.
I have very decent wired headphones, but it helped that when I bought my S21 Samsung gave me some Buds+ for free, and then I was able to get a pair of Buds Pro for $20 (likely a price error on their site) and I also have some Bose QC35 that I got with airline miles
Also when I exercise I cannot use wired at all. I upgraded to Bluetooth as soon as they were affordable
Now my wired headphones live in my Nintendo switch case
When I was a kid, headphones had the beefy one associate with guitars. The smaller ones came out when Walkmans became popular. We called them mini-plugs and you’d buy an adapter to use them with older gear.
Memories based on being born in early '70s. Possibly incorrect.
You’re correct. But you can use an adapter. Some headphones (especially more expensive ones) come with their own. And some devices (like my USB audio interface) come with a big jack for headphones, but again an adapter makes it irrelevant whether it’s a small jack or a large one.
If you’re gunna use an adapter anyway then it makes it irrelevant whether or not there’s a headphone jack in the phone. People in this thread talk about how you can’t use expensive wired headphones with your mobile devices anymore as if adapters don’t exist.
We’re not talking about the same thing here. First off a large jack to small jack adapter would be needed in rare circumstances, if you happen to use a pair of headphones that only uses a large jack with a small device like a phone, which obviously only has a small one.
That whole large jack discussion was started because of the quote from Wikipedia I posted, where they mention just how old the jack is. I’m guessing you haven’t read the rest of the comments since you brought it up?
2nd of all a jack adapter is just “wire”, it’s passive ( doesn’t have any circuitry), and doesn’t require any support.
For a dongle type of adapter that’s quite different. Software and hardware and compatibility come into play.
Lots of dongles have a DAC built into them which is separate from the phone DAC. It’s duplicating something you already have, and if your phone has a good one buit into it (which it should), the flimsy dongle most probably has a very cheap one.
I have a dongle and it only works if I plug it in before taking calls. If I already answer and then use the dongle the sound won’t work out of the headphones so it’s useless…
I have gone too far in the headphone hobby and have exited the nice middle zone where the headphone jack has value. It can’t power my headphones and my phone has no systemwide EQ so there would be no point anyway.
Some people in the headphones sub talked about using qudelix 5k to power it if you wanted mobile but at that point the jack becomes useful only for charging while listening (admittedly useful!). I don’t really think compromise free mobile listening works though, if you have good wired headphones they are fairly likely to be open back already. For those people, a midrange priced Bluetooth Focal Bathys is probably as good as investment as any other closed back for mobile.
Hence why I believe the headphone jack is for those in the middle of the pack: they have closed back wired headphones that are good enough to not want to use Bluetooth, but not headphones too difficult to power or a strong preference for EQ. Which is a ton of people to be fair. I only commented here cause you said “people who dislike the headphone jack must not have good wired headphones,” but I have several and don’t need a headphone jack in my phone. I’m aware that those in my position are a very small portion of the population and agree with most of what you said, just wanted to provide a different perspective.
Oh also, if you’re using an adapter for 1/4” to 1/8”, may as well just use a USB-C or lightning adapter. 1/4 or 2.5mm balanced and a shitload of power would actually make a phone jack useful for my case though!
There are honestly no good wireless headphones out there. Yes, in the price range ~300€ you can get some decent earbuds. But still not even close in sound quality to what you can buy for 100€ with a wire.
Best option for wireless is to grab a portable DAC/amp like the qudelix5k or fiio btr5 and plug your headphones into that.
I like good headphones but I don’t like spending good amounts of money on headphones with the built-in point of failure of a battery that will inevitably crap out after a couple years. I deal with that enough with my damn phones.
You’re on a mobile device in environments with gobs of noise.
Damn few people could tell the difference in sound quality in those situations, fewer still would care (e. g. People like you. Not to be dismissive at all - that’s your thing).
A car is 70db+. Just being outside in a city you’re probably looking at a variable noise level of what, 40-70+?
If that’s important to you, cool, do what you like. But most people are looking for something with far less quality. You don’t need that kind of quality to hear a podcast clearly, or listen to “Dance Dance Track 15”.
You don’t need that kind of quality to hear a podcast clearly, or listen to “Dance Dance Track 15”.
You don’t, but once you’ve had it, turning back and going to something more expensive that is worse, more annoying to use and will be aproaching useless in 3-5 years? For what? Like it straight up is less convenient for me because i forget to charge it and then it starts dying mid-run or mid commute.
Fair. Personally I prefer wireless, since my headphone wires break all the time due to heavy use, but I can understand, why you’d like to be able to use both.
Are these detachable wires? Because I used to kill headphones all the time tripping over their wires but since I started getting ones with the 3.5 mm jack on the headphone side that hasn’t happened since.
A decent pair can charge enough for hours in minutes. When they about to die, pop one out and into the case, let it charge until the one in your ear is dead or dying, swap them out, 10 minutes and you’re back to stereo for a few hours.
I can get 2-3 days of use out of my wireless before they absolutely need to be charged. They’re not the best sound quality out there, but they have the features I need for my situation.
Last time I tried to use wired headphones for work, the connection snapped off in the port. I’m definitely good to stay away from wired headphones for everything other than my computer.
I’m not super versed on monitors outside of stage performances, and I didn’t do acquisitions. Don’t most people who use IEM’s for standard audio use a nice driver or prefer a device with a good audio out and lossless format compatibility? I guess I kinda assumed if you cared enough to distinguish using monitors instead of earbuds you care about other factors too.
IEM is easier to type than "in-ear headphones" and has become the defacto generic term for them, just like "monitor" has become to mean any stand mount/bookshelf speaker.
Anyway, over the past few years the market has flooded with cheap and very good "IEM-s" by manufacturers like Moondrop, Truthear and others. 30€ can get you a pair that follows Harman curve quite closely and has low enough distortion to allow EQ. Generally they use 10mm dynamic drivers instead of balanced armatures, but they also have more expensive multi-way BA and DD/BA options.
In short, high quality IEM style headphones have become a commodity and you don't need to be an audiophile or muso who's willing to pay hundreds for Shure SE535-s.
For larger models, replaceable batteries would improve this situation a lot. Of course that would hurt the manufacturers’ planned obsolescence strategy.
Not so true. I use a set of “wireless” where the two ears are connected around the back of my neck. (A pair of beatx). These have 12hr battery and I listen a lot. I only kill the batteries on long ski days (the cold probably bring the battery life down a bit).
All my complaints at this point are lack of options in this mostly perfect form factor.
(Better fit in my ears, better sound, etc). This isn’t a wired/wireless problem.
This is the correct answer. It’s about having choices. I very often forget to charge my wireless when I need it and when it’s dead, all I have to do is pull my wired out since my phone has the headphone jack. And when I work, I use my wired to listen to music, because in that situation, wired is simply superior. So I will always buy a phone with a headphone jack because I don’t want a perfectly workable, harmless feature that I need to be taken away from me.
I recently switched to wireless over-the-ear headphones and overall happy. However, when it comes to earbuds - they would only be wired. Unlike my large headphones, which can be unscrewed for that, most earbuds would have trouble wen replacing the battery. And - maybe more importantly - easier to lose since they’re separate and so small.
I bought a USB-to-aux adapter because my current phone does not have a headphone jack and my vehicle doesn’t have Bluetooth. I use it literally every day, sometimes for hours. It’s utter nonsense that they are getting rid of them.
I’m aware. I’ve been through half a dozen of them and don’t want to buy another. An aux cord costs $5 and last practically forever unless you abuse them. My car has built-in Bluetooth, but it has a weird delay and randomly disconnects, mutes, or starts changing what I’m playing on my phone like a remote is pressing buttons.
I use the headphone jack every single day, both with my headphones and with an audio-in cable for my car.
I’d be lost without it.
Also, I’ve tried Bluetooth headsets and they’ve all died on me for various reasons. I want relatively high quality headphones, and whether they’re wired or wireless, good sound tends to cost more. But I don’t want to spend more on something that will die quickly, so it’s wired headphones for me.
a cheap external DAC typically sounds better and has more power than the ones built into phones with a headphone jack. If you actually care about the audio quality from your phone then a DAC is more practical.
Since you mentioned the “power” of an external DAC I’ll add that my experience has been that android will still limit the output unless you use an app that works directly with the DAC. Last time I checked the only option was paid.
Well the problem is that a DAC doesn’t have any power to it at all. What you are thinking of is an amplifier, which a lot of portable DAC units have in them, but not all of them do. For example, the DAC/AMP I have is the iFi iDSD Black Label, which has its own Amp that is controlled through an analog dial.
If your unit doesn’t have its own volume controls then it is likely just a DAC with no Amp, meaning you are limited to the power output of your source.
No - I know the difference between a DAC and an amp. The Android (or, maybe it’s just Google Pixel devices, I can’t recall) audio subsystem limits audio output. My phone max. output is about 800mV. I believe they assume all output is going to earphones and they’re trying to protect your hearing. This happens even if you’re using a USB DAC. But, there is an app called USB Audio Player PRO (the may be others) that can bypass the Android audio subsystem and send output directly to the DAC and thereby get the full DAC output - typically around 2V.
You may know the difference between a DAC and Amp, but you clearly don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I’m saying that a DAC doesn’t have its own power output. It literally takes a digital signal, and converts it to analog. In order for it to add any power to the signal, it needs to include an amplifier. Otherwise, the signal will always be a little bit weaker due to the power loss from traveling through the DAC. Most DAC units have at least a weak amplifier for this reason, but there are some units that are just a DAC. And the Amp part isn’t going to be controlling the digital volume, i.e. changing the system volume on your device. It will operate on its own volume control, so regardless of how limited the output is from your phone, it will still be made louder as it amplifies the volume independently of the phone. A unit that is just a DAC doesn’t have any way to amplify the signal it receives, so it will never be able to make it louder.
You said explicitly that the android system will limit the output of any DAC, but that is wrong on multiple counts. The android system will not limit the output of a DAC because a DAC itself just 1:1 outputs an analog signal converted from a digital source so there is nothing to limit. The android system will also not limit the output from an Amplifier because it literally is not capable of that. That’s like saying your water faucet can limit how hot your water can get when you boil it on the stove. An Amp increases the power of the signal after it has already left the phone.
Your boiling water analogy does not fit - water boils at 100°C (depending on air pressure). It’s like the digital signal - boiled/not-boiled, on/off, 1/0, etc.
The output of a DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter) is a line level analogue signal and this signal has an amplitude (voltage) that can be controlled. I’m not a software or audio engineer so I don’t understand how, but my reading and own testing supports this.
My own simple test: I have a Google Pixel 4a and an Apple USB-C DAC (dongle). If I use headphones connected to either the phone audio jack or the DAC and any “normal” music player I can listen at full volume - it’s loud, but far from uncomfortable. If I use USB Audio Player PRO and configure direct hardware access to the DAC I cannot listen at full volume - it’s too loud.
Oh cool! Another Thing. I love how many of my minor problems are solved just by buying another Thing. My home is now a perfect curation of all Things I own to fix my minor problems. Do you need a little more power from your headphone jack? Get this Thing! Keep it with you; it’s not much help after you lose it. What’s that? You don’t even listen at full volume using the jack? Don’t you understand. It sounds slightly better. You idiots won’t know headroom if came up and bit you on the face.
In short, I kinda like my built-in headphone jack.
Budget phones have them because wired earbuds or headphones are cheap: wired buds under $10. Last flight I was on gave them away for free. Harder to lose. If you’re paying £1,000+ for a phone, the you’re probably not worried about the cost of accessories. Might even put the style of no dangly wires over the functionality.
Once again not correct. Yes they will give away cheap earphones, but you can get TW earbuds for £15 easily these days. Also there are plenty of wired earphones that cost hundreds and in a few cases thousands of pounds. It’s still taking away functionality and features when you remove it.
And to address the original apple argument of oh the headphone jack is old outdated tech( from the iPhone 7 announcement). Please go look up a chord Hugo 2 dac. And tell me what the output is. Why then does a over £1,000 dac/amp have a headphone jack.
It’s a poor argument from a company that wants to sell you a bunch of dongles and airpods. Which has unfortunately mostly worked.
And don’t even get me started on the 2016 macbooks which went down so poorly due to the oh you’re just poor argument not working that they went back and added more ports on the newer ones.
I’m not poor I just want to use my £200 wired earphones with my phone without needing a dongle that’s designed to break easier then a late 2012-2016 MacBook charger.
Too entitled to understand dividing markets by cost. Aesthetics trump functionality when your phone becomes a fashion accessory.
Why would you even waste studio headphones on a device with a $0.25 DAC and no space for signal isolation? Or is that just to signal fellow audiophiles.
I do. Specifically got an older samsung that still had it.
I dont like using bluetooth headphones in the office. Random disconnects for whatever reason is not something I need happening since tunes like ‘Marvin Sease - Candylicker’ is not office appropriate.
What application are you using that doesn’t pause on Bluetooth disconnect? I’ve never had the issue of audio playing from the device when the Bluetooth cuts out
When I had one? Frequently. Especially when I traveled. My wireless earbuds would die but I had a pair of plug in earbuds I always brought as well. With my new phone, I don’t have that option, so when my wireless ones die, I’ll just sit there twiddling my thumbs.
I only use wired headphones.The annoyance of batteries, the higher prices and the much shorter lifespan makes wireless a no go for me.
You can buy some nice wired headphones and expect them to last 15+ years if taken good care of. Good luck trying to keep wireless ones for more than 5 years with a good battery life.
I know people don’t really value it these days, but to me there is great value in (stupidly) simple technology.
The more complicated a system is, the more prone it is to breakage. We have lots of areas in our life where we already rely on complicated circuits. I don’t need to add headphones to that list.
Use it every day. Yeah wireless earphones are great, but they’re far from perfect; some pairs have delays and issues with audio quality, turning on bluetooth drains my phone battery quicker, and I have enough devices which I need to maintain and recharge all the time - I can’t be doing with another one.
The only hassle you get with wired earphones is them tangling up and limiting how far you can move your head, but I’d take those over connection issues any day.
Add comment