Did they find the body to confirm the beheading. or is this the same story as the 40 beheaded babies propagandized by mass media.
Why the mess if one bullet could do a cleaner job. I don’t think they have a fetish for beheading despite all other cruelties they can be capable of.
Edit: for those who are asking why I am talking about beheading rumors because NBC Titled its video with “Beheading” and refer to Israel’s President saying: youtube.com/watch?v=ICR5ml2YPkI
Who said she was beheaded? All it says in the article is she had a severe head injury and if you watched the video of her being paraded, you can clearly see she has a head injury most likely being shot in the head.
You are all ridiculous with your dirty propaganda. “paraded, raped…” too big, like the story about beheaded babies. So, Hamas would have the time and leisure to do that under intense fucking bombing and fighting. What a joke! Israelis confirming every single jewish clichés that we heard on history channel about Nazi’s vision on them!
Between, Yocheved Lifshitz, elderly recently freed has another story.
The same people who use gaza as civilians and then blame Israel for the casualties. Their bosses are currently in Qatar, the same Qatar that has an explosion of meetings with different media mongrels during Fifa, particularly elon musk.
Imagine you have an invisible man in the sky who approves of everything you do and will make sure that when you die you go to a happy land forever. Now you understand.
I think it’s rather because Hammas produced the video with her being pressed into back of their truck in unnatural position half naked and paraded trough the Gaza streets while tens or maybe hundreds people were celebrating her humiliation . But i might be wrong. 🤷♂️
This is news because she was one of the first videos that went viral that day. And to this day there are still people denying it that she died and that she is home safe. There was even a so called interview with her mother who said she was alive. They even went so far to say the truck video was them bringing her to a hospital (ya know because you beat half naked in her underwear body with your sandals to administer first aid).
The Internet used “her being alive” as one of the first propaganda pieces to try to paint the photo that nothing happened Oct 7 and Israel are all liars.
Turns out it’s exactly as the videos made it look. Just like the woman being led into a jeep with dark drried blood all over the ass of her pants was probably bleeding from mass rape even though the Internet tried to find every excuse for their behaviors.
I think she sat in blood, but that’s just me. I’m no professor of internet study. There could have been more ass rape than blood on the ground that day for all I know.
The way I remember it is her mom said that Hamas claimed she was still alive. Not surprised it was a lie. Her mother must be even more devastated now after having that little bit of hope.
Please, add more add more, we must make the most of Hamas! Did Hamas ate her too? You know, we still have room for Israeli delirium.
You are all so ridiculous with your tabloid stories to hide the criminal acts that Israel is committing.
“A german-israeli woman dead”
“+3000 children smashed under bombings”
“yeah, but Shani Louk! and you, come about people without name and sexy photo!”
nobody here is hiding stories about the criminal acts israel is committing, and in fact a lot of thr folks talking about killing and raping random women being bad are not pro israel
do you ever have a moment of clarity between frothing over folks saying torture is bad and think ‘am i a bad person’?
More importantly, in one of the few countries with actual walls on their borders to keep out Palestinians, why were the guards missing that night and how did Hamas find out ?
Nope it ain’t, and it’s mostly sensors and cams. Guards weren’t missing, it was religious holiday and most of the IDF came back home. A lot of paragliding recreations occur often and Hamas used this opportunity to their advantage. I know these things because I know few people who work in the IDF. I’m not jewish but I live in Israel for my job. The wall is mostly fence, and only in important places it’s a wall.
I assume you know that more than half a million Palestinians cross that border every day… it’s not that strict. Although from now on it might be
I googled the wall earlier, in some places it’s an actual wall, yet its chain length with rows of bar wire in others. Doesn’t change the fact it’s one of the most patrolled borders in the world guarded by one of the world’s most advanced army. How could this happen.
Perhaps the thousands of rockets fired at Israel that night and several attacks at multiple sides at the same time on a Jewish holiday had people distracted?
i assume a lot of it is high tech and sensor based, that can all fail with hacking or bad interpretation of the data. Also, the infiltrators likely first flew over the fence and possibly disabled parts of it once they were inside to allow others to come in the conventional way.
The “500 people killed” thing isn’t actually due to Hamas but Al Jazeera: Directly after the explosion, before the dust had settled, a Health Ministry spokesperson spoke about “500 casualties”. In the context of “there are killed and wounded”. And as it was so early, and it’s a round number, obviously an estimate, and not an official number. Al Jazeera turned that into 500 killed in its English edition, and the whole fucking western media ran with it.
Now I dislike Hamas like I dislike any fascists but the Health Ministry is not just Hamas, plenty of Fatah and generally people from the PA in there, and their numbers have generally been pretty accurate (even if they don’t distinguish between civilians and combatants, they simply count the dead). Possibly not as accurate in this case though as once Al Jazeera put that number out there it’s probably hard to correct them down while Hamas’ propaganda finger of the military arm is holding an AK to your head.
Actually we aren’t sure about the rocket origin yet. Investigations are still ongoing, and some recent evidence, including more geolocated video that allowed to do a trajectory analysis through triangulation, and which tend to suggest it was launched from the Israel side. Hypothesis being it may have been a defective iron dome missile that went rogue and unfortunately dislocated and which explosive payload fell on the hospital parking.
Still, before accusing either side it would be best to wait for more proofs. Either way it is going to be considered as a major war crime, and no matter if it was intentional or not, someone has to pay for it.
Even if it was an iron dome rocket, which is not impossible; it was not targeting the hospital. It was targeting a hostile missile launch.
I also trust international orgs fatality reports more than local sources on this one.
Y’all keep talking about war crimes, but Hamas is not even distinguishing themselves from civilians which is the basis from where almost every other IHL rule stems.
What Hamas does is indeed considered as a war crime (taking the population as human shields). But Israel’s riposte is way too disproportionate.
The fight isn’t about good vs evil, it is just about two brands of the same evil, trying to stay in power by feeding the stalemate while disregarding the lives of the civilians caught in the crossfire.
They are each other’s best asset.
While i do not wholly agree with your last sentence, i do respect your balanced view. Making any war one of “good vs. evil” is dangerous a step toward dehumanizing the enemy and it only gets worse from there.
Also i agree Israel’s response has been very strong and cold, but i believe they were not left with many choices.
Things could not return to status quo with Gaza after the attack on the 7th and there was no clean option left for them. Diplomacy failed over and over for decades. Both sides share blame for the diplomatic breakdown, but Israel has no allies and many enemies in the region and must project strength to keep opportunists away.
Which isn’t a reason to be paraded half naked nor killed for the sins of the power hungry leader of both states. There is no excuse good enough to indiscriminately kill civilians.
She was paraded in the outfit she was partying in. They didn’t need to strip her she did that herself.
Also when people have a rave party on Crimea are they just innocent civilians that should be completely harmless from Ukranian attacks? Unless Israel forced her to be partying on Palestinian land why was she there?
I’m very saddened to hear about the death of this young woman. I’m also sad to hear about deaths of many, many Palestinians. I do not think it’s coincidence that Hamas decides to launch a major offensive in the midst of talks with between Saudi Arabia and Israel to normalize relations between the two after many years of relative peace. We can’t have peace in the Middle East because it doesn’t serve the ends to the major regional powers.
Both sides in this conflict are used as pawns for the political ends of others. Innocent people are those that get caught in the midst of it all. Hamas didn’t do this without a green light so as much vitriol being spilled in this thread we have to take a step back. These fights have been brewing and going on for generations. If you take the short term view much of the strife we see today is the fallout from WWII and that is used as leverage by other nefarious parties.
It’s not the Israeli people’s fault they do not have a home. It’s not the Palestinian people’s fault they do not have a home.
Some of the comments in this thread are sickening, hateful, narrow, and short-sighted.
Palestinians weren’t citizens of a nation and than got invaded by Zionist Jews someday. Israel, Gaza and Westbank (now called Palestine) were created in that area which was called Transjordan at the time. And Israelis and Palestinians come from a similar group of people who has ancestors in the area.
The influx of Jews to the area was a result of World War 2 and the exile of Jews in some of the surrounding countries.
You are seen as a “Palestine refugee” btw, when your father was a Palestine refugee. It’s not exactly a citizenship.
The area was popular for concerts and festivals for both sides of the conflict, the Gaza music scene actually made regular use of the area because it makes it less likely Hamas’ goons are going to show up and drag them off the stage for not being muslim enough.
Yeah, that’s not equal at all buddy. The IDF is commiting atrocities. Also, nobody gives a shit about Israeli civilians and millions of us are worrying about the 4th Reich.
I got downvoted and shit on just for saying the videos from 10/7 showed really fucked up shit, including Shani. Some of the crowd on lemmy is pretty fuckin gross tbh, the Fediverse isn't going to pick up with the tankies taking over over every controversial political topic.
I haven’t seen the videos (and I don’t plan to) because I don’t need to see them to know it was some horrendously fucked up shit. Just reading the articles about it was more than enough.
But Israel bombing the shit out of Gaza and blockading food, water, electricity, fuel, etc from entering Gaza is straight up crimes against humanity.
Israel is punishing every single person in the area for the crimes of Hamas.
Hamas can fuck off but I understand why they came about.
Yeah I've made it a point to not to "pick a side" which is what I am seeing people do in most conversations about the topic. I'm atheist and have no stake in either and the whole thing is just a disgusting mess. The problem comes when people justify the "eye for an eye" response that both groups are taking.
The problem comes when people justify the “eye for an eye” response that both groups are taking.
This is the all lives matter take of the middle east. Israel has killed 36x as many civilians as all pro-Palestine groups have killed Israeli civilians.
No, killing innocent civilians is never the answer no matter who has done what. And both groups are doing it. Israel can be a piece of shit for what they have done and are doing. And Hamas can be a piece of shit for what they did too, they are not mutually exclusive.
This whole topic sucks. It's like you can only have one extreme side to take instead of acknowledging fault on both sides. Meanwhile Tankies and Nazis continue to point fingers at each other, defending whichever team suits their current political agenda the most.
Hamas are terrorists that did an atrocity, Israel also is responsible for things escalating to this point, they still have a right to defend themselves, but the way they're doing it is also far from appropriate. If people cannot start to acknowledge everyone's wrongdoings, then I don't see how this area can ever reach stability. Even most politicians / countries seem to be too scared to do anything, to take a proper stance. Meanwhile there's more and more civilians dying over there.
wait til you figure out Hamas, PIJ, PLO, and Hezbollah ARE the "Palestinian" cause, and always have been, boy that's going to come as a real shock to you, after, what is it, 70 years
Not really. The Palestinian cause is about the aspiration of those people to live freely in their own land. And its not fair to club PLO with the other two that you mentioned.
We have all seen the video of her broken body being paraded through Gaza and the people spitting on her. Hamas did that and they brought death and destruction to Gaza.
so the past 50 years of the gaza strip being bombed by israel have not brought death and desctruction to gaza? that’s ignoring the constant blockades and other restrictions israel put on gaza as well.
That’s wrong though. Palestinians and Israelis both stem from ancestors from the area. You could even say that at least in Jerusalem the Palestinians came later.
Truth be told, I am not old enough to have cared about issues like this pre 2010. So what exactly do you think justifies israels behavior here? What happened before 2010 that shows that Palestine is the aggressor?
Well, fair enough, in this comment chain nobody justified Israels behavior.
I know Hamas has been hiding behind civilians and children, and Hamas are absolutely disgusting. Definitely. But I think it’s necessary to acknowledge that bombing civilians to get rid of terrorists is counterproductive. IDF is almost certainly creating more terrorists than they are killing by doing that. I’m sure some of the civilians already want to destroy Israel, but I think most of them get indoctrinated when joining Hamas after seeing how friends and family keep getting killed by IDF.
I mean, the main start of the conflict was over 70 years ago. I’m not sure if Israel really comes out looking that much better.
They unilaterally declared themselves a state and ended up expelling over 700k people from their homes. They even utilized biological warfare, poisoning wells with typhus.
While there have been crimes against humanity committed by both sides, the reason people focus on Israel is that they are in the sole position of power. Palestine has no way to barter or negotiate, and when all other forms of discourse are eliminated, then the only option is violence.
Arab nations forced hundreds of thousands of Jews out of their homes and into Israel when the Brits controlled it.
Israel accepted the UN proposal for a two state solution, giving Gaza and the West Bank to Palestine.
Palestine rejected it and launched a war against Israel with the help of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Iran in an attempt to eliminate the Jews in Israel.
Arab nations forced hundreds of thousands of Jews out of their homes and into Israel when the Brits controlled it.
Israel did not exist under British rule… are you talking about the blockade of Jerusalem in 47? I don’t think you know what you are talking about, there were only 500k Jews in all of Palestine when the British were in charge. And a lot more Palestinians were displaced during that conflict than Jews.
Israel accepted the UN proposal for a two state solution, giving Gaza and the West Bank to Palestine.
Yeah… That’s why people were upset. The Jewish population made up 1/3 of the population, and owned only 7% of the land during the mandate, but we’re given 56% of the country, which just happened to be the most valuable land.
Of course people are going to be pissed, a minority group was just awarded the majority of the country for free.
Clearly not, as he said this was an operation when the British controlled Palestine. Magic carpet happened in 49’, two years after the initial outbreak of violence.
We were discussing the initial cause of the violence, not one of its results.
lets not forget the blockade by egypt too, even jordan at one point wanted to kick out and backtrack citizenship for all descendants of palestinian refugees
Israel fed this shit with their shitty politics. You can't oppress and kill civilians, taking their homes, and generally just put everyone in some massive ghetto with 0 chances to have a better future without radicalizing people. They're definitely responsible for this as well. And Israel is the one flattening all those houses. Just look at the fucking casualties.
Your last sentence is also just projection. You just use Shani for your fucking agenda. Disgusting.
It is sadly the reality of the situation. Only someone fucked up can see that and the other videos from that day (example the slaughtered elderly at the bus stop etc) and think “Oh Hamas are the good guys.”
I think the number of people who think hamas are the good guys is infinitessimal compared to the number of people who think Israel shouldn’t be genocidal.
I think anyone everywhere would agree that Israel’s response should be appropriate to the threat, which excludes genocide.
Sadly, I think most people in the western world just swallow the narrative which is that Israel are allies, therefore the good guys, therefore they can’t be genocidal.
The western world is hardly a population majority. Do you think your statement about who is considered “good” and “bad” expands outside of the western world?
I mean after what happened it’s going to turn a lot of people dark. No different than in the states after 9/11. I legit know people that signed up just to “kill some sand you know what’s to get pay back”. That’s fucked up yes. And wrong. But hardly unexpected just like I expect citizens of Gaza to enmase celebrate the death of Jews now.
True, but the 3000 Palestinian children don’t get a whole series of articles for each individual one. They’re just a number, and apparently a meaningless one, given the ferocity of attacks by the Israeli government that has no limit when it comes to “retaliation”.
Yeah how dare people naturally gravitate towards emblemizing a specific victim who’s name and face randomly surfaces past the rest early on as a representation of the ongoing crisis!
Nobody’s stopping you from writing an article about any of those 3000 kids if you care that much that someone else got spotlight coverage.
Because the number three thousand is probably made up by Hamas. Hamas also doesn’t have a register of the young people they draw into their cause.
They also don’t first get the names of all the people living in an apartment complex before they start stockpiling guns there and start shooting rockets from there.
Because they don’t care for their names. They care for the fact that they can control international support by having a high number of civilian deaths.
Has anyone on Lemmy ever read about Hamas before a month ago? Hiding bombs and murderers behind children is what the world knows of them. It’s fact. Cute watching you all catching up on the conflict in 15 minutes.
How many people defending Israel now have read about their funding and support for Hamas? Netenyahu’s government supports the most extreme of the militant groups within Gaza purposely to keep Palestine divided. Even his supporters in Israel are aware of and critique this fact.
Yeah the “Hamas using kids as human shields” thing has been tried and true IDF propaganda for years.
Hamas operations in Gaza aren’t taking place from military sites, because THEY DO NOT EXIST. Israel will not allow them, because why the fuck would they??
Gaza is an open air prison that is incredibly densely populated. With no area ever possibly being cordoned off for military actions, where would one recommend they do these things from? You live in a prison, you work with that you have.
They’re not using human shields, they’re just launching their attacks from the only options that exist to them.
Picture that girl… pile of meat being raped to death. Picture hee mother picturing it. Call her a hot girl who’s life has no value some more. Great work humanist.
I suspect people simping for Hamas are more likely to be islamists than leftists. I'm pretty far left but absolutely cannot see Hamas as the good guys here, letting them successfully hide behind children because of international concern trolling is not a solution and will eventually lead to more deaths.
One cannot bomb Hamas without bombing children because Hamas hides behind children. If one allows this to prevent tactical bombing, it's now a tactical advantage, so expect more of it.
They are keenly aware of the reaction that the inevitable deaths of children they caused will illicit in the media.
Of course Hamas could be deposed without the bombing if Gazans did it themselves… It would be nice if they showed as much concern for their own children's safety as they expect Israel to.
It's the same reason one doesn't negotiate with terrorists. It's not because the world doesn't want the hostages returned safely, it's to discourage the taking of future hostages by removing the advantage it confers. You let them successfully hide behind children and they will hide behind even more.
Thank you for pointing this out. I am a leftist. I am an athiest/agnostic from a Muslim family. I wholeheartedly condemn what Israel has done and is doing to Palestine. That being said, fuck Hamas so much. They are no better than the Israeli government and IDF, and they would be worse if they were the ones who had the upper hand. You can support the plight of the Palestinians while condemning Hamas. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
Conservative Islam is like Conservative Christianity with nothing to hold it back from going full crusade mode. Abrahamic religions are a curse on the world.
Conservative Islam is like Conservative Christianity with nothing to hold it back from going full crusade mode. Abrahamic religions are a curse on the world.
I agree, although I'd characterize them more as extremists than conservatives. There's a lot of extremist Jews intentionally starting shit too; the way that some of the Orthodox Jews treat Palestinians is atrocious. Their flash-mob takeover of the Al-Aqsa Mosque was citied as one of the reasons for Hamas' terror attack. When one believes that they are right, that they are the chosen ones, and are literally supported by God, it's a recipe for endless conflict and atrocity with no end. Compromise becomes impossible without going against one's conception of God.
I suspect all parties would behave differently if they gave up traditional myth and realized that we only have one go through this life and it's not a prelude to something else.
Well said. Extremists is a good word, as there are religious people with conservative beliefs that still wouldn’t cross the line into violence.
I completely agree that the world would be better off if we could somehow shed the chains of harmful religions. The decline of religion seems to come about naturally with education and modernization as shown with the decline of Christianity in the modern western world. The myths start to lose their power when there is access to a bunch of evidence to the contrary of what some musty old book says.
Iran used to be a beautiful place when the people in charge there were focused on modernization instead of religion. As soon as conservative Muslims took over, the focus was put back on Islam, and the place is an authoritarian third world hellhole now.
Iran used to be a beautiful place when the people in charge there were focused on modernization instead of religion. As soon as conservative Muslims took over, the focus was put back on Islam, and the place is an authoritarian third world hellhole now.
Which is a shame, the refugees I've met from there have always been friendly and there's a lot of fascinating history and tradition and natural beauty in that part of the world that I'll probably never get to experience because of extremist hatred. If they come to their senses I would love to visit Iran one day.
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