give Palestine and Israel equal right to exist? It seems like Israel got all the benefits and Palestine none, it just keeps ceding (and getting stolen) more and more land to Israel.
Was curious what was the US’s perspective/reasoning behind not voting for it. From the article…
U.S. deputy ambassador Robert Wood told the Security Council that the veto “does not reflect opposition to Palestinian statehood but instead is an acknowledgment that it will only come from direct negotiations between the parties.”
The United States has “been very clear consistently that premature actions in New York — even with the best intentions — will not achieve statehood for the Palestinian people,” deputy State Department spokesman Vedant Patel said.
The vote in the 15-member Security Council was 12 in favor, the United States opposed and two abstentions, from the United Kingdom and Switzerland. U.S. allies France, Japan and South Korea supported the resolution.
Palestine simply doesn’t have any viable leadership. It’s ok to criticize Israel, but still not ok to criticize Palestine, so nobody is holding Palestinian leadership to account.
You got Fatah which is corrupt. You got Hamas which is corrupt and are terrorists.
If Palestine had full independence tomorrow, what kind of state would it be? A failed state. The next Yemen, Somalia, or Afghanistan.
But yeah give some legitimacy to the corrupt leaders of an occupied territory and continue to avoid looking at the reality of how bad their leadership is a little longer. That will improve things for Palestinians!
Oh right, I forgot we’re supposed to performatively care about Palestinians while not actually caring about them.
Chicken versus the egg. How can they have any viable leadership when there is no right of self-determination? When there is an occupation? When land grabs via illegal settlement building has continued for decades and decades. Israel gets admonished at best but none that hasn’t stopped the settlement building (filled by crazy right wing religious folks). When there’s a boot on your neck at all times, how do you expect a people to flourish, to have a “viable leadership”? When right wing religious zealots who believe all of Israel is theirs run amok.
This argument seems to want to shift blame on the occupied, not the occupiers. Basically another form of dehumanization that has been trodded out when it becomes harder to look past the indiscriminate, disproportionate (common theme) killing of civilians.
You’re getting downvoted, but a lot of people who only hear of the conflict from their own bubble and from what mainstream media reports do not realise that there are various factions within Palestine. So much so that there was a civil war between PLO and Hamas. PLO controls West Bank while Hamas controls Gaza from this resulting conflict.
In any case, Fatah and Hamas are untrustworthy, while the moderate PLO are neutered and often accused by ordinary Palestinians as puppet for Israel.
Palestine is not wholly represented by one government or faction. I’m afraid you’re right on this. I think the only way for there to be peace is for ordinary Israelies and Palestinians to mutually demand to their politicians to renounce violence and both accept the two-state solution.
In 2023 Israel spent $4 million in lobbying and got $4 billion in aid. We should pool together and buy ourselves some politicians, y’all. No other investment reliably returns 1000:1.
We should pool together and buy ourselves some politicians, y’all.
Traditionally, one calls that “forming a party” but unfortunately we live in a two-party system.
It should be noted that the $4B Israel got wasn’t just $4B for Israel. It was $4B for purchase of US weapons systems too Israel. And it wasn’t just Israel lobbying for this spending. You had a host of MIC lobbyists throwing in their own millions.
It should further be noted that AIPAC isn’t just doing a one-time $4M retail purchase of legislation. They’ve spend decades building up an enormous back bench of former US Congresscritters, allied staffers, political bundlers, event organizers, and religious affiliates. They injected $4M down the funnel in an 11th-hour push for the next traunch of military kick-backs that they’ve been receiving since the Bush 43 administration.
No other investment reliably returns 1000:1.
Its important to recognize that Israel provides an incredibly vital service to the US military in the form of maintaining control of the Suez Canal. Its not just a 1000:1 ROI. They’re holding Egyptian national leadership at gunpoint and we’re kicking them over some money to keep the gun loaded.
After 9/11, I remember seeing “Jews for Jesus” pamphlets being passed out by right wing Jewish folks to any person passing by. It was a cynical ploy to use the environment to further right wing Israeli religious interests. Land grabs by way of illegal settlement building has never stopped.
Of course, many, perhaps majority even, of evangelical and fundamentalist christians in America are the most ‘useful idiots’ since they believe the Rapture requires full support of Israel in order for end times Prophecy to come to fruition.
Are you sure the people passing it out were right-wing Jews and not “Messianic Jews?” Because the latter are often people who were raised as Christians, found out they had a Jewish grandmother, then became a Messianic Jew to feel closer to her.
There are also plenty of people who are third-generation Messianic Jew or whatever.
Sure, there are people who are ethnically Jewish and grew up steeped in Jewish culture and religion but one day converted to Christianity, but they aren’t the majority of the “Jews for Jesus” crowd.
It could’ve been, I can only say they wore kippah’s and had sidelocks that you’d see in orthodox communities.
(ps i am an atheist btw and respect peoples right to believe in whatever gets you some peace in this life. but also see that wherever religion and politics meet it tends to become problematic. some minority or other will suffer, not to mention loss of basic human rights, oppression, telling other people how they must live their lives, ancient based roles and kingdoms that must be re-established, who they can love, violence, bigotry, etc… and thats no bueno)
The proposal is for the West Bank government to be recognized in the UN as the State of Palestine, not Hamas. By conflating both you’re regurgitating far right talking points meant to dehumanie Palestinians and deprive them of any tool to answer to literal crimes against humanity.
They should start demonstrating their commitment to humanity by condemning Hamas, condemning the October 7 attacks, and then by pursuing the war criminals in their own ranks for a while, instead of offering support and shelter.
Your comment reminded me of one of those times Trump’s campaign manager, former attorney or something was charged with crimes, and then Trump pretended he didn’t even know the person.
I am not strongly opposed the West Bank having UN membership but they have work to do. I could be convinced they’re on their way. I haven’t seen much evidence of that.
Maybe not, but it’s important to know that voting for Trump or not voting will not make things better. It will just make things worse. Especially with regards to Palestine and Gaza.
I am somewhat amazed how much influence Israel seems to have over the United States. Even colleges and universities behaving as though they may as well be established in some autocratic, authoritarian state. It’s like a signal was sent out all over the US. The same nation that brought the world NSO has people doxxing students for supporting Palestinians. How easy it’s become to dehumanize people, women and children, babies even because the religious fervor truly has the right wing zealots believing they are “the chosen people”. The dehumanization of Palestinian people is quite disgusting.
Another reminder that religion and politics should never be allowed to mix anywhere.
Because the US is full of Christian zealots who believe that when the Jews manage to rebuild their temple, armageddon happens and they all get to go to Heaven.
They are actively cheering on WWIII and the deaths of billions over a 2000 year old work of fiction. And are neglecting to mention that this Jewish country they all support will be bombed into dust for their messiah to return.
Christian Zionists belong to a death cult and the fact that they have so much influence over an allegedly secular government is gross.
The part they don’t say out loud is that they also believe that all the Jews in the world have to live in Israel after the temple is rebuilt. Meaning expelling Jews from the U.S. and all other countries other than Israel.
It’s also full of very influential Jews. While the evangelicals are certainly one major driving force, let’s not underestimate the intra-group pressure that Jews in the west apply to one another to conform.
NSO Pegasus spyware was discovered on phones of activists, journalists, dissenters the world over some years ago. It is now likely being used by the US government which cried foul when the news first broke.
It was found to be a zero-click !!! spyware. Meaning you didn’t even have to click on something accidentally or ignorantly for it to get established on your phone. Then you were basically owned. They sold it to whoever, especially autocratic, authoritarian regimes who were using it to surely crackdown on any dissent.
Surveillance as a Service: The Global Impact of Israeli “Defense” Technologies on Privacy and Human Rights
Its not surprising, the most support outside of Nazi Germany for Nazi Germany was from the United States including the Nazis taking eugenics from field trips to the southern United States.
Source on Nazis getting the idea for eugenics from the Southern US? That sounds like Netanyahu’s insane take that the Nazis got the idea for the Holocaust from a Palestinian mufti.
Is well published and well known, eugenics are an American creation, Germany just managed to nationalize it to an astounding degree. Hell the us was still sterilizing criminals and the mentally unfit up until iirc like 1990 and I’m 1976 it came out that about 25% of the American native population were forcibly sterilized… You know 40+ yrs after WW2.
Ita not just the US, all Western countries except Ireland are basically doing whatever Israel wants. Check any larger western newspaper and none are really critical of Israel. Look at Germany for an example of how fucked they are in Europe.
Canada, Australia, Britain, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Finland, Estonia, Japan, Austria and Romania All cut UNRWA funding based purely on Israels word with zero evidence.
When will this lie stop? People never shut the fuck up about this conflict in the west. There are endless protests and the media repeats that Isreal needs to stop every day.
And yet all day, every day, on Lemmy people cry about the west not caring or writing about it or shilling for Isreal. It’s just delusional bordering on dishonest at this point.
You are conflating citizens with governments. Just because we protest doesn’t mean our governments are not sending weapons and support their way.
And the media pushes Israeli talking points and often does shit like refusing to use the word genocide, while using loaded language to make Israel seem the victim.
I am not. I meant exactly what I said and I’d thank you to not make shit up and pretend I meant something else. The US government is made up of many many people who vocalize their disagreement with Isreal and have called it a genocide.
The Associated Press, the media organization this post is from is an American non-profit based in New York. Easily half the articles run in the US are rehashed AP articles.
“Biden and his administration are doing all they can” my ass!
They’re exactly as beholden to the Israeli apartheid state as all the previous ones going back to 1948, if not MORE than many of them.
Just one example of many that the DNC is still stuck in 1992 and almost half as unresponsive to the will of the majority of the people as the literal fascists on the other side of the aisle 🤬
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