“I will no longer be complicit in genocide [in Gaza]. I am about to engage in an extreme act of protest,” the man apparently said before setting himself alight and repeatedly shouting “Free Palestine!”
It’s a bit of a beleaguered point, but it’s very telling that this will assuredly get almost no coverage on big news networks like abc, cbs, fox, etc. and virtually no coverage in the larger papers like the NYT, sure the press agencies like Reuters and the AP will cover it and then redistributors like your source will publish this, but little thought among the media class/commentariet will be given to the man who decided there was so little hope of being able to do anything through legal/electoral means to stop a genocide that he could no longer stand idly by and had to do something to protest the sheer inhumanity of what’s going on. Barely anyone probably still remembers the person who did the same thing and died in 2022 on earth day protesting inaction on climate change/destruction, that story was absolutely buried. I don’t support any kind of self harm, but doing something as drastic as this requires a pretty compelling reason, most people remember Tibetan monks doing the same thing, but the same importance was not extended to that person in 2022 and will almost definitely not be extended to this person now. I may end up being wrong, but I expect this to be out of the news cycle/discourse in days at most.
I saw he was an anarchist? Not much info that I saw but yeah I could see him having a hard time in the military. I was an anarchist when I was younger too.
Yeah, I’ve seen some discourse that things like this when done by an individual as opposed to a group effort like the Tibetan monks are primarily to take their own life and the message is secondary/additional, but I would like to think that on some level something positive will come out of someone doing something as drastic and sad as this. Dying or taking your own life is not something positive or to be glorified, but when someone feels so hopeless to the point that they turn to this, I hope it’s at least a wake up call for some people to take this seriously and not just ignore/tune out one of the biggest genocides in recent history.
I was listening to BBC World Report this morning. They made quick mention of it along with some other things happening in the conflict, then went on to introduce their "expert" who would illuminate the situation.
Their so called expert was an employee of some Israeli institute of security or whatever, and he talked on for ages with minimal push-back about how the israeli army is doing everything by the book and how "Gaza is safe for civilians, and if it's not it's the fault of Hamas".
If anyone would like a bit of an overview about the conflict I found Shaun’s Palestine video interesting (and infuriating). I also thought Shattered Dreams of Peace by Frontline was informative on the further background
(putting it here because the parent is about misinformation and lies)
most people remember Tibetan monks doing the same thing
Out of political selfimmolations there were 7 Tibetan cases, but dozens of others including many Americans. I wonder why “most people” remember particularly those. Would it be that US media wasn’t fair to report not only this one here?
Lmao that’s what i was talking about, the one on this album cover wasn’t even Tibetan, he was Thích Quảng Đức, a Vietnamese buddhist monk, selfimmolating in Saigon in 1963 as protest against US-backed South Vietnam government persecuting buddhists.
So why people like you think he was Tibetan if not for media misleading you? This was literally the most famous of public selfimmolation and the one that started it all for in XX century.
Yes, my first thought was, "Crikey! Has anyone in the united states self -immolated, before?!"
It's a horrific way to call attention to a cause. I'm sure after his best possible recovery, his military unit will rally to prosecute to add to his anguish.
The first case of an active duty serviceman self immolating in the US. Alice Herz was the first one in the US, but there have been a dozen or two since then.
Right, which I confirmed. The person you replied to asked if it had ever happened in the US before, without specifying the military service. That’s why I clarified that this is not close to the first US self immolation generally (not even the first in response to the same thing), only for active service members.
That's right. It says a lot, either way and this thread makes me feel very sad. It says a lot, and not on the actors. It's rather too much to bang out on social media but it gives one a long pause for deep reflection. It feels about like one little old self confronting the collective unconscious again.
Thank you for sharing this list, we should probably be more aware of the sacrifice these people have made. The vast majority of the Americans have done it for honorable causes.
I don’t think he’ll recover. (In fact, apparently it is already being reported that he died. But even if he hasn’t yet he will.) He was taking deep lungfuls of flame and smoke to continue his chant. He’ll have destroyed his lungs. He knew going in that he wouldn’t come out of this alive.
OMG THEY HAVE AN ARTICLE OMG THAT WAS TOTALLY MY POINT, I QUITE LITERALLY TALKED ABOUT REDISTRIBUTING THINGS FROM PRESS AGENCIES JFC, HOW CAN YOU READ WHAT I WROTE AND GET TO THIS, IS THERE ANYTHING RESIDING IN BETWEEN YOUR EARS ???
You made an objective point, then a subjective one.
The objective one: “it’s very telling that this will assuredly get almost no coverage on big news networks like abc, cbs, fox, etc.” They addressed the objective one with their links.
The subjective one cannot be addressed yet, as it’s so soon after the event. You will probably end up correct that this event will not visibly persist, but you can’t know for sure, time will tell.
They said almost no and virtually no coverege. It’s not anti-semitic to point out that western media is heavily skewed towards Israel. You’re completely delusional if you think that’s not the case.
Obviously there were going to be articles about the man who set himself on fire just as there was for the person who did it in 2022 due to the climate crisis. The point is the attention the media places on WHY it happens that is being ignored or heavily downplayed.
“gee why did he set himself on fire? must just be something people do”
it’s laughable how US media attributes self-immolation in Tibet to what must be CPC oppression, but self-immolation in the US must just be a cute little coincidence due to poor mental health
When people perform stunts (stuntmen running around engulfed in flames for movies) the most critical part, aside from extinguishing the flames as soon as is necessary, is making sure those people have oxygen. The fire will consume the oxygen that you would otherwise breathe in.
Yeah, but when you inhale super heated air, it scorches all of your alveoli?, the little fucking airbags in your lungs, and I would just figure that you would pass out very quickly from that lack of oxygen and the fact that you’re working all of your insides.
I know that speech works from the diaphragm and all that but fuck men vocal cords.
When I did my cryo training, they made very clear that you had about two steps into an oxygen free room, and you were done.
I really debated if I wanted to see this, I thought didn’t need to get what he did. Let me tell you watching it made me sick to the stomach and made it much much more real than just knowing what did in text.
He specifically livestreamed the video and sent links to the livestream and archive to various journalists and anarchist press so that the video would be shared and viewed. Its a disservice for it to be censored and weird that person also watermarked it with their @
literally the entire point behind this act is it being explicitly graphic, sharing the uncensored version quite literally goes against that. It’s almost as bad as censoring the message from the get go, except now we’re actively disrespecting his intention.
you can also do what this post and basically every article did, and then post a single frame of the video. No blurring needed, no graphic content explicitly posted.
as he was engulfed in flames they started yelling at him to get down on the ground. They even drew their guns on the burning man before someone pushed them to get fire extinguishers to extinguish the fire.
why do we teach everyone to only pull your gun if you’re going to kill someone unless you’re a police – then just pull it any time you’re worried or confused!
I read that and was like “of fucking course they did.” Honestly the next paragraph makes it even worse, IMO.
Authorities were heard asking the man – “May I help you, sir?” – at first but as soon as he was engulfed in flames they started yelling at him to get down on the ground. They even drew their guns on the burning man before someone pushed them to get fire extinguishers to extinguish the fire.
Threats of physical violence are the only tool they have in their toolbox. THE ONLY tool.
Sheriff’s deputies from Orange County fatally shot the man, 42-year-old Kurt Reinhold, amid an altercation in September in San Clemente, California.
The video, released on Thursday last week, shows two sheriff’s deputies considering whether or not to charge Reinhold with jaywalking, before tackling him to the floor.
Reports say the sheriff’s deputies were on patrol and were assigned to the homeless outreach team, when the shooting took place.
One of the deputies says in the video, “Watch this, he’s going to jaywalk,” before asking Reinhold: "Are you going to stop or are we going to have to make you stop?
"Jaywalking here? That’s ridiculous,” Reinhold adds.
Get on the ground! GET ON THE FUCKING GROUND, NOW!!!
Okay, now roll! ROLL OVER!!! Good, now the other way!! KEEP ROLLING WHERE I CAN SEE YOU!!!
“Officer Johnson’s quick actions saved the man’s life today,” said the Commissioner. “We have extensive firearm training for our officers and Johnson was able to apply what he learned to a firebody incident.”
Whoever keeps throwing in the shit about law enforcement in these stories, which I think was actually a security officer for the embassy, drawing a gun, is doing a pretty good job of distracting from the main issue of what this guy lit himself on fire and died for. Doing a much better job than all the whinging about how he was mentally ill, and how this won’t change anything, and how there’s no clear cause, that mainstream news outlets are doing when they cover this type of stuff, if they cover it at all.
I would also like to kind of point out here, that “this won’t change anything, this guy was mentally ill, he killed himself for nothing”, is really only true if you decide it to be true. We get to decide whether or not this motivates us to do something or not. We get to decide whether or not we let this affect us. Whether or not we do something, to make sure this doesn’t happen again, you know? And that’s mostly, in my mind, the purpose of this kind of protest.
Maybe it makes the institutions think about what they’re doing, probably not, since, if they were gonna think that, they should’ve probably thought that about the 20,000 or so palestinians that have been killed. This protest is mostly engineered to get you mad, and sad, and to make you, the viewer, think about why this is happening, and think about what you can do to stop it. Not just deflecting immediately to whether or not it was effective, because by doing so, you let it not be as effective.
Brings to mind the discourse against, really any form of protest that I’ve seen. You could take the george floyd protests, for example. So, sure, the government throws in agent provocateurs, in order to turn what would otherwise be peaceful protests, which would shut down any traffic into and out of the city, and would choke off any economic activity (puts pressure on businesses, utilities, puts pressure on local government, which needs to please these people who don’t really care about the protest but want things to go back to normal).
But by doing so, right, by causing those passive forms of damage, but also by causing active forms of damage, say, burning a big box store down, right, the public showcases that, if a certain legal decision to, say, let derek chauvin off, occurs, then there will be potentially more protests and more destruction, which provides great incentive against that decision occurring.
Now, in this case, there’s not as clear of a process, because there’s not as clear of repercussions if they decide to do nothing. About the only thing that might happen is that this might happen again, which, might, by some process of media coverage, put enough pressure on politicians to cause this to stop, if it becomes a political issue. The same thing is happening with mass shootings, which aren’t a greatly impacting issue, by the numbers, right, they’re much less than that of road deaths, heart disease, other forms of gun violence.
But they are so horrifying to the american public and to really anyone of moral conscience, that they should serve as a clear marker that something is wrong, and something needs to change. Serial killers create a similar effect. It’s almost like a kind of terrorism, using that word without judgement, here. That’s the power of these protests. We’ve already seen it spread across a bunch of news media, even though it’s being reported about as poorly as you’d expect.
I’m not particularly sure that repeat incidents would do any good, and I think I’d generally be opposed to that, as should anyone, but, an instance of self-immolation is what caused the arab spring. This sort of thing isn’t ineffective, I think it does a disservice to aaron bushnell to say otherwise.
If you want to stop this sort of thing from occurring in the first place, you should really try to understand why it was happening, instead of brushing it aside.
While this man is brave and all (I wouldn’t have burnt myself), what does this achieve? I doubt authorities care a lot. And it’s not like visibility over this situation isn’t there.
All the terrorists surely will experience much worse. You will be shot, of course, while editing your dipshit hitlerite nonsense yet not bothering to capitalize “I.”
The people fighting to defend Palestinians from their imminent ethnic cleansing are a “cancer”, but the same is not said for the occupying nation committing the cleansing.
Hamas and Israel are two sides of the same coin. Hamas knew exactly what the demented Israeli government would do, and they knew it would bring sympathy to their cause. Israel walked into the trap because they are also consumed with ethnic hatred. There is plenty of evidence that Israel even supported Hamas just to get them an excuse for a genocide.
Unfortunately, it’s not just the government. There are mobs preventing aid from getting in, and almost half the country supports what’s happening in Gaza.
True. And it’s also true that some Palestinians are allied with the Hamas terrorists. Also unfortunate. The victims are Israeli and Palestinian civilians.
I hope it changes what we do. If he is this brave, we can be a little braver in organizing a movement to stop our governments from supporting Israel, at any cost.
having viewed the video now, i initially found myself surprised i was not more horrified. my best guess as to why is this - what seemed most notable to me was his apparent sanity and intentionality in making this choice. he chose the where and when of his death and intended it to matter.
He stopped feeling pain because shock set in about 30 seconds into it, I could get more graphic but that’s about how long it took for his eyes to get to fucked up to close them.
Ugh, I hadn’t even noticed the comments until you mentioned it. I avoid the comments sections on most “news” sites because they’re almost universally dumpster fires if they’re not properly moderated.
Edit: although Giant Meteor 2024 definitely sounds like a winning ticket.
The comments on the video are actually more horrifying than the video itself. How can a human watch another human suffer like this and be happy/laugh about it? They’re wishing that others would do the same just because they think differently from them? Do we even have any hope left in humanity anymore?
Israelis blocking aid trucks to Gaza at the Karm Abu Salem crossing, hold a dance party as millions of Palestinians face death, starvation and disease due to lack of food, clean water, and medical supplies and Israel’s relentless military bombardment.
I wish Israel was actually killing those terrorists you’re speaking of. More than 60% of those are children. They haven’t killed that many Hamas members. This is ethnic cleansing. It’s a genocide. I don’t know why the mod removed this comment. Let people speak their minds so we know who’s an actual human being and who isn’t.
I try not to let myself get affected by crazy anonymous comments on the internet. I definitely avoid thinking that they’re any kind of majority. I figure that those comments come from a minority of people who are either really messed up, have an ulterior motive, or whatever variety of atypical motivation. If nothing else, it’s better for my mental health to think this way.
I guess this part of the reactions to this video illustrates the confusion that people have about how it feels to be in that situation. I’m confused that people are unable to imagine it how chaotic the situation might be. We have the benefit of knowing how it unfolded, but what the police officers knew is what they were briefed on that morning (most probably threats against the embassy) and the exact situation they are in.
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