silverpill

silverpill, 2 months ago

@manyfold

A couple of things that stand out:

>Servers that do not support the 3dModel object type will reject the Activity; in this case, the 3dModel will be sent as a Link instead, containing the canonical URL of the model’s web page, and the 3D preview will not be included.

Alternatively, you can send same objects to everyone but make sure that they have content and attributedTo properties. This will allow other platforms to display them as posts even if they don't know about the 3dModel type

>Our Actor objects are just as defined in the ActivityPub standard; they are mapped to our instance Users.
>Only activities from actual real users of an instance are federated

It's better to use standard types for actors. In your case Person seems to be appropriate.

silverpill, 2 months ago

@manyfold I think property-based interop is often better than type-based interop and that the former should be more popular among developers. It is easier to design new applications this way. Unfortunately, today many servers would refuse to process objects of unknown types, even if all properties needed for conversion are present. You can see how different objects are processed in this table:

https://funfedi.dev/support_tables/generated/object_types/

(made by @helge)

Mastodon is particularly restrictive. There's an open issue though: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/24079

silverpill, 2 months ago

@manyfold @helge The choice of type depends on your priorities. Note is supported by Mastodon and other popular implementations, Document is only supported by some. Custom type will likely be rejected by almost everyone, but I think your use case justifies a new type, and generally property-based interop is worth pursuing because it will benefit everyone.

silverpill, 2 months ago

@smallcircles @helge @manyfold

For domain-specific projects like Manyfold - yes, it's pragmatism vs best practice. You get better interop if you choose Note.

For general purpose implementations, it's both (and I consider microblogging services general purpose, similar to RSS feed readers). Property based approach works really well for processing incoming Create activities. If object is attributed to an actor and has content, microblogging application should display it as a post, I don't see any reason to do otherwise.

In other situations, however, type based approach is preferable: activities, tags, attachments.

silverpill, 2 months ago

@dcc @gabriel Can't join UN if you don't own land and slaves.

silverpill, 2 months ago

@alex You may want to keep actor keys if you plan to support FEP-ef61.

silverpill, 2 months ago

@alex I hate rustup. But otherwise Rust feels like a real breakthrough and I don't want to use anything else anymore. Even for frontend development, although frameworks that exist today look immature, I think I'll wait a couple of years before switching.

silverpill, 2 months ago

@julian I sent a Follow activity and received this Accept activity:

{
  "@context": "https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams",
  "actor": "https://community.nodebb.org/uid/2",
  "object": {
    "actor": "https://mitra.social/users/silverpill",
    "type": "Follow"
  },
  "type": "Accept"
}

It doesn't specify what activity has been accepted (the id field is missing).

cc @julian

silverpill, 2 months ago

@julian Actually I can see this reply, the Create activity was processed without errors

My server responds to deliveries with 202 Accepted, not 200 OK, perhaps this is interpreted as error? I don't know what else could

silverpill, 2 months ago

@gabriel

>Webtorrent has been around for a while, and torrents have been around since 2008.

They have been around since early 00s. According to Wikipedia BitTorrent was founded in 2001, TPB in 2003

silverpill, 3 months ago

@arcanicanis @liaizon Someone is already working on XMPP+MLS: https://github.com/bifurcation/ietf-mimi-protocol/issues/40#issuecomment-1960095594

silverpill, 3 months ago

@liaizon @arcanicanis I've seen references to MLS in Project Gimli documentation (by @laxla)

@helge was doing some research as well: https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fediverse-ideas/issues/3

silverpill, 3 months ago

@arcanicanis @lanodan @Johann150

>Essentially with FEPs, it feels almost like something that should be treated like trying to get a bill through Congress. “Hey, I’ve got this new proposal, I’ve talked to X and Y project, and they seem onboard, can I count on your support too? Is there any feedback you have on this idea?”

I think this is a correct approach. Not sure about other authors, but for me each proposal is a mini-project, not something that you can write and forget about. Requires a lot of work, but this is exactly how standards in decentralized network should be developed.

silverpill, 3 months ago

@grunfink @gyptazy @tetra quoteUrl is a non-standard property, but widely supported. The proposed standard is FEP-e232, though not everyone is happy with it and mastodon developers are working on an alternate proposal:

https://oisaur.com/users/renchap/statuses/111925462223450502

silverpill, 2 months ago

@p @lanodan @NEETzsche @graf @sjw @karolat @amerika @Moon

>This is the issue with ActivityPub; have you seen how much shit they try to model? It's a bunch of byzantine structure without a basis in any events that might justify the complication, it's the type of thing that could only come out of the mind of a Mastodon user. They could remove about 95% of the things that they fanfictioned into an activity stream, add some generality instead of trying to anticipate use-cases that will not ever come up for any reason.

True, it's under-utilized, but I think the majority of AS types and properties found their way into applications (you just need to look outside of the micro-blogging bubble). ActivityPub is like HTML, but for modeling processes. Developers will be over-using <div> and Note, but when a variety of building blocks is available it's easier to try out new ideas, and you may start seeing things that were not anticipated by spec authors at all. ActivityPub could be much more than a protocol for "social web".

So you absolutely should experiment with combinations of objects. We need more of that. And I think this is something that would never come out of the mind of a Mastodon user who sees everything as a Note with 500 characters of content.

silverpill, 2 months ago

@p @lanodan @NEETzsche @graf @sjw @karolat @amerika @Moon

Let's look at activities

Accept, Add, Announce, Block, Create, Delete, Flag, Follow, Like, Move, Reject, Remove, Undo, Update are widespread, used by Mastodon, Pleroma etc
Dislike used by Lemmy
Arrive, Leave, Invite, Join, TentativeReject, TentativeAccept are used by Streams (at least according to the docs)
Offer used by Mitra
View used by PeerTube
The only activities I've never seen are Ignore, Listen, Question, Read and Travel

silverpill, 3 months ago

@Hyolobrika @arcanicanis @adiz But the list is hidden somewhere in the settings, right? The majority of users will use hosted clients and never bother with relay management.

This is a well-known failure mode of web3 protocols: underlying infrastructure gets abstracted away and people flock to the most feature-rich client. I know Alex is trying to fix that, but I don't think his solution will be popular.