Would you like to see footage of it? I don’t have the energy but it doesn’t take long to find direct evidence of this happening, numerous times for years. The IDF purposely kills children. In one documented instance they even tied a Palestinian child to the hood of their vehicle as a shield. It sounds comically absurd and evil but this is what we know of.
Yes I rememeber the kid they tied to the car. He didn’t die though. The practice was outlawed by the Israeli Supreme Court. Hamas still using entire cities as human shields unfortunately. I’m not real concerned about the ~25 documented cases of Israeli’s doing it.
It’s the report of snipers just sniping four year old kids that I find unbelievable, and don’t believe.
Dude. Ive seen it? Like with my eyes while my roommate was browsing his feed? And he’s not even a super geopolitics kinda guy.
Ive read their official shit. How many sources from their own government, official spokespeople, generals, and cabinet level staff, saying ‘we are doing a genocide, our strategy is warcrimes x y and z’ would it take to convince you? Give me a number, and I’ll provide links.
The IDF has killed more people than Hamas has militants, mostly women and children. Precision targetted aid vehicles multiple times. The bodies of children shot by sniper fire have been examined and confirmed several times even before this escalation. If you are still so deluded by propaganda to say that Hamas is using human shields then there is no hope of discussion. I pray you go to Gaza yourself to witness hell.
There are zero confirmed reports of snipers killing little kids. How does glancing at a body determine if a shot was fired by a sniper rifle or a ricochet stray bullet from a firefight four blocks away? Have you seen what a sniper rifle does to a body? Doesn’t leave much to examine. Doesn’t look much different from a hundred other kinds of traumatic injuries, especially without an autopsy.
There are reports. All kinds of reports. A lot of them are third and fourth hand. Virtually all of them are unverified.
By my dude, building five hundred miles of tunnels in an area only 25 miles wide is literally using the entire area above the tunnels as human shields.
This is a good example of anti semitism. Hamas uses 2.5 million people as a human shield and that’s perfectly fine with you. They get a pass because the news makes you sad. But not Israel. They used twenty five people as human shields and in your mind that’s a war crime. That double standard doesn’t make any sense, unless of course you give Hamas a pass because they are fielding soldiers to kill Jews. Seems kind of like that’s the case. I mean, it’s a very stark and obvious double standard.
There are reports of 500 miles of tunnels and Hamas using people as sheild.
Idf showing 2 tunnels and claiming 500 miles is just as valid as showing 300 deaths and claiming genocide. If you can trust the first then trust the second too.
There’s one way to stop them. Treat them like we should have treated Nazi high command after the war.
If we do decide to leave some alive, do not let them leave Palestine, ever, under any conditions. Do not let them own property. Do not let them hold management positions. Let them live only on the charity of the Palestinian people, and be allowed to die if it is not forthcoming.
First one is a 56 second TikTok video with no credible reporting attached to it. Just the bald statements of someone in social media and some video clips that do not show any gunfire whatsoever. Hardly proves the kid was intentionally sniped. Is this what you accept as credible evidence of something? Also, like, Al Jazeera? Qatari state media with no credibility when it comes to Gaza. They followed none of the usual standards of journalistic integrity. Very clear state sponsored agenda. Obviously they are exaggerating and serving up the most scandalous, unverified “reports” and portraying them as fact. Next.
Second link, another Al Jazeera, this one is a third hand report that does not have anything to do with your claim that Israel is sniping kids. Even giving you an assumption that every fact alleged is true, at best it shows that the IDF shot a car that happened to have a kid in it. Obviously there are cars all over the place in Gaza, and so the IDF clearly isn’t just going in and lighting up any car that they see. Perhaps this car was driving toward the tank that shot it? It is not proof that Israel knowingly targeting a kid, and it has nothing to do with snipers.
Third link, MEMo this time, also Qatari state media, a 15 second clip with a bald allegation that the kid’s hand got shot by a sniper. Nothing in this link doesn’t prove that the claim isn’t entirely made up by Qatari State media and slapped onto a 15 second clip of a kid with a blurred out hand. You really accept that as proof that the IDF intentionally sniped this kid? How can the kid or the doctor or anyone seeing this know it was sniper fire and not a ricochet, or a piece of shrapnel and not even a bullet?
Fourth link, now jumping over to Egyptian state media. Still liars but with different motives. At least in this one they concede the kid was trespassing in a secured military area. The description doesn’t sound like sniper fire though, sounds like automatic rifles. That’s a far stretch from lining up right on a kid and blasting for no reason.
Fifth one, sounds legit even after sorting through the the extra innuendo and looking at the reported facts. Should be investigated. The tenor of your allegation is that Israeli snipers are literally just out plinking kids. This kid was on top of a building near a firefight and an active special forces raid, watching it go down. Maybe they thought he had a weapon or was acting as a spotter. If the special forces, trained sniper plinked a kid without following rules of engagement, the sniper should spend the rest of their life in a military prison. But I think Netanyahu is like Trump, promotes people who would let this guy off, like that sniper Trump pardoned
“Children account for more than one in three of the more than 32,000 people killed in Israel’s months-long assault on Gaza, according to the Palestinian health ministry. Tens of thousands more young people have suffered severe injuries, including amputations.”
And, again, not new. Israel has been doing this for DECADES.
“Israeli and foreign human rights groups have documented a long history of snipers firing on unarmed Palestinians, including children, in Gaza and the West Bank.”
Doing what for decades? You provided like seven links. I looked at five, the first four of them were entirely bullshit that failed to support your claim. The fifth one proved half your claim and not the controversial half.
If you start sorting through all the bullshit instead of reposting it, it’s very obvious who wants the violence to continue and who does not.
Yeah, sometimes. Kids die in a warzones, especially at this unprecedented level where the non-uniformed fighting force of a criminal enterprise masquerading as a government uses entire cities as human shields, those co-lateral deaths are different in kind to trained sharpshooters of a uniformed army wantonly shooting children, directly (and getting away with it). Blame for every kid rests with Gaza’s leadership, who put their own people and families in harms way, even the aid truck. What was October 7 if not an invitation to food aid trucks and their crews to come on out to a warzone, where negligence and war crimes–as well as the how-ever-many years of martial law the Hamas holdouts force upon Gaza during reconstruction and reconstitution–are exactly the sort of foreseeable harm and casualty that make starting or prolonging war so atrocious for humanity in the first place?
And I don’t give Israel one pass on legit war crime just because atrocity is foreseeable, but like c’mon: 4.5 out of your first 5 pieces of evidence for your claim of Israel sniping kids utterly fell apart under a level of scrutiny mundane to basic media literacy. Doesn’t that give you pause to think maybe some of the other views that Qatari state media keep validating for you might be equally misinformed?
There have been actual independent autospies done, I don’t mean a quick glance at a body. And I would build tunnels too if my neighbor had a history of bombing me and seizing my terrority.
Every non-state militant group is claimed to use the civilian population as human shields. This simply isn’t true, it’s rhetoric to justify the bombing because it’s simpler than fighting on the ground. In assymetric warfare a resistance group has no choice but to be active in the place they are stuck at. Even if they were using human shields, it shows the IDF is heartless because they have no concern for any civilian deaths, including Israeli hostages.
It’s like if a bank robber took a hostage and a cop just blasted through them, killing half the bank. That would be horrific and unnecessary murder.
They could, I don’t know, surrender, release the hostages, call for elections, etc., maybe have even slight tolerance to other cultures and try participating in trade? Nobody made Gaza put such short sighted leadership in charge. They don’t have to choose to be isolated theocratic extremists with a singular purpose of ridding the holy land of infidels, labeled by all of the free world as a terrorist organization. There’d be peace in Gaza tomorrow if Hamas gave themselves up today. Even Japan eventually surrendered.
If Hamas wasn’t there, an even more effective group would emerge to fight Israel. The offensive on Oct 7th was by a coalition of groups. You say no one made Gaza put them in charge, but Israel has spent millions propping up Hamas. They were chosen by Israel specifically because of their unpalatable extremism. Israel has supported Hamas materially while taking steps to thwart other groups. Israel has used all avenues possible for years to create the situation we see now.
Sounds like they had good reason to prop up Hamas at times to consolidate the most insane, most extreme religious ideologues, and it seems obvious that’s the way to deal with such intellectual contagions. Like what is it you think Hamas believes in, as far as social order, jurisprudence, and justice? These are actual religious fascists who what to cleanse their holy land of infidels so that a few men can rule as absolute theocratic dictators whose ideas of law, morality, and human rights change with the wind, and they think that this is the actual future in store for them because God has chosen so.
I haven’t looked at your post history but I’m virtually certain that you are lucky Israel and Egypt would prevent you from crossing Gaza’s border, because Hamas would almost certainly kill you for your opinions on government, like immediately.
What tf does it matter what they believe when there is an ongoing slaughter of thousands of people? Palestine is more than Hamas. You say Hamas is evil but it’s a good thing Israel put them in place? You are seriously heartless. I pray Israel is destroyed. According to your logic, it would be justified to kill every other Israeli at random to stop religious extremists in their government.
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to imply you believe that, but you said it sounded like Israel had good reason to prop them up, and you didn’t deny that Israeli policies allowed Hamas to take power in Gaza.
I’m sorry I called you heartless also, this is obviously a heated topic so I might take it a bit seriously, I don’t know you though so I apologize, I don’t assume anyone is heartless and it’s a rude thing to say.
Don’t apologize to @JustZ. He is a genocide denier who is oksy with dehumanizing Palestinians and denied any Israeli atrocities by calling them “just reports”. If you prove him wrong, he will say that you “got tricked”.
In my eyes he is just a racist.
Reporting some of his nonsense works but he only gets temp bans and then jumps right back into the quagmire of his own words.
True I shouldn’t have apologized ha, I felt like I was being a bit harsh and don’t like to make assumptions, but I hadn’t looked through their posts or argued with them too much. I should know better. If anyone is doubting what’s happening now it’s not worth trying to argue.
I find it so pathetic… he thinks he is the one who is “awakened” and we are all jusy blind. I’m sure it brings him some kind of satisfaction thinking he is smarter than everyone else while cheering for the literal mass killing of school children and and piles of innocent adults now rendered to dead decaying bodies.
This guy has been spouting genocide justification in other threads as well, they’re a lost cause. They’ve written essays about how all Palestinians are Hamas and should all be wiped out, denying that starvation is even happening, etc. Good luck trying to save this one!
That makes sense, I doubt I’ll convince many people I argue with directly about anything, but I feel compelled to respond to Israeli apologia mostly for lurkers that might doubt the heinousness of the IDF, and to let anyone else know it won’t go unchallenged, it’s the very least I can do to defend the honor of the people being massacred. Obviously there is much more needed to be done.
I respect the effort. I feel like these conversations are many drops but are creating a collective tidal wave, I just find the concept of defending mass murder over learning something new is such an alien concept to me like I can’t have conversations with people who are so bad faith, like, to a point where its homicidal. It’s scary.
Someone said a revolution is a series of sparks that create a fire, I feel hopeful that even small things like helping someone see the truth of a situation can help. But yeah it can be baffling the perspectives people have, it’s hard to believe they aren’t a paid shill or something sometimes. Also In a way I see arguing with views so opposed to mine as a way to ensure my own beliefs are solidly supported.
The IDF have been demolishing residential buildings after seizing them. The IDF destroyed medical equipment, supplies and set fires on floors of al-Shifa hospital after raiding it. They target journalists in their home and kill their entire families with air strikes. Can you tell me the ‘good reason’ for these acts? What reason do you have for supporting atrocities like what Israel has been doing for years?
Then why do they all post videos of them doing kitschy shit while shooting children on all their social media feeds?
Do you admit that if it was real, the correct course of action would be to turn every inch of ground the Palestinians don’t want preserved to fucking glass, and kill any scum that run for the border? To just bomb until nothing moves, then send in crews to clean up anything hiding underground?
That if it was real, and they felt like they were losing, one could expect they would shift resources away from defense to try and finish the extermination, and feel noble about it?
Yeah some of the accounts in these link/articles are the same accounts of the ones linked above by Jordan. You can’t tell without taking notes if you’re reading 10 accounts of 10 kids or like in this thread 10 accounts of four or five kids, and they all just cite to each other.
The video you linked is sourced entirely from Al Jazeera reports of “reports.” Same self interested reports that all say no Hamas fighters have ever been killed, no buildings have tunnels under them, nobody fired any rockets from the area, and all dead kids were sniped in cold blood. An an obviously incredible, broken record.
Listen to how a large portion (obviously not all) Israelis talk about Palestinians. They genuinely do not view them as humans and certainly do not value their lives. They speak of the ongoing genocide with gleeful anticipation. People will literally go to the border to taunt Palestinian parents who’ve lost their children or the orphans themselves.
They’re not shooting a 4 year old kid, they’re simply shooting another “worthless” Palestinian. This way of thinking was and is specifically crafted to enable almost every genocide that has ever happened.
No, they are people. Ignorant, hateful, and actively supporting a genocide, but people nonetheless. My comment was explicitly calling out and criticizing the impulse to dehumanize the “enemy”, real or imagined. Thinking of Zionist Israelis or Nazis as less than human not only perpetuates the mindset that allows these groups to carry out genocide, but at the same time denies how easy it is for average people to fall into such traps.
It leads to thought processes similar to “If you have to be less than human to support a genocide, then obviously what I support can’t be genocide because I am definitely a human.”
And I’m definitely not one of those “oh, we just have to talk to these hateful ignorant perpetuators of genocide because they simply don’t understand why they’re wrong”. I’m of the opinion that violence is absolutely necessary to uphold equality if the situation has been left to get as bad as it has. I’m mostly just railing against the idea that people who support genocide are somehow less human because of that hatred.
They will not stop until they’re killed, they’ll say it themselves if you ask them.
Theres nothing else to them but the killing, and things that support the killing-I looked in my own conversations with them, and asking some refugees-not palestinian refugees, but queer kids they threw away like trash, because of course they fucking do that, if there was anything worth keeping, anything they missed from ‘home’, and it was always only the ancient stuff and the Palestinian stuff. Even I miss things about the places I’m from.
And every fucking one of them knows. They’re so obsessively about the genocide. Its like once the topic comes up, there’s nothing else to them. Because there’s not.
They leave no other out, and I think all the things that make ‘genocide’ bad don’t apply here. Destroying a culture-either you think they’re Jewish, like they claim, and Jewish culture in the entire rest of the world keeps on ticking, or youve talked to one and know they’re disgusting goblin monsters who have no culture. Nothing is lost. killing innocents- but there are no innocents. Every one of them over the age of like 14 is guilty, and irredeemable. just killing shit tons of stuff, usually people. Sometimes not-buffalo for example but this is going to happen anyway, and they’re not going to stop killing, so youre not choosing that killing happens; youre doing the trolley problem. And I’m of the opinion that oppressor lives are worth less than shit-at least shit makes good fertilizer. there’s no point except this time there would be. There are people who need saving. People who have been discarded by the world too many fucking times, and I think letting them keep getting thrown away because we’re too precious about their oppressors is fucking monstrous.
Except it gets worse. Because cultural genocide is, by lemkin’s original definition if not the UN convention; still genocide; taking away the things that enable their culture to exist and reproduce itself would be committing a genocide, but genocide is their entire culture (watch what happens when they’re finished with Palestine), so even completely peacefully stopping the genocide, lets say proving we’re in a simulation, doing a breakout attack, getting root, and disabling PvP flags for the whole middle east, would be a genocide of the kapostanis. I genuinely cannot imagine how they would handle it. Mass suicide? Raiding africa for slaves? It would certainly not be fun to watch.
Given that I don’t know we’re in a simulation, I have no idea how to do a breakout attack on the ten year old computer I’m sitting in front if, and that anything you do to stop the genocide of the Palestinians would completely destroy ‘Israeli’ culture, I’m happy to just see them all dead. They chose to be this. And they’re kind of literally Nazis. If grandpa and video ganes taught me one lesson: killing Nazis is always good, and if history has taught me one lesson, its that we always let too many of them live after, and they fuck everything up for decades.
If any of them don’t want to be genocided, they could just leave, or if you think they’re still human, stop actively committing genocide at any point. But they don’t do that. They get offended if you tell them they could.
Yeah, I agree with everything you just said, but make no mistake, the monsters committing genocide are still human beings. Denying that blurs the line of the purpose of violence done against them and makes it difficult to understand that we must constantly be vigilant against rhetoric and propaganda that advocates for genocide as it is scarily easy for people to fall into patterns of thinking that can justify genocide.
It is irresponsible to say that, because they are actively committing genocide against a population, they are no longer human beings and that is why they deserve violence. It’s an unnecessary extra step that opens the door for the very same genocidal thinking. They are people who have engaged in genocide with no signs of slowing down or stopping, and for that one reason alone, deserve violence until their threat is quashed. That is enough for me; I see no reason or benefit to dehumanize them to justify righteous violence.
I think being biologically human is not morally important to me. You could clone my own muscle tissue(assuming you find any) and I would have no objection to trying it on a bun. Nor to you making a fleshlight and fucking it; you do you.
These things… There’s nothing to them but violence. And that’s important to remember; they can’t be negotiated with, because there’s nothing else they want, nothing else they are. They want to kill rape mutilate and ruin, and they won’t stop til they’re dead. This isnt me being a bigot; they’ll tell you that them fucking selves! They’re really fucking consistent about it! There is no diplomatic option, and no surrender they offer could be trusted, if they’re even still capable of surrender.
Even if you could prove we live in a simulation, perform a breakout attack, and disable PvP flags for the middle east, a mavical perfect solution that instantly stops the bloodshed with no threats or coercion; you would still be comitting genocide on the kapostanis, in the same way exterminating the buffalo was a genocide of the plains tribes of north america. More so, maybe. Their entire culture, and its modes of cultural reproduction (killing and raping and generally thinking of new ways to be awful towards Palestinians, importing settlers to stolen land, etc) would be destroyed. A people would he undone. Until they just decided to fucking do slave raids into Africa or whatever shit. And if they’re so Fucking vile that they do paradox soft tolerance on stopping a Fucking genocide, I don’t think preserving their lives merits much thought.
I think they need to be killed (are we in a simulation? Can you un-pvp an area?), and if we’re going to be doing genocide (by stopping then from doing a genocide), i cabt think of any way to do it but killing them (fwiw, the head of MSF agrees). And I think you’re making it harder for the angry 19 year olds who are going to have to pull the triggers. Those kids don’t need more PTSD than they’re already gonna get from this, y’know?
Plus by insisting they’re human, youre leaving more room for their bad faith bullshit and appropriation of (all) Jewishness, which could get real people killed, and not just by delaying an end to their genocide. People are going to die because of this shit, Human people, all over the world, who are at worst wrong and kind of shitty about this, and at best doing their damdest to stop it, and in every case don’t deserve to fucking die. You’re increasing the potential for splash damage and innocent lives to be lost by calling kapostani’s human.
I’d love if there were a solution other than violence. Violence fucking sucks. Fuck, aside from the human costb there are no green wars, you know? The climate does not need this shit, I really wish they could and would just Fucking Stop.
But talk to one. They’ll tell you themselves; can’t stop won’t stop. So its harm reduction time. And I don’t cry over spilled Nazi. Neither should you.
This is becoming frustrating. We are on the same page that violence is the only answer; I’m only insisting that we understand that the violence has to be done against our fellow humans. It is a tragedy, but one that must be enacted because, as you say, there is no negotiation to be had here.
Denying their humanity weakens the claim of righteousness and, moreso than enabling room for their bad faith bullshit, directly feeds into their bad faith claims of antisemitism as dehumanizing them removes genocide from the argument and all your left with is killing animals/barbarians/evil monsters. I don’t know about you, but that argument is wholly unconvincing to me. You can certainly claim that because they’ve engaged in genocide, that’s why they’ve lost their humanity, but again, it’s an unnecessary mental step that gains us nothing and weakens the argument for deploying violence against them.
For the soldier / PTSD argument, I again disagree. Soldiers kill people. There should be no way around that fact. Dehumanization and making it easier for soldiers to mentally compartmentalize the taking of life is not a good thing and can easily be warped to make soldiers follow any order, regardless of the moral imperative. The soldiers can and should be made to understand that they are committing a traumatic amount of violence and death in order to stop an entire genocide. Violence is a tool and it must be wielded responsibly and with full understanding that the violence is both necessary and just.
Also chill with the faux philosophical ramblings of simulations and video game analogies. I don’t care what you believe outside of this context, but this is a serious issue and talking about “disabl[ing] PvP flags for the middle east” belies that this is the real world (simulated or not) with real, serious consequences. It damages your entire argument and makes you come across like you don’t see the actual human pain and suffering this massacre has caused.
There are times violence has to be done against fellow humans (right now against the Russian elite, for example; I really don’t think fighting a fucking meat grinder war is necessary but States would rather kill millions of civilians and dumb kids than fix the problem directly and make themselves vulnerable).
I don’t particularly care about being ‘righteous’ or glorious war or any of this crap. I want to stop people dying.
Ive laid out that I don’t particularly care about biological humanity. Just the things you can do with it, and if you wall those off, as happens to basically all of them with fascism, all the reasons I care about people stop being relevant.
This applies to members of my own family, but none of the ones I could possibly reach are doing genocide, just some awful animal stuffing itself into a bottle and ranting on Facebook somewhere, which required a brief period of mourning and moving the fuck on. Hope they die before drinking their kids’ inheritance, but its not worth the social disturbance of killing them.
But when youre comitting a genocide, youre already doing all the things that would be bad about killing a fascist, but at a much higher volume.
Theres ending a culture. That’s a bad thing about genocide. But either they’re Jewish (lol, I know, but for the sake of argument we can pretend) and that culture exists in thousands of cities all over the world, and only individuals (which fascists arent in any of the ways that make that precious) would be lost, OR they’re just murder-ghouls whose existence is only atrocities, in which case it extra needs to happen, we are better off without.
The video game analogy was a thought experiment, the hypothetical “even if you had a magic switch to just make it so nobody could do violence or even so much as fuck woth each other, no matter how badly they wanted to, everyone is completely safe from each other” in shorthand people understand and explaining what that (in a fantasy world where that could happen) might look like, mostly to avoid ‘what if’s’ because I’m rarely sure anyone’s arguing in complete good faith, even in more generally sensible places. I know thisisnt a fucking game. If this were a fucking game I’d be good natured about it. Or at least only a little bit of an asshole.
I’m aware people are dying. I don’t think we’d be talking about this if they weren’t.
I think when you become a fascist, most of the death has already happened. Most of the death that matters at least. Again, I have personal experience coping with this. I think most people do by now. Theres a range where you can pull them back, but after a certain point they’re just lost, and it only looks like the person you knew/loved.
Even a chicken has honest feelings, but fascists kind of don’t. Theres no moral wrong in killing them, except scaring others and traumatizing yourself by killing something that looks human. Hence the dehumanization. Because they need to be killed; they won’t stop any other way. I fucking hate them for that.
I see where youre coming from, and your arguments aren’t completely invalid; I just think youre wrong in this specific case.
I also think we see the same problem, and the fact there’s only two options left, one of them we both agree is completely unconscionable and not worth mentioning, the other we agree really fucking sucks.
I have a friend who is Jewish and since 10+ years she shares jokes telling Palestinians are bombers and robbers, and thar Jews are inventors, or telling me that Palestinians don’t even exist. When I counter argue her she gets pissed and says she accepts no moral lessons from anyone.
That’s sad for me, because I only know 4 Jewish person: 2 were very nice but I lost contact, and the 2 others are so belligerent destroy the good image I have of Jewish people.
On the other side, I know some 20 Palestinians and much more Arabs, and all of them except one never said anything bad against Jewish (but of course they don’t approve when Israel kills people).
When my Jewish friend tell me that Arabs hate Jews and I provide her this statistics she gets crazy mad again.
Not ironic. Direct continuity; Israeli precursors helped with the holocaust. More tried, but hitler, for the first and last time in his life, was the least unreasonable dipshit in the room and told them no.
This is not war. It’s just mass murder. If this was war, the conservatives would be targeting at least some combatants. The IDF intentionally targets civilians and aid workers. This is not what war is. This is what genocide is.
It was declared as war, it is being fought as war. It’s war. Technically in every aspect. The fact they are stronger means nothing. How do you know IDF is intentionally targeting civilians and then letting other 2 million of them go is a mystery to me but it’s not genocide because it’s not by definition “acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”, because had that been the case, there would be no Gaza left, there would be no aid, there would be no humanitarian corridor.
It’s at least ethnic cleansing, as you can see Israeli politicians making conferences supporting resetting Gaza, taking West Bank (land seizures in West Bank is on a 30 year high), Canadian synagogues selling property in stolen land in West Bank, see vídeos of Israelis asking to carpet bomb Gaza, etc.
Even Ben Gurion and people at the time said they would accept an Israeli state as a base to take off the whole of Palestine
Do you really believe the IDF could so blatantly destroy all of Palestine without anyone noticing? The Israeli state would crumble without western support, they have to maintain plausible deniability. But their own policies state they don’t recognize Palestine.
Dude that’s literally what’s happening right now… they are trying to destroy all of palestine, we all have noticed, and it is crumbling… they are maintaining deniability even through bold-faced examples to the contrary… why you are saying is literally happening
You are right, I have been a little out of the loop on recent international reactions, I was surprised to read a recent UN report outlining the atrocities so effectively. Last I heard they are still allowing arms sales from the US though which is what I meant more specifically
Good thing there is no war in Ukraine, right? Your “logic” doesn’t make any sense.
We know they are intentionally targetting civillians because of all the incidents that happen. Yaknow, for decades actually. The kneecappings, the shooting at protesters, the shooting at medics who provide emergency care. It’s not up to debate - it is what they do and have always done.
Also your definition of genocide is shit - since it also covers forced displacement.
Also, there is no aid. What gets in is a fraction of a fraction of what’s needed. Who gives a shit that bottles of water, 20000 of them came in, when all that does is at best serve a single day for 20k people out of 2 million? Everything gets searched and often denied. There are countless aid trucks waiting on the other side of the border. Even what US was dropping was a tiny part of the need. Compared to the Berlin airlift, all this is, is showing idiots “look we give aid everything is fine”.
What humanitarian corridor too? The one where people get shot at with artillery?
You are either a troll, or a pelican that swallows every propaganda piece someone throws at you.
Buddy, I literally have coworkers in Gaza that I am in constant contact with. I know a doctor that was in Al Shifa when the last assaults happened when it was still operating. I know people who were shot by Israelis. I know people who lost their entire family to a bomb that levelled a house right across the street from their house. You implying that “an inflated opinion of myself” makes all of this be false simply because you are the “enlightened one” is just sickening.
I don’t care about you, your opinion, or the other guy and his opinion. Life isn’t a popularity contest. I know what’s happening in Gaza and I’ll happily correct any dumbo that watched too much TV and formed their opinion that way.
I thought it was just bots on reddit saying this Hasbara pro-IDF Nazi-esque genocide justification but there are actually people everywhere thinking like this. We truly live in dark times. IDF are engineering something worse than fuckin Leningrad in WW2, and there are soooo many people openly defending it, I can’t believe people can be so simultaneously heartless and brainless just KILL KILL KILL. It’s like a nightmare I can’t wake up from.
Decades of Western impunity, and an entire political and media infrastructure that has enabled Israel’s crimes against humanity, have led to Israel disassociating itself from a world where actions have consequences, or where the truth of what it says matters. And the events of the past 48 hours—including the bombing of an Iranian embassy and the brazen killing of seven aid workers in Gaza—have proved that Israel seemingly feels entitled to plunder and sow death and destruction as it pleases.
It’s obvious why israel is becoming more and more arrogant in their crimes; Biden is always giving them the green light. And they know it by now. They have tested again and again how far they can go and now know there are literally no limits for what Biden will support.
Blowing up all hospitals. Literally starving all Palestinians to death like a Nazi concentration camp. Nothing goes to far for Genocide Joe.
Indeed every single previous American president would have already stopped israeli by now. Genocide Joe is by far biggest Zionist president in American history
There were three times in the past that israel violated human rights so hard that American presidents threatened arms embargoes or threatened to cut off israeli loan guarantees. The most recent one is George Bush.
Although Israel and its supporters went into a frenzy, with one Israeli cabinet minister calling the U.S. president an “antisemite” and a “liar,” Bush Sr. prevailed. On Oct. 2, 1991, the U.S. Senate formally acceded to Bush’s request for a 120-day postponement. Furthermore, because of Shamir’s determination to expand settlements, the loans were not released until well beyond the postponement period, after the election of a more moderate Israeli government led by Yitzhak Rabin.
When I spoke to him in 2003, Baker told me, “We said to Rabin, ‘we’ll release the $10 billion if you agree to substantially restrict settlement activity,’ and he did.”
In these cases israel did far less human rights violation than the full scale Genocide they are committing right now. Genocide Joe is exceptional in his support to let israel kill every single Palestinian.
“You have to finish up your war … You gotta get it done. And I am sure you will do that. And we gotta get to peace, we can’t have this going on. And I will say, Israel has to be very careful, because you’re losing a lot of the world, you’re losing a lot of support,” he told the newspaper.
When asked how he would have countered a rise in anti-Semitism that followed the Hamas attacks and Israel’s response, Mr Trump appeared to blame the images of Israeli bombings coming out of Gaza.
“Well, that’s because you fought back,” he said. “And I think Israel made a very big mistake. I wanted to call [Israel] and say don’t do it. These photos and shots. I mean, moving shots of bombs being dropped into buildings in Gaza. And I said, Oh, that’s a terrible portrait. It’s a very bad picture for the world. The world is seeing this … every night, I would watch buildings pour down on people.”
When even Donald Trump turns with the winds, it’s looking like Biden literally can’t do worse
Who knows. Orange Man promised to be strong against Russia and then 180’d the entire Republican party into being Putins lap dog. Trump will go wherever the wind blows and whomever gives him a nice wad of cash.
No. I don’t have any obvious counter-evidence I’m aware of, but I don’t bare the burden of proof. You need to show evidence that every single other president would have done as you say. It’s a very big claim that requires a lot of evidence, and frankly I don’t believe it’s true.
Maybe not every president since as you say that requires a lot of evidence and is likely unprovable, but I firmly believe that the majority would've stopped Israel by now. I mean, hell, even objectively horrible people like George Bush and Regan did it. Hell, even Biden did it in 2021. What I want to say is: Biden letting Israel rampage like this is the exception, not the norm. For evidence, I think the fact that Israel has needed to exercise at least a modicum of restraint and not commit actual genocide until now is enough.
Israel is currently in the process of committing an actual genocide. I think that’s why the Biden administration is holding an investigation; because if they can publish a finding that Israel is using American weapons they can then withhold aid without anyone being able to make legal trouble. Because of the way our treaties work, Biden is compelled to supply aid to Israel until he’s legally forbidden from doing so. In the meantime, there’s reports that he’s begun using back-door beurocratic BS to slow aid down as much as he’s legally able to.
Now maybe all of that is baseless rumors being spread by braindead Biden cheerleaders, but it’s also entirely possible that it’s true. You have no basis for your assertion that Biden is even doing worse than average, so stop trying to act like it’s an established fact.
Now maybe all of that is baseless rumors being spread by braindead Biden cheerleaders
Yes. Israel has been obviously breaking international law, using American weapons (including the infamous 2000 pound bombs) for a while now. Many individual Israeli actions have been called warcrimes by various NGOs, up to and including the UN. If he wanted to do anything he'd have done it already. He also wouldn't match bold-faced Israeli propaganda (like the 40 dead babies debacle).
You have no basis for your assertion that Biden is even doing worse than average, so stop trying to act like it’s an established fact.
I do: Biden is one of the few US presidents who hasn't stopped Israel when they did something this out of proportion. Again, this man is doing worse than Reagan and Bush. Do you understand how low the bar he's failing to meet is?
We are. Tell that to these Israeli fuckers. The most moral army in the world probably has more objections to that than killing children all around for fun, tho.
The chokehold Israeli Intelligence / Propaganda wing has on reddits worldnews subreddit is freakin depressing (and scary in how total it is).
Post anything even remotely critical to anything Israel did and within minutes you'll have a dozen downvotes and people outright warping reality in their response to you, all on relatively recent accounts that only ever respond to posts related to Israel. They aren't subtle about it in the slightest.
And stories like them murdering foreign aid workers on purpose just get magicked away.
But on no account should you consider yourself wrong. That can’t happen. Propaganda works only one way and not the other. Whenever there’s evidence of Hamas storing weapons or launching rockets next to schools and hospitals, it’s fake news. It’s source that can’t be trusted. But whenever something aligns with your beliefs that’s 100% true, evidence not required. Even now you are claiming they killed foreign aid workers on purpose when there was no investigation and no such claim anywhere. But it fits your narrative.
Ukraine being clearly having the moral high ground as a sovereign state defending itself, yes, expect to be downvoted for trying to contract what we all see with our own eyes.
Caelan Conrad (I believe) used to have a video up on the subject, where they used and walked through the app, but it’s mysteriously gone missing. Act.il’s own YouTube channel remains, though.
Issue is when a relevant criticism of Israel is labeled as anti-Israel/anti-semitic.
Just like it is an issue when anti-semitic/anti-Israel content is labeled as a relevant criticism. Needless to say, at least here on lemmy I see the second situation not very common.
I’ve lost a lot of sympathy and just regard for Israel’s right to exist. I don’t want anyone to suffer, but I could care less if Israel as a political power were to disappear tomorrow if it meant a halt to the indiscriminate killing of people having nothing to do with attacks on Israeli people/territory.
It’s nuts because me 10 years ago would smack current me across the mouth for even thinking such a thing. As things are, Israel is acting like a bunch of nazis. Just crazy.
If Israel disappeared, the situation would be far worse. Because despite all of their actions, israel is still million times better than Iran and its proxies.
What I can agree with you, though, is the fact that current regime there and people in power are dangerous both for Israel itself and the rest of the world
Uh... Only one of these is committing genocide. Only one is an Apartheid state. Only one supports fucking ISIS. Y'all need to get your heads out of your asses and look at reality.
There’s no racial segregation in Israel if you are implying that. There’s no ISIS support either. And there’s no genocide because killing is not indiscriminate. If it were there would be no Gaza left.
Fuck off with your tired excuses. You’re right though, the killing isn’t indescriminate, they skillfully target aid workers, refugee convoys and hospitals. Israel isn’t an independent actor, they are killing as many as they possibly can while still maintaining just enough support to continue arms sales from the US. Even the UK government is considering halting transfers because of a fear of complicity in genocide.
Since its establishment in 1948, Israel has pursued an explicit policy of establishing and maintaining a Jewish demographic hegemony and maximizing its control over land to benefit Jewish Israelis while minimizing the number of Palestinians and restricting their rights and obstructing their ability to challenge this dispossession. In 1967, Israel extended this policy beyond the Green Line to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which it has occupied ever since. Today, all territories controlled by Israel continue to be administered with the purpose of benefiting Jewish Israelis to the detriment of Palestinians, while Palestinian refugees continue to be excluded.
Over the years, Israel has used military rule as a key tool to establish its system of oppression and domination over Palestinians across both sides of the Green Line, applying it over different groups of Palestinians in Israel and the OPT almost continuously since 1948 – with the exception of a seven-month gap in 1967 – to advance Jewish settlement in areas of strategic importance and to dispossess Palestinians of their land and property under the guise of maintaining security.
Don’t worry, Israel is going to sacrifice the red cow this month - middleeasteye.net/…/israel-palestine-west-bank-se…Israel’s crazy death cult religion wants to bring about the end of the world with fire to cleanse the world during rapture, so your sick-fuck wish might come true.
EDIT - allisrael.com/…/what-do-five-red-heifers-have-to-… <- Israeli source in case you think this is some anti-semetic hogwash, it’s not. They just omit in the article the slaughtering of the cow as part of the ritual.
What the fuck you, guy. Utterly divorced from reality. Iran has as its guiding religious and political purpose the genocide of all Jews and Christians in the middle east, same goals as Hamas.
They think God is on their side and so they don’t realize that they are no match for Israel. When they do finally take their shot at Israel, tens of millions of people will be killed, notably when Israel turns Tehran into a sheet of glass. Think about how sads you are about 30,000 deaths and then try out how you might feel over 30,000,000 deaths. Utterly delusional assessment, as is calling Israel an apartheid state. The defining feature of apartheid is minority rule over the majority of its citizens. Israel doesn’t have that. Not only are Gazans not citizens of Israel, they aren’t citizens of any country. Israel is in fact, in law, and in political science a flawed democracy, same as America, which is by every concievable metric better than Iran, unless you use metrics such as “public executions carried out by secret religious police” or “number of human rights trampled because Mosque Daddy says so.”
It’s absolutely stunning that you don’t realize this and so I have to ask, how far did you go in school and what did you study?
ran has as its guiding religious and political purpose the genocide of all Jews and Christians in the middle east, same goals as Hamas.
Uh... You do realize Hamas accepted a two-state solution ages ago, and that Gaza actually has Christians, right? I also hope you do realize that the fact that Gazans being stateless makes Israel more of an Apartheid state. Or maybe you'd prefer "settler colonialist state subjecting Palestinians to a brutal occupation"?
Anyway I'll probably regret engaging with this steaming pile of propaganda, but I'll ask: How do you feel about this, this and this?
Do you know anything at all about Palestinians in Israel? Because you sound super ignorant. Do you know how many of them get killed or harassed or fired?
For everyone. For the locals because these terrorist proxies do not seem to care about civilians at all and for the rest of the world because Iran would become a nuclear superpower and that’s pretty dangerous considering what their proxies are capable of.
You either have an ulterior motive or are woefully misinformed. The Houthis, Hezbollah and Hamas are all very different groups who have no similarity besides being Islamist.
The tens of millions of people of Iran after Israel retaliates, maybe the people in parts of Israel where Iron Dome can’t stop all of Iran’s missile, and the hundreds of millions of people throughout the Middle East, North Africa, and western and central Europe would will deal see a cascade of failed states stemming from a humanitarian and refugee catastrophe unlike anything the world has ever experienced. Like 30,000 people is a short footnote compared to 30,000,000, or the 300,000,000 dead and displaced we could see if col
And this is not difficult or hard to understand, but you do have to be able to set aside your sadness over 30,000 and think rationally about the 30,000,000. This the baseline from which America and virtually the entire political and foreign service contingencies of the western world derive their middle east policy. It’s all about isolating Iran.
Hamas actually is an ideology of genocideal violence and indiscriminate killing of civilians and is Iran’s proxy right on the border of America’s ally and the only democracy in the region.
The key point is there is that theocratic dictatorships desired by Iran, ISIS, Hamas, the Houthis, Islamic Jihad, and other, are fundamentally incapable of establishing or protecting human rights because their laws are based on religious whims of a one or two extreme religious muckity mucks.
So like, anyone actually concerned about humanity and human rights and yet throwing their weight in behind Iran or its proxies, against Israel, is doing the opposite of what they are concerned for. I know it’s hard. 30,000 people, very sad. Not nearly as sad as it could get, quickly and easily, though, if Iran jumps off.
There are plenty of people who know way more about this than I do who think hot war between Israel and Iran is imminent. If Trump gets reelected, he will definitely try to start it. He already did once, and the only reason it stopped is because when Iran responded, they accidentally shot down its own civilian airliner.
Hamas actually is an ideology of genocideal violence and indiscriminate killing of civilians and is Iran’s proxy right on the border of America’s ally and the only democracy in the region.
Man almost half the people Israel rules (Gaza and the West Bank are occupied no matter how much Zionists would like to believe otherwise, source: UN) don't have voting (or human for that matter) rights. And we're seeing them crack down on dissent using extrajudicial (or effectively extrajudicial) arrests as we speak. Democracy my ass.
Genocide against Palestinians is okay because you are racist against Iranians (a country the US and Israel is oddly keen on sabotaging in every way possible).
The concept of Transfer in Zionist thought and the displacement of Palestinians since the 1920s culminated into a full fledged ethnic cleansing campaign in 1948
Now do the concept of genociding every Jew and Christian in the middle east and the concept of blowing yourself up inside a coffee shop or doing a mass shooting at a kids concert.
If Israel disappeared, a State where Palestinians have equal rights to Israelis would take its place.
Bro, Hamas’s motto, same as the motto of every other pan-Islamist violent religious extremists in the middle east, “Death to Israel and death to America.”
They literally think God has ordained them to be the true rules of the entire world. They call it “restoring Islam to its rightful place” or they call it a “new world order free from infidels” or “the caliphate.”
Like where do you even get this fictitious nonsense?
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. The 2017 Revised charter accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter
More nonsense, irrelevant spam. You don’t hide your sources. You just post an overwhelming amount of irrelevant, biased shit that would take too long to correct.
Anyway, sorry the war still making you so sad that you reject reality to make yoursel feel better. Is denial working?
Like the Snopes article that tries desperately to gloss over the fact that Hamas was popularly elected with innuendo and lies.
It was true that Hamas won the latest election among Palestinians in Gaza — it happened in 2006 — though that victory was not by a majority of votes.
It was a majority of je votes cast, not a majority of the voters. And the reason for that is because Hamas encouraged loyal their many supporters not to participate in the process, and they still won!
I agree that doesn’t necessarily reflect what Gaza might do in an election today but we cannot know that because Hamas cancelled all future elections. Another key details omitted by you and Snopes. That’s who you support: people who will literally kill you for saying nice things about democracy.
And all your bullshit has never once been about criticizing specific policies about Israel, it’s about proving to everyone watching that Israel is evil, not because you want Israel to get better, but because you want to justify Hamas’s actually indiscriminate killing of Jews.
Hamas’s genocidal intent is not up for debate. It’s their sole unifying purpose over decades and their literal motto and it’s what they say to Qatar and Iran when they have their hands out for more rockets and tunnel money. God forbid they buy some food and try to improve anyone’s life.
Here’s the substance of the Snopes claim:
former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett stated that when Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, Palestinians supposedly had the opportunity to turn it into “an amazing and beautiful state.” Instead, he wrote, “A majority of Palestinians voted Hamas whose explicit goal is to destroy Israel,” and Hamas’ subsequent rocket firing, according to Bennett, forced the Israeli military to form a blockade on the Gaza Strip.
And nothing thereafter in the article proves otherwise. This statement has been and remains 100% true. Gaza is responsible for Gaza and Gaza out Hamas in charge. Hamas shut down the airports and seaports. Hamas refused to follow any international law. They would still be doing suicide bombings if it didn’t undermine their lawfare steategy. More facts that you completely ignore.
Most Palestinians agree that Hamas should recognize Israel’s right to exist. Two-thirds (63 percent) of those polled Jan. 27-29 by Near East Consulting said Hamas should change its position calling for the elimination of Israel. Even among those who voted for Hamas, only 37 percent support Hamas’ position that Israel does not have the right to exist.
Apparently the vast majority of Palestinians did not vote for Hamas because of its political goals but because of their desire to rid the Palestinian Authority of corruption, a theme Hamas campaigned on. Among those polled by JMCC who said they voted for Hamas, only 12 percent said they did so because of Hamas’ political agenda. A plurality of 43 percent said they voted for Hamas because they hoped it would end corruption.
Furthermore it should be noted that Hamas did not receive the majority of the popular vote. With the Palestinians’ mixed system of proportional representation according to party support for half the seats and district seats based on population for the other half, Hamas was able to take 58 percent of all seats with only 45 percent of the overall popular vote (the 58 percent includes three independents who campaigned with Hamas).
The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.'* In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.”'°° This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.!°! (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.'°)
page 240
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Just screw them. As long as people can read it’s that’s what matters.
Though I’m always a bit conflicted about upvote/ liking. I usually upvote something that, I like. But I don’t like this, I truly hate reading this kind of stuff. It’s horrifying and I wish it would stop.
And won’t do a damn thing. Just how Facebook likes are not stopping Russia’s invasion upvoting/downvoting will have exactly zero effect on this conflict as well. On one side Israel will ensure this time that this never happens again, on the other only acceptable outcome for Palestine is death of every Israeli, which is not happening.
World will criticize. Israel will win and there will be calm for some years before Hamas goes for the blood again and people call Israel genocidal nation once again. It’s a frighteningly short cycle and people keep forgetting it every time.
The The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 in Zionist thought and the displacement of Palestinians since the 1920s culminated into a full-fledged ethnic cleansing campaign in 1948. Plan Dalet with Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) Partition and later the Two-State Solution have been wielded by Israel to covet and annex as much Palestinian land as possible with the least amount of Palestinians.
After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. Despite this, both Fatah and later Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation. This is apartheid.
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. The 2017 Revised charter accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter
There’s a small but angry and vocal contingent of Israel supporters around here. The other day one got mad at me because I said the IDF’s report of killing 200 terrorists in the hospital in Gaza was bullshit and it was bullshit specifically because it came from the IDF and you can’t trust a word they say.
I was in a gas station around UNC Chapel Hill of all places standing in line behind a couple younger guys who were saying insane things about how Palestine’s not a real state, they’re just migrant squatters and seemed to mock anyone hurt or killed that opposed Israel. They reminded me of ‘Murican’s talking about how strong and right America is, but from the Jewish perspective with Israel in its stead.
It’s hard to describe how sickening it was to hear. And they’re like, 20.
Funny is that illegal Jewish immigrants into Palestina on 1930s had to be stopped by Brits, and jewish reacted by bombing British embassy and sinking British ships (read about Irgun and Stern group terrorist attacks).
Nothing about this is funny or a subject for mockery. At least you can take comfort in knowing that twenty years olds basically don’t know shit about anything let alone foreign policy let alone hypermodern points of international law. Only Facebook and Sarah Palins and Donald Trumps give these know nothings the validation to share their dumbass thoughts out loud. It’s by design and it’s so dangerous. Any one of them can buy a blue check mark and a following.
They reminded me of ‘Murican’s talking about how strong and right America is, but from the Jewish perspective with Israel in its stead.
I am Jewish. I do not have that perspective. A large number of Jews do not have that perspective and do not support Israel or its genocide. Many of us also advocate for Palestinian independence and an end to apartheid.
I don’t want to know what it does to a society when casually sniping 4 year olds is completely ok and accepted. After Gaza is razed, all of these soldiers will return as heroes, but will they be able to stop their habits?
I'm beginning to think many of them joined up specifically for the the purpose of slaughtering children. It feels like they've even dropped the pretense of all Palestinians being Hamas - at least I don't hear them making that excuse all that much anymore. They seem to just enjoy the killing.
EDIT: Apparently military service in Israel is mandatory. I guess murdering Palestinian children en masse is just a bonus.
Yeah I heard many of the like eating babies as well. Hamas is there just as an excuse but in reality they are the good guys who just like drinking tea.
I’m not excusing any of their actions, because I’m genuinely horrified by Israel’s conduct, but the IDF is a conscripted military force. Every Israeli, excluding some ultra-orthodox extremists who get a controversial religious exemption, is required to serve a certain amount of time in the military after they turn 18. There are alternative public service options for conscientious objectors, but most 18 year olds end up with a rifle in their hand. That’s pretty fucked up if you ask me.
That means the majority of the soldiers perpetrating these atrocities are basically children themselves. They didn’t join so they could do a genocide, they joined because they had to, and are doing a genocide. I’m sure some of them are sick fuckers who enjoy it, but most are probably just following despicable, immoral, unforgivable orders from superiors. That’s not a justification, just an unfortunate likelihood.
That said, yes, it does seem like they’ve dropped the pretense.
I’d believe that more if they weren’t on Tik Tok laughing and joking about the horrific acts they’re doing, like demolishing whole neighborhoods, destroying hospitals, and killing people.
Since years I see Israeli saying 'we have to eliminate the vipers nest ", meaning kill their babies and women, and bombing all health infrastructure so that women having babies dies more often
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