I've seen a few discussions about the "failed" protests and wanted to talk about it

So I've seen a few posts regarding news outlets calling the protests a failure, and I don't really think that's the case. The protests have clearly made an impact, especially if the Reddit CEO is willing to oust MODS to reopen subreddits. I truly believe that something has been jump started here on Lemmy, Kbin, and all of the fediverse. What happened on Reddit has simply pushed those already on the fence, or looking for other social media platforms to jump ship. I truly believe the impact is greater than what the media and Reddit in general want us to believe. Something has started here on the fediverse that simply cannot be stopped, all we can do is inform others and show why it's the future of aggregated news boards and social media.

void,

I know I probably wouldn't have bothered checking all "this" out if that hadn't happened. I was never active on Twitter, but what's happening on Reddit seems similar to how Musk "ruined" twitter (from what I hear from folks who were/are active on there).

jakwithoutac,

I think the biggest impact that the protest has had was to reveal Reddit’s true colours, and to therefore split the user base into two groups: the people that give a shit, and those that don’t.

IMO, it’s the people that give a shit that made Reddit a good place to be in the first place and created the attraction for everyone else. I also have a feeling that the GivvaShittas^tm^ are the bunch that are moving to the Fediverse en-masse and I’m happy to be coming with them.

Defaced,

This absolutely, it seems like the people that truly wanted a fully community driven platform have left and found an alternative with kbin and lemmy. I've been enjoying my time so far and will continue to stay in the fediverse for as long as possible.

xaon_rider92,

The protests have definitely made some sort of impact, even if it's not the initially intended impact. It has drawn media and public attention to the situation, it has dragged reddit's reputation into the ground, and it has exposed Reddit the Company's true colours and intentions for everyone to see, including the casual user who may not have cared about the API situation in the first place. Whether this has been for the good or for the bad is debatable. IMO we are now watching the disintegration of reddit in real time, and a few months later, after everything settles, reddit will still be here but it will no longer be the same. We have seen this happen before with Tumblr, Digg etc. And the Fediverse will grow and expand, and with some luck and effort, hopefully it can become something great.

razorwiregoatlick,
razorwiregoatlick avatar

Whether or not it’s was a failure depends on what you expected from it. Reddit was not going to change its mind. The investors demand more money and will continue to squeeze Reddit for ever dime the can. It wasn’t going to die overnight either.

What did happen is a non-trivial amount of users left and found the Fediverse. Apps are currently being developed to make it more accessible to your average user. The Fediverse will no longer be some obscure thing for a niche group. I think it was a huge success and will have long term repercussions for Reddit.

spicy_biscuits,
spicy_biscuits avatar

Precisely how I feel on it. Would it have been magical if the protest resulted in every last user leaving reddit behind for better alternatives? Of course. But that was never something I thought was likely. However, it's caused a lot of us who were already unhappy to leave and come over to the Fediverse, and I do think that's a success.

CoderKat,
CoderKat avatar

It's not like Reddit was even likely to die. I think we all knew the best case outcome that was still grounded in reality was something like Reddit falling into a slow but certain nose dive.

I mean, even Twitter is still kicking despite all the horrible stuff that's gone on there. Reddit isn't Twitter levels of bad. A slow decline was the best we could have hoped for.

Honestly, we wouldn't have been able to scale to a massive migration, anyway. A slow migration is ideal for scaling and community building.

wheresyourshoe,

We're already pushing the limits with our current numbers moving in. A mass migration would have been way too much.

spicy_biscuits,
spicy_biscuits avatar

All very good points! So yeah, I'm taking what victories I can, in this case my victories are having found the Fediverse and no longer being on reddit ☺️

Casmael,

Yeah what the fuck is going on with twitter? Anybody know what current traffic is like compared with before it was musked?

Kichae,

Whether Reddit dies or not also depends on what you consider "Reddit" to be.

Will reddit.com go down? No. Likely not for a generation, at least. Will Reddit be totally unrecognizable in the future? Probably not.

Will it be a souless zombie, kept operational by nothing more than its brand name and advertising?

Yes. Yes it will.

Draconic_NEO,
@Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

Just like Digg, digg is still technically around since the website is still up. Though it's not really Digg anymore. It's just some random news site now, you would never guess that it was once one of the most active forms on the internet.

That's where Reddit is headed, any arguments trying to push otherwise are pure cope by Reddit addicts, who just want to keep scrolling forever and don't want to have to start over from the beginning on a different platform that might be alien to them. They're going to have to though, even the people who were loyal enough to stay with Digg until the end had to move on at some point.

Aeonx,
Aeonx avatar

IDK I guess I kinda hoped that people would realize how stupid and exploitative the whole system of reddit is and the site would get overrun with spam and turned into an archive site. Was very disappointed in that pipe dream.

Valdair,
Valdair avatar

It's going to be a long, slow process. The people who quit and deleted their accounts are part of it. The people who are just using it a lot less are part of it. The communities continuing to protest in their own unique ways to continue to raise awareness are part of it. The 3rd party app devs telling their sides of the story are part of it. People who get bored or curious when their communities slow down and go looking elsewhere will be part of it. The flurry of negative news is a big part of it. And the more all the other stuff continues, the more the negative press continues, and Huffman is doing himself 0 favors in any of his interviews.

spicy_biscuits,
spicy_biscuits avatar

I know. Me too. It fucking sucks that we don't see larger, more consistent examples of unity over issues like this. Part of me is grateful for the amount of people that did port over, and part of me is mad at that grateful part, thinking that I should--we should--be able to expect more. And part of me wants to take the victories that I can. It's not a simple issue, so I'm trying to hold on to the faith that I have left that we'll figure all of this shit out and do what I can in the meantime.

tobor,

It's a difficult thing to measure, since it won't necessarily be a leap from just one platform to another.

I saw a meme on Tumblr about redditors remembering they had "dual Tumblr citizenship" all along. A lot of people are exploring a bunch of different options simultaneously (me included) and that's pretty great.

But yeah, we'll figure it out I hope!

Cannacheques,

I can imagine both will coexist but Reddit and Facebook will slowly be sidelined for many as communities become more focused or specialised

Granite,

I 100% never would have joined the thrediverse if not for 90% of reddit protesting!

camelbeard,

Yes, I jumped ship to mastodont after Elon took over and Twitter is still a thing. It's slowly getting worse and worse but some users just don't want to leave.

instamat,

A non trivial amount of users. That makes me happy.

Alto,
Alto avatar

Be ready for another wave on the 30th/1st. Probably won't be quite as big, but that's when the 3rd party apps die.

instamat,

Exactly. That will be a big milestone.

Egavans,

The bigger waves are likely to come with the inevitable old.reddit shutdown and porn bans.

!deleted162668,

deleted_by_author

    •
    ciclamino,

    Yep, especially considering the clear improvements that are constantly being implemented and the higher activity levels than before, what makes Lemmy/kbin feel more like a good alternative where people should migrate to

    AineLasagna,

    Upvotes on posts on the front page of /r/all are now like 15k where they used to be in the 100k range. Very promising. I keep checking in every other day or so but that’s going to stop once Apollo goes dark. Things are going to get quite bad for reddit in July and I absolutely can’t wait to see it

    Cannacheques,

    I think that what's happened in the last hundred or so years, for China, during the Cultural Revolution, and for the USA, since Vietnam, the ideology of social anarchism, along with the whole piracy movement has had a far reaching impact on people throughout society.

    The modern concepts of freedom of information, direct action and skill sharing has effectively crushed and displaced both fascism and economic opportunism/gatekeeping that plagued the cold war generations, as it gives everyone, thle tools and opportunities for another renaissance, opening the door for further innovation and creativity, etc

    SpermKiller,

    Yeah, I first took a look at lemmy and others a few weeks ago, when everyone was asking "what's an alternative?" and at the time, despite so many people talking about the fediverse, there weren't that many people or threads. And now look how active some communities are becoming!

    Horik,
    Horik avatar

    I still lurk. I expected the slow decline and change in character that others here have predicted.
    What I have seen in the last 8 days floored me. Continues to floor me. Reddit is already a zombie platform. Front page is week-old posts. Bot generated reposts from 2 weeks ago.
    And astroturf posts trying to spin the whole thing as a "what was that blip?" Or "glad those whiners are gone"

    It happened so much faster than I expected.

    qprimed,

    as someone that refuses to hit the site in any way, shape or form - thank you for the eyes-on-the-page update.

    letsroll,
    letsroll avatar

    Oh, I think it's hurt Reddit more than it seems on the surface. Of course they will say "it's not working" but reading between the lines of this Engadget article [1], the number of ad impressions would be down rather significantly. Note the difference between time spent on site (seeing ads) and "visits" -- many of which were likely people checking on the site rather than participating in the site. I think this is taking a toll, and am hopeful this situation will serve as an example of poor leadership for the next generation (Digg being a previous example).

    1. https://www.engadget.com/reddits-average-daily-traffic-fell-during-blackout-according-to-third-party-data-194721801.html
    StaggersAndJags,

    Reddit was not going to change its mind.

    Honestly, I thought they might. Not to cancel the API fees entirely like some wanted, but to reach a compromise with developers that would increase Reddit's revenue and let the apps stay in business.

    But it's become clear since then that killing the third party apps isn't an accident or side effect, but the explicit intention of the API changes. Now I can't see Reddit compromising as long as spez is in charge.

    I still have a dim hope it could happen. The protests aren't over and Reddit is feeling it.

    Xanvial,

    I really thought it was part of the plan, introducing expensive plan, and later reducing it to more acceptable level. Which should achieve the income they need and maintain public image.

    Casmael,

    Have you seen Huffman's comments regarding Musk's handling of twitter?

    I was rather surprised and not a little scandalised to find that Huffman found this inspiring.

    I kinda hope I'm wrong but I think the chances of any kind of concessions here are slim to none.

    Givesomefucks,

    I get Huffman idolizing Musk...

    I don't understand the owners seeing what happened to Twitter, and keeping Huffman after he says Musk is an inspiration.

    It's owned by a giant media conglomerate, it's surprising they're letting Huffman trash it right before IPO

    Maxcoffee,
    Maxcoffee avatar

    Personally, I'd never even heard of Lemmy, Kbin etc until recent events and thought it was limited to only Mastodon which never really interested me.

    The amount of software development recent events have inspired around the Fediverse seems to be just the kick it needed to have a bright future too.

    WalrusDragonOnABike,

    Same. Was aware of mastadon, but I never liked twitter and didn't want a twitter alternative.

    Kichae,

    I mean, kbin's been in development for a bit, but we only really started hearing about it generally in the Fediverse like a month ago? Maybe 6 weeks ago? Kbin.social is only a few weeks old.

    The developer set up a testing environment, and then Reddit jumped aboard basically immediately.

    Maxcoffee,
    Maxcoffee avatar

    The timing must have sent ernest's head spinning I think.

    Casmael,

    wow fucking spectacular timing holy shit

    rocketpoweredredneck,

    I hit up kbin first but was having some issues with it, which makes sense as I was probably in the middle of the swarm. I jumped to shitjustworks, because it did what it said on the tin. I do think kbin would be a better fit, has it smoothed out any?

    Kichae,

    Considerably, though it's still having some hiccups.

    TheGreenGolem,
    @TheGreenGolem@lemmy.world avatar

    He will try to purge the "-test" strings from every fucking infra and code he has for years because of this.

    Casmael,

    Yeah same. I've actually been using Mastodon a bit and so far enjoyed it a surprising amount. Had some casual but nice exchanges with folks over there. I think leaving reddit is helping me diversify my media consumption habits which is a really good thing imo, if only for the sake of my sanity. Like many others, I don't think I was quite aware of how reliant I'd become on reddit as a source of new, entertainment etc etc.

    instamat,

    Not to overstate the obvious, but this isn’t over yet, the third party apps are still operating. If news outlets were doing their job they would stick to the facts instead of making a judgment on the situation by declaring it a failure. The story is still developing and it’s only just beginning.

    tox_solid,
    @tox_solid@lemmy.world avatar

    Well said. The news outlets calling the protests a failure are making statements that they aren't qualified to make. Unless you have at least one foot in the fediverse, you really wouldn't have any way of knowing the extent of this paradigm shift.

    MiddleWeigh,
    @MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

    Yea your very right. I wasn't really super aware of the situation, until I came here on the 11th, and that was on a whim tbh. I've since been educated on the implications of this from privacy to politics.

    withersailor,

    They could do better than just accepting spez statements.

    MentalEdge, (edited )
    @MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Looking at fedidb, the graph has started looking real exponential in the last 48 hours.

    And this is still days before the third party apps actually stop working. The exodus aint even close to peaked yet.

    Edit: dear lord the user count has spiked. We broke 200 000 threadiverse users just a few days ago, and we are about hit 400 000.

    Teppic,
    Teppic avatar

    This is true, and for the most part extremely good news... But are also stories circulating about a landslide of bot accounts being created on Lemmy recently so numbers from the last 24h or so may want adjusting down slightly.

    MentalEdge,
    @MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Yeah, its almost at 700 000. Getting suspicious.

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    Reddit admins made it perfectly clear they're not interested in feedback or compromises, they've quadrupled down on that point.

    The way they handled this situation clearly shows their contempt for their user base, they want you to create as much content as possible and farm engagement so it looks good for their IPO.

    The best thing people can do is either quit entirely and migrate to sites like this one or at the very minimum only use Reddit for lurking, don't post, don't upvote / downvote, simply cost them resources as that's how they see their user base, a bunch of parasites

    someguy3,

    so it looks good for their IPO

    Let's be real about what this is: it's so they can get rich.

    This model doesn't work well when you rely on user created content and volunteer mods to run the whole thing. Things like Wikipedia and Linux would fail too if they just wanted to take advantage of volunteers to get rich.

    _Hyperion,

    I am not going back after june30, Reddit ceo behaviour is something people should go against, even if it’s Apple i would dump them all and make the switch
    Especially since Reddit is user generated content there’s no point to stick to it regardless

    Those mods who are helping in needs should make extra effort to help user transition out of Reddit too, those who could help should also

    It’s user generated content for Christ sake!

    Wisely,

    Yes that is my concern as well. There seems to be an Elon effect for CEOs where they are thinking they can say and do whatever and it will barely affect them.

    I am just one person but I don't want to contribute to their egos and harmful behavior.

    Maxcoffee,
    Maxcoffee avatar

    About 95% of the time I spent on Reddit was via a third party app on my phone, so come June 30 I physically can't do that at all.

    Thanks good guy Spez for helping me beat this addiction.

    someguy3,

    User generated, user sorted, user moderated. Volunteers don't like being used so the CEO can get rich.

    QuentinP,

    Don't care now, found kbin & Lemmy and that works just fine for me!

    Computerchairgeneral,

    Like others have said, I think whether the protests failed depends on what you wanted them to accomplish. Yes, Reddit is largely trying to ignore the protests and forging ahead with its changes. No, the site didn't collapse overnight like some were hoping. But the fediverse has gotten a big boost in both users and attention thanks to all this, so there is a silver lining even if the protest didn't get Reddit to reverse course. What happens in the long term is anyone's guess, but there are already growing communities here and it's not like this is going to be the last time Reddit is going to screw something up.

    MyNameIsIgglePiggle,

    The next two times are going to be July 1st and July 5th

    atlasraven31,

    https://danienlared.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/long-live-fighters-zerodarkone.jpg

    IninewCrow,
    IninewCrow avatar

    The big thing that everyone should understand is that there seems to be no negotiation ... no middle ground ... either you stay on Reddit and you suck up all the advertising or you don't

    I wasn't quite sure what to do and I drifted in and out of my account for a while and thought protesting, sharing memes or trying to circumvent rules or something ... then I just realized ... the worst thing anyone can do to a social media site is to simply just stop using it at all

    Once you abandon Reddit, you've done the most damage you could possibly do

    Social media is built on human participation ... of all kinds, positive, negative, hateful, loving, inclusive, exclusive ... it doesn't matter what the participation is, as long as you participate

    So once you leave ... you've severed a section of the site to let it die ... if enough people do the same, the rot of users abandoning reddit will turn the site into an empty billion dollar shell that will quickly become worthless

    Draconic_NEO,
    @Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world avatar

    Once you abandon Reddit, you've done the most damage you could possibly do

    I would say that's not exactly the case, if you just quietly delete your Reddit account and choose to go peacefully you aren't doing the most damage that you could do. I would say doing the most damage will be to spread the word for other people and try and help them leave the platform, before ultimately leaving yourself.

    Just leaving without doing anything is essentially just fucking off, it's exactly what the scabs there want. For anybody who's protesting or against this to just leave quietly without making a big stink.

    Ultimately you are right in that leaving is the worst thing you can do, but unless you enlighten people on your way out you won't do the worst damage you could possibly do (legally of course).

    spider, (edited )

    https://reddark.untone.uk currently shows 3413 out of 8829 subreddits as dark, five days after the blackout's official end date.

    That's 39 percent -- even if adjusted for subs that were always private, still roughly one third.

    ShustOne,

    I think those numbers are useless without subscribers. It might be 1/3rd of the subs but I bet it's not even 10% of the user count affected unfortunately.

    tobor,

    They'll keep moving goalposts. It's in their best interest to downplay as much as possible, and unfortunately it's very easy to the misrepresent numbers.

    LinkOpensChest_wav,

    It obviously had an impact because reddit wouldn't have taken such draconian action in response. Reddit admins have been forced to show their ass to the public, and many people who previously had positive or neutral opinions of Steve Huffman & co. have now seen what a manipulative, dishonest group they are. They are looking to harvest more user data at a point when no reasonable person would entrust them with this data. They are looking to expand advertising at a point when a significant number of users have either jumped ship or are remaining behind only to actively sabotage the site. More and more people have come to understand that migrating to the fediverse is no big hurdle.

    Of course reddit will pay certain outlets to report that the protest has been a failure, but to me it looks like it has been a great success. We knew reddit wouldn't reverse its decision, and we knew it wouldn't just disappear (Digg is still around ffs), but a lot of people have seen that ... reddit the web site never really meant that much to us.

    nieceandtows,

    Yeah the blackout resulted in a sustainable alternative to Reddit, which tbf didn’t exist before the blackout. I call that a huge win.

    Tashlan,
    Tashlan avatar

    Reddit admins have been forced to show their ass to the public, and many people who previously had positive or neutral opinions of Steve Huffman & co. have now seen what a manipulative, dishonest group they are

    There's a long tail here that will get spez in the ass later, and that's been the Verge, NYT, Forbes, and so many mainstream outlets that were previous incurious about spez having to talk to him and report on his AMA. He could very quickly end up characterized as a Musk-like buffoon if that's how people who need to make their money from ink start to see him, especially if he doesn't manage to find a new personality before he opens his mouth again. Like the average Redditor, spez doesn't think he's transparent when he's being smug or snarky, and that is particularly visible to journalists who have degrees in snark.

    megane_kun,
    @megane_kun@lemmy.world avatar

    Excellent point, but I just want to comment on this:

    He could very quickly end up characterized as a Musk-like buffoon…

    Steve Huffman idolizes Elon Musk. Being characterized as any flavor of Musk-like would be taken in as praise rather than the condemnation that is intended.

    Mewithband,

    I’m a normal user and just want a place to browse comments and read comments I don’t care if it’s Reddit or something else.

    !deleted162668,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    burgersc12,

    The second the replies from the AMA stopped I realized i was gonna have to find an alternative to Reddit. I was 50/50 before that, since Joey was disappearing. Once i saw the replies from not only spez, but the three other accounts representing Reddit, I knew I had to leave. It was clear they didn't give a shit about anything but telling blatant lies and forcing people on their app.

    MiddleWeigh,
    @MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

    Idc what happens tbh. I mean I care, in that I want everyone to feel the joy I have felt here, but most people aren't like that. And tbh, I really like that this space is still community vibing. It's something that I have personally been looking for, without even knowing it.

    I'm curious where this goes, and how reddit and it's users perform once the 30th comes and down the line.

    I went over and dropped a couple comments about my feelings and left. Maybe someone will follow.

    Defaced,

    Yeah that's understandable, I've gone scorched earth myself, deleted all of my comments and posts as well as my account and I feel better for it, I just hope others come to those terms and follow suit.

    Dick_Justice,
    @Dick_Justice@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, Im pretty happy over here, so for me, the protest was a blazing success.

    Rognaut,

    Yeah, this community feels pretty lively. I hope this keeps up.

    Sabelas,

    I agree. Most people probably don't care about the protest. But I'm curious to see whether the group that does care, and then moves to a fediverse service, contains enough of the content creators that people visit reddit for to make those people also move over.

    artisanrox,
    artisanrox avatar

    This is certainly what I think will happen. People that want to shout into the digital void or just people not really into digitalized socialization, bumbling around trying to figure everything out (so no truly original content posted) will be left.

    IMHO Reddit's prime base was high knowledge digital media surfers. They'll be all gone.

    MiddleWeigh,
    @MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

    I really think it'll be noticeable tbh. I've found that almost every post here is interesting. Lots of window dressing over there on reddit.

    instamat,

    One thing that always bothered me about reddit was if you weren’t in a thread at the exact right time, you missed out on the conversation. Maybe that’s just me though.

    Harry,

    Same here. I effectively left reddit. I deleted the app, only checking their website once a day. Soon I will delete my account entirely. And that will be that.

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