@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd Not in the UK, but I was diagnosed at 60, 8 years ago. Not feeling old, not worried about self-sufficiency, etc., because I'm already working on that. Refitted (see, I speak English :D) my kitchen and all the heavy stuff's in the drawers, including the dishes. Planning on telling any dentist, etc., I engage with in future up front about my #Autism. Learning to make new routines/habits. It can be done - at least so far.
@willaful@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd
I think that's a basic threat in capitalist patriarchy. We all need care. We all need that web of support and we all are weak. And now, in this system, we are mortally afraid of that.
That's why men are trying to push back on women not being their unpaid service-station by default anymore. It confronts them with a terrible fear. Because weak is bad , and you will be alone.
Sometimes it helps to look at the bigger picture and understand where those fears come from. Then step back. And, ehem, well, let go. (work in progress)
I should start a hashtag #AmIAutistic
I stumbled upon this topic and followed, keep seeing discussions that are me to a "t." But I'm not only not "late-diagnosed;" I'm not diagnosed, and have no idea how I could be. It is tantalizing, somewhat reassuring to see others have similar traits and quirks, things that I feel are just the way I am, will never change, and will continue to be criticised for until I die.
@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd
In these circles by diagnosed we can also, as often as not, mean self-diagnosed. A process considered just as valid as getting an official diagnosis, if nothing else because the chance and ability to get an actual diagnosis isn't always available, by price or circumstance. Also self-diagnosis is us, who know ourselves best, doing the work. Deep diving, questioning, understanding and perhaps finely coming to terms with a truth we've long sought.
@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd I’m recently diagnosed ADHD & self diagnosed with mild autism. As an older female & a people pleaser, I’m an expert masker, to the point that I don’t have much confidence in my own diagnosis, in spite of a lot of research. I keep withdrawing from NT people but lack the confidence to claim membership of the ND community.
@Susan60@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd
Give it time. I think we all go through cycles of doubt and disbelief. It is, in part, the process of finally discovering ourselves. We have been disbelieved and essentially gaslit for so long that accepting anything and especialy anything that may be positive about ourselves is extremely hard. Time in places like this, even if only as an observer, is the only way to see just how much more in common you have here than anywhere else.
It's so hard being an expert masker. First, welcome. You know yourself better than anyone else does, and your awareness of masking says a lot. The authors of the wonderful new book Is This Autism will soon post a webinar they did about diagnosis that you might find helpful - their website is https://www.isthisautism.com/
Also, the book is especially helpful for people who camouflage to hide their autistic traits.
There's a wonderful new book called Is This Autism that is very readable and includes lots of autistic voices (disclosure: I'm good friends with one of the authors and one of the autistic people quoted throughout the book.) https://www.isthisautism.com/
Drs. Wayland and Henderson were interviewed about their book Is This Autism in an episode of TILT parenting, "Recognizing Less-Obvious Autism" in which they clarify many ways autism can present, esp. in people who camouflage to hide their autistic traits & why it’s so important to look beyond stereotypes to gain a nuanced understanding of autism. #autism#autistic#neurodiversity#neurodivergent#neurodivergence https://tiltparenting.com/2023/06/13/is-this-autism/
@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd Not only is self diagnosis acceptable. It's absolutely crucial. For many of us it's us who make that first leap. It doesn't feel right at first because the representation & understanding of autism is so outdated & riddled with myths.
It's not as if doctors, counselors, psychologists haven't had an opportunity to suggest we might be autistic. They're just clearly not very good at it. Know thyself.
Deep dives help, meeting other autists helps more. Only you can fully answer the question. You NEVER have to get an "official" DX if you can't or don't want to.
@sentient_water@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd
There are a lot of us who self-diagnosed (ADHD in my case) when our kids were diagnosed and we started reading to learn more to help our kids and had epiphanies. When I was growing up, only boys were thought to have ADHD and it was all about hyperactivity. As a girl with ADHD/inattentive, there's no way I'd ever have been identified, yet reading about it explained my college and subsequent experience so perfectly.
The title of the book on adult ADHD, "You mean I'm not lazy, stupid, or crazy?" completely captures the relief I felt.
For autism, I highly recommend the new book "Is This Autism?" which focuses on identifying those who mask/compensate well. It's very readable and has copious quotes by autistic people. They have a companion book on diagnosis coming out later this summer. https://www.isthisautism.com/
The authors are not autistic but have immediate family members who are and are neurodiverse themselves. However, each chapters has copious sections of quotes from autistic people, labeled as hearing from the experts. They also had an autistic advisory board whose criticisms and suggestions they heeded.
@sentient_water@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd
"Is This Autism?" doesn't claim to give an inside view of autistic lived experience. Its aim it to address the many misconceptions and stereotypes held by both professionals and lay people that keep autistics from getting diagnosed. I don't recommend it (or any other book) as the one book people should read. I do recommend it for people who think they might be autistic but worry they aren't "autistic enough".
@sentient_water@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd@stevesilberman
Steve Silberman, author of NeuroTribes wrote: “Is This Autism? is a towering accomplishment, bringing together the state of the art of scientific and clinical insights into autism with the lived experience and perspectives of autistic people..." 1/2
"...Sensitively written, meticulously observed, and profoundly compassionate, this book will transform your understanding of autism, whether you’re a clinician, a family member, or an autistic person yourself.” 2/2
@sentient_water@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd@stevesilberman
I'm not sure at this point what you're disagreeing with. I've already agreed with you that it's important to read books by autistic people. I gave you the Silberman quote because you specifically mentioned him as a good person to read. I recommended this book for one specific purpose and made it clear that I'd be happy to know of a book by autistic author(s) that has the same focus.
@meredithw@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd@stevesilberman I'm not disagreeing with you but you seem very focused on this particular book & I've clearly explained that I & many others have been used & exploited. Are the autistic people who provided quotes & accounts compensated? Who benefits? If it's not autistic people then it's exploitation. I'm not saying this is the case I just KNOW it frequently is.
@meredithw@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd These are all real positives but not only do autistic authors give a direct account of their experience you're helping support autistic people directly. I recently compiled an extensive list of autistic authors for my local library.
Among autistic people employment is somewhere between 22 & 35% despite many of us having degrees or exceptional skill-sets. We desperately need to be directly supported in the work we do.
I personally have been financially exploited by neurotypicals who were making a LOT of money from my work. I hold a post-grad degree in autism.
@sentient_water@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd I agree that it's important to buy books by and support autistic authors. However, as far as I know, this is the first book to address this particular issue in this way. That will be even more true of its companion book on diagnosis. If you know of a different book that fills this role I'd be happy to learn of it.
Those look like excellent books and very worth reading. However, they don't address the issue of diagnosis - more specifically, how misunderstanding of diagnostic criteria keeps people from getting diagnosed. Do you know of any books by autistic authors that do this?
@meredithw@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd But the reason for the constant misunderstanding of diagnostic criteria is because NTs routinely ignore all the lived experience & knowledge of autistic people. They still hold those like Simon Baron-Cohen as the single greatest authority on autism despite every single one of his theories over the past few decades being both incredibly harmful & disproven.
I can't comment on this particular book you mentioned but I know from very painful experience how the Autism Industrial Complex both silences us & profits from us.
That's why these authors copiously quoted autistic people, referring to them as the experts. They are fighting misconceptions about autism and worked to include the lived experience & knowledge of autistic people. The authors also are not NT, although they aren't autistic.
A lot of people are neither NT nor autistic. For example, those of us with ADHD aren't NT. I know one of the authors has ADHD, I think one is dyslexic, I forget the specifics.
I know that ADHD and autism are different things. I never claimed they aren't. What I said is that people with ADHD aren't neurotypical. We aren't and have our own difficulties meeting NT expectations. I'm not saying they're the same as for autism nor comparing them in any way, just saying that ADHD is not NT.
@meredithw@Pathfinder@dbc3@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd Yes I know. Like I said I have a post-grad in autism but I wouldn't claim to speak for those with ADHD or any other condition I don't personally have. You've ignored a number of my questions now so I think I'd like to end this conversation.
Hey, I know a book by an Autistic author which addresses the DSM criteria! 🥳
It is a BRILLIANT book called 'But You Don't Look Autistic At All' by Bianca Toeps, an Autistic author and I really think it should be talked about more than it is.
The Adult Autism Assessment Handbook: A Neurodiversity-Affirmative Approach by Davida Hartman et al (2023) may be what you’re looking for. Collectively, the authors are neurodiverse, and a number of them are Autistic.
I have only heard amazing things about this book (from a wide variety of Autistic people). I’ve been waiting for my copy to arrive in the mail, and funnily, it was delivered just after I wrote the post. Flicking though it, it looks really good.
@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd my parents are clearly autistic. And the hardest part has been that senior living centers are ill-equipped to deal with their communication needs. I’ve told their carers repeatedly that they have to make sure my parents are paying attention before speaking or it will be like they never spoke at all. And they don’t. So my dad is constantly mad because “no one told him” when they had. To be fair, few autistics live to be 80 and fewer have the resources to end up in assisted living.
Is that a thing? I mean the "get my attention before telling or asking me something?"
I drive my wife crazy by either never hearing something she says she said, or noticing she's talking and saying "wait. Start over."
She says I don't listen and should pay better attention. One of my many flaws she hates.
@dbc3@cadenza@doggle@actuallyautistic@actuallyadhd This is a thing. More specifically, it seems to be an auditory processing thing which both I and my husband have. It's something similar to not being able to hear what a person says, when they say something unexpected.
With my husband, I have to be careful to signal before I change a topic, otherwise he struggles to hear what I'm saying. He's expecting me to say x, and I say y, he can't hear it!
And for both of us, when we're stressed, things need to be repeated, because usually the first time a thing is said, the other person wasn't ready to hear it, even if it's something as mundane as "do we need to get more cheese" or whatever.
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