Can we talk about how much the American healthcare system sucks?

So I have an ulcer. I dry heave at least once a day and I haven’t eaten in 21 days. (Please do not give me advice, I hate it, I don’t want medical advice from people over the internet. At best, if you do, I’ll respond with a “thanks.”)

I’m in a somewhat smaller town, not really small, about 80,000 people maybe. There is exactly one gastroenterologist in this town. I went to him when I hadn’t eaten in 6 days. For a $50 copay, he said to take some Mylanta along with the Protonix I was already taking and call him in two weeks if I wasn’t better. So I call him yesterday. I talk to the nurse. I tell her all my symptoms, none of which have changed. She sounds very concerned.

I hear nothing all day. This morning, I call again. The doctor hasn’t even gotten to my information. So the nurse sends a message that I called again, which he probably also won’t see.

I have tried to get a second opinion, or just another prescription for something, but there is not a single gastroenterologist within a 90 minute drive that would see me within three months. I’m pretty sure if I don’t eat for three months, I’ll be pretty dead. I mean, I’m living on Ensure and Gatorade, but I doubt that will get me to three more months.

Oh, and this is the second time this has happened. The first time, I had to take a bunch of tests like a CT scan and an X-Ray and a blood panel and they found nothing. I had a scheduled colonoscopy anyway, so they just went down my throat as well and that’s when they found the ulcer. No one even suggested an ulcer before that.

Why am I saying all of this? I’m not even complaining about all of this. I’m complaining about the fact that this has cost me almost $2000 already and I feel lucky because I have good insurance. I’m not poor, but I don’t really have $2000 to spare. I’m paying it off in installments, but god damn, I have to pay all of this money and they have stopped even giving a shit about me.

What would someone in my position without insurance even do? Die? That’s what conservatives fucking want.

We need universal healthcare and a complete overhaul of the healthcare system now.

And any time you hear someone complain about how long a wait you have in Canada or the UK to see someone to help you and how America has the best healthcare system in the world and how people from other countries come here for treatment, send them to this post before telling them to get fucked.

TL;DR No one gives a shit about you in American healthcare except maybe the nurses and all they do is suck money out of your bank account.

Mr_D_Umbguy,

deleted_by_author

    •
    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Terre Haute, Indiana. The armpit of the Midwest.

    jeffw,

    OECD data actually puts the USA in the middle of the pack for wait times for specialty care for developed nations. I believe it could largely be solved by companies switching to advanced access/open access scheduling models, but most are too afraid to upend their business model.

    Lmk if you have any questions about navigating appointments, I’m actually in grad school studying healthcare business. My only real suggestion at this point is to use your doctor’s electronic portal for communication. In many cases it’s more effective than a phone call, plus you have written records.

    I know you said no medical advice, but I’d ask a doc about H Pylori. Always something that should by ruled out in cases like these.

    negativenull,

    My gastroenterologist story:

    Chronic GERD. Talk to family doctor, who refers me to a gastroenterologist (one that is “in network” for my insurance"). My insurance is from my wife’s job, who works at a hospital, which you’d think was good. More on this tidbit later.

    Go to Gastro doctor (took 2 months to get in), recommends an Endoscopy, which is scheduled for 1 month later. Initial visit is covered (mostly/kind-of) by insurance.

    One day before Endoscopy, get a call saying my insurance won’t cover the procedure there, and I’d have to pay out-of-pocket if I proceed ($5k estimate). I say no thank you.

    I call insurance company about better location, and am referred to another gastroenterologist. I tried to just get an Endoscopy at new location, but they refused to do so with an Gastro doctor visit with THEIR doctors. I schedule visit at new office (1 month to get in).

    Go to NEW Gastro doctor, recommends an Endoscopy, which is scheduled for 1 month later. Visit is covered (mostly/kind-f) by insurance.

    One day before Endoscopy, get a call saying my insurance won’t cover the procedure there, and I’d have to pay out-of-pocket if I proceed. I say WTF. Turns out the Insurance company recommended me to a Doctor who was In Network, but their procedure location is NOT in network.

    Apparently, despite having a PPO insurance, there is “In Network” and there’s “in IN network”, since my insurance is through my wife’s hospital plan. I have to have the procedure at an official hospital location that is part of my wife’s hospital network.

    I schedule an endoscopy at a 3rd location (1 month out again). Finally get an Endoscopy completed.

    From initial referral to Gastro, until completion of Endoscopy, was 6 months. This was on supposedly good insurance (which was obviously a lie). We don’t have that insurance anymore.

    fadingembers,
    @fadingembers@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Did you ever figure out what the problem was? I have a very similar issue and a very similar story though the endoscopy just said yeah you got GERD bro lol and I’ve been taking meds that barely work ever since

    negativenull,

    Nope. The Endoscopy results said: “Evidence of Gerd present”, and gave me a prescription, that kind of works (sometimes).

    fadingembers,
    @fadingembers@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Oh god that’s so frustrating

    negativenull,

    I take the prescription (pantoprozole) as directed each morning, and then a Pepcid in the evening, if I happen to eat something that causes trouble. That more-or-less seems to work for me.

    fadingembers,
    @fadingembers@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Our prescriptions are pretty much the same! Panto morning and dinner time, pepcid before bed. Stay away from triggers or I’ll pay for it regardless if I take medicine or not

    slowd0wn,

    This kind of thing happens all too often. Going in for a surgery that your insurance will cover? Oops, we forgot to mention that the anesthesiologist is actually out of network, so you’ll have to pay out of pocket for that part.

    Blamemeta,

    Isn’t that like half the posts on lemmy? Some form of America bad?

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Did you not read what I wrote? Maybe $2000 in medical bills is nothing to you, but it’s a lot to me and my family.

    AA5B,

    What would someone in my position without insurance even do? Die?

    Even those who have good insurance and can afford …… my doctor’s office stopped refilling my prescription, stopped returning my calls, after he had expressed concern about not wanting me to “stroke out” over my condition. I doubt it magically fixed itself, but I’m still having a hard time overcoming inertia to find a new doctor

    norske,

    You’ve got my vote for M4A. My partner has all kinds of health issues and as I get older I’m getting more and more myself. It’s wild that most any diagnosis of any affliction is pretty much a financial death sentence for anyone but the wealthy. We are what I’d consider lower-middle-class and live very modest lifestyles. I feel like we live in bizarre-o world with how bad things are and everyone just keeps trucking along like everything isn’t coming apart at the seems.

    Furbag,

    I’ll commiserate with you on the fact that the healthcare system is totally broken. My Mom has had a problem with one of her leg nerves for over a year and a half now, and she has been going in to see specialists, getting told “this is what you have, here’s what we can do”, getting the prescription/treatment, having it not work at all, and then gets told to get back in line for another appointment with several weeks, if not months, of lead time. Even when she gets put on a priority list for when there are cancellations, there’s almost never a cancellation that let’s her get in earlier than her original appointment.

    In her case, I’m not blaming the doctors. They are trying their best. I just don’t understand how it can take 1-2 months per visit, or even upwards of 6 months, and meanwhile she is in agonizing pain whenever she stands or walks too long.

    Meanwhile, I just paid out $6k in dental bills this year alone because my regular dentist missed a cavity until it became bad enough that it required a root canal, but they tried to fill it first and it didn’t work, so then I had to pay for the botched filling procedure (partially covered by insurance), and a root canal that sadly doesn’t seem to have made the tooth any less sensitive, and copayment fees to other dental providers for second opinions because my tooth still hurts even after all they did to it and I want to know what else could do to help, and now I am looking at paying another $3000+ to have the tooth extracted and replaced with a prosthetic implant, which was an option in the first place but they encouraged me to try the fillings and the root canal to “save” the tooth first. Now, I’m trying to wait until January 1st to have my benefits reset so it softens the blow significantly, but until then I’m suffering with this zombie tooth rotting away in my mouth.

    The healthcare system in America is fucking garbage and needs to be destroyed and rebuilt with a human-first mindset, not a for-profit mindset.

    I hope you are able to get the treatment you deserve. Stay strong and stay positive.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks, I appreciate it. My father got $20,000 worth of dental work for free in Costa Rica and got a vacation in Costa Rica out of it.

    Agrivar,

    My father got $20,000 worth of dental work for free in Costa Rica and got a vacation in Costa Rica out of it.

    HOW?!? I probably need close to that much dental work done and there are literally no dentists in a 50-mile radius that are accepting new patients.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    This was 20 years ago. So I can’t help you there.

    DharmaCurious,
    @DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

    How free? My mom needs all of her remaining teeth extracted (23), plus dentures made.

    jeffw,

    If she’s old enough, Medicare will cover extractions and a single set of dentures per lifetime

    DharmaCurious,
    @DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

    She’s on Medicare due to disability, but they’ve told her they don’t cover dental. Any idea how we find out more?

    jeffw,

    Ah shit, I was think of my local Medicaid policy. Yeah, Medicare doesn’t usually cover dental, unless you’re on a Medicare advantage plan that includes it. If she’s got a disability, it might be worth looking at Medicaid, although not every state will have a plan that covers dental and not every state took the ACA expansion.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    He said, and as I told someone else, this was 20 years ago, that all medical care is provided free for everyone within Costa Rica’s borders.

    DharmaCurious,
    @DharmaCurious@startrek.website avatar

    Wow. That’s incredible.

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    we either use our government to fix this, by bullying the wealthy interests keeping things this way, or we are rapidly approaching a time when even basic healthcare is a luxury

    Jackthelad,

    I’ve never heard anyone say that the American healthcare system is the best in the world. Even from critics of universal healthcare.

    The best systems are mixed systems like you see in Germany or the Netherlands. As someone from the UK, don’t fall for the propaganda about the NHS. It’s really not very good.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s said by politicians.

    gravitas_deficiency,

    And you can tell when a politician is lying by whether or not their lips are moving

    merridew,

    It’s not very good now that the Tories have starved it of funds for over a decade with a view to selling it off.

    In 2005, Direct Democracy: An Agenda For A New Model Party was co-authored Jeremy Hunt Michael Gove, David Gauke, and Kwasi Kwarteng, among others.

    On page 78, it states that

    Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.

    And on page 74 asserts that

    patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, [should] purchase health care from the provider of their choice

    NHS c. 2009 was excellent. Don’t forget that.

    Jackthelad,

    Oh great, this conspiracy theory again.

    The one area of public policy in the UK that has unanimity between the parties is the NHS. Any party that “sold the NHS off” would be out of power for a long time. It would be electorally foolish.

    Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.

    So like the two countries I listed earlier then. Where they have universal healthcare provided by affordable insurance systems. Nothing like the US.

    patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, [should] purchase health care from the provider of their choice

    Wow. Patients given choice_? Perish the thought! You should be forced to have mediocre healthcare, peasant!

    NHS c. 2009 was excellent. Don’t forget that.

    Healthcare outcomes for diseases like cancer, heart disease etc were as low as countries in Eastern Europe. I don’t care how “efficient” a healthcare system is if it isn’t doing it’s main job of keeping people alive.

    merridew,

    Wow. Patients given choice? Perish the thought! You should be forced to have mediocre healthcare, peasant!

    Do you think private healthcare is illegal in the UK or something? Have you not heard of people going private?

    It is a bold move to say that “Tories want to privatise nationalised services” is a conspiracy theory, given the number of times they have already done it.

    • British Aerospace
    • British Gas
    • British Airways
    • British Petroleum (BP)
    • All 10 Regional Water Authorities
    • National Power
    • British Rail
    • Royal Mail
    • The National Probation Service
    • The Forensics Science Service

    ETA: They also tried it with the Forestry Commission.

    It was thought that British Rail was so beloved that no one would dare sell that off, too.

    Jackthelad,

    Yes, you can go private in the UK, but it’s more expensive than it could be because the private companies have to subsidise the NHS.

    They privatised those industries fairly quickly, why is it taking them so long to do it with the NHS, if it’s definitely going to happen as people keep telling me?

    Let’s be honest, it’s just scaremongering bollocks that politicians employ to get you to vote for them. Labour do it with the NHS, the Conservatives do it with the economy. It’s all shit.

    merridew,

    Em, no. No it isn’t. Private healthcare gets to cherry pick off all the more straightforward stuff (knee replacements, dermatology) but curiously enough is quite content for the NHS to handle all the expensive stuff (intensive care, trauma).

    It took over 40 years to privatise everything on that list. Not exactly “fairly quick”.

    Feel free to consider it “scaremongering bollocks” all you like, but be aware that government ministers literally wrote a book about how much they want to do it.

    And be aware everyone thought that British Rail would never be privatised, either. But of course it was. After it had been run into the ground through underfunding.

    PugJesus, (edited )
    PugJesus avatar

    I’ve never heard anyone say that the American healthcare system is the best in the world. Even from critics of universal healthcare.

    Count yourself lucky. I live in a conservative area in the US, and it is a constant refrain.

    Worst part is, these people bitch about their own healthcare quality and costs all the time. It's just...

    ... exhausting.

    Mog_fanatic,

    Second this. I’ve heard it many many many many times. “You may have to pay but you won’t wait and it’s the best in the world! People come from all over the world here for treatment!”

    AllonzeeLV, (edited )

    Just another symptom of how rigged our economy is!

    cnbc.com/…/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-americans-…

    Unless this is ever addressed, the symptoms will only get worse over time. The system is designed to siphon the nation’s capital to the owner class, they aren’t interested leaving you enough to get medical care, quality food, acceptable education, etc. You are nothing but livestock to the people that control this nation through the economy and the fully captured government, and they use it to make sure you don’t have a scrap for yourself.

    Rev3rze,

    Not even livestock. At least most farmers realise they need to keep their livestock healthy and fed in order to keep milking.

    AllonzeeLV,

    I lose people with my preferred term: disposable capital batteries.

    You’re 100% correct though

    BallShapedMan,
    @BallShapedMan@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s fucked and I’m sorry you’re a victim to it.

    There are small pockets where it doesn’t suck. My current company has amazing benefits where my youngest had to have major surgery and it literally cost $100. My previous company however my wife had to have minor surgery and 6 years later we still owe them $23k. We’re paying it off slowly…

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    $23k is insane. This is what I mean. It’s so broken.

    BallShapedMan,
    @BallShapedMan@lemmy.world avatar

    Very much so!

    Nemo,

    Honestly, I got much better and more attentive medical care when I was broke and on Medicaid than in the years since I got private insurance.

    Like you said, it takes forever to get an appointment (which might get cancelled without rescheduling) and when you do go in, they just refer you somewhere else, possibly out-of-network. At the Medicaid clinics, they do it all in-house and typically same-day.

    I’m fully on the Medicaid for All train.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d say Medicare for all. It’s even better than Medicaid.

    qyron,

    That was morally painful to read.

    As someone who lives in a country with a national healthcare system, this kind of situation just disgusts me.

    You’d probably be in an hospital bed here, waiting for emergency surgery, considering your condition.

    I sincerely hope you can find any other doctor capable of helping you, quickly.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I wish I lived in a sane country.

    dudinax,

    My doctor’s nurse called me up and said I had a high liver enzyme. “What does that mean?” “You can’t drink alcohol.” “But what’s going on with my liver?” “I don’t have the details, you’ll have to talk to the doctor.” The doctor moved away before I could get in to see her.

    I called her partner. “New patients are six months out.” Six month’s later: “Sorry the doctor moved away.”

    Pick a random doctor in the phone book. “New patients are six months out.” Six months pass. I miss the appointment. “I want to reschedule.” “Sorry, the doctor won’t see patients who miss their first appointment.” I’m trying to get in to the next doctor. So far I have no idea what’s wrong with my liver.

    Among other problems, it turns out our local health care group was bought out by venture capitalists. Their mismanagement is part of why so many doctors are leaving.

    Asifall,

    Might be worth trying to get the records, they’re legally obligated to give them to you on request.

    WoahWoah,

    You’re the person that made the “shitting out the neck of their shirt” comment that had me dying laughing. 🤣

    I’ve started just getting bloodwork done out of pocket instead of: going to a doctor, getting the blood work order, going to the lab, getting the draw, making an appointment with the doctor again, returning, and then getting the results.

    Now I just pay $50, get the results myself, and then go to a doctor if I need to address something in the results that I can’t figure out by googling. I know it’s absurd, and I have insurance, but to get one blood test is an hour to go to the doctor, wait, go to the clinic room, wait, talk to the doctor for 5min, leave, go to the lab, repeat, then go back to the doctor abs do it again. It ends up being like 3-4 hours over multiple days and in the middle of the workday. For the doctor, it’s two 5min conversations that are PART of their workday.

    So, yeah. I tend to just run my own diagnostic blood tests and Google. That’s how inconvenient and frustrating the medical system is even WITH insurance.

    And, to be clear, I don’t suggest anyone else do this.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    When I talked to the nurse yesterday, she asked how much Ensure I was drinking. I said I had a bottle twice a day. She said, “that’s all you’re having?” I asked if I should drink it more often and she said, “I would, but don’t take my advice because I’m not the doctor.” Gee, thanks lady.

    TranscendentalEmpire,

    Not defending the American medical system, or your specific provider, some are truly just in it for the money. However, the system kind of makes you complicit if you want to keep your doors open.

    Providers are leaving the field in droves, especially the specialist. Management usually has full control over your time, and tends to pack in more patients than it’s really possible to treat and follow up on. The compensation isn’t really a huge motivating factor, especially for younger providers. There are plenty more financially rewarding jobs out there that require a lot less schooling and working hours.

    I’m not saying that you need to do this, but if there are others in your situation who would like some advice…

    Two teaspoons of sodium alginate, one teaspoon calcium carbonate, and one teaspoon of baking soda mixed together via electric hand frother will create a thick slime that helps coat your stomach lining. It’s been proven to reduce the symptoms that cause ulcerations, and proven to aid other treatments for peptic ulcers.

    It also has the benefit of expanding in your stomach to make it feel as if you have eaten, which tends to help with some of the nausea.

    AttackBunny,

    I know you don’t want advice. I know, but, there are meal replacements, that aren’t nothing but sugar, corn and soy crap, and are much more nutritionally complete. May be worth looking into them. Huel and Soylent (sold in Target for sure) are the first that come to mind. I understand if your reply is “thanks” just wanted to throw that out there, because I feel your pain.

    I have ALL kinds of GI issues. The latest GI I saw, after waiting like 2 years during covid (had one appt before lockdowns, and then had to wait), and then another like 4 months after I called to book an appointment, ran a HIDA scan, which came back as low/abnormal. His answer? Oh, well it’s too close to normal to do surgery, so just take miralax and don’t eat fatty foods. Gee thanks, why didn’t I think of that, professionally trained guesser extortionist? When asked if there were going to be long term effects from taking a laxative, like, idk making constipation worse, his answer? IDK, maybe?

    Good luck

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t think I could handle Soylent from what I’ve seen and read about it. I can just about take the Ensure without feeling too sick. I think the sweetness actually helps.

    But now I’m just stunned. The gastro’s nurse just called me back and said first thing, “he wants you to have small and regular meals.” I don’t know how many more times I have to tell this asshole that I’m not eating.

    SkyezOpen,

    That’s a severe calorie deficit. A friend who had ulcers told me about ensure plus, it’s like 350 calories per bottle vs 220 for regular ensure. 3 or more a day should help keep you from wasting away while the medical system does what it does. The nurse probably isn’t legally allowed to give medical advice, but they absolutely know their shit and I would definitely listen to whatever “suggestions” they give you.

    Blaze,
    @Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Sorry to hear that…

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I appreciate it.

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