So I got a notification that a demo for Stellar Blade was available for download on the PlayStation store earlier today while at work right? So I’m like hell yeah, download that shit so I can play it once I get home.
Fast forward a few hours and I turn on my PlayStation once I get home and there is a notice from Sony saying ‘oops that demo wasn’t supposed to be available yet so we removed it from your account’
MFER! THE GAME WAS ALREADY ON MY CONSOLE!! SO YOU F**KS CAN JUST REMOVE MY WHOLE LIBRARY IF YOU WANT TO?!?!
mad about this. That should NOT be possible. F this gaming ecosystem we have nowadays. #Gaming#Rage
@sayonaraminasan Would you have felt better about it if a) they had sent down an account flag that removed your authorization to launch it b) it required an online license check on first run that get simply made fail or c) issued a mandatory patch that made it refuse to launch?
Sorry man but I respect the need for this kind of thing. Leaks can hurt people's livelihoods, for real.
Imagine this demo had a progression-blocking bug or major graphical issue. And they knew about it, which is why it wasn't supposed to release yet. And now every gaming journalist slams them for being bad at their jobs. And pre-orders get canceled.
@sayonaraminasan I know as a consumer it feels bad, but sometimes these things are irreparable if you can't pull them back quickly. Real jobs get lost. Real families get hurt. All because someone - possibly not even the dev, but Sony - forgot to change the calendar check after a bug was discovered
@neatchee@sayonaraminasan I don't really have a dog in this fight, but this logic can be taken in some pretty dark and disturbing directions. "Screw rights, think of the money" is how we got into a place where all this wretchedness is accepted in the first place.
@NullNowhere@sayonaraminasan that's....not at all what I said though. You don't have a right to keep a free demo that was accidentally leaked. Nor did I mention profits.
This isn't a black and white issue. I think you should have the right to hack your Playstation if you can and prevent the clawback. But I also think Sony should have the right to deny online connectivity to any device that has been hacked. And the right to try to keep you from being able to hack it.
I support right-to-repair. But I'm not going to stop people from trying to make sure that families don't lose their income over a single mistake by a single person
@neatchee@sayonaraminasan Your argument is the leaks should be retractable (Sony should have the write to modify your hardware and delete content, doing things I did not want them to do within my system) because "Leaks can hurt people's livelihoods, for real" That is basically saying "Think of the money". Yours, mine, Sony's, it doesn't matter: It's 'think of the money'. I have to ask what makes people in the game industry so important that everyone else has to take a hit for them?
It's actually a really clear issue. Techbroism and the scam shell-game called licenses have just rotted people's brains. Outside of any other context but software, analogous situations are pretty straight cut. You gave something to me. Then, you regretted it, and then you took it away. The only situation we really accept this in is Software and digital goods because our brains have been turned into stew by corporate lawyers telling people its moral as long as it is legal.
families don't lose their income over a single mistake by a single person
No offense, this is a politician's argument even in its wording. This happens in to every single company in every single industry, ever. Software does not get to be special. You take a salary from a company, you tie your fate to the actions and decisions of a whole lot of other people you have no control over. Yeah, capitalism is evil and it sucks. But the argument's inherent logic here is 'If we don't force them to take accounting of their mistakes, the companies will retaliate by harming their own people and say 'Look at what you made me do to them!". Honestly, that's extortion. We can apply the same logic to all kinds of regulatory penalties and bad behavior. It leads to really dark places.
@NullNowhere@sayonaraminasan There is a fundamental difference between physical and digital goods. And because of those differences, the people who make digital goods decided to include usage and licensing agreements when you buy or use their stuff.
You cannot apply the logic used with physical goods to digital goods. They are fundamentally different in nature.
I'm honestly not in a mental place where I can explain the nuance. But I've been on both sides of this issue. I've worked in games. I've pirated games. And I've hacked consoles.
I have thought long and hard about this and your implication that I've been duped is insulting
@NullNowhere@sayonaraminasan usage and licensing agreements are nothing new. They exist in all sorts of different spaces. Hell, purebred dog breeders will make buyers agree, under penalty of law, to return the dog if they plan to kill, sell, or abandon it. Do you feel that's a violation of your rights too?
I get that you don't like this situation. But that doesn't make it a natural right to keep something you've agreed not to (yes, the EULA covers this situation)
And it certainly doesn't give you the right to tell people who disagree with you that they aren't thinking for themselves
@neatchee@sayonaraminasan I find myself embarrassed to have to point out to you the banality of quoting legal arguments in the middle of moral arguments.
@NullNowhere@sayonaraminasan I'm not making a legal argument though. I'm telling you what actions have been taken - morally acceptable actions - have been taken. It just happens to be that those actions involve the law.
A legal argument would be "this is the law you're breaking and this is the proof"
A moral argument is "we have this moral problem so we made a law about it"
I'm done here. I don't feel like I can have a reasonable conversation with you anymore given your disrespect and misrepresentation of my position.
Please don't make me mute or block you. Let it go here
@neatchee@sayonaraminasan Look man, we have to agree to disagree or this is going to get toxic. You're working on a logic I fundamentally will not agree with, and vice-versa. I like you too much to get bitter. Hugs?
@NullNowhere@sayonaraminasan if this were just about the disagreement in our positions I'd say sure. But right now I'm offended for reasons having nothing to do with the core of our arguments. I'd prefer to just move past this at this point
@neatchee@sayonaraminasan No worries. I mean you no personal ill-will. I'm not being sarcastic or facetious when I say that I'm just some idiot on the web, and I am sorry that I offended you. Please have a good night.
@NullNowhere@sayonaraminasan Thank you for saying so. I take you at your word. And I'm not the type to hold grudges over relatively minor shit like this, so you don't need to worry about that. :CuteWave:
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