She still is? Being in to link has nothing to do with being ace. She may not have sexual desire or want sexual contact (which are VERY different things) is entirely seperate from the dynamics of a kink relationship.
Anon probably isn’t being malicious, but is definitely uniformed.
Claiming you are someone who doesnt feel sexual attraction and then asking someone to perform fetish activities is actually a very confusing thing for most people. He would be uninformed because its a very obscure situation to be in in the real world.
Maybe she isn’t explaining very well or maybe he is not believing what she says. At any rate, there is definitely communication problems here that need to be worked out ASAP if this relationship has any hope.
He would be uninformed because its a very obscure situation to be in in the real world.
I’ll admit to being bias, but I have lots of ace friends. Granted I am already part of the queer community and I take your larger point that allo people would have trouble understanding this, but we are less obscure than you might think. There is a lot of shame and stigma around saying “I don’t want to have sex”, most people take it as an invitation to “fix you”.To speak nothing of the boundary trouble allo/ace relationships have. I don’t know you, but I’d bet hard cash money that someone in your life is shades of ace.
Yeah, as a kinky asexual myself, it seems like she hasn’t been very open in communicating her relationship to kink. Especially when your partner is allosexual, it’s so important to explain why you like to participate in kinky activities as an asexual and where your boundaries begin and end.
For allosexual people, sex and kinks have a venn diagram that’s basically a circle, and failing to communicate the extent of your interest in kinks as an asexual is just setting the entire relationship up to fail because you’re inevitably going to have mismatching expectations from kink play unless you make sure you’re both on the same page before you start.
His confusion is completely understandable, as is her identity as a kinky asexual. They just need to talk to each other.
Honestly not even. I’m in a power exchange relationship and yes I find my mistress attractive, but our dynamic is to a scene what marriage is to sex. Yes there’s an implication we do it and all four are connected to us, but also I’m not getting off on being told to get her coffee when I want to stay in bed.
Why? I honestly don’t get it. I want my partner to be my best friend, but I don’t think about my other friends sexually even if I do love them like family.
I don’t want kids so I don’t think about partners in that respect. I do want them to be my last relationship though.
Edit: I’ll leave it, but I just continued to read the comments and found an answer I understand and agree with. I just never put enough thought into it I suppose.
No. Imagine two Catholics are dating and don’t want to have sex before marriage - are they just friends? There’s a lot more to romance than just sex, and I feel sorry for the partner of anyone who doesn’t realise this
Like it or not, sexual compatibility and intimacy is very important to a lot of people, and a lot of partners. There is more to a romantic relationship than sex, this is very true. However, downplaying the importance of a key component of a love language does no one any favors.
They aren’t downplaying its importance, they are saying that for some people, sex in a romantic relationship isn’t necessary. This doesn’t go for most people and most people do need it in a relationship but everyone’s experience is different
I mean, I’m asexual and intensely sex-repulsed, and my wife is asexual too, and I am madly in love with her even after being married for eight years.
It’s romance and friendship; she’s my best friend and wife. I’ll kiss her, hold her hand, rub her back and feet, buy snacks for her, loads of stuff I wouldn’t do with my friends.
I mean, I bought a house with her. I wouldn’t do that with just anybody.
i have a couple of ace friends into BDSM, i myself am somewhere on the ace spectrum. And i can tell you that BDSM can be enjoyed without sex or pain, power dynamics is where the best sauce is at
So, technically speaking, an ace individual cannot find someone sexy? They can have sex with someone for the sake of having sex, be it for bond or pleasure or whatnot, but from what you’re saying they do not show any sexual attraction towards any demographic of people?
There are grey-aces (whom are still aces; black-stripe ace sometimes is used to refer to those with no sexual attraction) whom experience some sexual attraction some of the time.
But there’s a lot of aces who are surprised to realize sexual attraction is something people actually experience.
I always feel a bit confused by the name, and wonder whether it will eventually see itself focused or broadened further. Sexuality is a spectrum, but “asexual” doesn’t seem, overtly, to include sexual desire given its literal meaning. I do love the names of the sub-identities associated with it, though. Each one’s intention and definition feels apparent and up to date.
Sexualities generally refer to sexual attraction. Homosexuals are sexually attracted to people have the same gender, not to repeating the same sex acts over and over and heterosexuality is about attraction to people with different genders, not to novelty sex acts. Pansexual does not mean attraction to pans not to literally everyone or everything. Taking the words too literally is not really useful.
The differentiation of the ace/allo axis and the sex-favorable/sex-repulsed axis is particularly useful for aces, but it still has its use for allos as well (some people who have PTSD related to sexual activity may be sex repulsed, but can still experience sexual attraction). Lots of reasons to engage in and enjoy sex other than attraction to a specific person. Even allos often engage in sex with those whom they aren’t attracted to.
The major ace subreddits regularly had issues with sex-favorable people complaining about all the posts being sex-negative and sex-repulsed people (sometime simultaneously) complaining about too much sex-positive content. Would be more amusing if those types of posts didn’t waste so much space…
If sex is something at least one party desires. No one should be pressured into sex they don’t want, but no one should feel bad leaving another person over the lack of sex either.
I’m going to go out on a limb and feverently disagree with you here.
This is like saying “yes, gay men can still have sex with women, as long as they’re not attracted to them. They’re still gay! It’s only a name!”
It’s an awful precedent. The amount of times I’ve been asked if I’m “one of those asexuals who have sex” is gross. I identify as asexual because the name itself was… what I was. I can no longer safely identify with it now because it apparently includes everybody.
Aces can have sex. Yes. There are caveats and disclaimers, but that’s not untrue. But there’s no such thing as “grey asexual”. That’s greysexual. It’s a separate thing.
“Asexual” becoming “inclusive” to almost everything muddies the waters.
I’m not against sex-favorability— I am against not being able to use the label to distinguish clear what I identify as anymore. It’s frustrating as hell.
This is like saying “yes, gay men can still have sex with women, as long as they’re not attracted to them. They’re still gay! It’s only a name!”
Well… That’s correct, though. It might be a little easier to see if you consider the stereotype of male-on-male sex in prisons or militaries. Or, to keep closer to your example, a homosexual man having sex with a woman just to see what it’s like. Or because he’s closeted and trying to conform to social pressure. There are lots of reasons to have sex with someone, and having sex with people of a particular gender does not necessarily determine your sexuality, if sexual attraction is not one of them. I mean, sure, a gay man having sex with lots of women for apparently no other reason than that he likes it might be a little sus, but, like, you might just not know what’s going on.
The amount of times I’ve been asked if I’m “one of those asexuals who have sex” is gross.
I agree that that’s gross. But not because it implies that it’s valid for asexuals to like sex. It’s gross because that is a weirdly intimate detail to just ask casually about, regardless of your sexuality.
because it apparently includes everybody.
No. Only those who don’t feel sexual attraction towards others. Regardless of whether they like having sex or not.
I am against not being able to use the label to distinguish clear what I identify as anymore
If the “not having sex” part is important to you, what’s wrong with identifying as “sex-repulsed asexual” instead of just “asexual”? Sounds like that would already solve your problem
Why do people whose sexual preference is “no” have to add an extra tag to what was already a perfectly useable term? Why overcomplicate?
Sexual people have decided that the term is now their term as well, when it was previously a safe way to say in one simple word “I’m not into sex at all”.
This is just bullying people away from their own term, because we’re after a way to clearly communicate no.
The examples you gave are of desperation and exploration. If you try sex and decided “Yes, I like this” then that’s not a sexual preference of “no”.
It’s not bad to be sexual. At all. In fact, most people are and THAT IS OKAY.
It is annoying (and harmful, because it encourages people to see “asexual” as “still likes sex for my sake!”) to take the word “asexual” and say “Yes asexual people still want sex!”
Let people who don’t like sex have one safe way to say it without being lumped in with a sex-enjoying group. Please. Why is it so important to take that away.
What’s wrong with just saying “I don’t want sex” or “I’m sex repulsed”? You make it sound like that’s unsafe in some way, and I don’t understand why, so I feel like I’m missing something here.
Nobody wants to take anything away from you. Sex-favorable people who don’t experience sexual attraction just also want to have a label for themselves. If they’re not allowed to call themselves asexual, what do you propose they call themselves instead? Graysexual would be wrong since that would mean experiencing sexual attraction to some degree at least some of the time.
Because I don’t want to have to continually explain my orientation to people? Like, holy shit, why the hell is this particular label a whole goddamn spectrum that I have to pull out a chart to explain??
“I’m gay”, “I’m bi,” “I’m lesbian”, “I’m pan” — that’s concise with no need to explain further! I’d LOVE to say “I’m asexual” without having them be like “Oh but you can still be kinky and have sex, right?” Literally all meaning is lost.
In a world where sex & relationships are deeply intertwined, I just want to be understood and have a space with people I can relate to without all that being something I’m forced to constantly wade through.
I don’t even want to be asexual, alright? It’s difficult enough as it is. I just want a goddamn word. Ffs…
why the hell is this particular label a whole goddamn spectrum that I have to pull out a chart to explain??
I’m sorry that humans and human sexuality are complicated, I guess? Asexuality is just a little bit different in that there’s significant spread in sex-favorability, which just is not the case as much with the other orientations. Again, if you really want the label all for yourself, please tell what label sex-favorable aces should use instead in your opinion, I’m genuinely curious.
But also, I still don’t see how just a quick addition of “and sex-repulsed” is that much harder. It is literally three words. If the other person doesn’t respect that, that likely wouldn’t have been any different with a shorter label.
take the word “asexual” and say “Yes asexual people still want sex!”
Yeah but nobody is doing that. More accurate would be “Asexual people might still want sex, if it’s important to you, please ask (appropriately)”.
If you want “asexual” to exclusively mean people who feel no sexual attraction and are sex-repulsed, then what would you propose people who experience no sexual attraction who are still sex-favorable or sex-neutral should call themselves? Like, I’m sympathetic to your frustration, but they also deserve a label
we’re after a way to clearly communicate no.
There is, it’s saying “I don’t want sex” or “I’m sex repulsed”. It’s even better because anyone can use that regardless of their sexual attraction, even.
This is like saying “yes, gay men can still have sex with women, as long as they’re not attracted to them. They’re still gay! It’s only a name!”
But that’s true. Straight men can and do have sex with men and that should be accepted as normal. Etc. Nothing wrong with that. What would be a problem is if people were to try to pressure people into having sex outside their sexual orientation. Because its wrong to pressure people into having sex. Doesn’t matter their orientation. But you seem to be suggestion that its okay, as long as aces get left out.
It’s an awful precedent. The amount of times I’ve been asked if I’m “one of those asexuals who have sex” is gross.
Some people don’t have boundaries and don’t know basic sexual etiquette. Acknowledging diversity exist no more justifies asking aces you barely know than it justifies asking trans people about their genitals. And yet, somehow people seem to somehow just forget basic etiquette when they meet queer people. As if our existence is either inherently sexual, so simply existing means we started the sexual conversation in their mind (even when we’re aces somehow) or we’re subhuman and don’t desire basic courtesy/privacy. That said, some guys are really just that direct with each other and think its normal.
But there’s no such thing as “grey asexual”. That’s greysexual. It’s a separate thing.
Asexuality is used both a specific label and an umbrella term that includes both.
“Asexual” becoming “inclusive” to almost everything muddies the waters. I am against not being able to use the label to distinguish clear what I identify as anymore. It’s frustrating as hell.
Sounds about as valid as transmeds/truscum being upset that NBies and people who want something slightly different than them are under the same umbrella of “trans” and that they would need to use “binary” to qualify more specifically what they want to communicate.
If you’re queer you should be supporting us aces, not acting like we’re some sort of anomaly yeah? It may not be your cuppa but we’re all on the same side here
My sexual preference Is “no” and I have to say that instead of asexual because sexual people have decided that the prefix “a” in front of the word “sexual” does not mean “not sexual”.
What used to be safe spaces for people whose sexual preference is “no” are now filled with people whose sexual preference is “yes, but I don’t feel horny by looking at people”.
And if anyone dare speaks up they get bullied, called acephobic, and told to just accept asexual people are sexual too and how dare we say please use a different label for that.
I am far from the only one who’s noticed this. It also leads to things like romantic asexuals (people who want a romantic relationship just without sex) having a harder time than they already did because people are learning “Oh your ace? But you’ll have sex for ME, right?”
Why can’t aces be both? The “sexual” in sexual orientations has always referred to attraction. Sex repulsed aces are like victim-playing US Christians in most of the interactions I see. They bully and make fun of anyone who has sex and then play the victim when asked to not insult others.
You ever feel hungry but you’re not sure what to eat so you stare blankly into the fridge hoping something takes your fancy, but you’re not really craving anything because you never really get cravings. But you are hungry, so you want to eat something, so you have a choice, you can grab a protein shake because it’s quick, easy, and a pragmatic solution, but that gets boring when that’s always your “go to” when you’re hungry. Or you could order a decadent meal to enjoy, since you’re not really craving anything so you might as well set yourself up for a pleasurable experience.
Now replace being hungry with being horny.
You’re horny, but you don’t have any attraction to any options, and you never have. You could go for the pragmatic approach with masturbation. Or you could find someone that you think is a great person in all the important (non sexual) ways, and have sex with them because sex with fun people is fun, even if there’s nothing about that person (or any person) who flicks the sexual attraction switch.
Sexuality in general is best seen as a spectrum, and that even applies to asexuality. I’ve met folks who only find sexual attraction in people they are intimately familiar with (can’t whack the nasty with any random people, they gotta trust and be comfortable and familiar with a partner). Others have a complete lack of sexual interest and arousal. I, myself, do have an active libido, but no actual interest in sex itself thanks to bad events in my past.
BDSM is much less about sex and much more about the power dynamic. Kinks are, by definition, having sexual arousal from non genital things. So while asexuals might not be interested in fuckin or getting fucked, other things might cause arousal.
The way I usually describe it as an asexual guy is that there’s basically noone I find hot. That doesn’t mean they’re the opposite. It just like a sense I lack or a color I can’t see. I just don’t feel sexual attraction. But I do still like people based on other types of attraction and sex is still fun. For me platonic attraction is the main criteria for sexual partners. It’s just a fun activity between close friends like watching a movie or playing a board game.
That’s not to say that there aren’t asexual people who don’t like sex because those people do exist, but how much a person likes sex is on the sex repulsion to sex favorable axis and is only tangentally related to asexuality.
Could you elaborate further on platonic attraction? The internet says a platonic relationship is a relationship without romance or sex. This seems to contradict with it being a criteria for sexual partners for you but maybe I’m confusing things
I guess platonic isn’t the right word but it’s the closest I could think of at the time. I guess maybe emotional attraction? A person I care deeply about who I enjoy being around and feels the same towards me. Basically a relationship for me is just a best friend who I also happen to have sex with and thats what I look for personally.
But the main thing is the lack of sexual attraction. Other sex favorable ace people may deal with things differently. I personally know one asexual aromantic woman who doesn’t care who she screws because like I said before, a lack of attraction doesn’t make people unattractive, it’s just null. So for her basically everyone is the same so she’ll just take whoever to meet her needs whenever she’s horny and just be done with it. From what I’ve seen in the ace community that definitely isn’t common but it is a good example of just how different the the stance on sex between different asexual people can be.
Platonic seems fine with me. If you just see sex as another activity to do, like playing board games or TTRPGs, then it makes sense. As hikaru pointed out, the relationship itself wouldn’t be platonic, but the attraction can be.
Granted, I say this as someone who does not engage in sex (and honestly not sure how ace I may or may not be).
I guess it is. I personally have a very hard time drawing a line between liking someone as a really good friend and liking someone romantically. For me the only difference between a best friend and a romantic partner is if romantic activities (kissing, sleeping together, screwing, etc.) are taking place and even then some of those lines get blurry with some of my friends.
If you label a relationship as platonic, that usually serves to make it explicit that there’s no romance or sex going on, yes.
When talking about attraction though, we’re in the context of the split attraction model (look that up if you’re interested), and there, platonic attraction is treated not as the opposite of sexual attraction, but as its own axis for basically saying “how much do I want this person to be my friend”, without saying anything about how much you’re sexually attracted to the person.
If you want to properly reconcile the terms, think about it like this - a sexual/romantic relationship is one where the sexual/romantic attraction between the partners is the strongest force, whereas a platonic relationship is one where their platonic attraction is the strongest force.
I personally actually have a hard time seeing platonic and romantic attraction as separate axes, for me, romantic attraction just feels like an extension, a stronger form of platonic attraction.
for me, romantic attraction just feels like an extension, a stronger form of platonic attraction
Oh yes I’m completely with you on that one, i think… but then I also feel like for me personally sexual attraction is an extension of romantic attraction. It’s all about how you interpret your feelings I guess…
That’s a lot of it. Like sex is also just a good way to acheive intimacy with someone you care about.
The big thing for asexual people is how you view people you aren’t already attracted to in other ways. Most people can find people they barely know sexually attractive. For example celebrity crushes or finding a certain porn model hot. For an asexual person that is a foreign concept. I’ve never seen someone and desired to have sex with them because of how they look. It’s not that we don’t know when people are good looking but we don’t really feel anything towards them just because they are. That’s also not to say asexual people never watch porn it’s just that when we do it’s about the act taking place not the people in it.
Yeah that makes sense. I’m not sure about sex but I definitely can desire intimacy only based on looks or general vibe so then I guess I actually do feel some kind of romantic attraction separately from platonic attraction.
What’s the difference between that and being demisexual? I identify as demi, but now I’m wondering if I misunderstood something, because I relate to what you said.
Most people define demisexual as not feeling sexual attraction until you get to know someone better, after which that bond/intimacy allows you to start feeling sexual attraction.
But the ace community has a LOT of labels and everything I’ve seen is that we’re pretty relaxed on them. Call yourself whatever makes sense to you; you’re probably going to have to explain it anyway! lol
Demisexuality is under the asexuality umbrella, so it should seem relatable.
If you do experience sexual attraction towards those you are close to then that would be demi. If you want to have sex despite lack of sexual attraction, then that would be black-stripe ace.
The food analogy is the comparison I’ve seen people use to explain what sexual attraction is. Hunger is like libido and has little to nothing to do with sexual attraction. Sexual attraction would be like when someone brings out a fresh cake and you need to have a piece even if you just ate and are not hungry. I guess demi in this analogy would mean you wouldn’t feel that way unless you already knew that specific dessert well. But if you just eat tasty desserts when you are bored, because you like the taste but don’t have the mouthwatering reaction to it being presented, because the person who made it is important to you and you feel eating it’s a way to bond with them, etc, you could still be a black-stripe ace.
That said, what counts as sexual attraction has confused me a lot despite spending a fair bit of time reading people trying to explain it.
Anyways, if demi is a functionally useful label, there no need to change. In-practice real-world usefulness of language is more important than weirdos on the Internet trying to be precise in the meanings of words.
I actually just saw this (app being screwy). To answer your question I also identify as demi. It’s just that demi is a microlabel under the ace umbrella and allos usually don’t know what demisexuality is so unless I’m in a specifically ace community I just identify as ace to keep things simple. Demi is also basically just “ace until proven otherwise” so the difference in nonexistent for anyone I’m not already in a relationship with.
There’s also the fact that I’m still not sure if I really feel sexual attraction in the demi way or if I just crave intimacy with someone I am otherwise attracted to and sex is one of the most intimate things you can do with someone. I’m strongly leaning towards the latter but it’s a tricky distinction to make. I can want to have sex with someone but for me that desire doesn’t feel much different from wanting to cuddle with them nonsexually. So when it comes to my actual behavior I fit the demi label better but when it comes to how I think then I actually fit the asexual label better.
BDSM != sex, even if the two are heavily connected in a lot of people’s minds. I’ve played with both tops and bottoms that were ace/het/LGBT, and there was not anything sexual there. Hell, one of my fave experiences was bottoming for a lesbian top who enjoyed beating on dudes.
BDSM is not inherently sexual, even if there can be a lot of sexuality involved.
I love getting beat by confident women (presenting people), and never expect anything more than that. Being somewhat demi helps a lot with that aspect, but it’s just basic respect for an ephemeral play partner in my mind.
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