I don’t even understand the pitch? you have the disc playing, in your hands, your ownership, no buffering, no subscription required. and they’re saying…hey do you want a worse experience?
This was with only ~1 hour of TV watching, while the device in the third spot is my phone (which I had been using all day). And yet the second TV still had almost 3x as many blocked requests.
It’s easier than ever these days. The hardest part is figuring out how to configure your router to point devices to it. Because router manufacturers love to bury that setting somewhere deep. For actually setting up the pihole, it’s usually just a matter of flashing the memory card with the right image, then finding some decent block lists. But even the block lists are easy to find nowadays.
Or worse, you have an ISP-provided modem + router that has it locked down. Yes I could buy a router and put it the modem in bridge mode blah blah, so I just configure each device manually.
Yeah, the combined modem/routers are almost all garbage. You really are better off bridging it and letting your own router do the work. Because the ISP has a vested interest in giving you the cheapest router possible.
It’s actually not that bad; I certainly wouldn’t choose it (it’s an Arris) but I don’t want to put $400 down for a router. (I have no idea what a router costs. I’d also spend a month researching the exact perfect router and then take weeks with custom firmware and configuration and miss spending time with the family.)
I’d also spend a month researching the exact perfect router
Every time I do this I come away disgusted with how trash most technology is and just how awful manufacturers are willing to make the experience just to get those precious data harvesting bucks. See also: this thread. Womp womp.
If it helps, mine was like $150 and it’s pretty solid upper-mid-range (asus rt-ax82u) right out of the box with minimal setup. My partner got a $400 ish one because he’s very high level IT, and wanted it for remote work, and it’s way overkill even for his use (but as long as the hardware doesn’t fail or the standards change, it’ll be good for a long time no matter what speed increases/demands happen). I guess if you simultaneously stream a lot up/down or need something capable of supporting a small office of people, but if not the mid-range routers are pretty good, lots of options, QoS features, and mine has its own built-in vpn host that can be set up if not running something like openvpn (tho it can also handle those). Dunno if thats standard these days, but it certainly makes my pihole more useful, since I can use it on my phone when I’m not home.
Really, if you go with something made for a purpose that’s a bit beyond your own use (in my case, gaming model because it’s designed for online multiplayer with low latency and a house full of connected devices, which is well beyond my own streaming of solo games), it’ll at least be better than the combined models (which are very low end), and probably way more than you actually need, so you have room to grow if desired. Plus in the long run it’ll be significantly cheaper since you won’t be paying $5/mth for something you never own (I assume that’s what you are being charged as that’s standard around me). It pays for itself in ~2-2.5years, depending what you get, and after that it’s all savings, since a decent router can be good for considerably longer than 2 years.
While these things generate more network traffic than they ever should, you should check what traffic is actually being blocked.
When I looked into my TV, the thing that’s being blocked is actually just the live program database (which Sony put under the same domain as their tracking bullshit). If it can’t reach the internet, it waits for five seconds and tries again.
Big numbers don’t necessarily mean intended privacy invasion. Especially if you’ve added one of those Smart TV blacklists without looking up what addresses and features they actually block.
Proof? There are other (some equally creepy) ways that it could get this info. Depending upon how the DVD player is connected, it could simply be getting info from that. It could also be taking occasional screenshots. There are other things as well.
Edit: poster below links to Roku and they use screenshots.
You can, but don’t forget to also block other outbound DNS connections in your firewall. Lots of “smart” devices are hard coded to use 8.8.8.8 regardless of what DHCP says. Pihole won’t stop those, so you have to block it at the firewall.
I fucking hate my Roku Tv. One of my roku TV became unusable after software update. Can’t be rolled back. I’m just stuck with a perfectly fine screen and shit software. And yes even connecting another device via HDMI is an issue because the TV restarts randomly for “updates” while watching external sources.
No, you can’t. I’m running pihole and have a TCL Roku tv connected via HDMI to an Apple TV, and the ROKU APP RECOGNIZES CONTENT FROM IT and makes the suggestion, overlaying it OVER THE HDMI STREAM.
I have an old Roku Express or something similar and love it. It has an RF remote and a very responsive UI. But it is slowly becoming crappier with the infrequent updates.
Those channels precisely. They get ad revenue when you watch it on their channels. If they can get Roku to bring them traffic, Roku would charge for that. No engineering effort goes unpaid.
The pitch doesn’t need to make logical sense. The entire purpose of horrible shit like this is so some asswipe with a marketing degree can say “look boss, I did a thing”. Welcome to late stage capitalism, where no one ever gets fired for shoving another advertisement in somewhere.
Pihole or similar DNS blocking. I can’t recommend it enough. My smart TVs are the #1 offender on my network. The only thing that will try to pull in more ads are my wife’s mobile games.
Even if you must own a smart TV (because it’s impossible to buy a large-ish TV anymore that isn’t), I see no reason to actually connect it to any network. But! I notice recent models will bitch at you on every single power on if you leave them disconnected. So you’re not even safe from being annoyed then.
If you take away their data mining and advertising revenue, you’re going to need to pay extra. Especially if you’re in a high end market segment (humongous TV) where there’s little demand for a dumb TV outside the digital signage industry (which tends to demand higher standards because those things are always on).
The cheapest and easiest workaround is to get one of those Google TVs that has the ability to switch back to “basic TV” mode. That way you can get a TV from the consumer segment, subsided by other people’s use of smart features.
You could also DIY a dumb TV by getting a compatible TV, ripping out the internals (don’t kill yourself by shorting out the power supply!), and replacing them with an HDMI controller board from sites like AliExpress.
That’s the route I took. I recently bought a 48" 4K monitor, hooked a mini PC up to it, and now I stream my movie and TV show collection through Plex. I still have Internet access on my “TV,” but I’m in control of what pops up (I block all ads on my home network). I just use a small wireless keyboard and mouse instead of a remote.
I haven’t actually owned a TV since about 2008. I have better media options through computers, and the technology just keeps getting better. Cable and public access television are a pain because you’re constantly bombarded with ads. With my own computer, I can circumvent ads and get a solid viewing experience.
That’s a great way to go. There are also still some budget options (Sceptre comes to mind) that don’t have any smart features in some models. My buddy just picked one up.
It’s an absolutely terrible TV, but for his use case it’s perfect. He’s using it as a karaoke monitor for parties at his house. It’s mounted in a covered patio and is dumb as hell.
If I found out a TV required internet access to function, I'd return it to wherever I bought it next day.
Luckily I have a old-ish flatscreen that doesn't require internet but does have a netflix and other channels I can setup if I want. The Netflix client is so old it won't connect to their servers any more. That's OK. My Roku still works.
The TVs I’ve seen that do this have been smart enough to not get naggy about a lack of Internet until 30+ days after first power on. Then you get popups or autoplay videos begging you to connect it.
My Hisense has been pretty decent, surprisingly. But for my next TV I’m honestly thinking of going with a commercial display.
I bought a 65" HiSense last month. I was psyched the first time I set it up, and it gave me the option to configure it as a dumb TV without the Android TV experience or a network connection.
I’m tempted to do a master reset on mine to see if I got that option. I have the Roku edition and I know that I can specify what source it defaults to on power on. I can also turn off content recognition, which is what’s going on in OP’s case. But using it as just a dumb TV would be awesome.
Theres definitely a setting for turning off content recognition... but... even if I say "no", I don't trust my dogs not to eat food I leave within reach.
These companies want the data, they profit from the data, they probably won't get caught if they take the data, and even if they do they won't get punished, and even if they do it'll still be worth it. You have to turn off the network or block the traffic to be sure.
I have yet to see one that won’t eventually let you use it as a dumb display after you dismiss one (or more) nags first. But I’m sure that’s coming eventually. The worst offender I found yet is the “cheap” Black Friday sale Amazon Fire TV my boss got to use as a security monitor in one of our satellite locations. That fucking thing won’t even show a picture until you dismiss its network nag, and then its sign-in-with-Amazon nag. At least I found you can disable the Amazon account nag in the options. The network connection one you can’t.
We’ve just resolved never to turn it off. You can’t dismiss the nag screen with the bezel buttons, either. You have to use the remote, so that’s now permanently double-stick taped to the desk the TV is on.
Next time he’ll just buy a fucking computer monitor like I told him to.
Samsung is quite terrible at this. Even when you tell it to just show what’s on the HDMI input, it’ll do some kind of smart device detection on the HDMI signal with an infinite progress spinner before it’ll actually display anything. You can disable it per device by manually assigning a device type, but the damn thing has amnesia.
The basic mode of Google TV and LG’s WebOS seem fine to me, though.
I think newish tvs offer advanced image quality features like HDR and Dolby Vision through their own apps rather than through web browser; if you don’t have a new generation console in your house and wanna enjoy your new TV full capabilities you will need to connect the damn thing to the internet
I have an LG C3 and that thing is amazing; the issue with HDR/Dolby Vision/etc is not because LG, but rather that you need a system that has an app that supports those capabilities, like if you have a subscription to Apple TV and don’t wanna connect your TV to the internet you need an Nvidia Shield/Apple TV/PS5/Xbox series X because just a HTPC won’t do it because the web browsing app doesn’t offers HDR and the Apple TV Windows app is trash
Thankfully mine (about two yrs old now) only whined for the first couple weeks then gave up on me.
Now the only issue I have is the time it takes for android to boot. It’s like having to wait for your tv to warm up all over again except without the high pitched noise old tv sets had.
I agree with you for the most part that there’s no reason to connect them to the internet, however:
Most modern TVs have Bluetooth and WiFi radios, therefore they’re never truly isolated, and consequently that means if there’s a security flaw, it can potentially be exploited without physical access.
Now your priorities (and frankly, hardware) will obviously differ from mine, but that risk alone is enough of a reason for me to connect things up in order to receive software updates. Of course, the privilege of getting software updates for your telly is not ubiquitous, but most manufacturers can issue updates if there is a good enough reason to do so
If its never been connected to the internet…wtf are they gonna do if they hack it? what are they going to get? it will have no credit card information, no personal information of any kind.
The problem is that because the hardware is there, a determined person with physical access can change the settings to join a network you don’t control.
Ideally, you can open the TV and remove the wifi modules but I suspect that might be beyond the skills of most TV owners.
Tbh, I stopped owning a TV since college. I watch everything on my computer or phone now.
Wait…so the fear here is that they will take my tv, that i don’t have connected to the internet and…connect it to a network i don’t have? Whats the point of going through that trouble? Whats the gain?
Those radios may have a flaw that allows someone to connect to them without direct physical access, wardriving is a similar idea. Particularly the Bluetooth stack, since modern TVs often use Bluetooth for their remotes, so it’s always going to be powered and active.
Then you’ve got to remember a lot of TVs have shit like cameras and mics now days. Even without that, if an attacker can take control of something with a WiFi radio, it can become a jumping point to exploit other devices near your TV. I mean it doesn’t even need to be an exploit, e.g. if your phone disappears from WiFi range, maybe you’ve gone out—that’s a good time to rob you.
Sure it’s all pretty unlikely, but it’s a non zero threat. Particularly when you consider that TV OS software is often like swiss cheese when it comes to security.
Ads 20 years ago are just some dumb gify banners. Now your hdmi input got sniffed by your tv and identified by some fancy ai stuff in order to serve you the most profitable ads. I’m excited to see what kind of innovative ads we’ll experience 20 years from now /s
If only there was a marketplace of ideas to determine what patents were worth anything. Maybe some invisible hand all those libertarian privacy nuts are always on about.
“we see your penis is below average in length and girth; click OK on your remote or say ‘more information’ to learn about how to fix that” as you step into your bedroom to get dressed
Sledge. Because where we going we don’t need control.
Also what’s a slippery slope when our privacy has been slowly getting invaded more and more. Imagine telling people from 30 years ago their vhs player know what they watch and an ads from Blockbuster will popup on screen recommending them what to rent next, and the internet keep track on where you visit and know what you like.
Telling people at blockbuster, where they kept track of your rental history and sent the information to movie studios, to rent movies that had unskippable pre-roll ads, you had to rent from a store filled with promotional material for what you should rent next, and then you had to rewind it all the way for the next victim XD
Also the quality was shit, the screen was tiny, the lines were long, the human interaction was insufferable, the late fees were exorbitant, and the hardware was expensive and a unitasker.
Don’t gaslight me about the good old days, I remember my dad walking behind the curtain.
When I tested a roku (I think that’s what this is, based on the button and color) stick a few years ago, it was awful - network errors during setup, atrocious password limits, and once I completed setup it had a ad that took 1/4 of the home page and it wouldn’t calm the fuck down pinging servers even when idle. I actually returned it the next day, I wanted my like $40 back.
My ex bought one a couple years later and I cringed so hard. No way in fuck I’d let that infestation on my network again.
Oh, more of a “I thought you loved me” and a dash of “I didn’t sign up for this” after I had a stroke. Love is cheap to some… sometimes the one closest to you.
Never used the Roku stick, but I used their high end wired Internet model for a long time and it was great for what it was. I haven't tried any of the stick devices because I always questioned the performance they would have.
Pihole alone wasn’t sufficient to block my Chromecast (damn thing is hardcoded to 8.8.8.8), I had to reroute the traffic in my firewall. I imagine Google TV and similarly data hungry TVs have the same problem.
That’s the reason i bought a dumb tv. No i don’t need those subpar computer running my tv with a chance of crashing and which i can’t control what fuckery they do, i have my PC tq.
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