Don’t cry over it. I live in Europe so I’ll get it but the thing is that Apple will most likely force people into some kind of bullshit certificate that you’ve to buy in order to be able to sideload.
If you read the legal document about side-loading then Apple could be considered in compliance if they just decided to create a “sideloading program” where you can apply and pay for a special certificate with a vetting process and a lot of restrictions (being a company over a certain size etc). Essentially the same as the current Enterprise program but extended to allow 3rd party stores and distribution of App to random users not part of the same organization.
The legislation won’t stop them from doing this and it will effetely only be used by large companies that can go through the vetting process and pay the ridiculous amounts of money that Apple will be asking for.
Why would you assume the legislation won’t stop it, they have iteratively corrected legislation to mandate it’s original intent plenty of times, most recently they’ve begun looking at cookies because the banner wasn’t the intention of the lawmakers.
Why would you assume the legislation won’t stop it, they have iteratively corrected legislation to mandate it’s original intent plenty of times
Because just for starters Apple even tried to argue they shouldn’t be subject to the legislation because they didn’t have one store but multiple stores. Same with iMessage and whatnot.
If you read the legal document about side-loading then Apple could be considered in compliance if they just decided to create a “sideloading program” where you can apply and pay for a special certificate with a vetting process and a lot of restrictions (being a company over a certain size etc). Essentially the same as the current Enterprise program but extended to allow 3rd party stores and distribution of App to random users not part of the same organization.
most recently they’ve begun looking at cookies because the banner wasn’t the intention of the lawmakers.
Yes but do you know what happens? Due to the way the EU works and our constitutions and agreements work we’re talking about at least one year of discussions about the issue and then a 3 year period where countries will have to study what was decided by the European Commission and pass national legislation about it. Then you’ll have a transition period like (2 more years) until such legislation goes in effect (deadline). So we’re talking about around 5 years to get anything practical. We’ve seen this with USB-C - even before there was USB-C the EU was in talks to adopt a single port (at the time Micro/Mini USB) and it all took about 10 years to unfold.
Apple is very good as twisting things and what’s currently written on the proposal doesn’t force Apple to open up iOS to be a generic platform like macOS or Windows - it simply asks them to allow 3rd party stores and sideloading of applications outside their store. Doesn’t say that anyone should be able do it, doesn’t set the terms, doesn’t say it should be free.
So they adapt their policies throughout the process to make sure they are modern?
You’re taking a very pessimistic view of this process.
Because just for starters Apple even tried to argue they shouldn’t be subject to the legislation because they didn’t have one store but multiple stores. Same with iMessage and whatnot
But it didn’t work, did you expect apple not to claim they were compliant and didn’t need regulation?
You’re taking a very pessimistic view of this process.
No, no, I’m taking a realistic view. I know exactly how and why it works this way and it makes it somehow more democratic and productive while appeasing the lobbying efforts and capabilities of big companies.
It just takes a lot of time, and you’ll remember my post whenever Apple finally decides to announce sideloading.
It isn’t realistic, you’re complaining. You’re giving out that apple will fight their case, in what world would they not? Companies will try to find workarounds to laws and lawmakers will try to close loopholes. Is their lobbying influence? Absolutely. But it’s hasn’t stopped the creation of the legislation.
Apple side loading will be proof the law is working, that is the intention of the law to facilitate side loading. If they find a way to make it difficult there are avenues that can be taken from anti competition cases to changing the law.
I honestly cannot see what you’re giving out about. Do you want laws passed in a day with no oversight?
You’re giving out that apple will fight their case, in what world would they not?
No, I’m giving out they’ll bypass the intent of the law while complaining. Or at least they’ll bypass your interpretation of the law because in mine it doesn’t say anything about against restricting it, about having a vetting process or requiring payments.
So? Companies can and have removed features like that at the behest of some dickwad in power. Don’t take anything for granted. We need to heavily regulate them. Or hell take games. Capcom is currently adding DRM to 12+year old games. Garbage like that should be forbidden by law instead of relying on shitstorms to get companies to comply.
Most Android components can technically be FOSS, but the it’s monolythic nature makes it very hard to get from those FOSS benefits. Best example is TV using Android, phone using Android, but cannot change the interface without hacking half-baked thing like custom ROM.
True. I have a Samsung, which does do some shitty ass things like remove the option to turn off data access to apps, but even they allow “sideloading” (I don’t even like that term – it’s just installing software in the normal way to me)
Google does indeed use Google Play Services to gate-keep the Ecosystem while keeping Android technically FOSS. Still better than Apple in this case, but hey… would you rather be hanged or beheaded?
No but many of them. Play Services gets more and more functions that used to be part of the Android operating system. Some very basic functionalities are assisted GPS or Push notifications.
Despite not being forced by governments, no android phone uses a shitty proprietary charger port, nor have they ever. And last night I discovered side loading is possible on my fucking google TV device. Again, no laws require this, it’s just called not being a fucking prick.
Not always. Consumers given choice they should go for the product that is best. That way companies have to make the best product. That’s competition working.
Like when ps3 offered free online but xbox didn’t. That killed the xbox market as everyone could choose a similar product that was cheaper.
Or when apple forced everyone to use their products people went to the Samsung because you could do what you want. That killed apple.
Or when some companies offered subscription model like Microsoft Office, everyone went to alternatives and that killed Microsoft Office.
Honestly I blame people. We had all the information and just laughed in the face of reason. We are choosing to spend more for a shittier product.
I finally made the plunge to Linux desktop for all work in 2016 and have not looked back (and occasional windows VM, extremely rare now.) Even Arch is now perfectly fine as a workstation which surprised me. Recommend EndeavourOS to streamline the install process but it’s Arch underneath.
I’ve been running Linux since I could afford a 386 in '94. (and learned years later a 386SX would have run it as well) Every time I need to work on Windows for an employer the 1st thing I do is find who can help mne fix windows when I break it. (I seem to be pretty good at that, although it doesn’t seem to be a huge skill)
I’m a Linux user since '94, the 1st Android phone I got (company phone) was rooted, the 1st one I bough ran Cyanogenmod and I even developed Cyanogenmod for my 2nd tablet. (1st was crap) yep, free software user. (and kind of developer)
From Apple’s perspective it’s not shitty, it’s part of their brand. Apple products are all about stupid proofing. Its hard to fuck it up, its hard to download a malicious app or virus. Preventing side loading protects people who don’t know what side loading is. Believe it or not that’s the majority of users. Side loading wont effect profits but thats because the large majority of their customer base will never use it. Those of us who want it are a vocal minority trying to screw up their entire business strategy, so of course they won’t give it to us unless they are forced to do so.
Maybe it will help you be less pissy about something you cant change. Accept the fact that Apple will never change due to this fundamental business strategy and move on to a company that doesnt rely on babying their mindless customers. Or I dunno, fuck it, keep pissing in the wind and crying about smelling bad.
Yo you and everyone else replying to me need to slow down and read carefully. I’m telling you you cant change it SO GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE. Holy fuck, the shit I said above is not a compliment to apple. If you don’t get that then you are Apple’s target audience cause goddamn ya fuckin need stupid proofing.
Where do we draw the line between a functioning computer and chromebook? an IoT device? Stupid-proofing should not come at the cost of basic functionality.
Preventing side loading protects people who don’t know what side loading is.
No, it does not. Users attempting to sideload an app would obviously be warned, not to mention various other methods of malware scanning / sandboxing which can alleviate that non-existant issue.
Those of us who want it are a vocal minority trying to screw up their entire business strategy.
Creating Fisher Price computers is not a valid business strategy, and serves as a detriment for all users regardless of proficency. User freedom is beneficial for absolutely everyone.
Any women who (who we’re already assuning I’m interested in enough to take on a date) won’t go on a date with me because of my phone’s OS are dodged bullets imo.
Users attempting to sideload an app would obviously be warned, not to mention various other methods of malware scanning / sandboxing which can alleviate that non-existant issue.
Hope the sandboxing is really strong.
Vulnerable people can be walked through malware installations over the phone, or via guided workflow.
Also, naughty nations/employers can pre-load spyware onto devices they require people to use.
Definitely excited to see what the best use cases are but will await headlines this year about misuse.
It absolutely is a valid business strategy, Apple has been winning with this strategy for like 15-20 years now. Their shit IS Fisher Price computers and Fisher Price phones and ALWAYS HAS BEEN. Most people are fucking dumb and it is designed specifically for them. So for the love of god go buy something else. Please. I’m begging you and everyone else who thinks they are smart - STOP BUYING APPLE STUFF! Like holy shit do something inconvenient for once
I honestly don’t get why people use apple. People have explained it to me and I think I just don’t get the reasoning.
People would tell me on the age of illegally downloaded or someone legally bought mp3s apple was better because you can’t play your mp3s you have to buy them again off apple. Or that apple is better because you can’t use something and instead have to use apples device which isn’t as good and more expensive but it’s white! Like I can’t get a fucking white one.
People would tell me on the age of illegally downloaded or someone legally bought mp3s apple was better because you can’t play your mp3s you have to buy them again off apple
Idk why people told you that but it’s never been true. iPods didn’t give a shit where the mp3 came from, only that it was loaded via iTunes.
i have used an iphone once in my life when i was a kid, and my only memory of it is thinking something was broken because i couldn’t open the filesystem on my PC
I am an Apple user and in the end I’m more comfortable with them having access to my data than google… but man, they don’t even bother to pretend it’s a pro-consumer issue thing anymore.
Been noticing that a lot lately, corporate weasel language is dying as these companies grow more and more emboldened.
Both Google and Apple sell your data to the same companies. It’s kinda the point of them having ‘an ecosystem’ (monopolized ofc).
All “privacy” efforts they made with their OSs were exclusively so third party apps can collect less data from you and have to buy data from Google/Apple.
The op I replied to? Apples quarterly revenue statements? Their terms you agree to? Explicit ‘Apple privacy policy’ on the subject?
Both Apple and Google restrict third party app privacy not for your protection/increased privacy but to monopolize data collection. Eg Facebook vs Meta was a few years ago a fairly public fight.
But on both OSs you don’t really have the option to restrict data collection from their services (on some Androids you can’t even disable Google services, much less uninstall them). And Google also pays several billions per quarter to Apple to be the default search data collection engine.
It is true tho that companies differ a lot so the data collection is different too (the biggest difference is that Apple doesn’t have that much need for user data since it isn’t really in personalized ad business).
You are delusional. It’s wild that you’re using sources like Apple’s privacy policy as a source when it directly contradicts what you’re claiming.
The authoritative sources that you listed explicitly state:
Apple only delivers ads in 3 places (App Store, Apple News, Stocks). Contrast this with Google, which delivers ads on virtually every app on every screen you interact with if you’ve got an Android phone.
Apple doesn’t share any personal data with third parties for advertising. They also don’t “sell” your data at all. They also don’t buy (or receive) any personal data from third parties to use for marketing. Again, contrast that with Google, whose entire business model is doing each of those things as invasively as possible.
I’m not claiming that Apple is “moral” or “ethical” or anything like that. But Apple’s profits are driven by them selling hardware, which means that if I’m someone who wants to buy hardware, their interests are at least somewhat aligned with mine. On the other hand, Google’s profits are driven by selling ads that are based on the most emotionally charged personal information they can gather. Any service they provide you is just bait for you to chew on so they can build the inventory they sell to advertisers.
Sorry, but you really need to lay of the crack my friend.
I am gonna guess they have their own ad setup. So they collect the data, setup profiles and whatnot. Then an advertiser can come and pay to use their system for targeted ads. Now does that count as “selling your data”? Not technically I guess. Google does exactly the same thing tho, right? I fail to see how they differ in any way. I suppose you can HOPE that apple cares about its reputation enough to handle your data carefully, but that is about it. Hopes and prayers.
I’m getting real tired of corpo doublespeak. It’s everywhere right now and I feel like people are finally getting wise to it. I don’t want to hear whatever made up by committee garbage you came up with. Give us an answer.
It’s pretty funny considering their main arguments have never mentioned the financial impact and always leaned on SeCuRitY, or some dumb shit the fanboys will regurgitate.
Like, Apple you lying little slut — we know you cuck for coins in everything you do.
Anything Google is optional on Android, especially since the EU’s DMA which now mandates the service accounts to be decoupled (or to make coupling optional, to be more precise).
It’s incredible how that decision fucked the country for decades. One of the best examples why “direct democracy” does not guarantee good decisions just because it was the people’s choice.
Ah, okay, so the referendum was just more like a consultation whether brexit should happen, but the badly done legislation came afterwards (which people probably wouldn’t have voted for)?
People were simultaneously told different things by different people on what would happen of the country voted leave. A lot of it obviously false even at the time.
People might have known what they were voting for. But what they were voting for had no basis on what the government would actually do.
Then we had the prime minister who held the referendum resign.
A new prime minister is chosen in a private election amongst members of the conservative party (about 100,000 votes will do it normally but no one actually runs against them). This becomes a theme.
There is legislation passed which essentially puts a clock on the process. If nothing passes we’d just revoke laws and break treaties.
This was meant to scare the EU into giving us what we wanted. The EU was not overly concerned.
The government put some very shoddy legislation together. We got a pretty poor deal from the EU, well we were pretty desperate.
The government couldn’t pass that legislation
We had an election for a new government
The government lost seats and lost their majority
The government then joined with a religious extremist party in Northern Ireland to give them a majority.
The shoddy legislation becomes not only shoddy but also more extreme, It still can’t pass.
The prime minister is ousted by their own party.
We get a new prime minister.
They still haven’t decided on the legislation but they tell everyone what they want to hear.
We have an election
The government gets a big working majority
The shoddy extreme legislation, which we now know from first hand accounts the prime minister didn’t understand, still can’t pass.
The government literally breaks the law and closes parliament illegally to try and run the clock closer to the point where we take a bonfire to massive ammous of legislation.
The government are then forced back into the house by the courts
Eventually at the last moment a deal is passed. It’s really bad for the UK economy, and the UK in general.
The UK leaves the EU. Northern Ireland doesn’t. Well it sort of does.
COVID and Another 2 prime ministers later and Brexit deals are still being negotiated.
Essentially he EU has everything it needs. It’s protected the interests of bordering nations like the Republic of Ireland and France. The UK has increased friction on trade, labour issues.
The current big issue is that France no longer helps us stop people crossing the channel. That was an EU agreement. So our government, now spends it’s time and energy trying to deport people to Rwanda, breaking the entirely separate European Convention on Human Rights Churchill’s government basically wrote and passed after the second world war.
It’s worth noting that this government has had a vote share of 36.1% pre referendum in 2015 36.9% post referendum in 2017 42.4% post deadlock in 2019 (with the opposition getting 40%)
The conservative party got that lock in 2019 on 55% of the seats with 42.4% of the vote
Since then they’ve rotated people in and out of government to essentially do the bidding of the one who pays the most into their individual campaign funds against each other.
The government refuse to allow an election even while they’re essentially changing constantly.
We haven’t really got democracy in this country. We disenfranchise a lot of people through our electoral system by design. We concentrate power to a minority.
However what went missing after Brexit was the Dublin convention where migrants could be turned back to the first EU country they entered, in this case France.
I think the government tried to negotiate a returns agreement with the french who basically just said “Non!” and that was it. There is a deal where the UK pays France to patrol their coastline and stop migrants however. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong about this last part.
He’s not talking in good faith. I’m married to a first-gen immigrant from Mexico. I can tell you how “they” move. Unless they’re rich out the gate, in which case there’s a completely different process, they save up money for years, ask for money from relatives, live in extreme discomfort, and then eventually are able to move.
Once established, it’s not like “they” can pick up at any time and relocate. Now they’re trapped in three or four jobs working the entire day, with still barely enough money for rent and food.
Eventually, some of “them” might be fortunate enough to be able to afford the massive investment of time and money for residency and maybe even citizenship.
Maybe even some of “them” will fall in love and get married and start a beautiful life together.
But maybe “they” and even their spouse have misfortune. Healthcare can totally collapse you. Maybe “they” and their spouse save up money for years, but it’s never enough. “They” have got PTSD from their prior life experiences, and their spouse develops health problems. Neither of them want these things to happen, but one ends up in and out of psych wards and psychiatrists’ offices, and the other ends up shitting himself for more than five years, finally after thousands and thousands of dollars discovers he has celiac, but has also fucked other things up in the meantime by developing addiction to alcohol and opiods, which are so easy to become addicted to in this society. So their big plans to move to the big city keep falling through. “They” might lie awake at night feeling tremendous guilt about this, on top of everything else, even though it’s not “their” fault.
That’s how “they” move, and that’s how many of “them” might not be able to just fucking relocate like some privileged neckbeard from lemmy.world suggests.
I know many other immigrants and refugees. I know many similar cases.
What did I say for you to badmouth me here, exactly? And why do you keep putting “they” in quotes? I can tell you’re waiting for some big gotcha moment. What is it?
“We should just build a wall around your state and force it to secede. All the LGBT+ and POC should relocate immediately because it’s not safe to live there.”
“What about all the people who can’t afford to move? What about all the people living on tribal land?”
“Oh, them? Hmmm. They should move, too. Again.”
The fact is, right-wing extremism shouldn’t be tolerated anywhere. Putting all the fascists “on an island” doesn’t fix anything because there will always be children and other people who never asked to be there, yet have to suffer.
Diffuse sanctions, with exile being used in extreme cases
But remember that hierarchical systems and states will always devolve into fascism given time, and the number of people calling for fascism would greatly decrease, given a different system
Yes but look at the alternative: a country united under far right rule. We suffered for 4 years of that and are looking at another 4 years of it if the dumbass anti-Biden memes are taken seriously by enough sheeple.
To make it abundantly clear, for most people on earth, and for most of human history, being poor was and is not a blocker to moving. In fact it’s a great enabler. Comfortable middle income people don’t move.
Imagine buying a piece of hardware knowing full well that doesn’t work the way you want it to and then bitching that it doesn’t work the way you want it to
If you can’t find an OS that works for you between android, iOS, the multitude of custom android roms, symbian, and Manjaro on the pinephone, then I suggest you either stop being so picky or make your own.
The true Linux alternatives for phone are not usable like android and iOS are. Android and iOS are still garbage. I am unable to make my own. However I am also able to see obvious faults. Luckily on computers we have Linux, but we really don’t have options like that on phones. The best we have is custom Roms but it’s not the same as having a bunch of really good options.
Imagine devices you can actually repair yourself. I looked into switching the battery on my phone the other day and in the process it seems I could very easily break my display if I am not SUPER careful. It’s literally easier to swap the display than the battery.
I recently installed GrapheneOS on a pixel 7 pro. Waaaay easier than lineageOS. As long as you have the drivers installed on your pc and opposable thumbs, it’s a breeze.
Problem is that I bought a 5a and had the screen die just out of the extended warranty and they wouldn’t help me out. Giving money to Google is always a mistake, never again.
Not saying people should buy Google phones, but I did replace my 5a’s screen with iFixit’s guide. Took one evening with no prior phone repair expertise.
That’s really nice to hear, lineage on a tablet a while back took quite a bit of work to get installed. Nevermind then having to get it able to load apps that needed Google.
Still a bit salty they gave almost no warning before retiring that image though, one month notice that they were getting rid of it was dissapointing to say the least
Before it was edified, there even used to be a part of the model response
I have expanded the article to over 4500 words, maintaining the same style, tone, and formatting per your request. Please let me know if you need any additional changes or have feedback…
Yeah, no kidding. You don’t get to act like a red hatter, acting like your decisions about what constitutes “freedom” disqualifies all others, without being called out for it.
I’m getting so sick of Lemmy… It’s just like the worst parts of Reddit now. No opinion, other than the hive mind. No discussion, besides name-calling and finger pointing, and yeah, they did it first. This place is for children.
Well, it’s just capitalism, ain’t it. The goal of the company is to generate as much revenue as possible. That is why we need to regulate the market and everyone who says else is probably a rich asshole who does not care about others.
Je parles en français la plupart du temps, cependant sur Lemmy c’est rarement en français.
Il va simplement falloir attendre que les lois du Canada ainsi que ceux du Québec rattrapent/suivent ceux de l’Union Européenne en ce qui concerne le «Side-loading» dans l’écosystème Apple.
C’est lent, mais ça arrivera ici éventuellement 😆.
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