I fucking hate, and from the bottom of my heart, how Biden is funding the genocide in Palestine, but I’m still going to vote for him this time, because we just can’t have a person like Trump in the white house, period. I still can’t figure out how he got in the first time. I’d never let my 10 year old lead a country, yet we let Trump do it for four fucking years. I, too, am sick of this “the lesser of two evils” bullshit, but this time I’m giving it a pass because of Trump. We already have a crumbling country and can’t afford another four years of this dude.
Ten year old?! Thats a high bar for most republicans these days. They want knee jerk and whining. Thats something most 10 year olds are already figuring out doesnt get them what they want.
I think Joe Biden is maybe the best president of my lifetime, and I’m going to vote for him with my head held high even though I live in a red state where it doesn’t matter at all. I wish things were simpler in the Levant, but I appreciate that Joe Biden is between a rock and a hard place with Israel. It’s not like he can just take Bibi out. He’s not Boeing. That said, even if I laid the entire genocide at Biden’s feet (which, while he’s not blameless, is absolutely not appropriate), he would still be head and shoulders an improvement over Donald Trump.
For that matter, I’d absolutely let my 12 year old run this country before I’d let Trump have a second term. My kid is brilliant, and more importantly, unlike Trump he listens to advice, can take no for an answer, and gives a shit about having a functional democracy four years from now.
A second Trump term is an existential threat to the nation. Hold your nose, hold your neighbor’s nose if you have to, but every able-bodied patriot owes it to their descendants and their patriotic ancestors to prevent a second Trump term.
I don’t understand why people point out that Biden is “funding the genocide in Palestine” and completely ignore and fail to mention that trump would do the exact same thing.
He has all but said he would cut Israel loose to do whatever they needed to finish the job.
The use of Israeli aggression is not a point of comparison when viewing the differences between trump and Biden.
Edit: and I apologize for the late edit - FWIW Biden has become critical of Israeli actions and offered some aid to Palestinians (Yeah, I absolutely agree it isn’t enough) while trump would prefer to wash his hands of the whole Palestine thing. That is a notable difference.
It isn’t the potential for denial that initiated my reply, it’s the fact that people declare US support of Israel is a strike against Biden when comparing Biden to trump as a reason to consider not voting for Biden. This is a false comparison and it is the point I am making.
I don’t understand why people point out that Biden is “funding the genocide in Palestine” and completely ignore and fail to mention that trump would do the exact same thing.
Because Democrats are suppose to be better than that. But, apparently, they actually aren’t.
This is about the Democratic party. This whole “vote for the least fascist candidate” has reached a breaking point. It’stotally beyond the pale and isn’t just about whats best for the next election cycle. People simply cannot actively support a genocidal party because it runs fundementally against their core values.
We’re not talking about compromising on tax policy or economics here. We’re talking about fully mask off genocide support. It’s deeply unconscionable to anyone who has a moral compass.
No, you’re not listening. Stop fear-babbling about fucking Trump for one fucking second and consider that voting for Biden is voting for genocide. It’s putting your own name to it.
While that clearly means nothing to you and you’rejust fixated on your own self-interest, consider how non-sociopaths might view this choice.
Ok. GFY for making the “if you vote for Biden you vote for genocide” argument while completely ignoring trump would do the same. You’re just a damn shill for the right wing. Useless MF.
I would honestly get yourself checked out by a psychologist. Normal people are not this incapable of understanding why someone might have trouble voting for a genocidal fascist.
Like, yes, you disagree, but I’m talking about how easily you’re able to support genocide without blinking an eye and then getting angry at other people who won’t actively support genocide.
The level of selfish disregard for even attempting to understand is really disturbing. Like, you understand that there are people right now that have relatives in Gaza being killed with the bombs that Biden gave Israel, right? You understand that Biden spit in those people’s faces when they asked him to not support genocide? Intellectually you can at least wrap your head around that, right?
lol, keep making stuff up about me, tankie. Keep throwing innuendos at me couched as reason so everyone can read your anti-Biden propaganda instead of what’s actually being discussed. Repeat it every single reply like a good little fascist.
E: quick trip through your post history says this is all you do, trash talk democrats and Biden, repeat genocide over and over while never a single mention of trump policy. Well, a quick stop in a porn community to jerk off for a break, right? How’s the propaganda job pay? Any good? Or do you just do it voluntarily out of pure hatred?
If voting for Biden is voting for genocide, then not voting or voting third party is voting for Trump, genocide and the destruction of democracy in the US.
The destruction of democracy in the United States has much deeper roots, and has been in-process for a long time. How long the effects have been visible is arguable, and the manifestation unpredictable, but fundamentally, a voting system which doesn’t allow people to express their actual preferences, well, isn’t representative of people’s actual preferences.
I can’t think of any more-profound way to state that truth at this early hour. A “democracy” which doesn’t reflect the will of the people is a democracy in name only, and we can only keep the “lesser-evil” streak going for so long before we’re so far into evil that we “have to” vote for a candidate materially supporting genocide so we don’t get the candidate who supports genocide without having non-actionable “concerns” about it.
I don’t understand why people point out that Biden is “funding the genocide in Palestine” and completely ignore and fail to mention that trump would do the exact same thing.
And hence why I won’t vote for Trump either. It’s not that hard to understand.
“I still can’t figure out how he got in the first time”
Easy. He was propped up by democrats, namely Hillary Clinton.
If we reach a point 40 years from now when your choice is between a dem supporting 5 genocides and a republican supporting 10 genocides, are you still going to be militantly democrat and lash out at leftists who are sick of the whole thing?
In this hypothetical we wouldn’t have the option to vote 40 years from now because dim bulbs allowed an insurrectionist to be elected. Donald will also accelerate climate fuckery so anyway we’ll be too busy squabbling over what meager food comes out of the remaining arable regions.
By not answering the question and participating in the process of this hypothetical choice the outcome is Israel is supported and Joe Biden loses the 2024 election.
Nope. I’ve stated this in multiple posts on other platforms, this is my last time going with this “lesser of two evils” bullshit. Because at some point, we HAVE to believe that it is intentional. I mean, what happened to “fool me once…”?
So if a Trump presidency means the end of democracy in America, why hasn’t Trump been outlawed?
Why is Biden focusing on banning TikTok instead of truth social? Why weren’t the courts getting stacked 2 years ago? Why are the democrats’ obsession with “precedent” and “civility” taking more primacy than outlawing a candidate who, by their own admission, would mean the end of democracy?
By propping up Trump, the democrats have effortlessly oriented you such that you now give blind support to a genocidal regime. You’ve given the democrats a blank check. The democrats would rather lose to Trump and usher in fascism than shift left in the slightest way (halting genocide).
Also, epic reddit catchphrase my good sir. I tip my hat you, for you are a gentleman and a scholar.
Biden is not funding Israel. The United States government is. Even if he wanted to stop the aid (he doesn’t), he doesn’t have the power to just ignore laws passed by Congress. Trump did that with Ukraine and got impeached for it.
I mean, he fundamentally does have the power to veto laws. There are potentially negative political consequences in doing so, but he certainly has that power.
Certain important people need to keep selling spyware, drugs, guns and war to keep themselves and their associates employed. As for whether the funds or the actual work (conflict) available is sustainable is for everyone including the accountants to consider.
The other problem is that war doesn’t really die, we just displace where we choose to fight, and how, if we imagine physical and cyber world peace for a moment, for the USA or China to reduce its military capacity by one third, or one tenth, we would see absolute chaos, thousands unemployed, the losses in maintenance and equipment, military supplies, medical, etc, nobody would win.
Any complex society where financial and other systems operate needs a minimum degree of social enforcement to maintain. Whether that can change like a function or is something that depends on a country’s GDP is another issue.
Just consider that humanity would either need lots of free time, energy and money or it would literally need to feel incredibly threatened by something on earth, which we all could not fight to control in order to actually fund going to space or even the moon, and I doubt a triple whammy of pandemic, food shortage or severe draught and floods could do it, it happened in the Bible and people literally just found more dumb reasons to do more dumb things, and no lowering mens testosterone or telling guys to shave more often wouldn’t do shit either. If people don’t find reasons to explore or learn, they find reasons to fight/play fight, it’s pretty normal, and if anyone remembers their childhood, usually it’s pretty much the same across generations.
Is it fair to say that the overton window is only moving right when we are still making progress moving it left?
The overton window isn’t a zero-sum measure. It can expand simultaneously in both directions. Given that we have nazis in the street now, I’d say it’s not correct to say that it’s moving only left either.
That has little to do with whatever political machinations are occurring and more to do with housing and necessities inflation driving labor pressure as a lagging inflation indicator.
Think of it as a tectonic/landscape thing rather than the stupid games people happen to be playing on the landscape.
Of course if any of them had their heads out of their own asses, or the asses of their owners, they might recognize this and start adapting…
I could sus it like you think Biden moved it right (lol), but that requires you ignore Trump would have actually moved it rght, which is exactly the Overton window is moving it as left as you can every step, but why the fuck am I bothering even with this you’ll just say but but but but but but Biden bad! I’m out.
Self-righteous bullshit. I want to solve problems someday and that’s precisely why I vote for Democrats. Letting Trumpists take over now will make any progress vastly harder for the foreseeable future.
Ah, so since one of your two options doesn’t give you everything you want, you’ve decided that you’re okay with the one that wants to take away everything you have. Cool story, good luck with that.
It has to be supporting policies that reduce the disparity in wealth, not exacerbate it.
Looking at how many people actually vote for 3rd parties puts into perspective how many people actually want to solve this issue.
Also, try letting people use their own words. You were wrong about your assumptions and hyperbole, but i think instead of admitting you’re wrong you’re just going to assume more.
Looking at how many people actually vote for 3rd parties puts into perspective how many people actually want to solve this issue.
…effectively no-one, as far as country-wide population statistics are concerned? What percentage of the vote went third-party in the last three elections? Gary Johnson (8 years ago) got a whole 3%, and that was massive compared to anyone in the past 30 years… basically unprecedented. Those numbers barely broke 1% last time.
I’m sorry, but no, it doesn’t. Most people are just living in a reality where voting third-party gets the worst option elected, because that’s historically its only effect.
Look, I’m not gonna fight you, it’s clear that your mind is made up. Just think about the probability of your choices, and think about how much you appreciate the ability to even vote… because that’s the actual argument, here. Trump has laid out his plans, and you’re welcome to ignore them, but most people don’t have that luxury, they need to vote in ways that don’t have a chance to lead to their culling.
You’re making false assumptions about what people’s voting habits say about what they want, drawing absurd conclusions as a result, and then doubling down on your false assumptions even when real people tell you what they want why they vote the way they do. Here’s a clue for you: other people know their own beliefs and motivations a hell of a lot better than you do. It’s supremely arrogant for you to think otherwise.
Literally yes, in the voting system that the US has. This isn’t some ideological hill I’m dying on, this is basic statistics and understanding of elections.
How do you get that? By moving the Overton window. And how do you get that? By VOTING. But it seems you want to yell at a cloud instead. Something tells me you’ll just keep at this ‘whoo is me’, so I’m out.
Wrong. The party that can “move left” went to court to assert their right to do what they want regardless of voters, and have an equal hand in moving the goalposts anytime a third party comes close to the requirements for inclusion. Hell, just look at their messaging - they don’t even talk about Republicans or their policies, they just namedrop trump then blame leftists for all their woes.
“MoVe ThE oVeRtOn WiNdOw (even though they openly and pointedly snipped completely off anything left of mid right genocide Joe)”
The answer is guillotines and anyone who says otherwise are well off liberals who would rather have Trump than redistribute wealth and resources.
The Overton window is not something that can be changed electorally. Candidates can only get on the ballot in the first place if they’re within the Overton window, as anybody outside the window is “radical” or “extreme”, and the existing political powers forbid their candidacy. The electoral window is moved outside the electoral process, and only then can the electoral system permit new candidates with new ideas.
Lol yes it can. Why are we having idiotic discussion to disband the EPA? Because Trump won an election. That moved the Overton window, drastically at that. Why can’t Biden do ______? Because the Republicans still have a very real chance of winning. When the GOP has no chance of winning, then the Overton window can move more.
Meanwhile, the Overton window has been shifting right radically. Seems like this lesser of two evils nonsense is actually doing the opposite of what you claim.
Moved because Trump won an election. But you want to suggest that’s just random? C’mon.
*Btw it’s moving the Overton window, not lesser of two evils as you want to put it. You want policy number 426? You have to vote for policy 1 first. You have to walk before you can run.
What are you talking about? We have been moving rightward ever since the Clinton administration, baring a handful of social issues. Are you genuinely telling me that we are more left leaning now than we were under the new deal politics before Reagan?
All we’ve progressed in is gay and civil rights, which is good. Economically and by most other metrics, we’ve slid Faaaaar to the right.
It’s not a good look for your position on slow incremental change that the entire apparatus can collapse in one election.
You said radical, that was Trump. You think Clinton change was radical? No that was Trump. Can’t forget Bush either! You know the one that lied his way into war. But you want to suggest everything was all Clintons fault or something? C’mon be better than this weird game you’re playing. Like really, do you think it would be more right or more left without Bush and Trump? That’s the Overton window.
BTW Clinton had to be moderate because he was going against an incumbent.
Yeah I could go over different issues, but you’re already trying to poopoo them away. So I’ll broadly address economics with we have regulated capitalism. One party wants to remove regulation (Gop because I think you’re trying to be obtuse) and be entirely free for all, no EPA or anything. And one wants proper regulation (again, Dems because think you’re trying to be obtuse).
My issue is that while we squabble over social issues, the ruling class fucks us with fiscal ones.
Greed and the growing disparity in wealth is the worst issue we face as a species.
If Biden wins we lose. If Trump wins we lose harder. Each option results in a loss because we don’t want actually want to address the disparity in wealth.
If Biden wins we lose. If Trump wins we lose harder.
…and you think we need to lose harder?
Or do you actually believe that the system that has had the same outcome literally every single election has a chance to produce a different result? How many third-party candidates have received more than 1.5% of the vote? I’ll help: exactly FOUR in the past HUNDRED YEARS.
Or do you actually just want Trump to win and are using your enlightened centrist persona to disguise that fact?
I think a slow loss is still a loss and we shouldn’t cheer when people like Biden get elected over people like Bernie.
If you notice, the disparity in wealth is still growing at an increasing-rate. That’s why “the economy is doing good.” Not for me or you. But for the rich people who control who we can vote for.
The minuscule amount of support for third parties exemplifies the number of people who actually want to reduce the disparity in wealth.
It really puts into perspective who is a useful idiot, and who is not.
Because a First-Past-The-Post voting system doesn’t care about your ideals. Until we have a different system, literally your only hope of effecting change is to vote for one of the two partied candidates and work locally to influence your party from the bottom-up.
Voting third party doesn’t send a message you want it to send. It doesn’t send any message at all except “I approve of whatever you choose for me.”
Because capitalism profits from genocide. The question then is, are you ok with diet Palestinian genocide or would you prefer the supersized Palestinian genocide combo with a side of homegrown genocide?
You misspelled Netanyahu. Also you will have egg on your face from head to toe when you find out what Biden is really doing to stop the killing in the Mideast.
I just want one of the “You can’t vote for Biden!” people to outline what I should do instead. What’s the play here? Dismantle the government? Sure, outline your plan and let’s see if it has any merit. Protest? Great, tell me when and where but it doesn’t preclude the need to vote.
They talk big, but if their entire plan begins with “don’t vote” and ends with “bitch about it online” then it’s not a great plan.
The state of Israel is currently genociding Palestinians. You can’t support the state of Israel and support the Palestinian people at the same time. Full stop.
I mostly agree in fact, however in definition it isn’t true. Israel is a nation that could exist in many other forms. It doesn’t have to do what it’s doing. It’s not the same as “pro-Nazi” because Nazism is an ideology, not a nation. A nation doesn’t have any set ideals, only a set of people and borders it represents.
You can be anti-Nazi and pro-Germany because Nazis didn’t define Germany. They were Nazis at one point in time but are now represented by totally different ideals.
Russia isn’t in military allience with Iran. Both Russia and Iran are neighbors sanctioned by the US, forcing them into a business partnership by exclusion.
And Iran isn’t allied with Gaza Palestinians. You’re confusing them with the Yemeni Houthis and West Bank Hezbollah. What you have is Israelis engaging in terrorist acts against both states, then conflating retaliation with cooperation.
An early example of Israeli state-sponsored was the 1954 Lavon Affair, a botched bomb plot in Egypt that led to the resignation of the Israeli defense minister at the time. In the 1970s and 1980s, Israel was also a major supplier of arms to dictatorial regimes in South America, Sub-Saharan Africa, and Asia. In the 21st-century, it has been accused of sponsoring and supporting several terrorist groups as part of its proxy conflict with Iran.
You’re right that a state can commit terrorism just like a group can, but the key issue here is whether the state works towards being held accountable and towards achieving a long term benefit for all its benefactors, investors, assets and the society it’s providing for
I was saying a state can’t commit terrorism by virtue of being a state they are war crimes
The difference is that random Israeli isn’t held accountable for war crimes committed by the regime but random Kurd/ISIS member/Proud Boys member can be held accountable for terrorist activities even if they aren’t involved
The recent case of Samer Arbeed highlighted once again the systematic use of torture against Palestinian detainees in Israeli prisons. Israeli soldiers arrested Arbeed at his home in Ramallah on September 25, 2019. They beat him severely before taking him to Al Moscobiyye detention center in Jerusalem for interrogation. Two days later, according to his lawyer, he was hospitalized as a result of severe torture, and lay in critical condition for several weeks. A judicial body had authorized the Israeli Secret Service, the Shin Bet, to use “exceptional methods” to extract information in this case without going through the courts. This led Amnesty International to condemn what happened to Arbeed as “legally-sanctioned torture.“
Just as I have to watch half the electorate embrace the most asinine BS possible to justify selfishness and hate… it’s not that far out to see people screaming “genocide joe!” at everyone they see, as they turn off everyone and defeat themselves at every chance.
The cool part is focusing all your effort into a camp-out such that your main message is synonymous with homelessness and you self defeat your own goals… all while you call the liberal element genocidal and basically show the world your biggest effort is to sit still while cutting off the liberal nose to spite your face.
Because of FPTP and the Winner Take All Electoral College, there is a lot of political pressure to only have 2 parties. In a better system (proportional, ranked choice, etc) it wouldn’t break with more than two parties. In fact just reforming the electoral college to be proportional would likely allow 3 parties to exist.
If you look at history the last time there was a viable 3rd party it possibly initiated the civil war by allowing an anti slavery viewpoint to exist (which is good, but if we’d had a better voting system it would have happened earlier and reduced a lot of suffering)
He absolutely is more so. Also, young people have more power to influence Biden because they are part of his coalition. Of course, using this power is tricky because you need to pressure and criticize Biden without actually making him lose. So far I support the pressure campaign but I hope as the election gets closer people will start to realize what an epic disaster Trump term two would be.
“because you need to pressure and criticize Biden without actually making him lose”
“We need to be toothless about our criticism of Biden” FTFY
The threat of making your candidate lose is the only power you have to shift them.
Next time you’re negotiating for a car, see how much the seller budges after you preceed negotiations with “Now, I am fully committed and happy paying sticker price, but how much can you lower the price?”
Edit: at least have the intellectual honesty to say out loud that Biden could do anything, and you’d still vote for him
I’m fully committed to lesser evil voting since it’s the only viable electoral strategy. So as long as Biden is better than Trump I would vote for him. I have a hard time understanding why people don’t see that this is the most rational way to vote. If you don’t like it, and I don’t either, then you need to pursue strategies to change it, particularly outside the electoral system. Since these strategies do not conflict with voting I think it’s rational to pursue both actions.
And no I don’t think we need to be toothless. But a lot of people don’t seem to be smart enough to walk the line of threatening to withhold support without actually doing so. I’m not going to go right up to Biden and tell him that’s what I’m doing. He doesn’t know what my strategy is, so it can still be effective.
I mean so lesser evil voting is generally a good strategy for damage control, but it’s not necessarily a great strategy in terms of like, blanket things you can just effect to the whole. If you take a voter in a non-swing state, say, california, a state that votes very consistently, them defecting their vote to a third party which represents them more accurately, is going to be of much lesser weight in totality than if someone in a swing state had done so. They are probably much safer in their estimation of walking up towards the line without crossing it. This is probably also true of states who get their votes tallied up later on, and also of states where projections are already in favor of certain candidates, since those projections affect elections.
This also kind of discounts “not voting” as an electoral strategy because that doesn’t send a super clear signal, but it’s probably not the worst thing in the world, since we could kind of file them away under like, either the average non-voter’s position in their state, or just the average non-voter’s position at large, which is probably going to be more radical of an average position than most would think.
But yeah, all of this still tracks with what you’re saying so far. I think the biggest determining factor for me, though, is that electoralism as a strategy at all hinges on the assumption that democrats would rather move left than lose to republicans. And I dunno, that’s kind of a tenuous assumption, and I think is the major disagreement on people who are willing to engage in electoralism vs those who aren’t, is that most people who aren’t, assume that the democrats would rather lose to republicans and ensure a status quo/backslide into fascism rather than move to the left.
The threat of making your candidate lose is the only power you have to shift them.
I mean this is also not really a threat, though. I think realistically biden and trump are both closer to each other than either of them are to this like, eclectic amalgamation of positions that is the “youth vote”. Him not winning isn’t like, still a victory, in that circumstance, but it’s not like, a loss to them in the same way that it would be if they actually had to do all the stuff the “youth vote” wanted. Basically I’m just saying that they, the DNC broadly I suppose, would rather give as little as they absolutely can, while still maintaining a delicate balance of power where they’re the only ones that can maintain the status quo rather than a backslide into total fascism. Going with all the “youth vote” positions, to them, would be as big if not a bigger loss than a slide into total fascism.
Which is to say, I think they’re willing to lose as long as it means they don’t have to really do anything major.
Are young people really a part of Bidens coalition? Bidens policies and rhetoric have consistantly pushed young people away. The ridiculous speech he gave just a few minutes ago maligning student protestors is emblematic of this.
And it seems like young people have got the message. The last poll I saw had 18-24yr olds voting for Trump at +8%
Historically they have been. I think Biden seems out of touch but I’m not sure I agree with this sentiment overall. That poll sounds dubious but I mean coalitions can change certainly. Trump seems even further from the views I see most young people espousing so I’m not sure why they would move to him but maybe it’s protest vote kind of situation.
Young people are part of the coalition but they’ve never proven to be a reliable part. When the 18-25s vote like the older generations then campaigns will start to take their needs more seriously.
It’s a two way street. Young progressives don’t see any reason to vote for Democrats who won’t fight for any of the policies they care about, so they wont defend or fight for those officials.
If i am thirsty and someone is offering me toilet water after they just shit in the toilet, I don’t need to show gratitude to the next person who comes by offering water from their toilet after they pissed in it.
Your analogy is completely absurd though, it’s more like voting for cake and getting bread - and then being so pissed off about the bread that you let bread guy get voted out in favor of toilet guy.
Let me make sure I’ve got that right. In this analogy, a candidate supporting genocide is a perfectly fine option, and people who have a problem with him are comparable to picky eaters?
Irrelevant. Answer the question please: is supporting the genocide of Palestinians comparable to “bread” in this analogy? Do you consider the genocide of Palestinians to be a perfectly acceptable outcome? Do you think people who aren’t satisfied with a candidate who supports genocide are comparable to picky eaters?
I support the phoenix wright roleplay, but I think you’d find more success in just saying something like “this is kind of a glib analogy when the outcome is still genocide, don’t you think?”, or something along those lines, rather than asking like, a series of questions asking whether or not they find genocide to be an acceptable outcome. One of those will come off as bad faith, and put the defendant on the back foot, the other will get them to open up and possibly admit fault, or potentially come off much poorer to a jury, were they still to choose to object.
I mean, a silly game about ridiculous over the top anime court room nonsense, becoming so culturally relevant that its memes become genuinely useful metaphors to shut down annoying, repetitive rhetorical strategies by grifters trying to sidetrack an otherwise serious conversation… that is some next level shit
Who needs Virtual Reality when you can make reality virtually part of your game?
This is what I’ve been saying: Don’t vote and expect cake. Vote and expect bread at best. Lower your expectations and treat it like paying your taxes and you’ll feel better about it.
If they don’t want to condone genocide I suggest they just never vote. And also leave the country. Because this is a country built on genocide, and that will ignore genocide if its in their economic or geopolitical interest.
America sucks. Stop thinking it doesn’t and that you have any control and you’ll be less frustrated.
Young voters delivered GA in 2020, and what did Dems do with that majority?
Biden immediately dropped all pretense of doing immigration reform because an unelected senate parliamentarian said no, offered no meaningful student debt relief, didn’t legalize cannabis, and is drilling for oil at record rates - more so than Trump did. Dems had yet another chance to codify Roe, and blew it. Biden even left in Louis DeJoy as postmaster general. Now he’s mischaracterizing peaceful student protesters as violent radicals, while actual thugs in riot gear and stars of david are free to descend upon them and beat them into submission.
Don’t blame young people for having eyes and ears and paying attention - Biden had his chance, and blew it in favor of his donors’ interests. It’s a tale as old as time, and if you have any interest in actually galvanizing youthful voters, you’ve got to offer something better than the outmoded views of geriatric, genocidin’ Biden.
as somebody with a cumulative $130k in student loan debt, whose loans just went into repayment last year, don’t fucking speak for me on whether i think Biden is trying to do something about it. needless to say i’m following that topic, and i see the efforts Biden/the current admin is making, and i see it repeatedly thwarted by right-wing politicians at fed and state levels.
every time i read a statement like yours, i get the feeling it’s coming from someone who isn’t in repayment yet.
I hear you on student debt forgiveness, Biden has done $144B, which is a little under a tenth of the total. I give that to him as part of the 10% of his campaign promises he has actually delivered on, but it’s not nearly enough. And holy hell did he screw up delivering on that - telling all those borrowers they were getting relief, only to snatch it away from them some months later in a most confusing and disorganized way. Truly inept.
Why not forgive all the student debt? The cost of higher learning in this country is absurd. Especially when you consider that many of these universities are land grant institutions. The commodification of education was a huge mistake (thanks W Bush for eliminating the tuition cap and opening the floodgates). Biden himself authored the legislation which prevents students from declaring bankruptcy when they inevitably get crushed from the massive amount of debt brought on by pursuing degrees. This is how they tag team us, to cement corporate hegemony. Here is a perfect example where Biden has a chance to make things right, but of course he wants nothing of it.
Instead, Biden sends billions overseas to massacre brown children. All the while preventing the UN from doing anything about it to keep civilians safe.
Instead, Biden locks in over half of Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations. Recapturing those alone could have paid for all the student debt. Literally all of it.
So yes, you’re correct that repugnantcons play their part to ensure corporate domination of our lives. But realize the Dems are also fiscal conservatives, and also extremely pro corporate, and they are complicit in this great robbery as well.
yes, even though i didn’t get my $20k forgiveness, i’m sure current admin would be SUPER SUCCESSFUL in pushing through forgiveness of all student loan debt. no pushback from the right at all. /s
yes, even though the right is attempting to dismantle education at all levels, i’m sure the left could absolutely succeed in making quality higher ed free for everyone in a single term, no problem. /s
seriously though, i don’t think it’s worthwhile to pin our hopes on any administration achieving hugely improved outcomes on any complex issue in one or two terms. on a societal level, i think things decay and fall apart more easily than utopia is realized. i’m hoping for slow progress. i’m not holding my breath or shooting myself in the foot voting third party right now and expecting a miracle.
final thought as i write this - has utopia ever been realized on any significant scale? only for some, and only for a time.
Congress passed Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations without too much concern over how we’d pay for it, why does the cost of education need to be held to a different standard?
Can’t argue about the right’s war on education though. With their voter base dwindling and dying off, they’re getting increasingly more desperate to manufacture a voting populace incapable of questioning their failing governance.
Regardless, while I agree it won’t happen overnight, I also think we can achieve this “utopia” far more quickly than you imply. Never before has humanity had the means at its disposal to delegate fulfillment of our basic needs to our tools, but now we can thanks to advanced technology and AI. The challenge is going to be convincing the elites to relinquish their vice grip on society, which is what they exploit to increase their capital hoard and leverage it to keep all of us on the grind, fighting to survive or otherwise fighting pointless culture wars with each other. Part of that equation is of course modern day indentured servitude in the form of student loans.
Challenge yourself! Dare to dream of how we could, instead of why we won’t.
i don’t approve of the tax cuts. look, i’m middle aged and my future doesn’t look good. i’m hoping for… well, a better old age and death than the one that honestly seems likely. i talk to a lot of people without a place to stay, food, safety, or medical care.
my point to you was, i’m not going to not vote for Biden because he didn’t manifest total financial freedom for me in the last four years. i don’t think third party has a chance right now, and i’m terrified for myself, my family, and the people i work with if we get Trump.
i genuinely believe splitting the left will only enable Trump to win, and i’m not convinced there’s any coming back from that. as bad as things are for most of us, i believe it can get a lot worse - and some of the the people i work with tell me what that looks like in places where government isn’t functional at all any more.
i don’t believe there is anyone in any party who is going to eliminate my student loan debt in the next four years. but i am grateful that i paid $0 this month instead of the $800 it would have been.
Downvote me if you want but it’s still a fact that older voters vote more reliably and therefore get better representation. I don’t know that GA was that large of a deviation but even if it was, in general the younger vote still can’t be counted on.
Either way, your comment is case in point (if not also a bit misinformed) - if the youth vote is going to abandon the Dems after one election you can kind of see why they might consider spending more time and money going after a more reliable bloc.
I love your framing here, “youth vote is going to abandon the Dems.” lol!
The youth vote delivered a majority for the Dems, which was squandered yet again, because democrats don’t actually want to lead. Dems clearly are a fundraising organization, not a political organization.
Shouldn’t the DNC have to do something to earn people’s votes? Instead they spit in our faces as they continue to serve the corporate donors.
So fine, let them continue to court boomers. Because that will obviously work forever.
You’re missing their point. Biden didn’t abandon younger voters because he never supported them in the first place. He talked a good game so he had their support which is why he won in 2020. Now that it’s clear they never had his support yes, they will abandon him.
Yeah even to expand on that - they don’t understand that everything they don’t like about Biden, they’ll like about Trump less. I mean I have real serious gripes about Biden but it is insultingly stupid to pretend that Trump would be any kind of a solution to those problems.
It seems that many of them know that Trump is worse, but think that sticking to ideals and voting for a non-viable candidate (or not voting at all) is somehow the best course of action. Republicans count on people like that to win. Fascists don’t give a fuck how they get into power, as long as they do.
They don’t just count on it. They actively invade spaces and spread that idea. I’m almost certain the first people saying that about Biden/Israel were right wing trolls, and people on the left actually took the bait and started spreading it themselves.
I get the sentiment, because I hate our two choices, too, but until first past the post system is changed, the lesser of two evils will always be the most practical choice.
My best guess, if they actually believe there’s a path to a ranked choice system and aren’t just being doomers, is that they think a bloody rebellion will do the trick.
Yeah, there’s a lot of tankies that pretend they are progressives so they don’t get laughed at outright. They’ll take their masks off 10-20 comments down the thread where few people actually see.
I tend to find that the people who believe in participating in the 2 party system also do these same steps. Why would either party do away with FPTP? Neither one has any incentive to do it. At least third parties often have it listed as part of their platform and have incentive to do it because they can’t easily get elected within the current system.
The way it will happen is grassroots local compaigns. Those don’t have as much need for FPTP and are more likely to be politicians who care. Eventually you build up enough to change things locally, then change state laws. That might be enough there, but it can potentially be pushed further and go for a national campaign once you have enough momentum.
It won’t change by the president or congress right off the bat. That’s not how this sort of thing happens. I wish it were. It’d be a lot faster and simpler, but it just won’t work.
What exactly is your plan for changing first past the post?
You could make the case that if the democrats actually supported that, it’s worth holding your nose and voting for them in order to open up other options in the future. But they don’t support it, because they benefit from it. So basically you’re asking the left to keep voting for the democrats unconditionally forever while they don’t address any of our concerns and refuse to make any sort of reforms that might allow us to have a voice in the future. How is that a viable path to accomplishing anything?
The plan is to keep voting in every primary for the most progressive candidates and then voting for the least bad people in elections while pushing for reform. However hard it is to enact change while Democrats are in power, it will be impossible while Republicans are.
I’ll pose the same question to you: how is not voting for the least bad viable candidates, thus guaranteeing the worst candidates get into power, a viable path to accomplishing anything?
It’s just as impossible to enact reform through the Democratic party. Especially when you adopt the approach of “vote blue no matter who.” The Democratic parties interests in terms of voting reform are directly contrary to the interests of voters, and will never allow it happen unless they have no other choice. If they know they can count on your support no matter, then you have forfeited whatever negotiating power you’ve managed to accrue.
To the extent that electoralism is worth engaging with, strategic voting as part of a bloc is the only way to make it worthwhile. The goal should be to build an organization or movement that can say, if you refuse to give into our demands, we will not vote for you and you will lose. In the short term, it might mean losing an election, but if you can demonstrate that power, then in the future you’ll be able to make a credible threat of withholding votes to get what you want, and if they cooperate you won’t have to follow through. If that organization is able to coordinate other actions like strikes, then all the better.
It’s like this: two countries are facing a powerful invader, and the only way to fend them off is through an alliance. But country A says, “I know you need us to survive, so we demand 99% of your territory in exchange for an alliance.” If country B follows the ideology of “lesser evilism,” they’ll agree to that, because 1% is better than 0%. But how did that happen, when country A needs the alliance just as much? Because lesser evilism is stupid and irrational. At some point you have to set a red line and say, this is the absolute minimum that I’ll accept, and I’ll reject anything less even if it means the deal falling through and me facing a worse outcome. And “no genocide” is decidedly inside of that line.
There are a few ways of going about it. One is third parties. If you vote for the Green Party for example, you get voting reform, anti genocide policies and a much better enviromental policy. At the same time Biden is still much better then Trump and being realistic about what you can get should also be part of voting strategy. Also it is incredibly important to say, that citizenship does not end at the ballot box. You got to and can do more to influence politics. So I would probably vote Biden in a swing state and Green Party in an state, which is not a swing state. This matters in two ways. Firstly the more people vote third party, the more likely they can get into some actual power, but also the Democrats see that they can gain potential votes, by improving policies.
Also no lesser evil has to be distinguised from compromise and deals. If you get an actual improvement out of doing something, it can be worth doing even at a price. So if two countries face a powerfull invader, it can be worth making a deal that country A gets 40% of the invaders land and country B also 60%, if country B is already stronger for example. In that case both get something out of it. However without the alliance both would probably fail. In this case the question is, if Biden would actually net improve the US compared to today.
The point of the hypothetical is to demonstrate why the principle of lesser evilism is incorrect. Not every deal has to be exactly equal, the question is what to do when offered a terrible deal when the other party needs you just as much as you need them, and the answer is to bargain even if it means a risk of the deal falling through.
The plan is to keep voting in every primary for the most progressive candidates
But what I’m being told over and over is if Biden cuts off support for Israel he’ll lose the election. Which means moderates and liberals won’t vote for a progressive candidate who makes it through the primaries leading to whatever nutjob is running on the other side.
So our reward for being pragmatic and holding our nose will be the same as voting 3rd party today.
Lemmy is absolutely infested with right wing trolls pretending to be leftists. And the worst part is that .ml protects them because they are completely blinded to this subversion by their pathological instinct to relitigate the cold war.
It’s incredibly obvious to everyone who understands why assuming the moniker of a Haitian slave turned actual freedom fighter is actually incredibly offensive to those dealing with real oppression, both modern and historical.
Everybody who disagrees with you is a right wing troll?
It is pathetic how you are falling into the same line of thinking like the Trumpists. Building the Dems into a cult is not going to solve any of the problems. Threatening their power basis by voting based on principles does. Because then they have to actually listen to their potential voters. The majority of Americans is against continuing to support the Genocide committed by Israel. Biden would gain politically by turning the tides. But he would rather help Trump into power, than to stop a fucking Genocide.
Stop blaming the people who are voting and start holding the people in power accountable for their actions. That is the entire point of threatening not to vote fore the Dems.
Yeah but the problem is we live in at least a pro-fascist state if not a fascist state already. So convincing people who realize this to vote for the guy who has been voting for fascist policies for decades (as well as some progressive ones, for those who will say I’m ignoring the “good” he’s done) and is actively supporting genocide not just in policy but in his statements and apparently beliefs is going to be pretty tough. It’s not just about voting “not Trump” anymore, people also want to vote “not Biden”.
While I would call Biden a fascist (and I do), your logic doesn’t follow. Would I call every Biden voter a fascist? No. Fascist apologist or enabler, maybe.
You will understand this when you understand why most people who have more than 20s of geopolitical memory associate people who unironically rant about evil Zionists with neo-nazis.
Because even though they would prefer the fascists don’t get into power, the wealthy Democrat politicians know they won’t be too adversely affected by it.
The hypocrisy comes when millions of vulnerable people they pretend to care about actually suffer as a direct result of their nihilism. Acceptable costs, right?
It really is shocking that more people on the “Lemmy left” don’t see this. The US is one of the most tolerant places in the world for a bunch of otherwise marginalized groups. Pretending that it is irredeemable and must be destroyed because of your cold war grudge is destroying one of their biggest safe spaces and condemning them to suffer.
I’m going to give you a serious answer even though it’s obvious you know nothing about us and don’t care to learn.
Accellerationism is stupid and reactionary, and from my perspective Biden seems to be doing a fine job of doing that as it is. Trump is a symptom produced from the policies Biden has spent his entire career enacting. There will be plenty more candidates like Trump, because the material conditions that produced him still exist, and Biden is perpetuating and worsening those conditions.
The US is in decline and that’s not going to change regardless of who wins this election. What I’d most prefer is to refocus our efforts domestically in order to address some of the many different crises that the country is experiencing. If we did this, it’s likely that China would eventually eclipse the US due to it’s manufacturing capacity, but the lives of everyday people would be improved and the country would become more stable and healthy. Whether the decline could be reversed, I don’t know, but it would at least be a gradual, peaceful decline.
But that’s never going to happen, even a little bit. Instead, our leaders are intent on getting involved in conflicts all over the world while ignoring all the problems at home and allowing things to get worse and worse. The geopolitical interests of the US government are completely disconnected from the interests of the American people.
The US doesn’t need to collapse for China to grow. China’s strategy for many years has been a policy of peaceful coexistence with capitalist states while it focuses on economic development. And that strategy is proving successful. The only concern is what the US is going to do once it becomes eclipsed as global hegemon, and the concerning thing is that while China manufactures more than the next 10 countries combined, the US spends more on the military than the next 10 countries combined. The possibility that the US could start WWIII in an attempt to maintain hegemony by pressing the area where it has an advantage is deeply concerning.
Even if you believe, as you probably do, that Xi Jinping is paying me to run around some niche corner of the internet pretending to be Phoenix Wright - why would China actually want to destabilize the US? They’re already winning the peace.
Hm, read a dissertation from a Uighur genocide fan who communicates in childish video game cartoons, or focus on people who aren’t delusional? Tough choice for me but I’ll have to go with the latter.
phoenix-objection-1phoenix-objection-2 In a court of law, evidence is the only thing that matters! Your baseless accusations are… completely meaningless!
There is a contradiction in this testimony! You literally just called my previous comment a “dissertation” and refused to read it! So it’s impossible for you to know if my thoughts are substantive or not!
The defense would like to submit a piece of evidence: this tweet!
Or they understand that all this apolgetics for the Dems being the lesser of two evils just results in them being the same evil, just four years later. The Dems are still running internment camps at the border. They are still building Trumps wall.
By never threatening them with actual consequences to their power, you give them a blanket check to fuck everyone over for their rich donors. And that is exactly what they did and continue to do.
No they are not the same evil, and it insults the intelligence to pretend otherwise. And threatening the Dems with consequences by giving power to people who are even worse on those issues than them? That does the opposite of what you’re hoping - it encourages that kind of behaviour.
We got to where we are because the right has pulled the window further and further, step by step, for years - and we have to do the same. The system doesn’t just change overnight.
You have to understand that a win for Trump this year is a total win for the far right and a total loss for the left. Anyone pretending otherwise is hopelessly misguided or intentionally stumping for the fascists.
We got to where we are because the right has pulled the window further and further, step by step, for years - and we have to do the same. The system doesn’t just change overnight.
Because the Dems were happy to shift the window with them instead of pulling on the other side. Telling them “Either you pull it back now, or there is no reason to vote for you.” Is the only way they will be motivated to not help the Reps pushing further to the right.
Sure just like in 2016 after we withheld our votes from HIllary and let the far right get all their wishes. The Dems realized how wrong they were and came pandering to leftists.
But surely it’ll work this time, at least we don’t have that many liberal justices left to lose on SCOTUS.
Because you accepted Hillary 2.0 with Biden. The DNC is laughing their asses off, as they keep shoving a “establishment” aka far right imperialist neo-liberal economics candidate down your throat. And now they are gas lighting you, to blame you for them only giving your candidates that are against your interests and against human rights and international law.
They need all the Jews to return to Israel and the temple to be rebuilt so Jesus can come back. Of course, that does mean expelling all Jews from every other country Jews are in, but they leave that part out.
“Over there” is fine, which is why American Racism dovetails so neatly with Zionism: both desire the same, just from different directions.
PS: I was going to say “Fascism” instead of “American Racism”, but frankly if there is one thing this whole situation has made clear is that Liberals are also all about different treatment depending on a person’s etnicity - as made so puignantly clear in their reaction to recent university demonstrations as well as by the very different language used in the Liberal Press when it comes to Palestinians and Israelis - so it’s really just both variants of Racism in the US.
Congress is bipartisan pro-Israel. This isn’t even a presidential issue.
Biden just happens to be the guy doing the pro-Israel stuff at the moment, so he’s eating the lions share of the public ire.
“You have to support the Pro-Israel guy because the other guy is pro-Israel and both party leaders are pro-Israel and the cops are trained by Israelis and Israeli businesses have strong ties with the MIC and Big Finance needs Israel to control trade through the Suez and you’re outnumbered and outgunned so quit fighting, just vote for Joe Biden” just isn’t a winning message among progressive voters this year.
The thing is: Biden is pro-Israel but also pro-Palestinians. He’s providing aid to Gazans and pressuring Israel to minimize civilian casualties. It’s not great, or even good, I agree - but it’s a whole lot better than Trump who would be pro-Israel and anti-Palestinians. You’d see humanitarian aid end and the US support total war instead of the (slightly) restrained version we’re seeing now.
Right now it seems like the Biden Administration is trying to pressure Israel not to launch a military assault on Rafah and to allow in more humanitarian aid. At the same time, it has shown an unwillingness to take strong steps to punish Israel or to restrict the flow of aid or weapons to Israel if the Israelis disregard that pressure. How do you understand the strategy now?
I’d call the Biden Administration’s approach “passive-aggressive.” They are angry at Netanyahu, and were even before this. He’s presiding over the most extreme government in the history of the state of Israel. That government and the preceding dozen years of Netanyahu’s tenure are undermining the two fundamental drivers of the U.S.-Israeli relationship, which are shared values and common interests. So, it’s passive-aggressive in the sense that, six months into the war, the Administration has still been unwilling—unable—to impose a single cost or consequence that you and I, as normal human beings, would describe as real pressure.
Unable or unwilling?
Both, but I’ll get to that in a second. There were three levers the Administration could’ve pulled. They’re still available. No. 1 is to end U.S. military assistance. There’s no indication the Administration’s anywhere close to that. It just approved a shipment of two-thousand-pound bombs, and twenty F-35s. No. 2, change the U.S. voting posture at the U.N., either by introducing its own Security Council resolution, or by voting for someone else’s, that is very critical of Israel. It has not done that. No. 3, abandon the whole notion of negotiating the hostage release and simply join the chorus of those in the international community who basically say, “You need to pressure Israel to cease this military campaign.”
And I think it has not done these things
Biden is pro-Getting Relected. And he recognizes that his party is increasingly pro-Palestinian. However, his current policy appears to be a CYA strategy, intended to create the illusion of neutrality while negotiating a path that allows Israel to continue its extermination of Arab people across the region.
As this exterminationist Israeli agenda becomes more undeniable, the job of appearing neutral grows more difficult. And Biden’s decision to (tacitly) back Israel at all costs means risking friendly relations with Turkyie, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. However, he’s staying the course, precisely because he’s banking on a mass expulsion and genocide of Palestinians today will strengthen Israel’s regional position in the future.
The Nazis also proclaimed to be helping the Jews as they were putting them into Ghettos and then industrially murdering them in the Concentration Camps.
I’m sure it can easily be proven development has been ongoing for years. Make a press release saying how your company is proud to announce the culmination of years of research, development, and hard work… And/Or phase out the old boards in batches. Just stop buying as many, have both versions for a while.
And once again, as the foreign trolls that are busy courting our youth want, not one comment in this entire thread mentions that Europe is on the brink of open modernized war should Ukraine fall to vlad “Ukraine is just a stepping stone” putin.
Gaza is a genocide, but that is not the critical geopolitical stage to be paying the most attention to. Once again it is completely ignored that the heads of hamas who attacked israel on oct 7 knowing exactly what they were about to cause are friends of putin.
The Gaza genocide was provoked precisely to pull western eyes from the Ukrainian front where russia was more than underperforming to ensure their victory in a sustained war of attrition.
You want to avoid a world war? You vote for biden whether u do it proudly or do it holding ur nose the way most of the sane will.
The onus to sane action is on everyone. Israel is in the wrong no matter which way u cut the pie. It does not mean that ignoring whats happening north of israel is validated bc the apartheid state is acting the way it always has.
Or at least Biden to reverse course and admit supporting Israel isn’t worth the possibility of losing the election.
Liberals and moderates love to tell us about the choice in front of us between Biden and Trump. But they ignore the choice in front of them which is supporting Israel or losing the election.
The Gaza genocide did not start on Oct 7, much like the Russian incursion on Unkraine did not start in Jan 2022. Both of those are tremendous blights on human rights and should be equally condemned.
Of course, voting for Biden is the only stable option as much as one may lament that it shouldn’t be.
The other candidate will also support the Gaza genocide. Again, it’s unfortunate that both candidates are evil. And supporting the lesser evil is a bad long term strategy.
The Gaza genocide did not start on Oct 7, much like the Russian incursion on Unkraine did not start in Jan 2022.
This is very very true, and i didnt mean to imply otherwise. Ive been hating on the apartheid state in israel for a very very long time now, and as someone born in Poland, i need no reminders of the evil the russian state causes both at home and abroad. I highly appreciate the added clarity, i should have been more clear in the first place.
Both of those are tremendous blights on human rights and should be equally condemned.
Theyre both deserving of equal condemnation insofar as both are crimes against humanity, but the one is a much more slippery slope towards more genocide than i think many in the states realize. Russian imperial sentiments towards Poland, Lithuania, and Finland (of the very next in line) have been painfully clear to anyone paying attention to the past 100 years of history, and doubly so to anyone aware of “Foundations of Geopolitics.”
Im not trying to say that the death of one group is worse than anothers, but i am saying that one conflict is a direct precursor to (for the modern age) unprecedented levels of death and destruction.
I am also willing to elaborate that sucking apartheid israels proverbial dick is something the US has been doing since before most of us were born, and that bidens stance on israel is less than par for the course in that hes the first head of state to outright say things like, “maybe israel should hold new elections bc of how fucked up their treatment of Palestinians is.” Thats less than anyone wants or especially needs, but it does show represent more wavering from democratic leadership than one would expect. It also is further proof that the lemmy trolls telling u that the dems are getting more rightwing are full of it. We’re on the cusp of the reins being passed on from the old generation onto the new. I agree biden shouldnt be the choice in a sane world, but a sane world it is not, and we can hope for far more with the boomers coming out of power so long as our democracy isnt just pissed the fuck away.
I'm not worried. I'm just utterly disappointed in the younger generation. Not in the whole typical way you'd expect older generations to be towards the younger ones.
It's more along the sense of "put down your fucking memes and jokes for abit and realize the reality that's around you" deal. Because we're now seeing the Onion practiced in our daily lives, we can't make the shit up that is actively happening in real time. And it doesn't affect just me, it affects you too.
We can't be putting off this shit forever and sit there going "aww, I just hope it gets better" naturally.
Because let's put it this way, say you don't vote this general election and Biden wins. Okay, cool, we've dodged Trump. But know that in the next 4 years, Biden is not eligible to be re-elected so good on you to no longer see him on the ballot, but you'll never know who could be next after him and there isn't a lot of strong favorability for his VP either. Trump for all we know, is likely going to run until he dies, so he's going to be trying again and again so long as he's living and so long as his voter base is there to back him.
But even when he dies, god knows what the Republicans will try propping up. We've got a bit of a glimpse of that when known fascists like DeSantis tried running for presidency. The only reason him and other candidates has lost is because they can't touch Trump. But when Trump does die, you know they'll be back again.
My point is we need to keep Republican interests the fuck away. They're nothing but destruction. How much evidence do you need before you see that? It's all fun and games to you with your jokes and memes until you're on the internet bitching and griping for why you think shit hits the fan or why you're struggling to make a living.
The second Trump starts losing favor with his voters or ability to fundraise the party will drop him super hard and fast.
If he loses again, AND the Republicans get mopped down the ballot, you’ll start seeing people drop him or hang him out to dry like rats fleeing a sinking ship
The younger generation is getting their asses kicked in the name of human rights at colleges all over the country. The kids are alright. We can’t expect a bunch of 18 to 25-year-olds to solve all our problems for us.
White millennial and Gen X Americans need to wake up to their privilege and make sure Trump does not win.
But know that in the next 4 years, Biden is not eligible to be re-elected so good on you to no longer see him on the ballot
I have full faith in the ability for moderates and liberals to shove an equally terrible candidate through the 2028 primaries. It will likely be HRC. Again.
So you’re a Bernie Sanders supporter huh? Hmmm… Tell you what, let’s see Bernie and Biden have a meet up and discuss a roadmap for if either candidate wins so neither gets thrown into the flaming pits of hell and we might see the common folk progress reports hahaha
He had 4 years to shore up his weakness with black southern voters and never did. He could’ve offered Bootyjudge VP in exchange for staying in the race and keeping the center vote split but didn’t.
Because when idiots hear Socialism they see Communism and it’s frighteningly easy to start a red scare propaganda campaign to keep him off the big ticket.
The guy who fixes my car basically runs a French-style salon out of his shop, and he told me, “The South Will never vote Socialist.” Seems he’s right so far. That and he goes against the powers that be… Bernie would have been a nightmare for the rich and powerful.
When I was young my parents introduced me to some old school Communists; folks who’d fought in the Spanish Civil War and been blacklisted in the 1950s.
One of the stories they told was that back in 1968 the oldtimers were warning people to vote for Hubert Humphrey because they knew how bad Nixon would be, Too many young folks then thought ‘both sides are the same.’
I mean I dunno maybe they shouldn’t have ran a guy named hubert humphrey, sounds like the name you’d give to a fictional whale in a children’s novel hoo lee
We watched Donald do worse than Watergate on live news broadcasts.
Hmm, what to do? Better throw my ballot in the trash, because I am against genocide. If anything gets worse under this openly racist putsch planner screeching about dictatorship and absolute immunity, well, there was no way to have seen that coming, right?
Go to Vermont. Like, seriously. Even though that state has a republican governor, Vermont is like one of the few states that gives a shit about a lot of rights.
Assuming you’re in the LGBT spectrum … sorry to say even there you might not be safe if Trump gets a second term. Things have softened for the LGB so those folks might be okay, but trans folks … I’d be worried.
It also weakens purple states and national power when blue voters move out of purple states… Personally, I’d highly encourage folks moving to purple states to turn them more blue.
Michigan or Pennsylvania might be a good choice. I keep holding out for Ohio, but we need to give the gerrymandering issues (hopefully we finally will this year).
Living in Ohio with my trans husband, we’re moving to Vermont this summer to get away from it all. I feel like I’m shirking my duty by taking our votes with us, but we really don’t want to be here come November. Ohio has gone to Trump two for two, and I’m not feeling lucky on number three.
As a trans person in a deep blue state, I’m hoping my state’s politics give me just enough buffer time that I can find a way to GTFO before the gestapo comes for me
Yeah, nowhere is confirmed safe. Fascism is attempting to ascend. Welcome to the 1930s, get a passport and fill a backpack with non perishable calorie dense food.
Can you lay out a detailed plan showing Biden exactly what to do? Something that covers not just the Palestinians and the Israelis, but alos the iranians, the sryians, the russians, the Saudis, and all the other interested and highly armed parties in the region?
I have no idea how to restart a problem that’s been formenting since 1948, do you?
Yes I agree it’s upsetting when the choice placed in front of you is too reductive. I know exactly how you feel. But sometimes that’s how life is. What’s your choice?
Biden is dealing with a hugely complex issue that has baffled diplomats for over a century.
My choice is to trust Biden. The other option is to not vote for him and hope that Trump doesn’t do more of the stuff he did last time; allow mobs to kill innocent people; destroy the economy; roll back enviromental laws; roll back LGBTQ+ laws; make abortion a punishable offence; and Trump would probably give Israel more nukes.
The communist party of America consistently votes democrat and doesn’t run a candidate. Same with the American Nazi party and republicans.
My attitude is simple, deal with the problems you can impact. The 2024 elections will not result in a loss of support for Israel. A fascist wants to run a coup in America. That’s on the table, he’s running for president. That’s a problem we can deal with.
There’s a line from the last season of ‘The West Wing’ that I always think of.
It’s election Day and the GOP and Dem campaign managers run into each other in the hotel bar. One turns to the other and tells this story.
"Got into the cab at the airport and started chatting with the cab driver. He’s a really smart guy and we’re having a great chat. Just before I get out I ask him who he’s voting for today.
"He shakes his head. Damn, he tells me, I forgot it was election Day.’
Yepppp, I’ve had to tell so many people. I think it’s one of the benefits I got from being raised by a dyed in the wool democrat. We’d argue over a lot as I was pretty radical even as a teenager, but she taught me the value of voting and participating in the democratic process. And arguing with her taught me the value of convincing everyday folks of your position.
I hate to tell the demsocs that we probably won’t elect away the capital holding class, I’d love it if we could, but we won’t. But we sure as shit can fail to vote to keep our worker protections and environmental protections. And we can vote to get a better situation, it just won’t be a revolution all on its own.
The lesser of two evils argument only works if at some point you eventually give the people voting someone to vote for who is not evil. When you are forced to vote for evil after a while you lose hope and say screw this I’m not voting at all.
Yeah and downvoting a racist will just alienate them and push them further right, and yet we still downvote.
While occasionally someone might realize that they are in the wrong, the value of condemnation is in signaling to the community that such views are not tolerated.
The establishment is not going to give up, they must be beaten at their own game. Perseverance is key. If you give up, you give up on your cause and accept whatever the establishment wishes.
Do what you want, but I will persevere, and I will vote for my interests.
Do you ever think with what little braincells that you have left in your skull cavity, that there are better and more qualified female candidates?
I would've preferred Elizabeth Warren than Hilary Clinton, which Warren did get some support but Clinton ended up pulling front because of the corporate side of democrats wanted her more.
How about them apples, idiot. Next time think a little more and who else was involved before name calling like an uninformed 14 year old who spams buzzwords.
“We can be extremely upset at the Biden administration for their policies with regard to Israel and Gaza, but the difficulty is that in the real world that you live in, you’ve got to take a look at a whole lot of things,” he said, sitting in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee hearing room on Capitol Hill. “On the other hand, I would hope that most of the young people and protestors do not want to see Donald Trump, who is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe who doesn’t acknowledge the reality of climate change, become elected president of the United States.”
Also trump is aligned with Netanyahu and is friends with him. Do they think trump being elected will have Israel have peace with Gaza because it would definitely be the opposite. This is playing out like the Carter/Regan election with the Iran Hostage Crisis in a losing effort for Biden if they don’t figure it out.
Yeah, Bernie always carries water for the DNC, and it’s always to the detriment of progressive American politics.
…got to take a look at a lot of things
Record oil and gas drilling, multi-time failure to codify Roe, redlining, gave away the public option, Manchin’s removed, Bibi’s removed, tricked Warren to betray Bernie for nothing, fascist crackdown on peacefully protesting college kids, ancient dinosaur who’s out of touch. I could go on.
There are other options aside from red and blue, and as a swing state voter, I’ll be taking them. The establishment Dems would have you be angry with me and those like me, but this is a misdirection and also just another of Biden’s failings - no ability to take responsibility for his own reprehensible actions.
Americans like you are the absolute worst. So damn irresponsible. All that undeserved extra voting power you have, and you choose to squander it and use it for an act of shameful self-righteousness, with no regard for the consequences of your actions. You clearly have zero respect for progressive politics, progressive movements, and even progressive leaders.
Ignorant liberal voters: as useful for destroying democracy as ignorant fascists
I’m always teleported back to grade school and the token, “rough home life” kid. They sit there and back talk the teacher all day long applying their contrarian logic to everything little thing. Hell, on some level I’d even agree with them but not because they’re right in what they are doing but they accidentally make a salient point. The end of the day, though, the teacher was attempting to do good for this kid and we all just watch as they throw it back in their face.
To bad they also have no idea how they foreclosed our future, though the window for them to not have to confront the awful cynicism of their choices has justttt about closed (you can actually see the gates now off in the distance, they are the 33 named storms expected by quite shellshocked meterologists and storm forecasters to pummel the Carribean and North America this summer in what is projected to be one of the worst hurricane seasons on record by about as far as the distance is between the sea temperatures off the coast of Africa where hurricanes are born are being ALREADY AT THE TEMPERATURES THEY NORMALLY ONLY REACH IN LATE JUNE OR JULY and whatever the shitty record used to be)
Game theory is a tough subject, but it would be worth it for you to study to understand how you are acting against your less preferred candidate and helping what should be your least preferred candidate (assuming your ranked choice has the republican nominee below the democratic nominee).
Keep voting for 99% … gets us to the same place
You make it seem as though your protest vote does not also get us to the same place? Many voters have shared your mentality and voted accordingly for the past 200+ years and it’s not made a difference, what makes you think this time things will change?
Voting for Biden gets us to the same place. At least I’m voting for “not genocide”
So FUCKING TIRED of the “moral” wing of our single party govt this go round staying completely silent on Republicans and their policies to blame the world on anyone who won’t “vote blue no matter who” though even mainstream Democrats and pundits can’t come up with anything better than “yeah Biden does it but trump will do it worse!”
I don’t give a fuck how hot a take it is - if “voting for not genocide” makes me a filthy commie than let me fetch my sickle and hammer. Enjoy your “moral high ground” of blaming all our problems on people who think genocide is bad (or making it easy to strip leftist orgs of non profit status, or a handful of other things y’all libs purposefully ignore in lieu of pushing your false narrative that anyone left of Biden are “single issue voters” who “advocate for not voting.”
In “The Ultimatum Game,” the first player makes an offer of how to split $100 with a second player, who can then choose whether to accept or deny the offer. If they accept, they split the money as proposed, if they refuse, neither of them get anything.
The game theory rational outcome is for the first player to offer $99-$1, and for the second player to accept. Assuming, of course, that the first player knows the second will act according to game theory rationality. In real life, when experiments have been done, people tend to reject offers past about $70-$30. Because people tend to have a minimum line, it makes more sense to make offers more generous than $99-$1.
There’s a good reason why people behave that way. It’s because, in practice, when a comparable situation comes up, it’s usually not just a one and done interaction. The second player can tell the first what they will or won’t accept, and if they accept something less than what they said, they lose credibility in the future. In that sort of situation, the worst possible thing for the second player to tell the first is that they intend to act according to their rational self-interest, that they’ll accept any offer because it’s better than getting nothing.
I would argue that this situation is analogous to voting. The politicians make an offer on how much they’ll do for you vs how much they’ll benefit themselves, and the voter has the option to accept or refuse the offer. Just as in the above example, it’s sometimes better to refuse a bad offer even if the alternative is worse, in order to gain bargaining power and credibility in the future. Meanwhile, following a strategy of “lesser-evilism” guarantees that you will only ever be offered 99-1 splits, because they know you’ll accept 1 rather than zero.
Sometimes, an “irrational” strategy can be more effective than what appears to be game theory rational on the surface level.
Biden is not fuckin Hitler, you enlightened genius!
Keep voting for Ralph Nader Gary Johnson … err I mean Jill Stein instead of doing something useful.
Seriously, what’s the worse that could happen? It’s not like Bush will get us into a massive war and end any hope at fighting climate change err I mean, it’s not like Trump will enflame the ongoing war in the Middle East and decimate any chance the Supreme Court will side with minorities for an entire generation no wait, I mean, surely Trump won’t imprison his political enemies and dismantle the electoral process.
Ignore what I crossed out; it’s just American history. You probably wouldn’t be interested
There are other options aside from red and blue, and as a swing state voter, I’ll be taking them.
me when I decide to waste my vote as a swing state voter, instead of meaningfully pulling my support for a candidate that’s ultimately going to get elected anyways out of protest as a non-swing state voter:
Thanks. Everyone needs a mirror held up to themselves or have their actions questioned. No one can be truly objective, but we’re social animals. Take it easy.
How is failure to codify Roe on your list and you don’t give a shit if we have more fundamentalist judges or not?
How is oil and gas drilling on your list and you don’t give a shit if the executive branch is actively dismantling the EPA or not?
I also hate Manchin, you think a progressive Dem is going to be elected in WV? It’s either him or a Repub.
I’m not mad at you, specifically, but it is enraging to see dimwits throw their ballots in the trash. Good luck to all of us. Your preferred system is not going to rise from the ashes.
Resize the court is obviously the only solution to this broken situation primed to let the criminal, traitor Trump walk free.
EPA doesn’t mean shit when energy companies are lobbying both sides. Is this supposed to be a determining factor? Look no further than mayor Pete’s handling of East Palestine, OH for your answer.
Richard Ojeda actually had a good chance in WV until the DNC poured millions into attack ads to keep their establishment dog in power. Said dog went on to ram through yet another disastrous pipeline thanks to Biden , lining both their pockets with oil and gas money, before riding off into the sunset.
Luck has nothing to do with it with a system so brutally rigged against the populace. Neither of these “sides” is ever going to do anything beyond exploiting us. I’ll use what little power remains in my vote to try for an alternative. If more people believed something better was possible, perhaps we could yet achieve it.
Nah, you’re using what little power remains in your vote to line a trashcan. And you don’t care about the consequences because you are privileged enough that you won’t be directly targeted by Repubs.
But the important thing is you’ll have owned the “Bothsides Uniparty” by… helping Donald get elected? Yeah, the massive tax cuts will really sting their butts. Good thinking.
Steadfast in binary thinking, how boring and small.
Not sure if you’re aware, but Biden admin is responsible for locking in those Trump tax cuts for the rich and corporations you’re so upset about. I’m being targeted by Dems right now at college campuses across the country, and there is an option left of them which would instead prioritize green infrastructure and organized labor. The choice for me is clear.
Is the extent of your support for Biden limited to “not Trump”? Yikes.
Can you just save it for a different election? I’m all about 3rd party politics making inroads. But, Jill Stein is NOT going to be elected this time around. Sorry to break it to you. And if Trump gets elected, guess what: we might not have free and fair elections to vote for 3rd parties at all! What’s the plan then?
We are now faced with the fact that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history, there “is” such a thing as being too late. This is no time for apathy or complacency. This is a time for vigorous and positive action. -Martin Luther King Jr.
Not sure how long you’ve been voting, but as it turns out according to DNC every election is the most important of our lifetime, and the alternative would be all out fascism. I invite you to consider the words of Dr King and why they matter so much today.
The end of the day I won’t blame the young people, though. I will blame the red hat fascists who want to install an orange dictator.
Edit: Young people get a pass because at least they are passionate about something. I’m over here, dead inside, praying to a computer that things don’t get any worse then they already are.
I’m not angry. I regret voting third-party in an election that barely elected Bush, a year before 9/11, that he used to justify a two front war resulting in nearly one million deaths. I’m encouraging others to learn from my mistake.
I’m voting Biden despite it not meaning very much in my deep red state. I show up for down ballot elections, though. The presidency is only one hurdle. Reclaiming the government at state and local levels is way more important.
Right. I wish people were upset about not having ranked choice as they were the genocide in Gaza. If we changed the way we voted voting for the lesser evil wouldn’t be a thing.
The fact you phrase it as though that’s an actual question is terrifying. You’re comparing someone who wants to LITERALLY be a dictator and never have an election again, to someone who isn’t willing to fully embrace every last left-wing policy you demand.
The “ruling class” didn’t dictate Bernie not getting the Democratic nomination, people voting in primaries did. Do you know which group of people overwhelmingly don’t vote in primaries? The same 20-somethings bitching about Biden being the “only other option”. Get the fuck out of here with your “demonstrating to the ruling class” - you had your opportunity to show up and overwhelm the primaries and chose not to. The “ruling class” don’t have the numbers to determine a primary, and if you choose to watch their commercials and buy into it, that’s on you. But hey, if a bunch of people think like you’ll they’ll find out what actually living in a dictatorship is like. And no, Canada isn’t just going to welcome you with open arms when the world starts burning down around you so I hope you’ve got an exit strategy.
Recently came across project 2025, which is a plan to upend the government for trump to run it like a dictatorship. It’s actually frightening to even entertain the possibility. And I’m guessing it’s derived from how putin got to his dictatorship position, because trump really likes putin and met with him too often.
Personally, i’m worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.
If you are worried about the Palestinians, do you expect Trump to be more lenient in that regard? I think it would be even worse with Trump. He’d not be mildly criticizing Netanyahu, but would rather asking Netanyahu why he isn’t going further
But as someone who doesn’t have to live in the hellhole called the US, sees that they are represented by their own politicians accurately. The US let it come this far because the US decided to perpetuate a system that just makes everything worse due to lesser evil politics. So by USean logic, voting Biden prevents worse things from happening to Palestinians compared to Trump. But I personally would vote for someone who accurately represents my stances instead of buying into the lesser evilism in a messed up system.
Personally, i’m worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.
he’s aware of the optics of his positions and voting history; that’s why he reversed course on gay marriage; gays in the military and federal service long after it was popular and gave the barest of minimums for weed and student loans that didn’t have much of an impact on the status quo.
palestine is the one thing he won’t budge on; but he’ll (somewhat) do all of the other things that’ll get him votes like he’s always done and give the people not paying enough attention warm fuzzy feels for supporting him.
i think the worst take away from this election cycle is learning that most american’s don’t give a rat’s ass about genocide; so long as their guy wins and get to express regret over it. (i also wonder if that’s how every other genocide is/was allowed to happen).
Yup. (I was just mirroring Bernie’s verbiage and flipping the active subject)
Biden is the quintessential capital-L Liberal: he is performatively responsive to progressive issues, but only insofar as it does not alter the fundamental power structures of the western capitalistic and chauvinistic principles.
as a black person i’m worried that donald trump’s batting average isn’t showing the potential it should be this season. he should spend more time in the cages.
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