We’re now finding out the damaging results of the mandated return to the office–and it’s worse than we thought

Surprising no one but the mgmt teams…

Unispace found that nearly half (42%) of companies with return-to-office mandates witnessed a higher level of employee attrition than they had anticipated. And almost a third (29%) of companies enforcing office returns are struggling with recruitment. In other words, employers knew the mandates would cause some attrition, but they weren’t ready for the serious problems that would result.

Meanwhile, a staggering 76% of employees stand ready to jump ship if their companies decide to pull the plug on flexible work schedules, according to the Greenhouse report. Moreover, employees from historically underrepresented groups are 22% more likely to consider other options if flexibility comes to an end.

In the SHED survey, the gravity of this situation becomes more evident. The survey equates the displeasure of shifting from a flexible work model to a traditional one to that of experiencing a 2% to 3% pay cut.

neomis,

My wife and I left our company when they clawed us back to the office. It’s been 3 years now and there is 0 chance we’ll go back at this point. For all the big companies complaining about their empty buildings there are medium size players happy to poach top talent and let them work remote

JDubbleu, (edited )

Im currently complying with RTO because my office is close to my house and it is convenient, but there are talks of forcing employees to relocate to where the majority of their team is which would be halfway across the country for me. Needless to say we’re losing people in droves and many medium/small companies are picking up tons of talent.

HubertManne,
HubertManne avatar

pfft. my office is a few blocks away but I still prefer to walk my dog and make a fresh lunch at lunch..

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

I’d look for new work if my current job increased in-person requirements. Sorry commercial real estate bag holders, you’re in for a rough ride

crazyminner,

Sorry not sorry. Those rich cunts can burn.

june,

I bought a house that’s further away from where my office was than I’d have ever considered buying if not for the permanent wfh change made during the pandemic.

I’m now a minimum of an hour away from where most jobs would be in-person, and that’s not something I’m ever willing to do again.

BlueSquid0741,

I also did this, and as a family we’re much happier, but recent return to office mandates now mean I travel 1.5 hours each way 3 times a week, also at a cost of $80 in petrol.

We’re not willing to give up our life to move back, so I am definitely keeping eyes open for similar paying jobs that have less in-person requirements.

penguin,

It’s not because of commercial real estate that offices are forcing people back.

It’s simply because managers who are in charge of making that decision prefer to be in the office.

They like everyone in the office, so they’re forcing it on everyone. Either because it makes them feel more powerful to look at all their underlings, because they enjoy working face-to-face (probably how they got high up in the company), or because they suck at their jobs and can only micro-manage by looking over people’s shoulders

_finger_,

Middle managers/controllers will be automated soon, no worries.

aesthelete,

I wish I shared your optimism. ChatGPT looks like a drop in replacement for some of the buzzword spouting VPs already but I wouldn’t hold my breath because they’ve been using it as an excuse to get rid of the rank and file instead.

Tinks,

Absolutely. This was the entire reason the CEO at my last company forced everyone to return to office, giving local managers zero latitude to allow flexibility. He sent out videos saying crazy things like “introvert or extrovert, we’re all energized by working in person together!” Just completely tone deaf bullshit. We got a month’s notice for when we had to return, and I found a new job in that month and am much happier now.

Zero reason for people to be in the office if they can be just as productive as home, and happier doing it.

NotAnonymousAtAll, (edited )

In the SHED survey, the gravity of this situation becomes more evident. The survey equates the displeasure of shifting from a flexible work model to a traditional one to that of experiencing a 2% to 3% pay cut.

Those number seem way too low to me. Just picking some semi-random numbers, let’s assume a 40 hour work week and an average travel time to work and back of 1 hour per day, so 5 hours per week. Being forced to come to the office would then be equivalent to 12.5% more of your time spent to earn the same amount of money. Of course that scales depending on how far away from the workplace you live, but for 3% or 2% to be realistic you would basically have to live right next door.

BaldManGoomba,

Let’s not even account for the other added expenses of going to work. Like clothes, different food, gas, car repairs, and lost time for flexibility of appointments.

UniquesNotUseful,

Also when you are paying for those that is after tax as well. So I save about £2k a year just on travel costs, that’s the same as a £3k pay increase.

NoIWontPickaName,

You have a 50% tax rate?

h4mi,

3k before tax and 2k after, is 33%. Not 50%. 33% is normal for a medium-high earner in Europe.

NoIWontPickaName,

Yep, I see where I fucked up the math there now.

Feathercrown,

It is always weird that percentages aren’t reversible like that

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

WFH saves me ~$4000 per year in gas & wear & tear alone. 4 cyl sedan with a 30 mile round trip.

Trainguyrom,

WFH allows my family to own only a single car saving $1000/year in insurance costs alone

jasondj,

Even if they are next door, who cares. If you’ve got hybrid/remote status, you don’t have to put on pants today. Some days you just don’t want to get out of your pajamas.

And if you are within walking/biking/no-transfer range, chances are there’s a bunch more other employers in the neighborhood, and several of them will let you work hybrid.

penguin,

People aren’t that logical. Most people feel more pain losing something than never getting it in the first place (eg: rolling back an accidental raise would be worse to someone than not getting the raise at all)

If you tell people to get back to work or lose 3% pay, you’ll get more takers than offering people a 3% bump. Although they’ll be very disgruntled of course.

HubertManne,
HubertManne avatar

I use 25% (or 5% per day required in office premium). I assume an hour commute. Usually its less but it tends to be close enough. Its a bit of an over estimation but that all is easily covered by things like walking the dog at lunchtime and eating cheaper and healthier. Along with seeing my wife even if I don't have time to talk there is something about just being around. Oh and using my own bathroom with my prefered bath tissue. No catching other peoples kids crud. Man the list goes on and on.

Jaysyn,
Jaysyn avatar

Meanwhile, since we like money more than control, my company is letting the office lease expire & finding a smaller, cheaper place for our equipment.

robzombie91,

Surprised pikachu face

tym,

WFH 4lyfe. I can’t believe I used to let yall breathe on me.

curiousaur,

It’s awesome being at a permanent remote startup that’s hiring right now, we get the cream of the crop that is leaving those other companies right now.

applejacks,
@applejacks@lemmy.world avatar

Can concur here.

My company, at first, decided to ask everyone to come back into the office.

They were also trying to hire more people, but almost every candidate dropped out once they heard they would be expected to go in.

They’ve now reversed course and let people work from anywhere.

EnderMB,

I work for the Rainforest company.

I genuinely believe that they are hoping, if not praying that RTO results in a huge chunk of people leaving. Alongside forcing people back to the office, they’re now pushing people to relocate to main offices, and limiting teams from hiring internally.

I’d say the same is for many big companies. They’re absolutely desperate for people to leave in order to cut costs and look lean to investors while they take in record profits.

valen,
@valen@lemmy.world avatar

Not everyone can have the luxury of working from home. Most knowledge workers can. Cooks and waitstaff, teachers, mechanics, etc. have to work at the “office”.

SargTeaPot,

I’m a mechanic, I’m yet to find spanners long enough to work from home :(

WheeGeetheCat,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

As someone who contributed to the ‘high level of attrition’ during a forced return to office: it was my pleasure and I’ll do it again.

danielbln,

Thank you for your service (‘-’)7

helixdaunting,

I regret that I have but one job to quit.

corsicanguppy,

Same here. Took a 3% pay cut for 2 years and also upgraded my management team from ‘fuckwits’ to ‘really great’. So, win-tax-win.

Onfire,

I used to do 3 hours round trip commute. I was always exhausted. Can never do that again after i tried work from home.

figaro,

Fuck that lol. I wake up at 7:55, open my laptop, clock in at 7:56, then bring my laptop into the kitchen and eat breakfast.

Corporations who are pushing the narrative that people don’t like this are out of their mind.

corsicanguppy,

Don’t pitch a WFH by bragging about how you’re doing personal stuff (breakfast) on work time.

Also, it’s really beneficial to the workflow if you don’t do work in the kitchen, and don’t eat meals in the home office. Get the downtime, and preserve the separation, while also being adequate on your time-management.

chameleon,

At the office jobs I’ve worked at eating during work hours was fine. Why would WFH be any different? I’m perfectly capable of reading emails and slacks over a bowl of cereal, be it in the office or at home.

figaro,

I bring my laptop to the kitchen and take calls if they come in. I check my email while eating.

I get everything done I need to do. My boss is actually great and encourages us to prioritize being happy, as long as we get everything done in a reasonable amount of time.

Everyone wins this way.

TurboDiesel,
@TurboDiesel@lemmy.world avatar

If you think office drones are 100% productive for all 8 hours I have a bridge to sell you.

There’ve now been several studies showing WFH is a net good for productivity. Instead of hiding in the bathroom to scroll Lemmy, people are taking their 5 minute breaks to do laundry, clean the house, check on the baby - I can’t see how that’s anything but a good thing.

Cyyris,

I do not WFH and unabashedly eat breakfast at my desk every single day lol.

Not a single person has said a word to me, and my direct supervisor and their supervisor have both seen me doing it. Not a word.

My philosophy has always been - and I’ve told the employees who work under me many times - as long as you complete the tasks assigned to you, and are performing the role that you were hired for, I don’t particularly care what you’re doing in the interim (as long as it’s not something that is explicitly against the Code of Conduct). Giving people a little breathing room, and, ya know, treating them like human beings instead of soulless automatons, goes a long way. My team is generally more productive, and is nearly always the front runner for task resolution times compared to the other offices.

EssentialCoffee,

When we were in the office, people were in the kitchen at all hours to get something to eat. I’m not sure how that’s any different than home.

it’s really beneficial to the workflow if you don’t do work in the kitchen, and don’t eat meals in the home office.

Who’s workflow? If you have an issue getting your work done, that’s something that you need to address. If someone else isn’t, then why should they change what they’re doing because you have issues?

Onfire,

My old schedule were wake up at 7:10. Out the door by 7:40. Be at the office by 9:00ish. The most painful part if not the 90 min train ride but the 25 stops… I counted those stops for 5 years.

Branny,

With around 15 years of experience working remote-only, I will never accept a job that mandates a day in the office.

If the role isn’t 100% remote, it is not considered.

Simple as that.

MaDeX,

That’s fine if your job actually is 100% remote.

MapleEngineer,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

My job is 100% remote because I won’t accept anything else. I always ask recruiters if 100% flexibility will be written into my contract. If it won’t I withdraw my name from consideration.

Borkingheck,

I’m assuming you have a set of niche skills not readily available on the market place that must make that easier to enforce?

icesentry,

Pretty much every programming job can be easily done 100% remotely. You don’t need niche skills for that.

eldavi,

programming is a niche skill; that’s why it pays so well.

devil_d0c,

I don’t mean to be contrary, but is it fair to call programming niche when there are degree programs and tech programs (bootcamps) that are widely available? Plus, in some cases, you don’t need a degree or certificates, just a portfolio.

eldavi,

Boot camps and training programs are popular, but the bar to professionally practicing programming is artificially high and it will remain a nich so long as that bar remains artificially high.

devil_d0c,

… I mean… I went to a four year university and got a Batchelors. Now I work as a software engineer. How’s that different from any other career path involving a 4 year degree?

Borkingheck,

If the skills aren’t niche and many people have it, it is easier for an employer to stipulate office work and ignore a candidate demanding remote work.

corsicanguppy,

That’s like saying “being a lifeguard is only okay if you work near a body of water or a pool.” It goes without saying.

So, no need to state the mind-numbingly obvious?

Branny,

Lots of people in the industries I’m in are still trapped in offices or have been forced to return in some capacity.

Lots of jobs can’t be done remotely, and I make it a priority to learn enough to avoid them.

PersnickityPenguin,

I think this is funny, there are a ton of jobs and careers out there that you cannot do remotely. Or, at least the remote aspect suffers.

Every time I read these threads 90% of the posters who are advocating for WFH are programmers who have $25k to drop on a nice shiny home office, and no need to ever interact with another human. Try WFH with a baby for 12 months and you’ll want to jump off of a bridge.

jackofalltrades,

I am on my second child since starting working from home… Never been more productive, never been less stressed out…

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I can’t do my job remotely, but I would if I could. I don’t need to see other people forced in to the office just because I have to come in.

NuPNuA,

Yeah, bit why shouldn’t jobs that can be done at home be done there even if other jobs can’t? Seems like a very crabs in a bucket mentality.

partial_accumen,

Unispace found that nearly half (42%) of companies with return-to-office mandates witnessed a higher level of employee attrition than they had anticipated.

One aspect these articles don’t usually address beyond the attrition rate, is the quality of those leave is usually the highest. So its a double whammy. Not only are you losing workers, you’re losing your best workers. Those best workers have mobility because they are in demand for their skills or ability to execute. So what an employer is left with is even worse, many of those remaining that are lower skilled or less ambitious so their can’t leave or choose not to because they aren’t interested in high achievement at work.

The company’s most valuable asset is their workers. Return-to-office is a loud screaming message to all the company’s workers that “butts in seats” or extraction of the worker’s dollars for corporate tax cuts from municipalities are more important that the worker’s comfort and preference. That leads to the death of companies.

asdfasdfasdf,

Not only that, but your best workers often help the others get better, as well as do code reviews, etc. which means the less good workers will also not be as good in the future, and you’ll spend more time fixing their mistakes.

ultratiem,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

100% this. We literally lost our best and brightest and the end of the pandemic. When I bailed it was B and C grade. Made the last few months very difficult.

It was absolutely brutal!

corsicanguppy,

the quality of those [who] leave is usually the highest.

That’s the Dead Sea Effect. Those who can leave the easiest, do so next in each cycle (once the company crosses the fuckit line). These will be the most valuable.

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_effect

Stumblinbear,
@Stumblinbear@pawb.social avatar

I don’t often toot my own horn, but this is basically me. My work is pushing for people to move to LA into the office after being almost fully remote for a few years. I’ve never set foot in LA, and was hired fully remote. They’re struggling to hire junior devs because their frontend is almost wholly custom JavaScript and nearly completely undocumented. They’re currently stuck with expensive senior devs. I could easily take my title elsewhere for more than they’re paying me, but I like the lax work environment enough to stick around.

The last I heard about the move back to office was February, and they just hired more people out of state. I don’t think they’re pushing for it anymore, haha

Pulptastic,

Many companies, including my previous one, assume their position is stronger than it is. Then they complain and blame millennials’ work ethic when people don’t hang around for their torture like they used to.

ubermeisters,

SMH people don’t hate thier personal lives enough anymore

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