One thing to keep in mind is armed allies keep the persecuted safe and ensure that the vigilantes stop before the moral panic moves to something they are
The solution is so simple to me. Please explain why we can’t just have gender neutral bathrooms with actually private stalls/changing rooms and just a shared handwashing area?
Bathroom bills don’t even seem like they increase bathroom privacy. The only passable justification (which still relies on demonstrably false assumptions and in fact completely backfires in practice) is to “protect women” from “predators”.
In reality, trans people are less likely to be predators than cis, and bathroom bills primarily serve to increase the number of cis people being accosted in bathrooms because they don’t look “normal” enough. So it’s still completely unjustifiably stupid. But it’s the only justification that even makes any sense at the outset even when you believe the fear mongering lies.
Some places are doing exactly that. Went to a restaurant last month that had 6 full doors, behind which were small rooms the size of a stall, and a toilet. When you came out of the little toilet room, there was a place to wash\dry your hands in what was essentially an extra wide hallway leading back to the seating area.
So don’t. It’s a different room, enclosed off from all others. Like a bathroom is intended to be and, indeed, is like, in just about every other civilized country in the world.
As long as fucking pedos don’t start trying to go into my daughters change room I’m fine. But at my local y there’s this trans dude who is basically just a 35 year old bloke that wears a dress, and he gets to go in the girls change room and change with my daughter. I don’t even get to go in there with her. I have no idea what this dude does when he’s in there with her but she’s to tell me if she ever feels uncomfortable.
man when you hear about the rate of CSA/rape/pedophilia among pastors/priests/nuns/monks, prison guards, cops, judges, correctional facility workers, mental health workers, and politicians you’re gonna flip your wig.
Idk how you think I’m wrong for thinking that there’s something messed up about this. My daughter is 12. This man is mid thirties maybe 40. He has spent decades being a man. I think it’s totally unfair that my daughter has to change in the same room as him. It makes her uncomfortable, do her feelings not matter? She has seen his penis once already and told me about it. This has been a thing for months with us. If we know he’s there we make sure he isn’t in the changeroom when my daughter goes in. But sometimes he goes in after she’s already in there and I can’t do anything to stop it. I have never brought this to the attention of the ymca because I understand we’re a progressive society here in Canada and he has rights too. But you can’t say it’s totally insane of me to think that this whole situation is kinda strange. I’m not comfortable with my 12 year old daughter seeing a adult mans penis in a chnageroom sorry. That’s why we have gendered changerooms.
Hey, I also want to say that it is perfectly valid and responsible to want to chaperone a 12 year old in your care in a place that they will be disrobing in front of strangers. My deviation in opinion from you is that I don’t think gender or sex are a factor here. In my opinion, ideally you could accompany your daughter into the changing room so long as you don’t cause problems for anyone else there.
Gender segregation is problematic, wasteful, and unnecessary. It reinforces sexist biases. In my opinion the problem is that you should not be separated from your child in this instance. The discriminatory structure of segregation is separating you from your child and making you feel anxious, and that anxiety is nucleating around a person you have identified as “other”. You should be with your child when preparing to use the services of the Young Man’s Christian Association. It unfortunately has the toxic superstitions and calcified structures of a highly problematic abrahamic society.
The Abrahamic Patriarchy strikes again. I’m sorry for the discomfort it is causing you. Will you help us overthrow the scourge of monotheism?
Is seeing a grown woman’s penis in a changing room somehow worse than seeing a grown woman’s vagina (likely also a common sight in there)? I don’t see the problem here, bodies are bodies. If everyone is being respectful of boundaries and personal space… what is the issue?
And I’m not “using my daughter” she shares the same feelings I do. And I don’t say anything to this guy or the staff I do respect his rights. But what the hell this is just not a good situation and anyone who doesn’t see that, idk what to say. But it’s weird.
They are a trans woman (like Laverne Cox), not a trans dude (like Elliot Page).
If you’re upset that she can go into the changing room because she has a penis, why are you upset that you are not allowed to go into the changing room, since I assume that you have a penis?
I’m merely stating I don’t go in there with her. I didn’t say “I can’t go in there with her, but I want to”. I don’t want to. I want it to be a place for only woman. The rules align with my beliefs.
I was always in the lady’s changing room ages 0-10 when my mother took me swimming. I was in the lady’s bathroom until I was about 7 probably, too. It’s normal for young kids to accompany their parents.
This is something I’m kind of scared of. I’m a cis woman, but I have facial hair for medical reasons. I keep it because it’s what nature gave me and I kinda like how it looks, and people generally don’t seem to care. I do fear, though, that I might be harassed for it someday.
I thought of this with the whole Planet Fitness fiasco. Many, many women shave their faces, but the “can always tell” crowd is so sure that they know men from women.
One of my wife’s cis co-workers has a mustache. She definitely would look like “a man in a dress” to these bigoted fucks. She probably already gets harassed all the time, which is awful because she’s really nice and loves working with the public (she’s a librarian).
Yeah, I’m a trans woman and my girlfriend is cis but she has way more body hair than me because of our ethnicities. She’s probably safe because she has the body type of a Paleolithic fertility idol, but these people aren’t rational and that’s scary.
Like I’m also scared for myself, but I’ve been living with that fear for myself for my entire adult life, so I’m used to it.
Just put enough stalls there aswell as urinals and make it gender neutral. Most men don’t care about women in their bathrooms anyway. It’s - as demonstrated by this article - women that care. Wether it be gender neutral bathrooms or trans athletes it’s almost exclusively biological women that are the only ones with something to lose.
Where I go swimming there’s almost always female staff doing cleaning in the men’s locker and shower rooms and nobody gives a damn. Good luck putting a male cleaner in the female shower space though.
When anyone is the victim of physical violence 95 times out of 100 the perpetrator is male and the vast majority of victims are also male. This is not a competition nor the point of what I said.
The point of what you said was to imply trans women represent a threat to cis women, when that is false and trans women also have just as much to lose in terms of their safety. And now when called out you try to pivot.
And that is false how? What do trans people have to lose here?
I’m not talking about a physical threat. If a trans woman joins a women’s athletic competition the biological women are the ones who lose. With gender neutral bathrooms again it’s biological women that are on the losing side. Trans people have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I as a guy have zero issue with a woman showing up in the men’s bathroom. She can even hold my dick while I piss if she likes. It’s biological women that throw all equality and inclusion out the window the first moment a woman with a deep voice and a cock shows up in the shower room.
And again; I’m all for gender neutrality. It doesn’t affect me one bit so I don’t care.
Trying to pivot to sports won’t save your argument either. Trans women athletes, rare as they are, do not perform outside the range of cis women, nor are the even guarunteed to perform on the high end of that range. For example, a 4ft trans women whos been transitioned since her teens or earlier, is not going to defeat a high performing cis volleyball player.
What you’re doing with your blanket hate and stereotypes disguised as concern is simply punishing trans women for an outcomes that is not guarunteed or even likely.
That’s a cop-out answer. In order to lose something you need to have it in the first place. Trans people don’t have it in the first place. Currently trans people are not free to choose which bathroom to use. I’m suggesting we make all bathrooms gender neutral so what do trans people have to lose here? Nothing. They gain the access to use the same bathrooms as everyone else.
I’m not “pivoting” to sports either. I mention sports in my very first message. There’s a ton of examples of trans women dominating in women’s series on sports. That’s just a biologial fact that’s well established which I’m not even going to debate. There are men’s and women’s series for a reason and the occasional exception isn’t changing that.
I’m not “concerned” about women. You just keep putting words into my mouth and then arguing against the strawman you put up. If we as a society think that trans people are the gender they say they are then biological men and women just have to deal with it. I’m not arguing for that to be a reason for why not to do it. I state that I’m for gender neutrality in my very first message aswell.
I strongly disagree with the accusement that what I’m saying has anything to do with hate. That’s just another false and unfair assesment on your part.
Fuck Florida. Fuck Tennessee. Fuck every red state harming people. Fuck the GOP. Fuck Israel. Fuck 'em. I’m not blind to this being a rightwing problem.
It’s Christianity and always has been. You can’t have a minority be left in peace and distinct in a Christian country. Their book tells them that there is only one way to live, only one way to salvation, only one truth. When you have such a radical monotheistic view of humanity the unavoidable result will be to murder the Other. Any follower of Christ who claims to be tolerant is at best inconsistent at worse bidding their time.
I don’t care what you’ve got in your pants, I just want to fucking pee. Or I very, very badly need to poop. Do whatever you need to with changing diapers or taking your toddler to the bathroom, I don’t care.
The fact that we have different bathrooms points to a societal problem. Men need to keep their hands to themselves, and all we do by having separate bathrooms is perpetuate the idea that men will assault women in bathrooms.
So I guess now we need our own vigilantes to keep those other vigilantes in check. Should have purged the remnants of the Confederacy back in 1865, no amnesty for traitors.
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