Im sure OSU specifically is fine, they have like the 2nd or 3rd largest campus in the country, big 10 school with a ton of funding, multiple highly accredited programs, and many people go there just to say they went to “The” Ohio State Univesity
No, these are police snipers their job is to shoot anyone who actually succeeds at hurting cops. They aren’t the same tactical role as military snipers
But they have these at football games and other major events including political events and so on too? Why is this any different, especially when considering it’s related to the Middle East and considering what happens w/ suicide bombers?
These spotters are different from the police shootings in the Kent State incident, no?
So because the students are protesting about something happening in the Middle East, you jump straight to worrying about suicide bombers? Not all Arabs are ISIS my dude, your bias is showing
This has nothing to do with bias, and everything to do with prior incidents (9/11, namely… but also the '93 bombing, the 2009 fort hood shooting the 2013 Boston marthon bombing, the 2015 san bernardino attack and the 2016 orlando nightclub shooting)
Further, I’m not super thrilled about you accusing me of being a racist because I’m concerned about a prevalent concern/non-zero likelihood risk or threat. Don’t assume maliciousness where ignorance may suffice. Flies. Vinegar. Honey.
If your basis for ethical governance is splitting hairs about relative body count, stop, go back, you fucked up. But also: give them a minute. It’s the cops we’re talking about here. They might be a little slow, but they’ll get the job done eventually.
Emphasis “relative”. The US govt and agents thereof (read: police) murder and brutalize often enough, and even get quite upset when people get upset over their doing it. That’s why I say it’s splitting hairs.
Many police department don’t report the deaths of people due to their actions or in their custody to any sort of national database as well, so estimates are likely undercounting. Corruption is rampant in departments as well, there have been cases of people dying and being buried by police without informing the family or anyone else.
So it’s likely much worse than we realize. Many murders are unsolved, there are many missing people cases also unsolved. In 2020, there were dozens of people reported missing that were involved in protests that were never found.
Uh, okay. I see what you’re playing at here, yeah, Tianenman Square happened, but that doesn’t mean that the US is then free and clear. We have a similar spirit of authoritarianism with a strong national myth about how it’s okay for us because we’re the “good guys” (spoiler alert).
More to the point, we have a militarized police force that aggressively puts down any meaningful protest. Our police regularly kill, maim, and brutalize people for no other reason than to put them in their place. My point isn’t China good, my point is making fun of all the people who hand-wring about China and communism while we already live under a not-so-different dumbfuck authoritarianism ourselves.
I definitely agree, I’m all for ACAB. I was just making the express observation (prior to my comment being deleted by the owner) that, this is not one of those cases.
If we aren’t fair, reasonable, and dead honest on these points in our protests, they won’t be taken seriously. And when protests aren’t take seriously things get dangerous, and I don’t want to see legitimate protest against the police state turn into damnation or terrorism charges, more than they already are.
Thanks for being civil and having a conversation about this
Let’s try this again without the Tiananmen Square Massacre copy pasta, at the explicit request of “seahorse” the Midwest social owner:
The difference between the two is that there was no weapon here. You can’t even make out what’s in front of the dude in black but most everyone here took a Twitter post as fact.
The Tiananmen Square massacre, on the other hand, did happen and did kill people. That’s the difference here.
I responded to the comment with the copypasta. Anyway, the point isn’t China good, the point is making fun of all the people in the US that screech about Chinese authoritarianism like we haven’t been captured by our own stupid fucking brand of authoritarianism.
I definitely agree, I’m all for ACAB. I was just making the express observation (prior to my comment being deleted by the owner) that, this is not one of those cases.
If we aren’t fair, reasonable, and dead honest on these points in our protests, they won’t be taken seriously. And when protests aren’t take seriously things get dangerous, and I don’t want to see legitimate protest against the police state turn into damnation or terrorism charges, more than they already are.
Thanks for being civil and having a conversation about this
Edit: downvoting someone for asking to provide source for your claim. Guess we’re cool with making stuff up. To those interested: look into how Russia was caught with their Facebook farms setup in Africa to sow disinformation ahead of the 2016 election season.
I won’t feel bad for asking for legitimate source information.
Agreed, but I still want to know what the source is.
I’ve also come to learn about marksman which are basically cops setup at major events with lots of people to prevent suicide bombers
Now that’s a double edged sword, especially because of, well all that the police have been doing since, well the beginning it would seem. I can’t trust a cop to do a routine traffic stop without shooting someone, I certainly would be concerned about one with a sniper at a high-stress/high movement event like this.
I can definitely see this being real now, but I’m not sure if I agree with it or not - I agree that a terrorist attack at an event like this would be devastating and I wouldn’t want that to happen either, but I don’t trust that the police are being trained appropriately or being audited/actioned on appropriately.
Ultimately my shitty initial tone and attitude were what bit me in the ass in this thread, despite just trying to get confirmation on the information from an appropriate source, so I’m just going to leave well enough alone now.
Nothing conclusive I can see yet from AP etc, but it is a bit suspicious the universities and police are not responding/stonewalling requests for information from journalists, if they had no snipers how hard would it be to say there were no snipers?
Also a healthy skepticism isn’t afraid of questioning sources I wouldn’t apologize for it either, but it can also be a rhetorical tactic that sometimes is difficult to tell if it’s genuine or not. Not an excuse just an observation.
I appreciate your candor and civility, it’s much easier for us to talk and correct any miscommunications when we’re at the same level. Thank you.
I totally agree, the whole thing screams PR/scrambling to quench any flames, rather than to just come forth with the raw, uncensored/stretched truth. We deserve to have that from our government at the very fucking least.
Nixon invades Cambodia, campuses across the country erupt in protest, armed troops deployed to deal with the unrest on an Ohio campus, guns pointed at students to intimidate them into dispersing…hmmm, can’t remember what happened next…everything calmed down, I think, right?
God blessed the students with omniscient insight, so they reverted their concerns and joined the army to establish democracy all over the world. An eagle, sounding like a red-tailed hawk, was heard screeching in the distance.
Eagles these days just don’t sound like they used too, back in my day they had this powerful screech that would pierce through even a swelling orchestral track to a movie.
Then the woke mob came for Eagles and now they sound lame.
I want to go back to those good times, that I imagine in my head, those times are great because I can remember whatever bullshit fantasy I want as “history” and just throw a tantrum and scream at anyone who challenges me on it.
Red tailed hawks? What are those? Are they like an Owl or something? Since when did people give a fuck about birds? They are so boring.
Here’s the thing. You said a “jackdaw is a crow.” Is it in the same family? Yes. No one’s arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies crows, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls jackdaws crows. If you want to be “specific” like you said, then you shouldn’t either. They’re not the same thing. If you’re saying “crow family” you’re referring to the taxonomic grouping of Corvidae, which includes things from nutcrackers to blue jays to ravens. So your reasoning for calling a jackdaw a crow is because random people “call the black ones crows?” Let’s get grackles and blackbirds in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It’s not one or the other, that’s not how taxonomy works. They’re both. A jackdaw is a jackdaw and a member of the crow family. But that’s not what you said. You said a jackdaw is a crow, which is not true unless you’re okay with calling all members of the crow family crows, which means you’d call blue jays, ravens, and other birds crows, too. Which you said you don’t. It’s okay to just admit you’re wrong, you know?
Here’s the thing. You said a “jackdaw is a crow.” Is it in the same family? Yes. No one’s arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies crows, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls jackdaws crows.
Whatever schmuck, the thesis title of my double-PHD from Beige University (Rhode Island Ivy League) was “Crows And Jackdaws, A MetaAnalysis Of Corvidae Interchangeability Along Intersectional Metrics Of Culture, Science and Archival Preservation”.
National Guard units shot and killed four student protesters in Ohio at Kent State University in 1970, wounding nine others. I’ve read the police used excuses like they had intel there were communist agitators involved, funnily similar to what they say today.
Okay so they have spotting scopes and tripods for sure. Now they could have just brought those for the sake of gathering accurate info on protests I assume are 100-300 meters away to pick out details better (ie Is that person pointing a gun or a dslr camera with a long lens?)
A modern AR-15 (most patrol car rifles) with a proper zero, consistent ammuntion and in the hands of a capable person (it’s not hard it just takes regular practice) could easily be used effectively to engage man size targets with a guy on the spotting scope doing the target id I mentioned earlier to get the right guy.
With a basic bolt action precision rifle, even if it’s chambered in the same round, could be used even more effectively with target id capabilities of the spotting scope using the magnification of better rifle optics. I bet they have one on that second tripod.
And honestly I’d prefer that over 50ish dudes with rifles with their own set of mob mentality like they had at Kent back in the day.
Just because you can’t read Chinese doesn’t mean it was spam.
Industry standard tiananamen square copy pasta that gets Chinese propaganda pushers in trouble with Winnie The Pooh. You realize how this looks for you and this instance right?
Look, can we start this over? I don’t like how this played out and I too was getting bent out of shape for what was likely good-intentions.
I’d understand if you were still upset and needed some time yet, totally fine
Lemmy is supposed to be better than Reddit culture, and be more civilized, and I feel like this was a fail here. I’d like to try again and maybe we can have some civil discourse about this if you’re up for it
Maybe? I don’t know if that’s worth the time though. Even if no rifle exists up there they could bring one up whenever. I’m sure there is security footage though of them hauling supplies in.
TIL spotters like to use one normal sized spotting scope alongside another one that’s the size of a rifle with a cover on it. Doesn’t make sense to me but I’m no spotter.
The guy who posted that is pretty well known in this instance for being a reliable information source on events happening in Ohio. They’re not just a random user.
Should be treated like they are? Okay, so full outrage, comparisons to the Kent State massacre, and the administration facing reprisals and consequences for deploying snipers to intimidate, threaten, and potentially murder students.
We’re treating them like they’re snipers, Admin, you’re welcome.
Yeah, you’re putting snipers on a university aimed at the students. That’s not the behavior of a government that values personal freedoms like speech and assembly.
Free speech on college campuses means they have to pay bigots to speak and allow disruption from religious protests by non students, but students get riot cops and snipers for protesting genocide
If they should be treated like snipers, that means protesters should respond in kind:
Make smoke screens. Tires work best. Bicycle tire with gas will make thick black smoke making it hard for the spotter and sniper to see.
Force projection works both ways: make their advantages into disadvantages. Snipers are long range units, meaning they have to be away from what they are targeting. If you can create enough distractions they won’t be able to see the forest from the trees.
I dunno about the smoke. On top of probably seeming to be an escalation because you’d be burning stuff (I’d probably go with fog oil and a generator instead, only object is price, but, hey, tires can also get pretty expensive depending on where they’re sourced. Theater department might also have some stuff on em), but also a large amount of smoke might serve to obfuscate documentation and recording, which I would say is a pretty big priority. Keep a camera fixed on these snipers at all times, and you can tell when they’re firing and probably who’s been killed at what moment, and that’s maybe an important and large deterrent, compared to a smokescreen. I’d imagine if you were going with that and if it came to that, you’d just want to render the snipers ineffectual by other methods, which, you know, maybe your mind can wander about how you might accomplish that one, without me having to suggest a specific course of action there.
Nah man when there’s a terrorist threat or some kids are getting fesity we call up those smitty brothers down on farmdale ave. I’ve seen em hit smack in the middle of grandma’s can o beans from a mile and a half away in the rain – i swears it!
The police don’t just pull farm boys with a crack shot every time they have a sporting event. They are fucking cops. Not only cops, but specialty cops. SWAT cunts. My homie is one - went from infantry to ranger to police to swat. Yeah - he’s a cunt, too. ACAB.
But don’t worry guys! The first amendment guarantees a right to assemble. The police wouldn’t ever do anything to infringe on our rights! If they were to do it, I’m sure there’d be a really sick folk song written about it or something
On the evening of May 13, 1985, longstanding tensions between MOVE, a black liberation group, and the Philadelphia Police Department erupted horrifically. That night, the city of Philadelphia dropped a satchel bomb, a demolition device typically used in combat, laced with Tovex and C-4 explosives on the MOVE organization, who were living in a West Philadelphia rowhome known to be occupied by men, women, and children. It went up in unextinguished flames. Eleven people were killed, including five children and the founder of the organization. Sixty-one homes were destroyed, and more than 250 citizens were left homeless.
Folks familiar with this incident had a remarkably different take on the Waco siege and subsequent fire that resulted when the FBI surrounded David Koresh’s church compound. Same with the Ruby Ridge US Marshal slaying of a white nationalist’s wife and son, during an investigation into gun sales.
Then there’s the assassination of Fred Hampton and Malcolm X, the police storming of the Occupy Wall Street camps in New York, the COINTELPRO operations that targeted anti-war movements during the Bush Administration, the incredibly violence by police in Ferguson and Baltimore during the BLM marches, police kidnappings in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and LA during the George Floyd protests.
I got to personally witness the mass arrest of protesters in Houston, after they were surrounded and kettled in Discovery Green Park.
America is a cursed land. Something something maybe don’t build your country on an ancient indian burial ground something something.
The popular take was that the FBI did nothing wrong and Koresh simply had to be stopped at all costs. The more /r/unpopularopinion take was that Janet Reno had something to prove, that the FBI recklessly flooded the compound with flammable gas, and that these deaths were entirely preventable had Bob Ricks not wanted to rush the surrender.
Ruby Ridge was a similar story. Initially, news media portrayed the Weavers as insurrectionists intent on personally waging war on the entire federal government. The US Marshals were given the initial benefit of the doubt, despite the incident turning hot when a marshal shot the family dog and then the Weaver’s 14-year-old boy who was working it.
Oh. I thought that over in the USA the default position was that the feds were in the wrong. Not a day goes by without conservatives talking about how the feds murder dogs.
People love to hate it but the second amendment is also a thing. Now don’t get me wong I don’t want this to happen ever to anyone…but there was a time when strikers would shoot and be shot at on the reg.
LOL they really did successfully rewrite the history on that one. The troops fought WITH the companies, not against them. The only reason they backed off is because they were losing. Had they continued, the legitimacy of the regime would have been brought into question. Not only because they were literally going to war with its own citizens, but also that those citizens were absolutely kicking their fucking asses.
We’re talking about an empire that could barely hold their own when fighting against a nonviolent people with primitive technology, and then went on to lose a war against fucking farmers in Vietnam. The odds couldn’t be further in their favor and yet they keep collecting Ls. If people collectively realized just how much of a complete joke these fascist clowns are, they would run away pissing themselves crying. God only knows what would happen if a nation actually engaged them in war on their soil. They’re not even at war and the entire place is already crumbling.
So not justifying this response, but they have snipers out for EVERY football game. I think it is standard practice for large gatherings. You can make your own opinions on this, but this isn’t a unique thing.
Europe has snipers at football stadiums too. One of the first, mainstream, acknowledgements of them was when a protestor parachuted onto the field during the Germany-France Euro match in 2020. When people got mad they said it was common practice to have snipers at most events of this size.
For a protest on a university campus? I mean, the US already has a great history with innocent students being murdered for speaking out, so… Yeah, not unusual for the US.
Yeah, cuz thrice-weekly mass shootings are a US thing. I’m not getting into a chicken-and-egg circkejerk with anyone about which came first, but as long as “we the people” are gonna keep shooting large gatherings of our fellow citizens…especially if we think they disagree with us, then any controversial or highly public event is gonna be crawling with armed police…including snipers.
Honestly, I’d have snipers at any large gathering. Mass shootings/stabbings/drivings/bombings have recently taken place in Europe, Russia, and other parts of the world. It’s good to have security when there are tens or hundreds of thousands of people gathered in a place (eg, the Olympics, mega concerts, wtc)
Apparently the issue is people asked the University if there were snipers, at 8:15 pm they replied there weren’t, and later said they deployed them at 10 pm.
More reasonable than what it looked like but still kinda crazy, at least from my outside perspective.
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