When you receive my replies to the #PHP internals mailing list, do they look empty to you? I just noticed that my messages on both news.php.net and externals.io appear empty.
@derickr@ramsey That's neither helpful nor constructive, Derick. The mail clients you tend to prefer are frankly an anachronism today, not the norm. Don't gatekeep folks who are using different clients, particularly ones that are part of their OS or on mobile, please.
@mwop@ramsey Gmail ignors both Internet standards, long standing etiquette (don't top post), and demands all kinds of things from MTAs that they made up. So yes, Gmail is a terrible email client.
@derickr@mwop I’m not arguing the quality of the client. I don’t like the state of things, either, but we’ve lost. It’s better to meet others where they are than to expect them to meet us where we want them to be. That just makes others mad at us and leads them to feel unwelcome.
@ramsey@derickr@mwop I'm not entirely disagreeing, but that is exactly the attitude Apple counts on when they deliberately break things in order to undermine competitors. Like, Android MMS texting. Which they're getting sued for by the DoJ.
We really do need to care about following standards, and education, because malicious non-compliance is a common business strategy.
@Crell@ramsey@derickr@mwop Helpful to remember that Android abandoned the open messaging platform that they originally shipped in favor of chasing the Apple model, and only went back to pushing an open standard when their attempts at a closed system repeatedly failed. There are no heroes.
@Crell@nicksloan@derickr@mwop While the web standards community leaned hard on browsers to ensure they produced standards-compliant rendering engines, there was no such community that did the same for email standards.
Just because the big 5 try to keep one within their walled garden and provide either a web-based interface or one that contains their very own webbrowser doesn't mean there aren't others.
And there are well established rules regardimg electronic communication, in parts older than the companies we are talking about, that are almost impossible to maintain with these clients...
@ramsey they come to me just fine. But sometimes I see signed messages from other folks where I need to "view source" in Thunderbird otherwise all I see is their signature
@heiglandreas I’ve worked on news-web before, so I can look there, but anything I fix there to render the body of the message probably won’t affect externals.io.
@heiglandreas I sent these messages from the Mail app on iOS, and I can’t figure out how to set it to send plain text only. I guess this means I’ll have to stop sending messages from my phone and send them only when I have my laptop handy.
@heiglandreas I don’t know. I’ve never noticed this before. I wonder how long this has been going on or how many others have been sending mail from their phones that doesn’t have plain text attached to them.
@heiglandreas@ramsey LOL... been seeing that so often... especially with newsletters/mailing lists.
Apparently people use "Create new from" a lot and only update the HTML. When you receive the email and view it in plain text, the content doesn't match and often is about something completely different...
Case in point: all the emails from #DPC24... (the text version is the original announcement that they're back in person and that the CfP is open,)
@ramsey I've stopped responding on my phone due to the borked settings and faulty ways of responding. I rather use my propper mail-client on the laptop 😁
@ramsey I just checked and the possibility to convert an email to plain text seems to no longer exist in Apples Mail-CLient. Or at least I didn't find it where it was some years ago....
Perhaps anyone else has some idea on how to set the iOS Mail-client to sends plain text emails...
@heiglandreas The only time anyone in the world refers to using a “proper” mail client is when they’re trying to send mail to a PHP mailing list. So, maybe the problem isn’t with the mail client. 😉
@ramsey I do that regularily when sending or answering ANY email.
As the PHP Mailinglist uses features that were established in the beginning days of email but that Outlook at one point ignored and therefore all "business email" now is actually working against those features that is for a lot of people the only case where this surfaces...
@derickr@heiglandreas My point is that any popular email client in the modern day is a proper email client. I shouldn’t have to change from a commonly used mail client iOS Mail to send an email to a mailing list.
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