If Trump wanted to get rid of voting, why didn’t he do so last time? How about we just get better security at the capitol, and eliminate whatever loophole he was trying to use in the insurrection?
Lol! Tell me you think Trump would have handled Isreal differently!
He would have. He would have sent twice the funds! Fucking idiots just running around free out here. Don’t you remember when Trump unilaterally decide Isreal would be the capital.
That’s whats the coup attempt was for, as well as the attempts to override or stop polls from counting the votes across the country. Just because he failed this time doesn’t mean it won’t happen again. Hitler was democratically elected after becoming famous for the book he wrote in jail after being arrested during the Nazi’s first failed coup attempt, Mein Kampf. He then consolidated political power into a new position with the support of party members who were elected to key positions, and he then appointed himself to that new position. Same as what has happened in many other countries. A few crazies in the right seats. The Nazi party only made up 13% of the German population at its height. That’s all it takes.
Never voting again sounds good to me, since that way people would realize how pointless it is. Unfortunately neither option will lead to that outcome and people will pat themselves on the back after voting for the Capitalist party.
Oh that sounds terrible. So we should vote for a party who doesn’t agree with, doesn’t support, and doesn’t call those people friends while they hangout at the same fund raising parties right?
Fortunately The Hand Maiden’s tale is Tom Clancy for liberals and also not real. So maybe come back to reality and look at material conditions, like say our ever growing homeless population, and the fact that we have more vacant houses then homeless people. Ask yourself who benefits from that, and then ask yourself why you are voting for those people and telling others to vote for those people.
Are you saying there are no differences at all between which party is in power? That people’s loves aren’t objectively better under one party than another?
Not just Biden. Plus the monarchy won’t actually last that long so we can finally have some reform. But really I don’t know where you are getting this idea of a monarchy being instituted anyway. That’s weird liberal Tom Clancy bullshit.
Ah yes, not participating. The way to change the system is to not participate. All we have to do is let the republicans win, so they can make being gay illegal, abolish no-fault divorce, and re-introduce christian indoctrination in the classroom. Then everyone will finally realize it’s all stupid and they’ll release all the gay criminals and atheist teachers from jail and say “Sorry! Thanks for not voting, now we realize both parties were the problem!”
There are only two parties that have a mathematical chance of winning. You can throw your vote away on a third party, hoping to get them 20x their highest ever turn-out in the hopes that they get more money if you want. But know that what you are actually doing is indistinguishable from simply not voting. Work on getting ranked-choice voting in your state first, then vote your conscience. Voting third party now just guarantees another 4+ years of Trump.
No, it’ll also be the fault of idiots like you who think you get the privilege of voting for someone you really like instead of just getting to pick the least bad option. You have the chance to vote to keep trans people safe for another 4 years, to keep abortion legal on the federal level for the next four years, etc. You choosing not to do that in the desperate bid to feel like your hands are clean will directly result in harm to those around you. Your hands will be dirty either way.
Isn’t the “privilege of voting for someone you like” called “your right to vote”?
You think my right to vote is a privilege?
But sure, according to this meme voting democrat is the only way to protect voting rights which don’t exist and are a privilege
I won’t be moralistically scolded into voting for the moderate wing of fascism.
Right, you’ll instead be convinced to feel morally superior while supporting (by not voting against) the non-moderate wing of fascism. Won’t you just feel so clean and superior while Trump harms the people you want to protect?
It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote for someone who aligns with all your values. You vote for the person who has the best chance of winning who aligns most closely with your values. You vote for the person who has the best chance of stopping the fascist from winning.You have to be strategic with your vote as long as our system is FPTP. Or you can tacitly support the fascists while claiming to be morally superior by not voting.
“It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote”
There it is again
“You vote for the person who has the best chance of stopping the fascist from winning.”
But you are a fascist. You don’t support my right to vote. You support Joe Biden, who is continuing to build the wall, has not stopped putting kids in cages in concentration camps, is funding a genocide in Gaza, sat idly by while abortion rights got overturned instead of codifying Roe, and on and on and on. Every metric libs used to call Trump a fascist applies to Joe Biden. It’s so boring.
“while supporting (by not voting against)”
Hang on, if I don’t vote Trump that means I’m not voting against Biden. By your logic that means I am effectively supporting Joe Biden. So we’re good then, I did what you want. Lmao, it never gets old how moronic democrats are. Endless free entertainment.
“It’s privileged to think that you have an inherent right to vote” for someone who aligns with all your values
It might be helpful for you to read the entire sentence instead of just cutting it off halfway through to make it sound like a different sentence. You don’t have the right to a candidate that agrees with you on everything, or even most things. You have the right to vote for the person of the available options that would do the most good and least harm for the country.
But you are a fascist. You don’t support my right to vote.
See, I’d you had finished reading that sentence earlier you would have understood. I’m gonna assume you haven’t yet got full brain-damage and recognize that the Democrats, while not as good as they should be, are better in every measurable way than the modern Republicans, which are full-blown fascists. Save me the drivel about “scratch a liberal” and think for a moment about the actual differences. Is Biden going to sign a federal abortion ban or a ban on trans health care? Is Trump going to pass anything to help with climate change?
You can plug your ears and scream “but both sides are exactly the same!” As much as you like, reality shows that’s not the case. Lives, especially of minorities, are measurably better under Democratic leadership than Republican leadership.
You support Joe Biden, who is continuing to build the wall, has not stopped putting kids in cages in concentration camps, is funding a genocide in Gaza, sat idly by while abortion rights got overturned instead of codifying Roe, and on and on and on. Every metric libs used to call Trump a fascist applies to Joe Biden. It’s so boring.
I support voting for Biden if the options on the table are Biden or Trump. I don’t support all or most of what Biden has done, but it would take an idiot to think Trump would do any of it better than Biden.
Biden built a small section of wall after he was forced to by the previous administration. He has not approved or requested any additional funds to build any additional wall not already ear-marked by Trump.
He has stopped separating kids from their parents or families at the border with no documentation as the previous administration did. It’s now only kids who cross the border without a parent or guardian. We could do better, but it is an improvement over the intentional damage done by Trump.
His support for Israel sucks, but are you somehow under the impression Trump would do better? The guy who moved the embassy to Jerusalem? The guys who put his son-in-law in charge of a peace proposal which would have given total control of Palestine to Israel in perpetuity?
What exactly did you want Biden to do when Roe was overturned? Use the nonexistent margin in the Senate or the house controlled by Republicans to change the court or force through a federal law? Unfortunately, because idiots like you didn’t vote for the Dems in 2016 and allowed Trump to win, he got to set all the pieces in motion to overturn Roe. If idiots like you had voted against Trump we would not be in this situation.
Fascism: a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Tell me how exactly Biden does any of those things, especially any of them more than Trump. Obviously I’d prefer someone better than Biden but that isn’t the world we live in.
Hang on, if I don’t vote Trump that means I’m not voting against Biden. By your logic that means I am effectively supporting Joe Biden. So we’re good then, I did what you want. Lmao, it never gets old how moronic democrats are. Endless free entertainment.
This is important, before you continue reading I need you to check that your carbon monoxide alarms are working in your house.
It’s really simple, you either vote against the Republicans by voting for the Democrats and as a result things are less bad, or you do something else (vote third party, don’t vote) and allow things to get worse.
You have the option to help make things less bad for you and those around you, but instead you feel like you can remain morally superior by throwing your vote away and pretending like you didn’t have a hand in allowing the bad to happen. You do and you did. Not voting is still a choice you make, and you’ll have to live with the consequences of. The fact of the matter is your selfish desire to feel superior will help the Republicans bring about full fascism, but it’ll be worth it so you can tell yourself you’re above it all, right? You are the guy standing at the switch of the trolley problem going, “Well at least I didn’t pull the switch and kill those two people” while the train runs over 10.
It’s literally a mathematical certainty. Every single Democrat would have to vote against Joe Biden for a third party, or else the vote would be split, and we’d guarantee a Trump win.
I don’t know, I’m sure there’s plenty of people on the right that don’t like either candidate, and would probably vote for 3rd party if people would stop this nonsense that there are only 2 parties.
Any third-party run that pulls from both parties is gonna end up being an “enlightened centrist” group like No Labels and we’ll get more of the exact same.
The majority of people do not hold extreme left or extreme right views. While the majority of democratic and republican candidatesaree trying to match up to the extremes of their parties, and you get the same results and nothing done. Why not have common sense take a shot at running things?
Why do I have vote for the next gen Dem in 2028? Is this post implying Trump will continue running until his death? That the GOP will be unable to shelve his candidacy after another loss–and I have to imagine increasing incoherency?
They’re pointing out that Trump will invoke the “I am the senate” option if he’s voted in. For context on the rest of the meme, see the Wikipedia entry for the 2016 presidential election.
I looked over the wiki page and still don’t understand why I have to vote next gen Dem in 2028. I understand Trump’s authoritarian proclivities. Why must I assume the GOP is gonna offer up Trump again? Maybe they will nominate a non-batshit candidate?
Yeah the maker of the slogan probably didn’t realize it implies choosing between a one party system and a no party system. Messaging isn’t their strong suit.
The picture assumes that you’re a left-leaning voter who begrudgingly votes for whatever moderate conservative the Democrats roll out as their candidate because while he doesn’t generally support any of the things you support, at least he doesn’t oppose them like the Republican candidate.
To throw my own opinion into this, I think the Republican party has passed a tipping point. I think your second question is right on the money. If not Trump, then some other crazed bigot. I think moving forward, you’ll have conservatives and Republicans, and they won’t be the same thing.
They’ve been moving progressively further towards the extremist end of the spectrum since I started paying attention in middle school (right after 9/11), and according to older folk I’ve talked to over the years, it’s been going on far longer than that, even before Nixon and Reagan. Democrats today hold the same positions on things that Republicans held during the 90s, and are called socialists and communists for it. Democrats have also been quietly funding extremist candidates for years now so that they can get an easy win against them by simply being the lesser evil. On top of that, Republicans have created a core group of zealots who care little for the policies that their candidate supports, so long as they have that R next to their name on the ballot. The kind of people like my boss when I was a teenager who would answer the question of who he was voting for with “I’m a Republican, I vote for the nominee” and an incredulous look like it was stupidest question in the world, exactly like my grandfather would answer my dad when he was younger, in the 60s and 70s. I’ve seen this backfire on Republicans when left-leaning candidates have gotten onto ballots under the Republican party, like a trans woman in New Hampshire or Vermont who ran for county sheriff on a policy of defunding the police, and was overwhelmingly elected by the pro-police conservative populace because she had run as the Republican candidate and none of them bothered to actually look at what her stance was, only if the D or the R was next to her name. I think this core group has backfired on the Republicans nationally, because they’ve been co-opted by Trump, who has opened the door for all the bigots to openly spread their hate and give these people a target to blame for the miseries inflicted upon them by the policies of the same people that they voted for. They tell them that it’s the minorities fault, and these people gobble it up.
The mask is off and open bigotry is the new face of the Republican party. There’s always been undercurrents of it, but it’s mostly been kept in line to some extent by the more moderate side of the party. Now that side of the party is labelled as being just as “woke” and full of socialists/communists as the Democrats supposedly are, and it’s the bigots like Trump and DeSantis running the show. So while the Republicans could field an actually sane candidate at any time, I don’t think it’s likely as the sane are being purged from the ranks at an alarming pace.
The people who plug their ears at the notion of going 3rd party are the same dorks who got “blindsided” when Trump won in 2016.
If the Dems run Biden, I genuinely think it will be Trump. I do not want it to be Trump.
Enough of the older lemmy crowd seem to ignore the fact that the zooms have like 8-9(?) years of eligible voters who are all decently pissed about the middle east. We keep seeing record turnouts amongst the youth each/every year. So like…I just hate to see that most of the responses were of the “who tf cares what they do? they won’t vote either way” is lame as shit.
If you genuinely all think this is gunna be a slam dunk for Biden, why not run a different/younger candidate? If anybody can beat Trump, why Biden specifically? I’m only 3rd party if it’s Biden again, not a threat. I just can’t reasonably vote for him or Trump. I won’t do it.
Tell Joe to pass on the torch to somebody w/ an active pulse and I’ll take the DNC a bit more seriously… Obviously pushing to the right isn’t fucking working because the other dorks are voting R regardless.
Give me a real candidate. Anybody under the age 59 (fuck you Kamala) and you’ve got my vote.
I’m only 3rd party if it’s Biden again, not a threat. I just can’t reasonably vote for him or Trump. I won’t do it.
In that case, why bother voting at all? What does it achieve?
You’re right. I don’t care if people who won’t vote for a candidate who has a chance of winning don’t vote. Because it has exactly the same effect either way.
Man the Democratic Party this election cycle has just been working overtime to invite the conversational wedge between ‘saving american democracy from fascism’ and ‘voting against Trump.’
I guess that’s what the donor class wants this time: “Do nothing but vote.”
At first. He campaigned as a progressive the first time, but they soon taught him how to govern like a Clintonesque neoliberal 90%+ of the time while constantly promoting the (at the very most) 10% of what he did as president that benefitted regular people more than the already rich and powerful, their corporations and their hedge funds.
That most political action happens outside of voting for president. Ofc having a friendly presidency helps a lot for all the other political action, and rn its a choice between an Establishment Dem and a fascist, but having a friendly presidency alone does little for real change.
<span style="color:#323232;"> Biden steps down and that Newsome guy runs as a Democrat.
</span>
Biden runs for re-election against Trump and there will be a third candidate to split the vote someway.
Newsome actually wins the Republican nomination and changes the Republican party, like a lot.
DeSantis pulls a miracle and wins the Republican nomination and the election becomes a four way with Biden, Trump, DeSantis, and someone else (probably Newsome).
The RNC and DNC will only back Trump and Biden respectively. One of those two barring unfortunate circumstances will be elected because our voting systems punishes split votes and the public knows this.
Slightly OT, but this is also why we absolutely need ranked voting ASAP. How much better would a candidate like Sanders do if people knew that voting for him as first choice and Biden as second was possible?
Here’s an interesting anecdote. The people of Shelby County, TN elected to enact ranked choice voting in the county (it was a ballot option 2 elections ago). It hasn’t been signed into law yet.
So at least in this case, I’d say the problem isn’t people not voting, it’s nefarious agents succeeding in subverting the feeble democratic processes in this country to act against the people’s interest.
Well he lost the primaries, which is when you vote for the candidate you really want. But he lost the primaries because the DNC aired a never ending stream of bullshit telling the people it was impossible for Sanders to win, and then pointing to the current super delegate polls as evidence. Idk why people are terrified of voting for a losing candidate in the primaries though. Who gives a fuck if your vote loses in the primaries? You should vote for the candidate you want, not the one you think is going to win. It’s not a casino bet.
The closed primary system is just so fucked in general, these are private organizations that can do whatever they want, the DNC and the RNC.
I still don’t like Debbie Wasserman Schultz. She was literally marched out of the DNC office because of the bias she showed towards Hillary Clinton in leaked emails. Then she gets hired by the Clinton campaign!
Decades ago I changed my voter registration just because I was tired of not being able to vote in the primaries. I think they’ve changed that since then, but I don’t know, since it doesn’t impact me anymore.
The thing is, because the final vote for president isn’t ranked choice, the spoiler effect is also spoiling the primary. People will vote for the candidate they think can will at the national level, else Trump might win.
If you had ranked choice voting at the actual election, only then would the spoiler effect be fixed.
The left-ish party did the exact same thing to Teddy Roosevelt in 1916. They chose to fall on their sword and get a slavery denier in office rather than let the somewhat progressive (for the time) Roosevelt be their candidate (at the time, Roosevelt was allowed to run for a 3rd term). Liberals do not care about making things better, they care about protecting the status quo. Roosevelt would have won if not for liberal interference via their backing of Taft, just like Bernie would have.
I remember learning from my college history professor that when Upton Sinclair ran for governor of California, the Democrats teamed up with the Republicans to ensure he did not win. They would rather lose than let a socialist run the state. Even with their meddling he very nearly won the election with 37% of the votes. That is a lesson the American people should really take to heart. The established parties have more in common with each other than they do with their constituency.
Or, you could support candidates that support racked choice voting (who are mostly liberals). That sort of thing happens locally and at the state level.
Ranked choice isn’t that much better. It is better, but very slightly. We need to implement STAR, which is vastly better even at its worst. Essentially, it’s just a 0-5 vote for candidates, and any empty is a 0. It allows you to rank some at the same and then some as “better than nothing” leading to a well rounded choice that most people approve of.
As a Canadian looking from the outside in, it really does seem to be trending in that direction… any further Republican wins will mean the end of democracy, with America sliding into a ChristoFascist Autocracy.
I fear for my American neighbours, but we have similar problems up here; we just happen to be a decade or so behind you folk.
Also Canadian. We are certainly on the same path. It feels like everyone around our part of the country is a “fuck Trudeau” type that just clearly wants the 1950’s to return and women where they should be. As a very liberal but not so political person it’s kinda scary.
If you remember when Trudeau was first elected, they called him the Selfie King or some idiotic shit like that. Like, the fact that he took photos with young people is somehow a reason to hate him. The propaganda and astroturfing has been ongoing for 8 years. It’s called “foreign interference”.
It actually potentially does. I’d suggest looking into Project 2025. If you’re not familiar with it, it’s a political battle plan being put forward by a bunch of hard-right think tanks with substantial connections which would effectively establish a theocracy in the US. My understanding is that part of the plan hinges on the president basically removing anyone who can stop him and replace them with sycophants (which they’re currently populating a list of). The idea is that if they’re able to remove enough people, they can do whatever they want. They don’t need a majority in the supreme court or house of representatives because they can just ignore them; the sycophants will follow whatever orders they’re given regardless of what the house or court says.
To put it another way, they’ve realized the house and scotus only have power if that power is respected; if they remove anyone in-between the president and the other branches who’d say “no” and replace them with yes-men, then there’s no one to stop the president from doing whatever he wants. That said, I’d be willing to bet the moment the president says “no” to the scotus is the moment they’ll make a show of how much power they truly have, but it’ll get really bloody if that happens.
You know Lincoln told the supreme court to fuck off right? Was he “dictator” was it the end of democracy? Were people like you reading bathroom scrawling and screeching about project 1862?
There was also a civil war under Lincoln. Additionally, last time I checked Lincoln also wasn’t trying to overthrow the entire government and replace it with a theocracy. He was trying to abolish slavery. Reducing the country’s authoritarianism is kinda the opposite of what Trump & Co. are trying to achieve.
That is such a poor comparison that I’m seriously wondering if you’re trolling. If so, 4/10, you got me respond but your comparison is so poor that it left me questioning whether or not it was genuine.
Just like it didn’t last time because we managed to avert the attempt? You’re right, let’s give the same people another go, I’m sure they’ve given up on that idea by now.
Avert it how, by voting him out? Which he followed by stepping down?
People say his fighting the results in courts are proof of him trying to overthrow, but it’s not, it’s proof that he used the system correctly, in the legal ways he could. He may still claim to have won, but his actions are not that of a dictator attempting to overthrow democracy.
That being said, it’s still not clear who the republican nominee will end up being.
No. Did you know they wanted to send international observers for the last election because of worries that the US no longer adheres to democratic process? They were turned away, of course.
You know, like in third world nations and dictatorships.
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