foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

ugh. searching "how do I do xdotool type stuff with wayland" and one of the first results is "No, such features were explicitly excluded from the Wayland design for security reasons."

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

everyone who thinks "I know, I'll make computers not automatable, that'll make them more secure!" has fundamentally misunderstood what computers are for

resuna,
@resuna@ohai.social avatar

@foone

That's Apple's end-game. :(

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

the most secure computer is one that's not turing complete

forestpines,
@forestpines@hachyderm.io avatar

@foone what about if it's Foone complete

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

@forestpines then it's not very secure at all. I have a lot of screwdrivers and soldering irons

scottmichaud,
@scottmichaud@mastodon.gamedev.place avatar

@foone The most secure computer is anything that is off.

WPalant,

@scottmichaud @foone Hard off please, physically disconnected from power. And battery removed. Yes, maybe that CMOS battery as well…

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
there is one and only one way to reliably script keyboard/mouse input:

a USB microcontroller.

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

there are no reliably working software solutions. You might think you know one, but unless it involves "I built my own kernel with a completely different input subsystem", it probably has some caveats.

RandomDamage,

@foone you can do it under Linux, even going so far as to create a kernel module that interacts with the USB stack at various points, but under Windows that would be more of a task

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

and unfortunately on windows that option isn't available, so USB stick is the only one

mxk,
@mxk@hachyderm.io avatar

@foone arguably, on Windows AutoHotkey works pretty well (despite being a terrible programming language)

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

@mxk nope!
that's actually why I developed the USB microcontroller that I use regularly.
AHK (and the APIs it calls, for that matter) cannot consistently cross 32/64bit, user accounts, and directx/win32

jernej__s,

@foone @mxk For user accounts, a signed uiAccess="true" binary running from Program Files should work. No idea about DirectX.

mxk,
@mxk@hachyderm.io avatar

@foone 😂 - I see, for me so far it worked better than anything available on Linux for this type of automation.

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

and I say all this knowing it's only a matter of time before some big company gets their c-suite staff hacked through a mechanical keyboard with an insecure programmable MCU, and some fucker invents "secure input devices", where USB devices get cryptographically signed so that "not just anyone" can make one

ComradeGibbon,

@foone That's been my thought for security for the last ten years. The input device signs the mouse clicks and key presses. The idea being they can fully pwn your computer and they still can't impersonate you.

flameeyes,
@flameeyes@mastodon.social avatar

@foone isn't that basically what Cyberduck is, and where we got "badUSB" from?

Btw, I guess you would also appreciate if https://flameeyes.blog/2017/06/19/free-idea-a-qemu-facedancer-fuzzer/?mtm_campaign=social&mtm_kwd=mastodon existed.

Rairii,
@Rairii@haqueers.com avatar

@foone NGSCB tried that already, it didn't work out

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

at which point I'm buying a logitech keyboard and a bunch of solenoids and building a very loud automatable keyboard

engineerjulia,
@engineerjulia@mastodon.social avatar

@foone everything returns to teletypewriter

hackguy,

@foone "Latest in secure input device technology: A keyboard, but each key is a fingerprint scanner. You have to register each key separately to a specific finger. You cannot press one key with two different fingers. Also, the next Google Chrome version will require this keyboard for typing input, because fuck you."

StompyRobot,
@StompyRobot@mastodon.gamedev.place avatar

@foone why wait?

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

@StompyRobot I'm broke, that's why. I did buy a "keyboard automation device" from aliexpress that is just a single solenoid, though. very amusing device

1000millimeter,
@1000millimeter@chaos.social avatar

@foone @StompyRobot Please share a picture

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

@1000millimeter @StompyRobot I don't have a picture of mine on hand, but it's one of these:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801577434605.html

HoustonDog,
@HoustonDog@mastodon.world avatar

@foone

or low tech hacking of air-gapped PCs because of their keyboards.

c0dec0dec0de,
@c0dec0dec0de@hachyderm.io avatar

@foone I’m honestly surprised that this isn’t already a thing. Computers on closed, government networks physically block unused USB ports and impose stringent controls on what device drivers are loaded. It seems like something already in the works.

RyunoKi,
@RyunoKi@layer8.space avatar

@foone PS/2?

Ah, dangit. Close.

fuchsiii,
@fuchsiii@oxytodon.com avatar

@foone fair. But far from the most convenient.

kkarhan,
@kkarhan@mstdn.social avatar

@fuchsiii @foone but works... Points at the @Raspberry_Pi with on it

hakirsch,
@hakirsch@furries.club avatar

@foone see also "we'll stop piracy by making it so you can't copy something" while you're using a device whose literal core CPU instruction set and hardware design is "to copy data from a to b”

samgai,
@samgai@vocalounge.cafe avatar

@foone I like how this also applies to CAPTCHA.

pwalck,
@pwalck@camp.smolnet.org avatar

@foone I just did that exact search, for the N-th time, thinking that "surely there must be better we workarounds by now"...

Do you know of any super slim USB microcontrollers, sort of like those tiny radio things?

foone,
@foone@digipres.club avatar

@pwalck digispark is the smallest I know of

leo,
@leo@60228.dev avatar

@foone this is gnome's fault, wlroots and kde both support it

chocobo13,
@chocobo13@mastodon.social avatar

@foone
ydotool, IIRC

keen456,

@foone So, a quick check of the arewewaylandyet.com site shows wtype & ydotool as replacements for xdotool. Less clear if they will actually meet your needs.

fishidwardrobe,
@fishidwardrobe@mastodon.me.uk avatar

@foone Not on Weyland yet. Not looking forward to it…

henryk,
@henryk@chaos.social avatar

@foone That just sounds like a stunt invitation. "Ok, so, I'll just install a loopback virtual USB and then run a user space HID tool to inject input events …"

ankitpati,
@ankitpati@mastodon.social avatar

@foone GSConnect seems to handle it just fine.

The APIs exist. The tool does not¹.

¹ Actually, as others have pointed out, some xdotool functionality is provided by other tools, but not all.

4censord,
@4censord@unfug.social avatar

@foone the tool is either wdotool or ydotool, depending on whether you have a wlroots compositor or not

Kishi,
@Kishi@meow.social avatar

@foone
xorg life

Nekoplanet,
@Nekoplanet@paquita.masto.host avatar

@foone ie: using VNC tools that are not expressely included in the window manager.

ar,
@ar@is-a.cat avatar

@foone you probably came across it, but there is "ydotool".

Sunseille,
@Sunseille@shelter.moe avatar

@foone i feel this toot a lot.

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