ericsedge, 5 months ago

@i0null this should be built into every system. From Space: 1999

realn2s, 5 months ago

@i0null
Do you have a source for this?
I tried tracking it down but couldn't find a plausible source for this slide

joriki, 5 months ago

@i0null @trendytoots

"That's why at Torment Nexus all decisions affecting people's lives are made at the retail level, closest to the customer."

richardrathe, 5 months ago

@i0null

And most (neural network style) "#AI" or #LLM systems cannot even tell you WHY they produced the result they give. It's all in the training data. Huge "garbage in, garbage out" risks/biases!

#GIGO #Bias #Risk #Computers

driusan, 5 months ago

@i0null the problem with this slide is it seems to imply that human management can be held accountable.

i0null, 5 months ago

@driusan it doesn’t explicitly state the corollary, but even devoid of justice the alternative does at least carry a chain of responsibility.

dogzilla, 5 months ago

@i0null @mastodonmigration Counterpoint: human managers aren’t really held responsible for their decisions either, so not convinced that’s a valid blocker anymore

i0null, 5 months ago

@dogzilla @mastodonmigration if one substitutes the word ‘computer’ with ‘system’ or a ‘collection of prescribed rules’ then semantically the point still applies.

dalias, 5 months ago

@i0null A BILLIONAIRE CAN NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THEREFORE A BILLIONAIRE MUST NEVER MAKE A MANAGEMENT DECISION.

i0null, 5 months ago

@dalias based

xs4me2, 5 months ago

@i0null

Let us keep that in mind…

publixpace, 5 months ago

@i0null Tell that to Mr. #fullselfdriving 😀

i0null, 5 months ago

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publixpace, 5 months ago

@i0null You want self driving cyclists and pedestrians? Interesting conception of public space.

i0null, 5 months ago

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publixpace, 5 months ago

@i0null It could be political too, don't you think? Or should the administration reign over public space without political control?

i0null, 5 months ago (edited 5 months ago)

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publixpace, 5 months ago

@i0null If so, the the way different users share the roads or public space in general is primarily political, wouldn't you agree?

Kencf618033, 5 months ago

@i0null If everything were self-driving at least we'd know the thread model. It would be like prison sex—you'd know you won't like it, and you'd know you'd be getting a lot of it.

@publixpace

sidereal, 5 months ago

@i0null @publixpace IDK it kinda seems like all the existing self driving cars are super dangerous. Like, way more dangerous than human drivers. And, in theme with this thread, they can’t be held accountable when they run people over.

glyph, 5 months ago

@i0null please include sourcing if you can. Unfortunately it’s a little vague in this case, as the original was destroyed in a flood: https://twitter.com/bumblebike/status/1468346709994582020

i0null, 5 months ago (edited 5 months ago)

@glyph surely the source was the original slide?

glyph, 5 months ago

@i0null the source would be “twitter user bumblebike in 2017”. We only know this slide exists because he shared the picture, and we only think it’s an IBM presentation slide because of his claim.

berkes, 5 months ago

@i0null I've spent way too long pondering this quote lately.

I think the problem sits in the premise. Is it true that "a computer can never be held accountable"?
And in that, what is "a computer", is it just the physical metal and silicium, the entire product, the entity renting it out, the entity using it, or owning it?
And is it truly "never"? As in: is this something dictated by fysics or the Order of Things, or can this change?

Like I said. Way too long.

i0null, 5 months ago

@berkes I sympathise with the epistemological uncertainty.

aiefel, 5 months ago (edited 5 months ago)

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VoquiLeibbrandt, 5 months ago

@aiefel @berkes @i0null The Creator does not recognize the Hague treaties.. end of story :)

cktodon, 5 months ago

@aiefel @berkes @i0null
And also be careful on pointing to ' creator' instead of 'user'.
Can't blame on car's creator when someone (a driver) kill other with a car.
Can't blame on IA's creator (or whatever 'thinking/intelligence tech') when someone uses it to marking decisions.

berkes, 5 months ago

@cktodon @aiefel @i0null I can blame the creator if they e.g. forgot to install brakes and that harms someone. Regardless of how stupid I am when operating it, it needs to have some standards before I am to blame.