Since it created such turmoil, the link to UnknownCheats has been removed from the disclaimer on kernel based anticheat games.
Instead, we are making it clear those games must be avoided at all cost. Don't compromise the security of your machine for some low quality F2P cash grab.
I see a lot of backlash since you took a stand against games relying on kernel anti-cheat, but you can be assured that you get my support here.
Developing a software allowing to play games on Linux should not force you to endorse each and every game out there. Nobody rants against ./play.it providing no support for DRM-gated games (well, barring one or two exceptions over ten years), I don’t see why it should be any different when lutris advise against playing games relying on anti-cheat software.
@Nawer_Rapter the problem isn't that those game have an online component. The problem is the kernel module giving complete access to a machine to game publishers, which is a recent phenomenon.
@gamingonlinux a tantrum about what? I'm perfectly happy without those games. People visiting the Lutris website need to get a clear message about why those popular games will not work and why to avoid them in general.
@gamingonlinux Lutris does not generate enough income to classify any of it as professional. If I have to give up on making any kind of living with Lutris, I might as well stay really opinionated.
If you have other, more elegant ways to convey the same message, I'm open to suggestions. The website's code is on Github.
@lutris that entire message could be a single paragraph just informing people why it doesn’t work, you’re smart enough to know exactly what I mean.
Also, “Professional” isn’t about funding, it’s about how you present yourself and the project and messages like that aren’t going to win more support but do the opposite IMO - if anything it will push people towards other projects
We Linux community need to really stop the Windows bashing toxicity.
It will not direct more income to Linux projects.
People come because they enjoy what these projects actually accomplish - not by how much better it is than ....
What Lutris/strycore (I guess) conveys is really clear: being in the posiiton to allways fixup the Windows quirks / Epic/EA/Ubisoft/... or worse DRM flaws IS HARD AND FRUSTRATING WORK .
Be kind & clear: new users coming are not yet angry
@fschaupp@gamingonlinux while I agree Windows bashing doesn't produce anything useful, it's not really the real matter here.
It's now a lot easier to maintain all windows games than it used to be. Now we can work on making the experience more polished, less confusing. Removing some of the confusion is making it clear that adopting Linux as a gaming platform means giving up on games using kernel ACs. If that's too much of a sacrifice then windows remains the better solution.
@gamingonlinux@lutris Good job updating the message! Personally, I don't think it reads like a tantrum at all. I think the new message is much better, except for the sentence: "Those games being free to play, they rely on exploitative mechanics to incite gamers to purchase in-game content."
I get that you're trying to inform people and possibly influence them. But the rest of the warning is about security, which I think is the right tack. Mixing in the bit about F2P exploitation muddies the message. I think if you took that one sentence out, you'd improve it greatly. 🙂
@amanzer@gamingonlinux I agree. Microtransactions, loot boxes and season passes are whole different issues on their own. And they are not exclusive to kernel AC games.
@gamingonlinux@lutris if having an opinion is unprofessional, than I will gladly support every single project that isn't professional.
Kernel level anti-cheat is an abhorrent violation of privacy, trust and expectations, it doesn't even work, and evidently can be bypassed quite easily. There is no need to be coy about it - if it's shit, it should be said like that.
Professionalism is the death of good communication.
@ignaloidas@lutris last i checked Lutris was a game manager / launcher, not a blog, sticking opinionated paragraphs on game pages is simply not the right place
@gamingonlinux@lutris It's very much the right place. People need to understand why that shit will never work on Linux, who's fault is it, and who to go and complain to about it, and the current paragraph explains that very well. The fact that it's "not a blog" should not under no circumstances stop it from having opinions. Every single project is opinionated, just some don't express them - while often they really should. This is a problem that directly impacts the project - there is no reason to just silently ignore it.
@gamingonlinux@lutris If being professional means not saying that shit is shit, than you can go and put that professionalism up your arse. The current message is very clear, doesn't hide shit, and gives clear and actionable advice. I'd love if every damn company communicated with such clarity and succinctness.
I don't think gaming on Linux requires corporate-speaking (what you consider "professional", apparently).
That text just states facts and provides the obvious conclusion in case some users are not sure: by playing those games you are giving away the basic security of your machine so you should just not play them. How many times in daily life you see such warnings? I do all the time.
Promotion of Linux as a mainstream platform is becoming an obession.
@gamingonlinux@lutris I see your point, but I think it's perfectly fine to for an open source Linux gaming platform to voice their opinions (or even be "opinionated") on kernel-level anti-cheat, since this is a problem this directly affects their users.
It's like Greenpeace having opinions on climate politics, or privacy-focused companies criticising Google when they do something bad.
But sure, maybe the tone could have been changed a bit some places to make it sound more "professional" and less opinionated (could maybe remove that "just as competitive and more fun work" part) - to make it clear that this is not just someone's opinion, but objectively a problem. On the other hand, I'm not sure how much I care about that, since Lutris after all isn't run by a big corporation and there's actually a human behind it.
So please keep the message there, I think it's an important point - and people need to know why these games won't run outside of Windows (it's not Linux/Wine/Lutris' fault - it's all on the developer), and that they're not "safe" to run on Windows either.
@matias@lutris once again, i don't object to a message, but the contents of the message and the opinionated nature of it
a clear and concise message is better than trying to lecture users on what games they play, which IMO is firmly not the place of a game manager / launcher
@lutris@gamingonlinux That's fine, but there are a quite a few users who also play and like those games very much.
This kind of messaging will only push them away from using Lutris and even Linux as a whole. After all, the goal is to help users make an informed choice and not antagonize them.
@ProfessorCode@gamingonlinux the gamers who are addicted to F2P games are not going to use Linux anyway the very moment they realize their game won't work. If I can make just a few of them reconsider their life choices, that's a win. At least, this will reduce the number of people complaining about games not working on the support Discord channel.
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