The U.S. government should not be in the business of shutting down social media firms on the basis of China-hate. TikTok is no worse (and in fact seems to be far better) than various social media apps from U.S.-based firms. There's a lot of be upset with China about, but TikTok (and drone leader DJI, which also has bipartisan China-hate trying to ban it) are not where Congress should be getting involved. If Congress passes such bans and Biden signs them, there will be major court battles and courts should strike the bans down.
@lauren the point is not to punish China, it’s because its a security threat. Think of it this way - imagine if Musk bought Tik Tok. It would be a shit show right? Nobody would disagree. Now, instead of Musk, imagine it was Xi Jinping. Same shit show, except Xi already effectively controls Tik Tok. See where this is going? Its not about punishing China or Tik Tok, its just we dont trust the Chinese Communist Party to be in control of a social media company with so much power in the US
@CaptMorgan I consider Zuckerberg and Musk to be vastly more dangerous in terms of security and privacy risks than TikTok. If China wants data on U.S. citizens, right down to detailed PII, all they have to do is buy it (even if through third parties) from the U.S. data brokers that Congress refuses to control. China doesn't need to screw around with social media apps and drones to do it. It's all utter nonsense.
Im not sure what point your making. The fact that someone who bought some tiktok stock has done some bad things has what exactly to do with tiktok? Is he the CEO or even work for them?
@freemo@realcaseyrollins@CaptMorgan@lauren just read the article. he owns over 15% valued at 15 billion. His susquehanna group gave startup funding for bytedance in 2012. He's not "some random investor"
I mean tats literally some random dude with shares, granted its a high value of shares, but still a random dude with shares. You do know a share holder, no matter how many shares they hold, does not get to dictate or influence day to day operations at a company right?
@freemo@realcaseyrollins@CaptMorgan@lauren well then you know a major stakeholder that helped found a company has influence, he's not some rando. Additionally you know that tiktok is funding the GOP and right wing Israeli think tanks through him
It would literally be illegal (and very uncommon) for an investor who holds no position in a company to have any day-to-day influence. They can and do have influence when they hold a position in the company. That position may even be as a board member, though this would very much limit their dat-to-day influence.
Not what I said... try reading what I said and try again.
My new company has about 7 founding investors at about the same ownership % as him... I have never even heard from a single one of them past the initial investment. I run the company and they dont even know me, let alone have influence.
@freemo@realcaseyrollins@CaptMorgan@lauren you got it bud! Good luck with your companies. Might want to look into how shareholders wield power in company decision making my friend. Take care.
You might want to try bringing your reading comprehension up. I never said they had no influence in decision making. I said they have no influence on day-to-day operations. Words are your friend.
@freemo@realcaseyrollins@CaptMorgan@lauren oh wow! That's what you said. Huh. I thought it was "I mean tats literally some random dude with shares". I deeply apologize for my poor reading skills and i am in deep gratitude for you correcting my foolishness. Thank you. 🤣🤣🤣
Thats what happens when you dont actually read what was really said... glad you realized reading the whole thing is important. Hopefully you wont make that mistake again in the future.
Depending on the type of stock, the investor y'all are talking about might be qualified as an official stockholder who therefore can influence the company. Could be the case here; but to get your way you would have to influence other stockholders. 15% is not enough stock to control a company.
my friend, Jeff Yass the GOP ghoul helped found bytedance, tiktok's owner, by giving it their initial funding. he's not a rando investor. and from the tenor of the conversation with the other guy you should understand how hilariously ridiculous this empty posturing on a false line of reasoning is
F*** tiktok. Do not engage in absurd denial of what it is
It is already the thing you hate, you're just having trouble accepting that
you called it fearmongering. you also insinuated domestic spying via domestic apps is far worse. Lol!
If you had any principles about you you would condemn facebook and tiktok like me, as both terrible threats. But you instead want to shield and defend tiktok from attack rather than nod your head it should be attacked and demand the same for facebook. that is the only valid position.
I'm quoting you. Are you saying "learn to read" because you don't even know what your own words are? Or do you know you've been called out and you're hand waving and backing off?
@benroyce@CaptMorgan@lauren@freemo I’m saying “learn to read” because you have been demonstrating an embarrassingly low literacy level throughout this entire thread.
Again, if you think I’m defending #TikTok in any way, you need to learn how to read, and then try again.
@realcaseyrollins@CaptMorgan@lauren@freemo you called it fearmongering. I quoted you. You said learn to read. I showed the quote. Now you're saying "yeah like well um you still need to learn to read or something, yeah." 🤣🤣🤣
@realcaseyrollins@CaptMorgan@lauren@freemo dude you were funny with the 4th grade recess level bs. now you're getting into the level of meanness encountered in 6th grade cafeteria. come on man, do better! 🤣🤣🤣
@benroyce@CaptMorgan@lauren@freemo Just curious! I want to be fair to you. Your reading comprehension is REALLY poor, but if #English isn’t your first language, it’d be uncool for me to criticize you for that.
@realcaseyrollins@CaptMorgan@lauren@freemo this entire thread is pointless crap at this point so none of this matters. But thank you sir, for correcting me that when someone calls going after tiktok merely fearmongering, they aren't defending tiktok in any way. you have elevated my reading comprehension 🤣🤣🤣
@benroyce@CaptMorgan@lauren@freemo Haha well, I’m glad you had fun with the thread at least! Hope you have a good rest of your day and you spend it learning the #English language lol
This guy truely is a jackass in his comments.. he "pretends" to be a dumbass to mask actually being a dumbass and thinks its some sort of snarky debati g tactic tonpretend to completely misunderstand and misrepresent other peoples point and then argue agaibst the point he made up instead.
dr. freemo comes in with "I mean tats literally some random dude with shares" and expects any interaction after that embarrassing cringe is anything but a clownshow
i merely meet you at the galaxy brain bar you set my friend. of course it's a waste of time but we aim for entertainment
anyways, i blocked you twice, you refollowed twice. as thirsty as you are i apologize business professor, but the third block will be final. i think you'll survive 🙏
This isthis guys idiotic debate tactic. He completly misrepresents your argument, co tinues to pretend to be too stupid to understand even once you clarify his misubderstanding, thrn mock you for making a bad argument you never made.
Somehow he tbinks actibg like a moron makes him look smart or something.
On the flip side me and 2 other investors DO hold positions, all C-level, and as a result of holding positions we have a great deal of influence as founders.
@lauren@CaptMorgan
I think it sets a net positive precedent and so all for it. The Rubicon of realizing the power of these commercial companies is crossed.
Bravo.
I'm not in the "who will think of the poor Chinese billionaires" club because I'm in the "I don't care about ANY billionaires" club.
@Okanogen@CaptMorgan It has nothing to do with billionaires as far as Congress is concerned. They ADORE billionaires. It's all about China, and there's a pretty obvious racial component involved as well.
@lauren@CaptMorgan
Sure.
But I don't care about Chinese billionaires any more than American or South African ones.
That hill (who gets to own TikTok) is not one I have any interest at all in dying on, and if it shakes normies up about the evil of both state and corporate social media, and loosens the logjam by proving legislation is possible, count me in.
@Okanogen@lauren@CaptMorgan it’s not going to shake up anything. Billionaires will (correctly) interpret this as an anti-China move, not an anti-billionaire move. Mark Z. and Elon are not losing any sleep over this.
And the most likely outcome is not that TikTok is sold, but that it’s just banned in the US (because China would have to consent to the sale of TikTok, and in the past they’ve said they will refuse), which only means more business for FB and X, and less competition.
@cohomologyisFUN@Okanogen@CaptMorgan And, with Trump having already quickly reversed from his original anti-TikTok position, he will claim HE is the friend of all those millions of pissed off TikTok users and all the ones who lose their livelihoods as a result of a ban. If courts go along (which is not a given).
@Okanogen@cohomologyisFUN@CaptMorgan They're clearly trying to be an entertainment venue, not a political one. That is their choice, of course. And they're not the only platform that has moved in that direction.
@Okanogen@lauren@CaptMorgan The only thing I hear from people in government is about the risk of placing the most effective disinformation site in the hands of the US' greatest adversary.
@lauren@Okanogen@CaptMorgan Racist politicians are not the only people concerned about this. Many cool heads inside the US government are very concerned about Tiktok and about social media in general.
@lauren@Okanogen@CaptMorgan But I don't think anyone knows how to reconcile the risk of rapid disinformation spread with the threat to free speech of trying to regulate social media.
@CaptMorgan@tdietterich@Okanogen Eventually the restrictions being pushed onto the large social media platforms (like government ID requirements for usage, etc.) will find their way down to Mastodon. It's just a matter of time. Right now it's not on the radar. That's just a temporary condition.
@lauren@tdietterich@Okanogen We do have alot of 1st amendment protections . Im not sure if they could make a law requiring that if I as a private individual would need a government ID to host my own instance and federate that instance . How would they do that? Of course it would be our wonderful supreme court that would enforce those 1st amendment rights. Not exactly a great track record right now for protecting individual freedoms 🫢
@CaptMorgan@tdietterich@Okanogen It is actually a tough call at the Supreme Court. In fact, the bipartisan nature of these ID demands will probably result in unusual groupings of justices on these issues.
But this is why proponents are doing the old "camel's nose under the tent" routine by framing it all in terms of "protecting the children". Then they can expand from there. In fact, ironically, their preferred model is actually the Chinese Internet model!
It's also disturbing how many people upon hearing that there would be mechanisms to keep children off the platforms don't realize that this means government IDs being used for EVERY user of the platforms, including ALL ADULTS.
@tdietterich@Okanogen@CaptMorgan Sure, mostly the same ones using the "protect the children" push to try enact government micromanagement of content and vast ID regulations for Internet use tied to government credentials to allow the government to ultimately track every user across the Internet. And if you don't think the current government would do that, imagine what a MAGA government would do with such capabilities.
@Okanogen@tdietterich@CaptMorgan That doesn't make it racist, it means they're trying (rather crudely) to focus TikTok on entertainment and not politics. Other platforms are moving in the same direction.
@lauren@tdietterich@CaptMorgan
Do they outlaw the phrases "reverse discrimination", "illegal immigrants", or "will replace us" among many others? If so, this theory holds water.
@lauren@tdietterich@CaptMorgan
That's a charitable and non-critical take.
Can we just not support ANY corporate or state-owned social media? Too much to ask?
@Okanogen@lauren@CaptMorgan if the problem is that TikTok has too much power, the solution is to make regulations that address that power, not simply force the transfer of that power from one group of billionaires to another.
@lauren@CaptMorgan This is definitely true for PII. I think the govt's concern is not with PII, though. I think they're concerned about user manipulation and the power media platforms have to control their users.
(not commenting one way or the other beyond this, I don't have a formed opinion)
@kaylie@CaptMorgan If they're concerned about user manipulation, they should shut down Twitter/X, and kick Musk and his companies out of every government contract as soon as practicable. He is enormously more dangerous to national security and a vastly larger source of disinformation than anything China could ever do.
@lauren@kaylie absolutely!! Or at least put limits on how they can manipulate the feed or the platform for nefarious purposes. But really free and open decentralized social media is the only solution that works.
@CaptMorgan@kaylie Decentralized doesn't work at scale for ordinary nontechie users. In a very real way, Mastodon is a toy in these respects, utterly unsuited to scale upward very far. A very enjoyable toy to be sure, but a toy nonetheless.
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