About 4 people at work Monday discovered the blackouts and learned the reason from following Google results. I'd say that shows the effectiveness of the protest. That's 4 individuals that I work with personally who wouldn't have known otherwise about the api problem that now do. I can only imagine how many people are in that same boat.
SEO as a concept needs to die. dont get me wrong i want Lemmy to show up in google results but doing that by spamming keywords and unrelated “related” posits is not the move
the reality is that current-day SEO isn't even Optimization, it's Lying. try googling a recipe or an alternative to a popular software and see how the first four pages are all ad-ridden, useless spam-bot articles designed to retain users rather than give them the information they are looking for
honestly we should have collectively realized way earlier that putting all the useful, readable, un-touched-by-SEO help content for basically every niche hobby fandom and ideology in the hands of one for-profit entity was not very wisdom-pilled of us
I've said it numerous times over the years, the Internet has been centralizing rapidly and it benefits none of us.
In 2005 you'd wander around, going from peoples' personal pages to forums to whatever else people linked. In 2015 half of those websites were dead because everyone got their content on reddit anyway.
some people have, but whenever you'd mention it, you'd be met with "lol take the tinfoil hat off", "but we're already using [for-profit platform] why would we move when everyone's here" and "but it's haaaaaaard".
I agree, but I also have serious concerns about this being the replacement strategy. It could be because of my ignorance of how this all works though. Like many of you, I am new and here because of the reddexodus.
These servers are going to cost money, and for many of them the money will run out. Is there a function to preserve the collective content of an entire server once it goes dark? I know that you can migrate your own account to another server, but what happens to everything Google has indexed at Lemmy.world if the worst happens? Is it all just dead links? What if many of the users do not migrate? Is it just gone?
I am concerned that in the current state we are setting up to burn everything that loses a couple admins or becomes too old to economically host.
I was on a mastodon server and the owner decided it was not worth his money to keep running. He did not inform anyone on the server or allow any account backups and all was lost.
With federated services, I feel like it's somewhat important to get to know the admins of the server you use. You don't have to be best friends, but at least know their name, motivation for running the server, and how it's funded.
These are certainly possibilities! It's happened elsewhere in the Fediverse... but already we can export most of our data and migrate to a different instance. Getting these base features right is important before enhancing their functionality. Planning for the future is important too. So far I've been impressed by Lemmy, though it's not nearly as portable as Mastodon or Calckey or Pleroma etc. Part of that is that in Lemmy/kbin we don't follow other users... we subscribe to groups (subs/communities/magazines).
Still, with the nature of ActivityPub, it's inevitable that migration tools for Reddit-like federated apps will get built quick-like
I'm sorry, but clearly you have not looked for niche information on Google for a while now. Lots of links end in dead ones, particularly when I am looking for vehicle information on older models.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say, we shouldn't be concerned because this problem already happened?
A lot niche older vehicle information, if it wasn't hosted on Reddit, was often on forums funded by enthusiasts, which eventually ran out of money and no longer exist. This is exactly the problem that I'm concerned about. Particularly so if a certain community balloons in popularity and an admin nukes it to keep the server costs under control for the other members.
Completely what I'm saying, but to add on it is not just forums. With the new web, I've hit a deadend on many OEM websites as well, and part websites, and others. I'm sure cell phone and computer information is similar, in fact after trying to research a power supply for my old prebuilt I know it's a fight.
If we have communities sync'ed on multiple instances we can solve that. At first this was my presumption for how the federation works, but I then learned /c/Pennsylvania on one instance is helpful local news and on another its right-wing propaganda.
Before reddit removed them most of this compiled knowledge was in the subreddit wikis. I honestly believe a return to communities with wikis is the long term replacement.
we can still easily fall into this trap if there isn't a good way to migrate communities between instances. And even if we could just take /c/technology@beehaw.org and move the whole thing to /c/technology@feddit.de or something, that would still break all the indexers' links
I just can't agree more with you. Like wow this reddit blackout has truthfully opened my eyes to the massive, giant and incredibly amount of useful information that is currently resting on reddit servers.
The federated nature of instances unfortunately might nerf the SEO because they're from different domains. Google wouldn't value instance_1. com more because the clicks to related_instance_2. com are higher.
I thought links between domains helped pagerank score? Mind you, it's been a while since I learned SEO. A lot of the content, especially the federated stuff, seems to be loaded via javascript. I wonder if that affects what can be indexed.
If it's done right, it's still indexable because in the first render the content is delivered with HTML. On subsequent clicks, the browser fetches via JavaScript, but the URL in the browser still changes and if you refresh, the page is fetched containing the content again.
That's important not only for search engines, but also for screen readers, fast rendering and devises without JavaScript. I think Google is totally able to index JavaScript generated content, but pages will get a higher rank if it's done in an accessible way.
Reddit actions are tragic for the web. I can't even tell you how many times I searched something and typed Reddit at the end of the query. Not just because Reddit search SUCKS, but mostly because it's a gold mine of information. Especially for technical stuff.
Your game crash? Reddit. Weird bug on your laptop? Reddit. Looking for a cool app? Reddit. Have a weird question? Reddit.
Reddit saved me countless hours and headache. I felt that yesterday when doing a search about something without even putting Reddit on it, kept bringing up Reddit links. I'd click on it without reading and end up on a locked sub because of the blackout.
It sucks but I hope it's going to continue. But at the same time, I don't see Reddit backing down. And even lf they do? I'm not going back. Because how dare you? Like... screw you for even trying to pull that crap on your users.
Try using ChatGPT if you haven't. Ive used Reddit in the past for a lot of troubleshooting, but ChatGPT is easier to get the answers I'm looking for unless I asked the question myself. But there's no judgement from ChatGPT lol
Though, take care to factcheck what you get from it; all it really is is just a word predictor, and it can be pretty good at confidently telling you absolute nonsense that sounds right
Agree, but I think that's the point: this is the proof we have to switch to a different model. It will take time to replace Reddit as the huge information source it was (and to a certain extent still is), but I'm willing to hope it can happen.
Not trying to be hostile, but you just went on about how useful reddit is, but you also hope it dies? I just don't understand why people support these long blackouts while admitting it won't make reddit change it's mind.
Not OP but I think this type of information is not something a for-profit company should be able to hold against everyone on the Internet. At this point I think reddit has to 'die' in order for a better, more open standard to take its place. Even if they do cave to the demands they have shown that they are willing to sacrifice the platform and usability for more profits, so there is no knowing what they will do in the future. It's a great loss, but I would rather get it over with now so there is solid foundation to build on and this doesn't happen again.
Also, I find that basically every search result that isn't reddit is sponsored content.
Search something real specific like "Best aftermarket injector coils for a 2009 Toyota Corolla" and you're going to get 100% advertisements and listicles for search results, likely written by somebody who doesn't know shit about cars.
Append "reddit" to that search, and you'll be led to a post from a car mechanic giving their opinion on the matter. And, well, I do trust a random stranger on the internet more than I do an advertisement.
Agreed. But it's a nice reminder that these huge companies that get money by renting out our eyeballs actually provide very little content - just the platform we happen to be stuck with for the time being.
kinda think we need a search engine that can index fedirated sites . like lemmy /mastedon /pleroma .etc .etc
searching for help with technical /specific things has become a nightmare .as al the usefull subreddits have gone dark due to the ongoing protest . making google not so helpfull at all to use
Before reddit removed them most of this compiled knowledge was in the subreddit wikis. I honestly believe a return to communities with wikis is the long term replacement.
Honestly, not a bad opinion, when the wikis were done well, they did have some extremely useful information. I wonder if we could do something like that in Lemmy...
Makes me want to go back and edit my posts to f*** /u/spez because I don't want them getting traffic off of my content. But also don't want that entire collection of human data gone if everyone did the same.
Too bad we can't all export and reconstruct our conversations here somehow.
My posts are 99% shitposts anyway, so it doesn't really matter, nothing constructive to mankind.
Use a tool to edit all your comments to a Lorem ipsum, the more useless data they have filling their database the better, I prefer this to simply deleting them all and freeing up their database storage.
Btw, I don't know any tool for that, but I guess there should be some because I saw some users editing all their comments.
I've actively found this as well but honestly, I think it's for the best because most of the time Reddit posts with actual answers aren't well-cited. So if anyone asks how you know something, "uhh Reddit told me" is pretty weak. So Google is getting better because Reddit has gotten worse. It means that you have to go to the actual articles and find the actual sources instead of this daisy chain of information. We have a huge issue with misinformation and this actually helps resolve it.
All the stuff i would use reddit as an actual source for is things where it's either obvious that the person is wrong or easy to check or think through. Same for lemmy
We have a huge issue with misinformation and this actually helps resolve it.
I'm not really sure about that. Bad SEO is something that still exists, and with huge sites like Reddit gone, the bad SEO sites become more prominent which is not necessarily the site with actual articles and sources.
Of course the solution to this is not reddit back but stopping SEO and having better curation of sites in search engines somehow.
Wait you use reddit posts to inform yourself on things where misinformation is possible? I also was mildy inconvenienced by the blackouts but it was mostly related to programming stuff, where it is very obvious if an answer is wrong. I don't think I would even consider using reddit as a source for anything factual
I work as a game developer and a programmer. There are a lot of possibility for people to be wrong. Specially when it comes to design or usage. A lot of misinformation in programming is like yeah this answer technically since this specific case but when you scale it, it breaks entirely. Like https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/stealth-based-mechanics/6992/6 is a great example where yeah a trace will work, your data will be inaccurate a bit, you won't be able to scale it and it won't work with a lot of edge case lighting. The better solution is to use a grey colored mesh and a scene capture to get information consistently about both the baked and dynamic lighting. You might even have a better way though like getting the data from lumen or shadow maps.
So even with things you think won't have misinformation, you get misinformation and people guessing while presenting they are right.
I've made a bad habit of attaching the word "reddit" to the end of too many of my searches even for questions that I should be looking for their answers in trusted sources instead of taking answers from random redditors the blackout has helped a little with avoiding that.
Never heard about Kagi before, thanks for mentioning it! How is your experience with it? I tried DuckDuckGo for a while and wasn't to happy about it. Is it comparable?
If you've ever owned an older car, you know that this is the absolute best approach.
Good luck getting exceptionally niche advice for things like that on reddit. Forums get so much more specific, you get an entire forum dedicated to one car model that was only built for 5 years and a bunch of people there know literally everything about it, like the fact that you're better off getting an aftermarket PCV valve because those are built a bit better and don't fail early, or the fact that the shifter cable has the tendency to get water in it so you better be careful shifting out of park on a really cold morning, you might just snap the cable if it's old.
Give it some time, people will get comfortable here, the revolution dust will settle an we will be adding ‘-Reddit “Lemmy”’ to search queries (fingers crossed!)
But how would this work with broader federation? Searching other instances like beehaw or kbin? We'll needan new search optimization to search the fediverse more efficiently.
I'm not sure what to think about the price. I can't really imagine life without a search engine, even though I was alive for a couple of decades before search engines existed. I pay $400/month for my car, but my search engine arguably gives me more value (I am lucky not to need to drive a lot). I wouldn't pay $400/month for a search engine. But $5-10 to have a degree of freedom from the tracking and results that aren't just trying to get my money? I am intrigued.
I was amped for Kagi when I first heard about it. But they bumped the price up after the LMM boom. Still might have to bite the bullet as part of desire to use paid ad-free services.
Depending on how much you use it, it might not be that much worse though... The old price was 10$/mo for unlimited searches. Now they offer different tiers starting at 5$/mo for 300 searches.
Personally, I use about 300-500 searches per month, so my monthly bill is actually less than it used to be (5-7$).
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