Women in China are telling each other to bring their boyfriends to see 'Barbie' — and to use it as a litmus test for their thoughts on feminism and patriarchy

For some women in China, “Barbie” is more than just a movie — it’s also a litmus test for their partner’s views on feminism and patriarchy.

The movie has prompted intense social media discussion online, media outlets Sixth Tone and the China Project reported this week, prompting women to discuss their own dating experiences.

One user on the Chinese social media platform Xiaohongshu — a photo-sharing site similar to Instagram that’s mostly used by Gen Z women — even shared a guide on Monday for how women can test their boyfriends based on their reaction to the film.

According to the guide, if a man shows hatred for “Barbie” and slams female directors after they leave the theatre, then this man is “stingy” and a “toxic chauvinist,” according to Insider’s translation of the post. Conversely, if a man understands even half of the movie’s themes, “then he is likely a normal guy with normal values and stable emotions,” the user wrote.

Psyduck_world, (edited )

I thought the movie criticizes both extreme feminism and male chauvinism, or did I watch a different Barbie movie?

DessertStorms,
DessertStorms avatar

Lmfao "extreme feminism"
"tHeY wAnT eXtReMe eQuAlItY!1!1" smdfh

[citation needed]

(and no, men being generalised against as shits is not an act of extremism no matter how uncomfortable it made you feel lol get back to me when the levels of harm become even close to being comparable)

Chetzemoka,
Chetzemoka avatar

I don't think that's the feminism that the movie was criticizing, but rather the commodified "girl boss feminism" that holds up conventionally beautiful commercial attainment as the ultimate aspirational icon.

As opposed to the feminism of intersectionality and respect for the rights and choices of normal, everyday women.

boredtortoise,

That’s what the article is saying as well.

Any gendered chauvinism sucks and patriarchy causes suffering to anyone.

And if someone comes out of the movie angered by this knowledge, they can be a troublesome person to other people.

kraftpudding,

Yeah. Barbie Was not the good guy in the Barbie movie, right? Like, even in the end they admit that they will not give the Kens true equality, just enough that they basically won’t revolt again. People here calling Barbie a feminist icon, what movie were you watching?

boredtortoise,

It didn’t end up in a world that’s ready. More like a mirror of the real world but maybe healthier?

teft,
@teft@startrek.website avatar

Obviously she wasn’t the good guy. She developed a nuclear bomb for heaven’s sake. To be fair I did fall asleep for a bit but I’m pretty sure I got the big plot points.

Asafum,

Lmfao what the actual fuck?

I didn’t watch the movie, nor do I know anything about the premise, so seeing that comment and thinking about Barbie the toy is absolutely hilarious…

kluevo,

It was a Barbienheimer joke, I think

T4V0,
@T4V0@lemmy.pt avatar

He’s making a joke about Barbenheimer…

Naia,

That’s the point. They blatantly say “someday, the Ken’s will have as much rights as women do in the real world”

The entire point is that treating people as second class like thst isn’t good, regardless of which side its coming from and that we should all be equal. The only time I’d see men complaining about that is when they don’t get it.

bibliotectress,

That line literally made my jaw drop because I had just been thinking, “Wow this is still kinda messed up. I thought their society would end up much more equal” and then BAM! that line hits. That movie was so good. I’ve been trying to get everyone I know to see it.

Lanthanae,
@Lanthanae@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Same. I was thinking the exact same thing at that point. A massive part of the movie’s message hinges on that line and I smiled so wide when I heard it because it clicked much of the rest of the film into place.

T4V0,
@T4V0@lemmy.pt avatar

Like, even in the end they admit that they will not give the Kens true equality, just enough that they basically won’t revolt again.

That example isn’t really accurate, they say the Kens eventually will be given the same representativity as the women in the real world. That line is more of a jab against gender inequality than anything.

TheDankHold,

Sure but it’s still them making a conscious choice to keep oppressing a group until an unrelated reality fixes their shit. Doesn’t sound like they’re good guys at all tbh.

Mugly12,

But even though the women have the control, they do not oppress men like men do to women in the real world. Men still do everything they want, even if the women have the power because the women make the world amazing for everyone. A little different from reality.

stappern,

Aren’t the kens homeless?

new_acct_who_dis,

It’s not that they’re homeless, it’s just that where they live isn’t important to the story. This is because when little girls play with Ken dolls, they don’t give Ken any backstory. Kens are only there for supporting Barbie’s journey.

T4V0,
@T4V0@lemmy.pt avatar

Sure but it’s still them making a conscious choice to keep oppressing a group until an unrelated reality fixes their shit.

I hope you see the irony in that phrase.

Doesn’t sound like they’re good guys at all tbh.

This isn’t Star Wars my dude, not everything needs to be good vs evil. Sometimes there’s even room for satire.

new_acct_who_dis,

I don’t think they’re supposed to be “good guys”.

Lanthanae,
@Lanthanae@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah the movie doesn’t paint them as good guys though? The narrator comes in and states that they aren’t at that point, and stereotypical Barbie leaves because she can’t see herself as taking part in such a system anymore.

kraftpudding,

Yeah. I would not take it that literally. I’d say it means they’re gonna do to Kens what “the patriarchy” and many people who support it do to women. Concede rights when they absolutely have to and begrudgingly accept them for the sake of avoiding bigger problems, but still believe in their own supremacy and acting one way while publicly pretending to be accepting of feminism. Then they will say, see, you have all this rights and equality now, no need for “Keninism” anymore and slowly start to backslide and undermine those rights when they feel like they can.

They’re rather copying the spirit of real world patriarchy than just plainly introducing the same laws as it

MiddleWeigh,
@MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

Oh that sounds more of a nuanced theme than I was expecting. Cool.

new_acct_who_dis,

Yes! This is a great way to put it and shows the mirror it’s putting up to Western society

friendlymessage,

I think that was the point, it’s the perfect mirror to the real world. Everyone not okay with how the Barbies treat the Kens in the end should think for a second why that is and why anyone should accept the reverse in the real world.

HandwovenConsensus,

It’s also kind of a clever subtle call to action. “If you don’t like this ending, you can change it by changing things in the real world.”

Lanthanae,
@Lanthanae@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

“Stereotypical Barbie” (the Margot Robbie one) actually seems to get it by the end. In fact, her main character arc was going from being like the other barbies—watered down stereotypes of feminism—to actually a feminist who has a better grasp of why just equalizing out positions of power, while still good, does not address the root of patriarchy.

ikiru,

Okay, I’ll admit I had not the slightest clue what the plot was to Barbie before opening this post but I’m getting a little curious about this movie now.

erin,

I take slight issue with your phrasing. “Extreme feminism” isn’t an issue, that’s like saying extreme racial equality is an issue. Feminism isn’t about female superiority, it’s about gender equality. The movie does not criticize extreme feminism, it criticizes chauvinism, whether male or female.

duffman,

When your definition of feminism is “gender equality”, you’re right, there’s no such thing as an extreme. When you take the equity stance and start treating people as groups and funding/defunding one group or the other you are building up new systems of discrimination instead of breaking them down.

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

“Extreme feminism” isn’t an issue, that’s like saying extreme racial equality is an issue.

There was a time during the 2010s when third-wave feminism was pushing things too far and trying to create divisive splits on subjects that really didn’t need them, like Atheism+ and a bunch of other things with a plus sign tacked on to it. Fortunately, once the movement picked up speed, they switched gears to more important things.

So, yes, you can have an extreme view on anything, even feminism.

CrypticFawn,

I don’t know about you, but I didn’t find that movement extreme, just weird and lost and a tad silly.

IceMan,

That is indeed what is in Barbie - if you watch it and actually think about the themes. If you’re just there for the experience then the message is (quote moviegoer behind my back discussing with friends): “goddamn, this is a step in right direction, we won’t change this patriarchal world with one film however“ :P

On a basic level the message “Ken was silly, broke Barbieworld because he wanted to emulate men, they had to get Barbie and a feminist back to fix it” - and that’s what most people will get out of Barbie.

whatsarefoogee,

On a basic level the message “Ken was silly, broke Barbieworld because he wanted to emulate men, they had to get Barbie and a feminist back to fix it”

How did he break it? He basically just flipped the genders so Kens are the ruling/working class and Barbies are just subservient eye candy. Barbie just flipped it back. It’s a broken and unimaginably unfair world in either case.

When Kens ask just for a bit of equality at the end, they are shut down and given some unimportant appeasement as a joke.

new_acct_who_dis,

When Kens ask just for a bit of equality at the end, they are shut down and given some unimportant appeasement as a joke.

The movie is calling this out on purpose. It’s how women are currently treated in western society.

Darth_vader__,

why chinese guys even putting up with this shit?

FinnFooted,
  1. what shit even are you even talking about?
  2. let’s assume there’s shit, they probably put up with it because up until 2015 many baby girls were murdered and that dating pool is slim.
sachamato,

TIL about the Litmus test!

quadropiss,

I feel like this is a transcript of a TikTok video

Lev_Astov,
@Lev_Astov@lemmy.world avatar

Read by a horrendous AI voice and shared by far too many kids.

notoriousCAT74w,

What are those " themes " in that movie? You stupid women don’t even know what is in the movie and here you are trying to lecture us . And why this movie is suddenly a " litmus test " for partner’s views on "patriarchy "? You stupid wimps want to decide based on some random movie , if that man is a good person or not. This movie is obviously promoting some stupid woke ideas , trying to show how men are evil in some way or another.

TheBigHoleyCheese,

It is possible to not like Barbie and be a decent person. But the way you’re talking is exactly the kind of immature response being talked about here that would be a red flag for anyone in any situation and its hilarious.

BigBootyBoy,
@BigBootyBoy@sh.itjust.works avatar

You’re just making things up in you’re head and getting angry at them.

notoriousCAT74w,

Go make your " partner " a sandwich and leave the logical thinking to men okay?

JackRiddle,

asks question

assumes because they don’t know the answer that women(who are obiously inferior to their massive intellect) don’t know either

groups all women together as stupid

completely misunderstands the message of the movie

Good work, mate

Edit: formatting

SimplyChad,
@SimplyChad@lemmy.world avatar

Just commenting to beg the universe to get the “I’m just Ken” song out of my head.

atocci,

Anywhere else I’d be a ten

CombatWombat1212,

Honestly everyone should do that lmfao

MiddleWeigh,
@MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

I legit don’t remember the last time I went to see a movie…maybe like…one of the hobbit films? Or a Pixar flick with my niece? My brain is so addled, I do not recall. Oh well.

OK, I just asked my way more intelligent and practical wife, and it was Dunkirk, with my crazy mother, whos now all into wild conspiracies.

tenitchyfingers,

Correct. Honestly, if a dude gets offended by a movie that says “hey dude, learn how to love and value yourself without basing all of your sense of self on your romantic relationship to a woman and you’ll be much happier”, they are NOT a catch at all and they need to shed some shit about their lives.

johnlobo,

yawn

tenitchyfingers,

Have fun getting no pussy anywhere lmao

johnlobo,

YAWN

99nights,

This is just pure cringe…

afraid_of_zombies,

All this stuff around the movie is making me not want to see it.

I want to watch a movie, not be evaluated on my reaction to it.

ox0r,

I’mevaluatibg you on tour reactionaire right now!Talke that!

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

I’mevaluatibg you on tour reactionaire right now!Talke that!

Does that mean we can evaluate you on your ability to write sentences without typos?

PersnickityPenguin,

Wrekt lol. 🤣

lilmagpie,

Nah, just go watch the movie. It’s very funny.

afraid_of_zombies,

Alright. When it comes on Netflix or something

ubermeisters,

Arrrr matey

kookaloo,

I went and watched it with my missus. We laughed throughout and didn’t take it seriously, and there were no intense conversations after. I think I’d re-evaluate my relationship if I were being judged on my reaction to a pretty light-hearted comedy about a doll world.

PersnickityPenguin,

Now imagine if your partner got angry about the movie and threatened to never allow you to choose another movie again, and that you should spend more time working at the office to earn a higher paycheck.

Varixable,

So go watch the movie?

This has big “I’m way too cool and interesting to consume popular thing” energy.

You can go see the movie and form your own opinion and not need to tell everyone online. You can even go see it by yourself!

afraid_of_zombies,

See what I mean? If not try rereading again what you wrote.

Varixable,

Nah, I really don’t.

PersnickityPenguin,

Are you actually insinuating that the person you responded to should think about things?

The horror!

/S

Jakeroxs,

Krystal Ball on breaking points mentioned it just wasn’t a great movie and kinda ham fisted pseudo-feminism.

Idk haven’t watched it, wife and I are both just like “meh”

MrSqueezles,

There’s literal direct to frame exposition about expectations for appearance put on women by Barbie. Meanwhile, a fucking ripped and constantly flexing Ryan Gosling spends 90% of the movie shirtless. Yes, it’s completely ham fisted and spends most of its time justifying its existence and letting you know it understands itself when it clearly doesn’t.

poopknife, (edited )

Because maybe… just maybe… it was also critiquing and making satire of the expectations from a ken? and emasculation? the mental effects of always being seen as a himbo? as well as how the company’s marketing idea of strong women was also enforced without consent and thereby removing agency as barbies had to fit into the box the boardroom made as well as the kens? i feel like I hear a whoosh.

MrSqueezles,

I was so ready for that payoff and then it turned out that Ken being defined by Barbie and having no purpose of his own except his looks was a shitty simile for how women are supposedly treated in the real world. Barbie literally exposits about it at least twice in case we missed it. I would be fully on board for a, “Be your own person.”, movie. This was a, "Men are universally, without exception, sexist to women and bad at everything and women shouldn’t put up with them except maybe a few lower court appointments. ', movie.

Except that one nod to Ken needing an education to get a job and saying men are bad at patriarchy, but the literal next line is about how they’re actually great at patriarchy and they’ve just gotten better at hiding it hahaha… ha… ha.

So whoosh back at ya. And what a shitty thing to say.

PersnickityPenguin,

Sounds like a good time

yeather,

Ryan Gosling constantly flexing was the best part of that movie

DragonTypeWyvern,

His outfit in the end was, in fact, cool.

MooseLad,

Did you somehow miss the entire exposition near the end of the movie? The Kens learn to respect themselves, do what they like, and learn to be themselves instead of attaching their identity to macho bullshit and how Barbie views them. It was a pretty big scene. Gosling comes to grips that Barbie doesn’t love him the way he wants and that he shouldn’t value himself based on how she feels about him. He even covers up with a tie dye “I’m Kenough” hoodie, ditching his fake persona.

MrSqueezles,

You got me. I totally missed the part where Kens trick Barbies into quitting their jobs and fetching beers, Barbies rescue Barbies from Kens, Barbies rescue Kens from Kens, then explain to the audience, “This whole time, you felt bad for Ken, but it was the most transparently veiled simile for how women are treated in society, so don’t feel bad for Ken having no purpose or agency in Barbieland. Feel guilty about women in the real world.”

Let’s put this together. What’s wrong with women? Men are unfair to women (Will Farrel) and the patriarchy (America Ferrera) and objectify women (construction workers) and set unfair expectations (by running the company making Barbie) etc and it’s literally all men. What’s wrong with men? Men. Men are the problem because they only care about beer and horses and suppressing women and can’t do anything right, especially running Barbieland. This movie is dumb. I mean, it’s either unimaginably sexist or dumb. I choose to believe it’s stupidity that caused the filmmakers to lack any type of self reflection.

MooseLad,

Wow media literacy is truly dead. First of all it’s satire. Everything is elevated to such ridiculous levels to poke fun at society. They’re not saying all men care about is hummers and horses. They fail at running Barbieland because the only thing they care about continues to be impressing Barbie and winning her approval. I think you were just looking for something to be mad about or weren’t paying attention if you think that was where the film landed on men and their role in society. You seem to have a very shallow understanding of the film and you need to give it another watch.

Ryan Gosling’s Ken has one of the best arcs in the entire film. He goes from being obsessed, needy, and subservient to being a competitive, stereotypical bro, confusing machismo with self confidence, and finally along with all the other Ken’s realizes that all he needs is to be himself. No competition, no flexing, no being reliant on others to feel good about himself. He gains awareness of the world and the feelings of others around him. No, by the end of the film he doesn’t find his purpose, but he is now in a place where he can explore himself and find it.

MrSqueezles,

What’s wrong is the disparity between the arcs of Barbie and Ken, a disparity that isn’t unique to this movie, but is especially stark. Barbie goes on a journey of self realization and actualization. Ken goes on a journey of becoming a huge dong so he can get put back in his place and schooled by Barbie. I would rather he have no agency at all and focus on Barbie than this heavy handed, exposition heavy, wet noodle of a delivery.

Axium,

Meanwhile, a fucking ripped and constantly flexing Ryan Gosling spends 90% of the movie shirtless.

The movie isn’t being hypocritical, Ken is supposed to reflect the negative stereotypes and expectations put upon men by patriarchy, and the double-sided sword male stereotypes are. Ken both desires the respect and recognition they give, whilst breaking down over the emotional suppresion and hardy appearances they force upon guys.

Ken’s Lines from the penultimate musical number: “I have feelings that i can’t explain, driving me insane” “Am i not hot when I’m in my feelings?” “Is it my destiny to live and die a life of blond fragility?”

MrSqueezles,

Great, so how about we level the movie out with a Barbie with a huge rack, a low cut top, and a rocking ass just hanging out since her attractiveness and sexiness are major themes? Or how about not either one Barbie or Ken and just make them regular attractive people with clothes on please? And if we are going to have Ken be a significant character, give him the ability to not be a passive doofus jerk about every single thing, whose only self driven character progression is toward awfulness. Maybe he can learn anything without Barbie explaining it to him.

The movie is bad. It never heard of, “Show, don’t tell.” It’s also obviously sexist. It’s impossible to miss that there are many Barbies and Kens and all Barbies are great unless they’re somehow tricked into being oppressed and all Kens are fucking morons who, when left to their own devices, fuck everything up. These are pretty major plot points and I didn’t appreciate them.

Just a note, I have zero problems with horny movies, but if you’re trying make a point about people, “having”, to be sexy, be consistent.

MossBear,

Of note…American conservatives/confederates absolutely detest the Barbie movie.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

China Stay Winning

MossBear,

I agree that Chinese women being more progressive is a threat to the conservative Chinese government.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I guess time will tell…

DragonTypeWyvern, (edited )

I mean, actual Marxist thought is explicitly feminist, at least under the definition that women are the intellectual and legal equals of men. The Soviets, for all their flaws, flipped one of the most rigid patriarchies in the world into one with… Well, some semblance of women’s liberation.

And whatever other societal problems they have, or whether you can even call them Marxists, China isn’t attacking womens’ right to not die to a miscarriage.

MossBear,

I’m not overly familiar with that aspect of Marxism, but I can certainly believe it. I can’t imagine that a philosophy with hundreds if not thousands of aspects to it, would be completely without merit, even if the whole is flawed.

MargotRobbie,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

It is in my very unbiased opinion that is totally not a promotion (as that would be against strike rules) that everybody should see this movie.

Multiple times.

dangblingus,

Someone tell me gf that I’m a normal guy with normal values and stable emotions please. She doesn’t believe me.

MargotRobbie,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

I believe you!

MiddleWeigh,
@MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

Was looking for you here lol

MargotRobbie,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

Ping me next time. 💟

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