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matthieu_xyz

@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr

Main account -> matthieu_xyz@firefish.social

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Defederation, Threads and You

A lot of us are pretty new to the fediverse and we've arrived just in time to grapple with what is easily the biggest federation/defederation controversy ever to hit it. I've put this thread together to hopefully help communicate some of the more complex ideas that we're trying to get our heads around....

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@fediverse
@vaguerant
@PabloDiscobar
If I install Threads I need to signup. To signup I need to sign their ToS and give up all my rights. Then I need to install an app that will spy on my phone and send them a ton of info about me. And private info, not just the content of what I post. And they can resell and datamine that info because I gave them the right to do it.

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@matthieu_xyz @fediverse @vaguerant @PabloDiscobar
If I use mastodon. I don't need to signup or install anything. I can just get the content for free. They get minimal info about me (less metadata than in an email even!!) and I gave them no authorization to datamine anything! I'm also free from their terrible algorithm. It's like all good content in my inbox at no cost.

(And OP is right. Posting from mastodon is a pain in the ass)

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@fediverse @PabloDiscobar @vaguerant
This is not how federation works. You only get the content from the people you follow. If you run a single user instance and you follow 5 people you only get the content from 5 people. If they're all in the same server it can even be grouped as a single request to the shared inbox.

Meta can have 100M, 1B, 5B users it change nothing for rest of us. Unless one of the local users really want to follow a million of accounts.

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@fediverse @Perfide @MoogleMaestro
The staff of automatic have confirmed multiple times on Twitter and Mastodon that they're working on this for both Tumblr and wordpress. And many people offered their help, including the co-inventor of ActivityPub.

This IS happening. I don't know when, but it's coming.

"Antiwoke" magazin on kbin.social posting bullshit like "how to end Wokeness" and "Time to reject the extrem trans lobby harming our society" How to report ? he is the moderator of that magazin. (calckey.social)

@ernest how do I report a Magazin on kbin.social ? There is a usere called "ps" who is posting to his own "antiwoke" Magazin on kbin.social. Please remove this and dont give them a chance to etablish them self on kbin.social. When I report his stuff it will go to him because he is the moderator of the magazin? Seems like a...

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@kbinMeta
@10A
Considering the issue about tankies on some lemmy instances, I think we understand how much left is too far left. And what you describe as "woke" isn’t it.

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@zenithseeker
@nostupidquestions
ActivityPub have supports for multiple type of objects, and actions on those objects. Like liking (or upvoting) a post.

But beside that, it’s just about the same. You can absolutely build a functioning bridge that would translate emails into ActivityPub and then subscribe to it from Lemmy instance. There are a lot of bridges (XMPP, Twitter mirrors, Nostr, etc.)

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@nostupidquestions
@zenithseeker

ActivityPub have supports for multiple type of objects, and actions on those objects. Like liking (or upvoting) a post.

But beside that, it’s just about the same. You can absolutely build a functioning bridge that would translate emails into ActivityPub and then subscribe to it from Lemmy instance. There are a lot of bridges (XMPP, Twitter mirrors, Nostr, etc.)

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@MicroWave
There is a huge bot issue right now (started 3 days ago). All the numbers are worthless.

It’s a known issue, all admins should add captcha to the subscription page, delete the bots and re-compute the actual number of users. Unless we do that, we won’t have a correct number.

We can still look at the Monthly Active Users. Bots don’t post (yet)

L'arrivée prochaine de Meta sur le fediverse, vous en pensez quoi ? French

Je n'ai pas d'avis bien arrêté sur la question, d'autant que les infos dont on dispose sont pour la plupart basées sur des rumeurs. J'oscille entre curiosité (un peu), vigilance (beaucoup), hostilité (idem) Bon, ça ne m'empêchera pas de quitter Facebook d'ici la fin de l'année (comme j'ai quitté Twitter le 31 décembre...

matthieu_xyz,
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@gumchain @Bilbo_Hobbit
Pour moi l’intérêt principal, c’est d’esquiver les loi anti-monopoles et de se préparer à l’EU Digital Markets Act qui impose "l’interopérabilité" aux géants du numérique. On parle surtout des chats instantannés, mais ça pourrait aussi concerner les réseaux sociaux.

L’autre intérêt c’est que les réseaux sociaux ont une date d’expiration. Facebook se fait ringardiser par insta qui se fait ringardiser par tiktok, donc c’est normal d’expérimenter de nouvelles choses

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@gumchain @Bilbo_Hobbit
Enfin, c’est aussi un moyen de récupérer les 300M utilisateurs de Twitter (les 1.4M d’utilisateurs de mastodon ça les intéresse probablement pas).

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@Bilbo_Hobbit @Citronnier @gumchain
Ça, j’y crois beaucoup moins. De 1, je vois pas en quoi ça les intéresse de miner des données sur 1.4M d’utilisateurs quand ils ont 2Md sur insta et 300M potentiels utilisateurs sur Twitter.

Et de 2, le EEE ça marche souvent pas. Microsoft (qui a inventé le concept avant de complètement l’abandonner) l’a testé avec IE, Word et même Java et globalement c’est que des échecs.

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@Bilbo_Hobbit @Citronnier @gumchain
Les gens aiment citer gmail (~15% du réseau email) qui rend la vie un peu difficile aux boite auto-hébergés, mais on est encore loin du monopole et la disparition du mail. Et XMPP qui a quasi-disparu, mais pas forcément à cause de Google talk, mais aussi parce que le format est vieux, n’a pas évolué et que d’autres alternatives on plus la cote (matrix).

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@cjerrington @stux
I wonder how crossposting is working/going to work. Is it going to be like a copy with a different comment section for each community or like a single thread present in multiple communities with unified comment section.

If the comment sections are separated, can be de-duplicate posts and unify comment sections using something like a multireddit.

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@thegiddystitcher @RedirectedPotato
Another con: You become an admin/moderator and have to keep up to date with the latest bad servers to defederate from and you’ll have to deal with all kind of bad posts yourself instead of relying on a moderation team.

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@2014MU69 @MicroWave
Lemmy’s first big bot campaign, yay.

Bots only target successful platforms and mastodon has survived many bot campaigns, so I’m not too worried by this. But let’s give a hug to our admins. When all those accounts start spamming, they’ll need to do a lot of mitigation. Especially if the bots come from many different domains. (and also because lemmy moderation tools are not great)

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@MicroWave
Yes, when your server is getting swarmed in spam, you first fediblock (or at least limit, when limit is supported like on mastodon).

Then you ask the admin of the instance what’s going on. You can also help them clean up the bots.

Then you can federate again once you’re 100% sure the bots are gone.

When the number of bots is high compared to the number of users, that’s even more reasons to block fast

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@smallpatatas
I don’t understand why you need to "convince" anyone. If you want to block Meta you can just block Meta or join an instance that blocks Meta, there is no need to collectively defederate.

If your instance’s admin has enabled SECURE_FETCH and you block Meta’s domain (even as a simple user) you are effectively isolated from meta, even boosting your posts can’t expose them to Meta (thanks to SECURE_FETCH).

This can be a personal decision it doesn’t have to be collective.

Just found out that DuckDuckGo can be used to search Fediverse sites easily.

If you didn't know, on DuckDuckGo you can search for posts or magazines with site:kbin.social just like you would with Reddit. The same applies to any other Fediverse site like Kbin, Lemmy, Mastodon, etc.. I was really frustrated because it seems like Google was intentionally suppressing them....

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@slicedcheesegremlin
Mastodon users have the option to opt-out of search engines indexing by adding tags to their post hat are readable by web crawlers.

So you might not find everything from mastodon, but for a reddit-like it makes sense to be indexed.

matthieu_xyz,
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matthieu_xyz,
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@Boingbong
Mastodon can do that. Lemmy not at the moment. But it’s a very needed features.

And hopefully not just users, but the transfer of an entire community should theoretically be possible. Like mods of !A decided to migrate the community to !A and all subscribers to the community are transferred. It is possible in principle

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@Boingbong
Mastodon can do that. Lemmy not at the moment. But it’s a very needed features.

And hopefully not just users, but the transfer of an entire community should theoretically be possible. Like mods of !A decided to migrate the community to !A and all subscribers to the community are transferred. It is possible in principle

matthieu_xyz, to chat French
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

Angry upvote across the fediverse

@chat

So, I was experimenting a bit with inter connectivity from different ActivityPub softwares. And turns out that emoji-reaction on calckey (a microblog software that is NOT mastodon) is converted to an upvote.

So I can literally angry upvote posts on lemmy! That’s pretty cool.

Edit: on another note, posts with multiple pictures don’t federate very well with lemmy. Edit does work though

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@Eggyhead
What I love with this twitter/4chan/reddit example is that among others Wordpress, Tumblr and instagram are working on implementing ActivityPub.

There is a very real possible future where a Tumblr user will reblog a wordpress article and an instagramer will see it and reply to it.

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@programming
@WatTyler
There is a demo of an algorithmic timeline thingy for mastodon at https://fedifeed.herokuapp.com/ and I really really like how it has a bunch of sliders for fine-tuning. The time penalty in particular is very important.

Would be absolutely awesome to have the same on lemmy.

Edit: Lemmy doesn’t show my picture...

https://static.piaille.fr/media_attachments/files/110/542/349/085/964/483/original/23daedec7cd17277.png

matthieu_xyz,
@matthieu_xyz@piaille.fr avatar

@cedarmesa @c2h6
Diaspora is one of the oldest of the oldest. Much older than mastodon. They’re federated too, but not on the same network.

Mastodon and lemmy uses ActivityPub. (Mastodon used to run on OStatus, but then switched to ActivituPub later) Diaspora uses its own protocol and refuses to ever switch to a most recent one.

Some fediverse services however (friendica and hubzilla which are kinda facebook-like) are using multiple protocols and can federate with both mastodon and diaspora.

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