The jurors are back, Merchan gives scheduling update: We're going to break today around 4pm, a bit earlier.
Necheles begins cross. Manochio's aunt works at the Trump Org as well, says it's a nice place to work.
Q Was Trump the only person who could sign his personal checks?
A Correct
Q All the checks for all his personal expenses were the ones being FedExed? No business expenses?
A Correct
Necheles wants to make a point that Trump was uninvolved in running the business once president.
Q: You testified that you got return envelopes after a few days?
A: Yes
Q: These were bills that needed to be paid promptly, so getting them back promptly was important to you?
A: Yes
Q: Was it the practice for legal expenses to be booked in his personal account ledger?
A: Idk.
Necheles tries to establish Trump Org would always send personal bills & checks to the Trumps while DJT & Ivanka were at the White House. Weisselberg and he weren't really in touch. All was normal.
"Yes."
"Yes."
Takes right hand, moves a lock of hair out of her face.
"Yes."
Necheles: "President Trump was verrrry busy and out of the office, correct?"
Manochio: "Correct."
The junior bookkeeper is off the witness stand now.
Menzies works at HarperCollins book publishing, as SVP of Production and Creative Operations. First time ever testifying in a legal proceeding. She's a custodian of records for HarperCollins, which was compelled to testify pursuant to a subpoena.
Q: How involved are authors in the publication of their books?
A: At HC, authors have a partner who works with them to approve cover designs, etc.
Q: There are multiple points authors have input in their books, including content and cover design?
A: Yes, they are very involved.
We see People's 415: it's the cover of "Think Big" with TRUMP emblazoned across the top, and Trump pointing straight at the viewer with his mouth open as if mid-sentence.
He wrote it with a man named Bill Zanker (not pictured on the cover).
Trump Org junior bookkeeper testifies that the checks that Trump signed (that the state alleges were the reimbursement for Cohen for the hush money payment) were mailed to Keith Schiller to his home address in DC, per instructions from Rhona Graff, as opposed to sending to Trump at the White House. Schiller is the bodyguard who Daniels testified was outside the suite in which trump and she had sex.
Context: Prosecutors want to show that Trump was a micromanager, boasted about being a micromanager and wrote many books extolling the virtue of micromanagement.
McB:
👉🏼Pg 160: "I value loyalty above everything else—more than brains, more than drive, more than energy."
Two pages later: "the reason we have so many loyal people is that 👉🏼we reward loyalty...It has become part of the corporate culture of The Trump Org...people like Weisselberg"
Witness from publisher Harper Collins is reading excerpts of a Trump book talking about how loyal Weisselberg is and how Trump Org prides itself on loyalty. This will undercut the defense that Weisselberg issued the reimbursement checks without telling Trump what he was doing.
@GottaLaff NFL - Remember when in 2017, Trump announced that he was separating himself from his businesses and turning them over to his sons to run? Good times!
"At the time, I recall it rattling RNC leadership," Westerhout says, confirming that there were conversations about how to replace him as a candidate "if it came to that."
After the election, Westerhout says she worked out of Trump Tower, helping the "president-elect" coordinate cabinet interviews and other matters, even though she lived full-time in DC still.
Westerhout says she got a nickname in the media—"the greeter girl"—for her role scheduling high level meetings.
Mangold asks about Rhona Graff, with whom Westerhout worked between the election and inauguration.
"We worked seamlessly together," says Westerhout.
Q: Do you know someone by the name of Michael Cohen?
A: Yes, he was the president's former lawyer.
Q: How do you know him?
A: He was around...in Trump Tower.
At some point, my boss came to me and said do you have any interest in sitting outside of the Oval Office, Westerhout says, and she thought it would be a cool experience.
Titles were not discussed yet, but she said yes.
"Yes, I do!" she recalls responding, with a chipper laugh. "That seems like a really cool job."
"Trump entered the hall at 2:14. He raised his fist and walked into the courtroom without answering 'why is Rick Scott here and not your wife' and 'why don't you want Karen McDougal to testify'"
Westerhout says she sat in the "outer Oval Office," and points out on the floor plan where her desk was—it's just about as close as you could get to the Oval Office w/o being in Oval Office.
Also in the outer Oval: Hope Hicks, John McEntee, and Keith Schiller.
Dan Scavino was "one of the president's very trusted advisors," he did a lot of Trump's communications and to "get tweets out," says Westerhout.
[Me: FUN FACT: Scavino blocked me on Twitter early on. I'd never engaged w/ him]
"Over the July 4, 2016 weekend, controversy arose when Trump's Twitter account posted an image selected by Scavino of Hillary Clinton with a text in the shape of a Star of David calling her the "Most Corrupt Candidate Ever.""
Q: As Trump's special assistant and executive assistant, was the president your only focus?
A: I tried to have it be my only focus. (she laughs nervously)
Q: Did you have job training or orientation?
A: Not formally, no, she says she observed Hicks, Scavino, and others to learn
His social media presence? The way he interacted with his family? Yes and yes.
Back to his work habits. Westerhout says he preferred speaking with people in person, or on the phone. He took "a lot" of phone calls in the day, starting as early as 6am and late into the night.
Q: Did Mr Trump use a computer?
A: Not to my knowledge.
Q: Did Mr Trump have an email account?
A: Not to my knowledge.
She says Trump liked hard-copy documents, and liked to read, in fact his job in 2017 required quite a lot of it.
Westerhout says Trump wanted to keep the Resolute Desk "pristine," and only for meetings, so he would do a lot of his reading and other work in the "dining room," just off the Oval Office.
43/ I'm back. It was a long showing, apparently a pretty good one, so who knows.🤞🏼
Catching up, via Phang:
MANGOLD: Signature practices, did he use an automated signature or sign by himself? WESTERHOUT: he signed by himself
MANGOLD: particular type of pen? WESTERHOUT: sharpies or pentel felt tip
MANGOLD: Did he typically read things before signing them? WESTERHOUT: “Um, y-yes”
MANGOLD: Did mr. trump use social media while he was in the white house? WESTERHOUT: He did yes. Primarily Twitter, now called X
MANGOLD: Did mr. trump post tweets himself using that twitter handle? WESTERHOUT: He did yes.
MANGOLD: Did he post things himself? WESTERHOUT: Yes
MANGOLD: Did anyone else have access to ealdonaldtrump in 2017? WESTERHOUT: My understanding is that Dan Scavino had access. MANGOLD: Did you ever see Mr. Scavino post a tweet without mr. trump’s approval? WESTERHOUT: I didn’t see the president or dan post every single tweet.
WESTERHOUT: If Dan [Scavino] wasn't available or around, the president would call me in and dictate a tweet to me, and then I would go back to my computer and type it up and print it out, and give it back to him so he could go over it.
“[Trump] liked to use exclamation points”
MANGOLD: Did he have particular preferences to his posts? WESTERHOUT: Certain words he liked to capitalize including "Country", he liked to use dots for a comma
Q: How frequently were you in touch with Trump Org A: Rhona and I spoke at least weekly sometimes daily at beginning of 2017. But that drifted off as I got into role. I was an intermediary when Trump had questions for Trump Org employees and vice versa. Rhona and i coordinated on his travel schedule, golf schedule, personal mail, the first family’s schedule, his calendar, his contacts.
Westerhout confirms Trump's contacts list, including Allen Weisselberg, David Pecker, and Michael Cohen, and...Jeanine Pirro.👈🏼
Westerhout testifies about a 2/5/17 email to Michael Cohen confirming a meeting between Cohen and Trump and asking for the kind of details necessary for admitting a guest to the White House. Westerhout does not specifically recall seeing Cohen when he came, but she agrees the meeting happened.
PEOPLE’S EXHIBIT 319 TEXT MESSAGE BETWEEN HOPE HICKS AND WESTERHOUT WESTERHOUT TEXT TO HICKS: “Hey the president wants to know if you called David pecker again?”
MANGOLD: What is your understanding of how Mr. trump’s personal expenses were handled in 2017? WESTERHOUT: it is my understanding they were handled by checks that were sent from the trump organization to Keith Schiller, and then sent to me for the president to sign.
MANGOLD: what did you do when you recived the checks? WESTERHOUT: The checks came in a fed ex envelope, so i opened the envelope and inside is a manilla folder with a stack of checks, and i brought the folder in for him to sign.
MANGOLD: Anything other than checks? WESTERHOUT: I didn’t really dig around in the folder, but there were invoices attached to the check sometimes
MANGOLD: Did you ever see trump sign check WESTERHOUT: Yes sometimes
MANGOLD: Did mr. Trump sign checks by hand? WESTERHOUT: Yes
MANGOLD: What happened after mr. trump signed the checks WESTERHOUT: He would give it back to me and i would put it in a prelabeled return envelope and send it back to trump org.
👉🏼Westerhout talks about how Trump would approve things as minor as a golf membership while he was in the Oval Office.
MANGOLD: trump’s reaction to stormy daniels story? WESTERHOUT: “I remember he was very upset by it.”
MANGOLD: Do you recall if mr. trump spoke to michael cohen around the time the story came out WESTERHOUT: I believe they spoke around that time yes
MANGOLD: Did you interact with mrs trump WESTERHOUT: I did, yes. WESTERHOUT: “He was my boss but she was definitely the one in charge”
How would you describe Trump and Melania's relationship?
It was one of mutual respect, he cared about her opinion, 👉🏼and there was no one else who could put him in his place. 👉🏼He was my boss, but she was in charge. Their relationship was really special, they laughed a lot.
She had said some things she wasn't supposed to during what she believed to be an off-the-record dinner with a reporter, she says.
She wipes her tears. She seems genuinely regretful about the whole episode.
She wrote a book about it, she says, her voice shakey and faultering, and we see the cover now displayed:
Off the Record: My Dream Job at the White House, How I Lost It, and What I Learned
She thought it was important to share with the American people that the man that I got to know. I don't think he was treated fairly, and I wanted to tell that story she says, through more tears.
Since publication, Westerhout says she spoke to Trump at a fundraiser in Orange County, but says that she did not discuss this case.
Back to the 2016 nomination, the transition, and the Access Hollywood tape.
Q: You testifed that it rattled the RNC leadership, and there were a couple days of consternation, but that happened all the time?
A: Yes.
Q: When Trump was running, there was always some event when—Necheles claps her hands and wipes them clean—there was total consternation.
She is familiar, friendly with Westerhout. Much friendlier than she was with Daniels, (of course).
Necheles reminds Westerhout of Trump's apology for "locker talk," and that he said he would see everyone at debates and Westerhout laughs, as if she remembers it fondly.👈🏼
The Access Hollywood tape "blew over in a couple days," and after that Trump won the election right?
A: Yes.
The clock is ticking, we have 9 minutes left according to Merchan, and Merchan is always on time, if not early.
Necheles talks fast, getting more questions in. It was a busy time? Yes. You were called "the greeter girl," correct? Yes. Wasn't it a little belittling? Yeah.
I tried not to let it get to me, but people said I was unqualified, Westerhout says about the "greeter girl" nickname.
Trump was also transitioning his companies into a trust, Necheles asks, but Westerhout says, not to her knowledge. She wasn't involved in the business side.
Westerhout says Trump only had two and a half months to transition from running the Trump Organization to becoming president. Necheles keeps portraying it as a hectic, busy time, with lots of distractions.
🤦🏻♀️It was amazing working with Trump, she says, smiling. I think—I—I hadn't spent any time with him, I don't know if anyone should feel like they deserve they should be in the West Wing, but Trump always made me feel like I belonged, especially in a place with a lot of older men.🤢
He had a close relationship with his children, and a lovely relationship with his wife? Yes, definitely, Westerhout says.
Westerhout paints a touching scene: Trump would be on the phone w/ his wife, & would tell her to come to the window in the residence, where she could look across and see Trump in the Oval Office. He would also call his wife to tell her he's boarding AF1, though he didn't have to
We end with an image of Trump the family man from Westerhout's testimony, which couldn't be further from this morning's depiction of Trump the philanderer and bully of Daniels' testimony.
Merchan says we'll take a 10 minute break. When we return, I assume Blanche will raise the issues he alluded to at lunch regarding (1) Renewed mistrial motion, (2) blocking McDougal's testimony, and (3) a gag order matter.
After she broke down crying remembering her “youthful indiscretio" Necheles gently reminded her, as x-exam opened, that she was very young, that she made a mistake, and that Trump had forgiven her
I’m not saying the grace Necheles showed Westerhout, who was 28 when she left WH, was undeserved. But boy does it stand in marked contrast to her treatment of then-27-yr-old whose sexual encounter w Trump so distressed her that her hands shook as she put her shoes back on
Merchan says we'll take 10, then pick it back up with Mr. Blanche.
As Trump walks out, a member of the public says something to Trump. "Guys, we're not doing that," a court officers scolds them. After the parties leave, the officer takes out the 2 men who spoke to Trump.
At 4:09 p.m., Trump and co. walk back in, Merchan walks back in as well, almost simultaneously.
👇🏼
👉🏼NEWS: The People no longer intend to call Karen McDougal to testify.👈🏼
Blanche asks that Trump be allowed to respond to Daniels' testimony, bc of all the reporting about it, which tells completely different story than Trump's. This will tie into mistrial motion, he says.
Daniels was on a polit TV show w "political commentators" last night, Blanche says & Trump can't say this never happened, this is never true, to this "new version of events" which deals with a very diff issue than sexual event that took place in 2006.
There are voters out there, asking questions, but Trump can't say anything, Blanche says. There are numberous articles about it in the news, and Daniels' testimony will be a feature on shows today, and it "cannot be" that he can't respond to it, says Blanche.
It's much different than the same story that's been going around for several years, so Blanche asks that Trump be released from the gag order.
Conroy up now: It seems the other side lives in almost an alternate reality.
Conroy wants to look back at why the order was an issue in the first place, and says that it has been somewhat successful thus far.
This is where facts are brought out, and if someone wants to respond to something someone 👉🏼said in this room, it should happen in this room, not out there, Conroy says.
We have been told repeatedly by witnesses—even in the courtroom, even on the stand—about their fear, Conroy says. Even with a witness today, there was something with her home address on it, and you could see the fear in her eyes.
He does it selfishly with no concern about the safety of the people he's attacking, and unfortunately we have seen the results, Conroy says.
Conroy brings up the NYPD's explosion in threat cases about the number of threats against the members of the DA's office and their families. I had a conversation with a
👉🏼custodial witness last night concerned about their safety, Conroy says.👈🏼
Modifying this gag order now in the middle of trial would signal to future witnesses that they could be at risk as well, says Conroy.
The gag order is not just designed to protect the witness until they walkoff the stand, or to protect the proceedings part of the way, Conroy says.
Modifying the gag order now is for Trump to attack Daniels—that's what he wants to do,👉🏼let's not pretend he wants to engage in high-minded discourse, 👈🏼Conroy says.
A completely different set of events, Merchan repeats, What exactly are you referring to?
For example, transcript pg 2610, Blanche cites, "at first I was just startled, jump-scare...room spin in slow motion...felt the blood leave my hands and my feet."
What she had previously said, Blanche says, hinting that he's now getting to the mistrial motion, was "ugh, here we go, we started kissing, I hope he doesn't try to pay me."
👉🏼Merchan: Help me understand how it's different.
Blanche: One is about consent, and one is not.
Merchan wants to take the issues one-by-one so we stay on the gag order
👉🏼It's interesting what Mr Conroy said, bc I wrote the same thing from the book down, Merchan says. My concern is protecting the integrity of these proceedings as a whole
Other witnesses, incl but not only Michael Cohen, will see your client doing whatever he intends to do, Merchan says. 👉🏼I can't take your word for it that this is going to be low key, this is going to be a response, bc that's not the track record
These were very real, very threatening attacks on witnesses, so 👉🏼I can't take your word for it, Merchan says, while saying he is still concerned by some witnesses using the gag order as a sword, not a shield.
Blanche starts by saying he will put something together over the weekend explaining why this trial cannot go forward in light of Daniels' testimony.
Blanche cites Merchan's finding that Daniels' testimony not only completes the narrative of events, but is also probative of the defendant's intent, but says he alerted the court and the government of Daniels' contradicting previous claims.
Blanche says this new story is about how "this completely made up encounter with President Trump may have been nonconsensual," which they learned from the documentary, at which point they previously objected. Prosecution and court promised not to get into the details, then did.
Questions about whether the encounter brought up Daniels' difficult childhood, Daniels spanking Trump, it almost defies belief that we're here about a records case and the government is asking questions about an incident that happened in 2006, that we don't even believe happened
Blanche continues, This is extremely prejudicial testimony. This is not a case about sex. This is not about whether that encounter took place or didn't take place. Whether it happened or not has nothing to do with the charges in this case.
Blanche mentions, for example, the prosecution asking about Daniels supposedly spanking Trump with a magazine. And he says they elicited too much detail about the hotel suite -- what the inside of the bathroom in Trump's suite looked like, for example.
And the story Daniels told on the stand is not the story that Rodriguez, Howard, and Cohen were told back when the NDA was formed. So it's not relevant, Blanche insists.
Blanche reads more of Daniels' testimony, calling it "extremely prejudicial" again, and testimony that has nothing to do with the motive of entering the NDA.
Klasfeld:
Blanche recites the passage of the transcript where Daniels quoted Trump trying to talk her into sex by telling her "[i]f you ever want to get out of that trailer park."
She talked about power imbalance, Blanche says, but none of that goes to motive or intent because that's not what she was saying at the time of the NDA.
We didn't know these q's were coming, Blanche cont's. We had a sense from documentary that she was changing her story, & we alerted the court, but we were hearing this for 1st time.
He's repeating himself, but Merchan lets him continue.
"There was an objection, and it was sustained," Merchan cuts in. "In fact after many of these anecdotes, there was an objection and it was sustained."
But it was still said, Blanche pleads, that's why this testimony is so dangerous, so prejudicial.
The claim of ambush is just nonsense, says Steinglass. The claim of changing the story is also extraordinarily untrue. As any witness telling a story, there are details in one form and not in another form. And anyway, the defense has had access to all of this.
Moving on to the mistrial motion, Steinglass says, it has always been their contention that the details of the two-hour convo that Daniels and Trump had in the hotel suite corroborate her account that a) the fact that the sex happens (which increases motivation to silence her)...
These are the details that make her account more credible, and the defense has gone to great length to discredit her, Steinglass says with some force, some oomph in his voice.
They're trying to have their cake and eat it too. They're trying to discredit Daniels that her story is false, then preclude the prosecution from eliciting the details that would corroborate her story, Steinglass says.
Prosecutor: The claim of ambush is nonsense. OK there were details omitted from InTouch, but in Anderson Cooper. This is not a change of story. Ms. Necheles' thorough but misleading cross tested it. That the sex happened increases the motivation to silence her
Necheles was cherry-picking the details she thought were inconsistent and omitting the details that were consistent, Steinglass says. The overarching point here is the details are the tools the jury needs to assess her credibility.
👉🏼Those messy details were Trump's motive to silence this woman in 2016, less than a month before the election👈🏼, says Steinglass. The fact that the testimony is prejudicial and messy, according to Blanche, that's exactly why Trump tried to prevent the American ppl from hearing it.
There were lots of details about a lot of things, but not about the actual encounter. By Steinglass counts, there were only 8 questions about it.
There are other details I don't want to put on the record, but I'm happy to put in a sealed record the very salacious details we omitted out of a desire not to embarrass the defendant, Steinglass says.
Steinglass says he's happy to make a sealed record of more salacious details that are "highly corroborate," yet not put into the record, so as to "avoid embarrassing the defendant."
Prosecutor: We went out of our way to avoid some of the salacious details, to not embarrass the defendant with the details of the sexual act. At one point she was asked did you feel anything difference. She was going to say, I felt the skin of a 60 year old man
Prosecutor: We could put in an exparte submission of more embarrassing details we omitted, to not embarrass the defendant. Ms McDouglas was on our witness list but we never said we intended to call her
Please force Steinglass to make this a judicial record, Todd Blanche. I beg of you.
Adam Klasfeld:
Steinglass says he's happy to make a sealed record of more salacious details that are "highly corroborative," yet not put into the record, so as to "avoid embarrassing the defendant."
Merchan notes that Blanche made that remark in opening statement, leaving a controversy for the jury about whom to believe.
McB:
Your denial puts the jury in a decision of choosing who they believe: Donald Trump or Stormy Daniels. Prosecution doesn't have to prove a sexual encounter occured, they have a right to rehabilitate Daniels' credibility, which was immediately attacked in Blanches opening statement
On the blacking out comment, for some reason, I don't know why, you went into it ad nauseam on cross-examination, Merchan says, drilling it into the jury's ears over and over.
Bower:
What's more, the witness immediately said that there was no coercive force and that she didn't feel threatened. And Necheles elicited that same testimony over and over again on cross, he observes.
Merchan notes that, at a sidebar conference, prosecutors wanted to bring in a 2019 documentary about Roger Ailes called "Bombshell," addressing the sexual harassment scandal.
The judge immediately ruled he wouldn't let that in.
I agree the detail about the condom should not have come out, Justice Merchan says. But "for the life of me" I don't know why Ms. Necheles didn't object.
Yikes.
What's more, the witness immediately said that there was no coercive force and that she didn't feel threatened. And Necheles elicited that same testimony over and over again on cross, he observes.
@GottaLaff Thank you! Took me all day to catch up because I was insanely busy myself today, so I have a renewed appreciation for you taking the time to post all these threads!
Literally sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for this. I was certain, but still... :ablobcathappypaws:
And I think I even followed the arguments of why that stuff was allowed in this kind of trial. Laffy is doing a service putting this stuff out in a format that's easier to digest.
@GottaLaffwhew I get nervous every time. He’s so good at slipping out of getting consequences for his actions, I keep getting afraid that he’ll weasel his way out of all of them. I’m glad Judge Merchan is finding these mistrial motions as deniable (don’t want to unconsciously paint the Judge as biased).
Also glad the gag order stays in place. Lifting that would have been extremely dangerous. If he wants to “set the record (not) straight”, he can be put on the stand and under oath.
@GottaLaff and also, as everyone else says, thank you so very much for doing this. An aggregation of the info (with a bit of added humor 😉) is very nice, makes it so much easier to follow
@GottaLaff NFL "The people demand to see the evidence!"
These yahoos still letting the defendant call the shots is like - all the lolz and i can't even!
@GottaLaff NFL
The prosecution's coup de grace !
101/ McB: There are other details I don't want to put on the record, but I'm happy to put in a sealed record the very salacious details we omitted out of a desire not to embarrass the defendant, Steinglass says.
NFL... for an encounter that supposedly, per trump, never happened.. detail is important.. she described his suite... that's detail that says I was there. Not.. it never happened.
@GottaLaff NFL - Her ability to tell the story, and the effect it would have had on the campaign, is important regardless of its veracity. She literally does not need to have been honest for this story becoming public to be a campaign impacting event, and for this scheme to therefore be a campaign contribution.
@GottaLaff NFL - Daniels' story was always that the encounter was one in which her consent was strictly optional. She said it was consensual, but her description always alluded to the fact that she didn't have a choice in the matter.
I get the feeling this young lady is trying to make amends from her past indiscretion of talking about trumps kids.. the incident that got her fired... . and this is some payback...
@GottaLaff many things the president and people read do not include otherside stuff soul side spirit side machine side jerking the world around info to deal with go around watch out for stop and punish since many do lots criminal negatives etc so most are not getting the whole truth in most u ever read
@GottaLaff these crimes donald is in court for now and has more cases coming are only some-even though many of of many more crimes he has done over the yrs
"In December 2020, after Trump lost the election Scavino told Jenna Ellis that Trump would refuse to leave office, as Ellis told Georgia prosecutors nearly three years later when she pleaded guilty in the Georgia election racketeering prosecution. Ellis recalled: "And he said to me, you know, in a kind of excited tone, ‘Well, we don’t care, and we’re not going to leave. The boss is not going to leave under any circumstances. We are just going to stay in power."[
@GottaLaff NFL
Some filler here for the youngs -- in the 70's Donald wanted be be in the mafia soooooo baaaaaad. He ran around NYC acting all tough, but the bosses wouldn't let him in. They used him, but wouldn't let him in, because...he wasn't trustworthy enough! They knew he'd turn on them in a heartbeat.
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