An important distinction is slowly being uncovered about the definition of the term "fediverse." Who is it that gets to decide what this place is? How are we being represented? These are not easy questions to answer and if we don't do a better job describing ourselves, then the job will get done for us by people who don't understand the underlying values we hold. #fediverse#meta#threads
Eine wichtige Unterscheidung über die Definition des Begriffs "Fediversum" wird langsam deutlich. Wer entscheidet, was dieser Ort ist? Wie werden wir repräsentiert? Diese Fragen sind nicht leicht zu beantworten, und wenn wir es nicht schaffen, uns selbst besser zu beschreiben, dann wird diese Aufgabe von Leuten übernommen, die unsere grundlegenden Werte nicht verstehen. #fediversum#meta#threads
if corporations run the fediverse then it will be just another corporate social media platform.
corporations dont coexist with communities- they exploit them as resources.
first theyll get enough people using the corporate side, increase barriers between the corporate side and demand compliance with THEM, theyll separate, using fedi only to get more people.
fedi will suffer from decrease in use and funding. thats what corporate "fedi" guarantees.
@evan@Gargron seems @chrismessina was the first to discover it many months ago in the resources of the Android app quite awhile ago. I would assume we could just ask some of the Threads devs for more information, maybe @jessel or @wongmjane would be willing to share any information about where this icon comes from?
@liaizon Funny enough, it was a multiple invention.
We, I and @eudaimon, independently, without knowing about each other at all, made the same logo. Mine had different chirality though, and had couple of other details like UN-esque laurel wreath (because we're federation :).
After we showed each other our results, we agreed that his version is simpler and more concise, and it will kinda be attributed to both of us.
@drq@eudaimon@evan@Gargron@chrismessina super interesting to hear some backstory! do you happen to have a link to your original version? just to keep in the vault of history
@liaizon A lot of people think that the pentacle was chosen because of its occult or satanic connotations. And while it would be in Fediverse's rebellious spirit, this was not the case.
My idea was to illustrate the structure of the network. There must be multiple nodes (multiple servers). There must be nothing in the middle (no center). The connections can cross each other, but must never follow the same path twice. No connection must be on top of all of them.
It can't be done with two nodes, because it's just a line and in the middle of the line, there's line. It can be done with triangle, but it's boring. It can not be done with four nodes, because their connection cross in the middle.
So, five nodes it is. Thus, a pentacle.
Also, a pentacle is a classic symbol for a star. And I always wanted to associate the Fediverse with the stars and space in public consciousness.
What's plural of "a fedi node"? "a constellation".
It was first uploaded, AFAIK, in Wiki Commons by Eukobos (I think it's Eudaimon too), dedicated to the #PublicDomain through #CC0#CCzero.
It was June 2018.
No one submitted other proposals so it became the accepted logo of the #Fediverse. Variations from other users based on the same logo also came out later.
@soop it instantly has more reach then everything that we do cause of instragram and facebook's size. so no I think we shouldn't dare underestimate the impact that an icon such as this in their interface might have
@liaizon seeing the Meta one in the context of an indicator coming from an instance-local POV instead of the grand overview POV of the commonly used one is making more sense to me now, so I tried to reconcile the two of them to see how it would work, but I am not very good at that as you can see from the results :)
@LGS there are a few ways to answer this question. First we might start by defining the terms.
By standalone website I assume you mean a "static" website?
A static website consists of an .html file and optionally a .css file and maybe some images stored on a server that is accessible through the https protocol. This is a "one way" medium. One person has the ability to change the .html document and then everyone else has the ability to read the document in a web browser.
@LGS
You could say that the main difference a fediverse instance has from a static website is interaction between two or more peers. Some way to signal between one website and another website that "something" has happened.
If you are asking me if I think its morally ethical to sell something that is being used by others without their consent I would say certainly not.
I thought fediverse was short for federated server multiverse or some such. I can't remember exactly. Not sure if the symbol is copyrighted or trademarked. If it is, then somebody has to give permission for corporate owned servers to use it.
That's great! I guess the question still remains, though, if bad actors like Meta are hiding material they don't want to see, using algorithms and all that stuff that is the exact opposite of what the fediverse is supposed to be, who can call that out?
By definition, ActivityPub is a protocol to add interoperability, in a social network way, to disconnected platforms. So, as long as they federate using AP, then it's fine. Consider the non-accessible content as "private".
There are #fediverse software with a "This instance/server only" feature. I think every fork of Mastodon software have that feature, only the mainline Mastodon doesn't have it. Other Fediverse software like Hubzilla, Friendica, the Misskey forks, the Pleroma forks, I think even Pixelfed, all have it.
Think of Threads content not viewable as "This instance only" type of post.
If it is wrong for Threads to do that, then one could argue that it is also wrong for other Fediverse software and forks to have an instance-only privacy feature.
For me, that's fine. As long as they federate. Maybe a third or two of their userbase will turn the feature on. That's good enough. 😉
I guess I'm not techie enough, but if they're censoring posts about, say, pixelfed, that I posted, but let my cat videos through, it would seem I didn't intend the pixelfed post to be local only. What am I missing here?
@shekinahcancook That's correct. However, in their instance, they don't want any mention of “Pixelfed”, so there's that. It is no different from all other non-Threads servers/instances where they “fediblock” certain keywords (and accounts) without checking the context.
It still comes down to, “their instance/server, their rules”. As long as they federate, that's good. Any filters or “fediblock” they add for their instance, that's their rules. Just like any other fediverse instance are doing already before Threads came.
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Threads or Meta. ^_^
@liaizon
I don't understand why the fediverse or Mastodon, etc have Logos. There is no official E-Mail Logo, FTP, etc.
It should just get a boring name like "Social Network". Thrn you just ask people "what's your social network tag?" and they say "it's @cooldude on X". Then you can just reply, Oh that's not a social network tag, that's not even connected to the social network standard.
Not saying that makes it a "logo", but it sort of functions as one, and is useful in some contexts, like quickly scanning a page to find contact information.
@stefan@EcoLogicExplorer I think symbols not logos are really what we are talking about here. Here in Berlin these (☎ ✆) phone symbols are used everywhere. Work vehicles often have a phone number on the side that begins with ☎555-222-3432 etc though the government is now using WhatsApp here way more then "real" phone numbers and they usually have the WhatsApp logo next to it. Its on all the trash cans in the subway here.
@liaizon The second symbol would be much better for Open fediverse. It shows connections, has a O in its center that can be understood as a world and it is also minimalist. You can tell they paid someone who knows how to do his job.
The first icon isn't bad, but it is generic. It isn't as simple, nothing suggest that it is open, a world or universe. It could work as an Internet of things logo o anything else that is connected.
@liaizon Federation is a term used to describe an action or state occurring over the ActivityPub (or AT) protocol. It’s neither a brand nor owned. In app design, devs use different icons to define open-menu and close-menu actions, different symbols for sending emails — envelopes and paper airplanes — and different symbols to chat widgets among other actions. Meta serves users all over the world, and in some of those places, using a pentagram as a UI convention might be offensive.
@bretcarmichael this is an incredibly rude reply. I have been working in the field of federated and open networks for many many years now and having you chime in to explain federation is quite ridiculous
@liaizon I've only ever seen this Threads logo in posts bashing it. It ends up giving it more exposure.
OTOH, a few weeks ago I've seen people here arguing against the top logo, coming up with roundabout reasons to complain about it because it wasn't this-or-that enough (honestly, I'm too much of a cynic to buy it). That just fell right into Meta's lap as a "there's no agreed-upon logo".
That and the constant Mastodon and .social bashing from the inside clearly works to Meta's benefit.
"That just fell right into Meta's lap as a "there's no agreed-upon logo"."
I'm not sure that would have made a difference. My guess is that the reason why they made a new one has very little to do with whether there's an established one already or not and everything to do with branding. They're gonna make an effort to have all the little icons and design elements on their site speak the same design language, because that's the "professional" way to do it.
@frog_reborn@hisham_hm they way the :fediverse: icon works currently it is completely not suited for use at small scales, so we really really need to address this...
I feel like any effect the logo might have on "reshaping the perception of the fediverse" was at best a secondary concern way behind "let's pick something that aligns with our visuals".
But even if not done with direct intent it's still a bit of a cautionary tale about how profit oriented actors several dimensions bigger can possibly even unintentionally warp the whole landscape for the worse simply by way of having different priorities and incentives.
@stefan I appreciate your attempt at trying to reach some understanding. The Wikipedia page is probably the worst contender for describing the fediverse at the moment. I think its something we really really have to tackle soon.
@liaizon Personally, and the way the term was used, since it was first coined, was any software with #OStatus support (later #ActivityPub).
When there were discussions of having a new name, I ran suggestion threads and polls about it, and one suggestion/choice was mycelial, mycelium. I like it so I started using it myself.
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