I recently took an "internet trip" down the bills of rights, #MagnaCarta, etc.
I realized that there is much more to it than is usually taught. It got too much, so I dropped it eventually.
(I think I was trying to track down the first bill that awarded the right to vote 🗳 in #AngloSaxon culture.)
@HistoPol for the cops they were furious about things like Miranda rights. They were victims of an unjust system that picked on them. LEOBORs were around at local levels but at that point civilian review boards were becoming popular--and that REALLY pissed them off.
The John Birch's biggest campaign was "support your local police" in response to CRBs. At the 1972 RNC on Miami Beach the police rioted and covered the island, an island full of old people in tear gas. People demanded CRBs.
What is your opinion on this? "Critics say that the LEOBR makes it impossible to discipline or remove bad officers, such as after they have been convicted of felonies in the courts. Under LEOBR, officers are judged only by other officers. LEOBR prevents the formation of independent review boards that provide independent oversight over police actions."?
@HistoPol@philip_cardella It's ironic that even as police officers oppose increased accountability for the average citizen they investigate, they demand special treatment and greater protections for themselves.
And it's sad that politicians indulge them, creating barriers to holding bad apples accountable for their crimes, enabling lawlessness while claiming to be pro- law and order.
However, ss #MathewCooke rightly analyses in his podcast*, all US institutions were originally built as a #SlaverNation. Unequal justice for different parts of society continue(d) to be the groundwork for the development of the Republic.
Whereas the #UK was (arguably) able to eventually overcome the strongly discriminatory nature...
...of the #MagnaCarta 2), which only applied to barrons and the clergy, the #US despite #Reconstruction and all the Amendments was never able to really overcome systemic racism and plutocratic discrimination. In fact, ever since #CitizensUnitedVsFEC, the pendulum has been swinging in the opposite direction, so far culminating in the overturning of #RoeVsWade.
...#Orwellian#dystopias simultaneously: #1984 and, more pertinent in this context, #AnimalFarm. Seen from this novel's perspective, aspiring to be the One Animal [that] Is more equal Than Others makes perfect sense. It even strongly appeals to the lowest human instincts.
I have long thought that #DefundThePolice doesn’t have any merit, except for anarchists waiting for the breakdown of civil society to loot shops, etc.
...recently begun to think that given the slaver and colonial origins of the police force in the US, it might become necessary to rebuild everything from the ground up. How? I wouldn't know.
Looking at the causes auf #BLM and the current police brutalities against students exercising their #1A on public grounds (sometimes private--different story,) the system might be beyond repair indeed.
...#RomanRepublic, elected officials of one of the 3 branches of government, deserves immunity while in office. Once their term ends, they must be accountable to the fullest extent of the law.
This is what really differentiates a democracy from (absolute) monarchy or Putinesque authoritarianism/tyranny.
Therefore, if there is serous cause that members of the government committed crimes, their immunity must be lifted by their...
...their peers or another branch of government. (Impeachment is clearly not working for the Presidential office, the chief reason being the undemocratic #filibuster.)
So, any any special Law Enforcement Officers' Bill of Rights (#LEBOR, #LEOBR, or #LEOBoR) for the police is undemocratic and should be ruled unconstitutional, including contractual means to circumvent this fact.
It's a manifestation of #AnimalFarm.
@HistoPol@philip_cardella I don't know about unconstitutional, but giving those in power immunity (Trump) or special treatment and privileges (police) certainly isn't required by the Constitution.
And it's eerily similar to the double standards enjoyed by the apparatchiks back in the Soviet Union.
That's why I said, "...should be ruled unconstitutional,..." It might not be, given the fact that the complete institutional setup was meant to protect the WASP landed gentry.
How inadequate the system.of checks and balances has proven to be could be seen by the repeatedly failed attempts to hold rogue office holders to account: #OJohnRogge, #Agnew, #Nixon, #Trump, #Alito,...the systemic failures even have a tendency to grow worse.
"And it's eerily similar to the double standards enjoyed by the apparatchiks back in the Soviet Union."
Yes, absolutely.
And there is yet another similarity: the #fascist movement in #Italy with its #BlackShirts came into existence b/c the #Italian landed gentry and industrialists were afraid of losing their property to the plebs, like their #Russian counterparts in the #OctoberRevolution of 1918.
On the other hand, it is clearly the greed of plutocrats, be it in the form of feudal lords, multinationals (#BigOil, #BigTech, ...-》 #Technofeudalism) that has brought human society to the brink of extinction and caused mass-extinction for thousands of species that were intrusted to us, at least if you belong to any religion having originated in the Middle East.
I couldn't see a link of yours, however, I can pretty much concurr with #YanisVaroufakis' conclusions in his book, #Technofeudalism, though I disagree with some of his historical analysis.
@HistoPol@CarlG, I appreciate what I think the main arguments of the Defund the Police crowd are: take things away from the police that shouldn't be there like health and wellness checks, domestic disputes, traffic stops, nonviolent drug crimes, prostitution, etc and take the money spent on those things and give them to agencies trained to handle these needs.
We'd be better off with this.
Still, I agree, given the origins of American policing, slave society and colonialism, abolish them.
The thing is, and I think the dystopian novel, #LordOfTheFlies by #NobelLaureat#WilliamGolding exemplifies this better than anything, is that the veil of civilized society is so razor-thin, it wouldn't survive more than a vouple of days w/o a "policing" force, protecting the weaker citizens from bullies and looting, etc.
What I'm saying is, it would need to be a virtually instantaneous swap....
...And it would generate a huge pool of disgruntled policemen, possibly a new source of societal instability.
However, crime could be greatly reduced by simply removing the need for a huge part of the population: introducing #UBI and #UBS. People who have "everything" they (basically) need are very much less prone to commit crimes, as losing their freedom becomes a much greater fall in personal quality of life. Less...
...crime, less police 🚔, less power, less controls, less unnecessary searches, less costs for law enforcement and the judiciary, more money for #UBS,...a virtuous circle.
Just to be dure: tons of studies on #UBI in different countries over decades have all shown that it works. It just would need to be implemented...and refinanced (#WealthTax, #WindfallProfitsTax!)
@HistoPol one of the biggest issues with policing, and I'm gonna really piss people off here but it's where the facts take you, fire fighters, is their unions. Because they were fraternal organizations first, and racist AF from the start, and unchecked before the late 1960s on their racism and ideology, these unions need to be replaced altogether.
The entire command structure and organization of both entities are also affected, which, comes from colonial counter-insurgency, not safety @CarlG
I wasn't aware of this. However, 9/11 and all the (increasing) extreme-weather events show that they are indispensable.
During the last decade or so, I have come to the conclusion that labor/trade unions are indispensable to counter robber-baron capitalism/#TechnoFeudalism. Tge right to self-organize is a key element of any democracy. Even if I were a brnign dictator, I wouldn't know where even to start reforming them. 🤔
@HistoPol@philip_cardella@CarlG in Britain, where there are fewer cops to start with, they are more strictly regulated, only 5% have guns and even driving cars fast requires extra specialist training; we have same problem with police "union", a lot of officers are quitting because they think the constabulary is too "woke" (and they see others disciplined for bad behaviour)
Fire and Ambulance services are also struggling with effects of bullying and toxic masculinity (on top of budget cuts)
@vfrmedia@HistoPol@philip_cardella@CarlG eh? Police Scotland retention levels are actually very high. Remember there is not one Police Force across Britain. And figures quoted by the SPF have consistent been proven to be lies.
@Lassielmr@HistoPol@philip_cardella@CarlG I've seen mixed messages about Police Scotland's morale and officer numbers (although as you say many are likely to be SPF's lies, and I was maybe also looking more at roads policing units there (having a special interest in road safety). It wouldn't surprise me officers in Police Scotland are happier than those in England; Scotland's govt does at least put resources into public services to a greater extent than England does these days..
@HistoPol
We absolutely need firefighters, first responders, etc. No one, other than a few anarchists (and many of these are likely paid trolls), wants no public safety entities.
But we need to break these things up and start over from their current forms.
I too have no idea what the end form would look like. I just know the current models are designed to dominate and control, not to serve and protect anything other than rich white men's money.
"But we need to break these things up and start over from their current forms."
Short of a revolution, which historic examples can you give for this to work?
In order for this to work, all old-boy networks would need to be broken up.
I think even reassigning all police(wo)men in a city to other stations wouldn't break up the networks due to social media. And, usually, the (problematic) teamleaders would need to be...
Hm, maybe a double teamlead, always "integrated" with at least one of them BIPoC/Hispanic and possibly man + woman etc., switching "comand" every week or so could be an idea...
@HistoPol so the police got a detective elected to state house. First or second active cop in history elected to a state house.
He immediately got a bill introduced creating the statewide LEOBOR to insulate cops from CRBs.
Maryland passed a similar bill at the same time. I need to explore more how they influenced each other (probably via police fraternal orga that were antecedent to their CBA units that started around then).
@HistoPol while Maryland got rid of their LEOBOR after George Floyd they did so because they had already entrenched it in their CBA contract. In fact, I found in FIU archives the labor union playbook that told unions to do exactly this because there was absolutely no way a court would allow their LEOBOR to persist. Except they did.
And Ron DeSantis just gutted all civil review boards this month while standing behind a support your police sign.
Litigation is a huge issue in the #US. Penalties often are astronomical seen from an international perspective. Also, malfeasance by police officers including #RacialProfiling and l, IMO, #PredictivePolicing seem to be much more frequent, maybe just more reported.
However, my bottom line is that
a) #SystemicRacism will never be overcome w/o abolishing #LEOBR|s. Police officers are nothing but citizens in uniform. They're no animals more...
...that they are moving abroad because of (the #Conservative takeover of) the #SupremeCourt. I'm at least as worried about this #PoliceState development.
@philip_cardella@HistoPol
Between Kent State in ‘70, ratification of the 25th Amendment during a flailing Vietnam, and a violent RNC convention in ‘72, I feel like the Nixon Administration was wilder than people born after then really understand.
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