Watching the bear vs man in forest stories & I remember when our 9-year-old son said some boys at recess offered to play with him if 'he hugged & kissed a girl.'
He replied, "No, that's inappropriate," & told us he didn't mind not being able to play with those boys after all. Later his teacher shared she was happy he stood up to peer pressure.
Y'all—it's never too early to teach boys about consent & boundaries. Have the convo. Then again. And again. Boys will be the boys we teach them to be.
Honestly the wildest part about the men getting offended about women choosing the bear over a man in the forest is they’re outing themselves as the men women wouldn’t want to be alone with in a forest—and they completely lack the self awareness to realize they’ve outed themselves.🤦🏽♂️
Would be comical if it wasn’t so sad and pathetic.
@QasimRashid I don't see how it is indicative of my character to be upset to be painted with such a broad brush. I think we would all see how harmful it is to compare, say, black people to wild dangerous animals. I'm disappointed you can't see it here. Men are people and deserve as much respect as anyone else based on our humanity alone.
@Vorsos Does that include "broad criticism" about other groups as well? Races or sexual identities, maybe? There are certainly broad criticisms levied against those groups all the time.
@wagesj45 My axiom works on valid criticism and lies. An example of each is “so many strange men have been aggressive toward me that I would rather be around a wild bear” and “Mexican rapists are flooding the Texas border.” Non-aggressive men and Mexican asylum seekers can simply continue existing as living proof that the criticism does not apply to them.
Going out of one’s way to say valid broad criticism doesn’t apply to them individually is unhelpful and suspicious. As for broad lies, no one needs to give them more attention, as a debate would imply the lie has validity.
I’m only bothering to explain this because you don’t yet seem completely irredeemable, but you gotta stop using r/MensRights talking points to dig yourself into this #NotAllMen hole. Instead of invalidating women’s feelings by trying to find logical fallacies in their legitimate fears, just be a good man who women can feel safe around. Saying “I take every criticism about the worst men personally” ain’t it.
@Vorsos Maybe consider that you're disregarding men's feelings about being compared broadly to dangerous animals. This isn't valid criticism any more than your "mexican rapists" example. It is just as exclusionary and reactionary. You'd rightfully lambast men who made broad generalizations about women based on their personal intuition. You should hold yourself to the same standard.
You don't have to explain anything to me. I understand. I just think it is hypocritical and insulting.
@wagesj45@QasimRashid The takeaway is less "all men are awful, specifically you," and more "women generally feel safer around bears than men. What does that say about men?"
@wagesj45 "Something about the way I'm behaving is making someone else feel uncomfortable. Maybe I should reflect on what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, and if it really is the source of discomfort, what I can do to change it"
@deirdrebeth@aires I think you need to work on being kind online. I'm perfectly able to comprehend it. I also happen to find it insulting and counterproductive. Both are true.
You are completely missing the point. It’s not about your feelings.
Making it about yourself instead of thinking more deeply about why women feel this way suggests maybe some deeper introspection off social media might be helpful.
Example: You say: “You’d be prettier if you smiled more.” She says: “Fuck off.”.
Only one person in this interaction is deserving of respect and not getting it.
@stepheneb If you call me a dangerous animal, and then conclude that I must be dangerous or abusive for objecting to that, then it is about my feelings.
If someone says "You're a violent menance" and I say "Fuck off" who is deserving of respect?
You are taking this personally, when it's about what people other than you have experienced. The set of men they are talking about either includes you (in which case you have no valid complaint) or does not (in which case you also have no valid complaint).
You can say the ever-vacuous and useless "not all men", or you can just not do that. It contributes nothing.
@petealexharris I don't think you would say the same to a black person, or a Muslim. You shouldn't be judgemental of men either. It's just as exclusionary and discriminatory.
@petealexharris Their feelings are valid. What I'm saying is that mine are just as valid. Women can and should do what they need to feel safe. That doesn't mean I'm obligated to accept being demeaned by virtue of being a member of a certain group.
My beef is not with individuals that have feelings or experiences with strange men. My beef is with people that argue that those feelings are universally validated and that the demonization is deserved, actually.
When Black people say "White people are dangerous," I don't feel "demeaned" by virtue of being a member of "a certain group." Because I understand that generalizations are just that, general statements that aren't meant to apply in every single possible situation. What's stopping you from developing the requisite emotional intelligence to do the same when you hear negative generalizations about men?
I would still appreciate an answer to the question of why you keep likening men to oppressed groups instead of dominant groups.
@wagesj45@QasimRashid we artificially inflate crime rates for black people and we’ve, especially historically but still today, legally, socially, and economically excluded POC out of fear, often using violent means to do so. What actual harm comes to men when women admit to being scared of you? Who is asking for any action on that front? You asked if you’re scary and we said yes. Sorry you don’t like the answer, but it’s not at all like racism.
@quietewe I didn't ask anything. On the contrary, it is very freely being told to me that not only am I probably dangerous, but the fact I object to that characterization is proof that I am in fact dangerous.
@wagesj45 “You” referred to men overall, there. Women answered a question posed to us and men are upset that we answered honestly. You’re not being told that you’re probably dangerous — you’re being told that women must constantly assess danger from men in general, because NOT ALL MEN commit violent crimes but violent crimes are almost all committed by men. Did you have an answer for how this fear disenfranchises you? Since you think it’s on par with racism?
@quietewe It is very damaging to be accused of horrific things if you didn't do them. Reputation, standing, relationships, employment, etc. And to have the situation constructed that if you dislike being painted with that brush that it is even more proof that you're guilty is a problem.
I know most people who pick the bear are making an abstract point. I don't like it, but I understand it. What gets my goat is when people say that disagreement is proof that you must be abuser yourself.
@QasimRashid I've been teaching my currently 6 1/2 year old son (and almost 10 year old daughter) about consent since they've been about 5. It just has to start with small things, build up to sexual stuff eventually.
The reality is, even young kids get consent, boundaries, etc, if you give them the time to learn and explore it
@fifilamoura@QasimRashid I'll repeat a post I made from another thread:
"Just to set the record straight. I'm a guy. I grew up in the north woods. On the whole, if the critter making noise in brush is a bear, I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable than if it was a man.
On the whole, even men are safer meeting bears on a trail than other men. I don't know what the issue is."
In explanation.
Rustling in the bush: The bear is most likely going to try to get away. The man is most likely to attack.
In general:
Over 500 people are killed in the woods by men per year. Usually no more than one by bear.
I agree with @Okanogen in that I would be more concerned about a brown bear, except I would still take a bear if I didn't surprise him/her.
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