Ukraine will continue to fight for what is rightfully theirs. They’ve done an outstanding job so far, and it’s really highlighted the decline of Russian influence on the world stage. Russia is nothing more than a petrodollar fueled aggressor.
Ukraine will continue to fight for what is rightfully theirs
Out of curiosity, how do you define rightfully in that case?
If that “rightfully” is defined as “they owned it before”, how long ago does it go? 5 years? 10 years? 100 years? Or just for as long as it is convenient for you? Should Mongolia try to reconquer all the territories it once owned?
Or is it “rightfully” as in “recognized in international law”/“defined by UN” or something like that? In that case, you surely agree that China should fight for Taiwan, right?
When the Taiwanese people democratically declare they want to become part of China. I don’t see the US sending military aid to China as long as their claims to the South China Sea don’t respect international maritime law. I’d also imagine respecting intellectual property rights is a concern, in addition to China’s genocidal actions towards the Uyghurs.
When the Taiwanese people democratically declare they want to become part of China.
Wait what? So if people of a region that is internationally recognized as part of another country declare that they want to be part of another country, you are okay with that?
Then how is Donbass and Crimea doing the same is not okay?
Why is it “rightfully theirs” in case of Ukraine, but not “rightfully theirs” in case of China? What the fuck?
The Donbass and Crimea are currently occupied by Russia, there’s never been any Ukrainian held election allowing for the secession of this territory. These regions are not self governing entities that can make this determination. With all due respect, you seem a bit dull, so I’ll just leave it at that.
WW3, eventually. The regime won’t stop. The ambition is there to rebuild the USSR. That would mean starting a conflict with NATO and, if I’m lucky, NATO will actually involve.
They will lose either way, but they’d have less debts to paid and less things to rebuild.
Also Ukraine will benefit from denazification, the ultranationalism pushed by the ukranian nationalists only brings zero-sum situations for Ukraine and its neighbours not just Russia.
Surely the Ukranian people had much control on the decisions made by the puppet goverment after the 2014 coup 😂 surely the Ukranian people must’ve enjoyed the increase in military budget, that surely increased their living standards data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.ZS?end=2…
Zelensky will finally have to negotiate and end the war (that is, if he wouldn’t get overthrown/killed before that), and millions of Ukrainians will finally get to live without fear of them/their husbands/fathers/etc. getting kidnapped on the streets and being sent to army to die or get permanently wounded.
Ukrainians in Crimea and other annexed territories [that are not close to the front lines] have more or less normal life now. They can continue living where they live, or they can at any moment return to Ukraine, nobody is holding them hostage, they are free!
On the other hand, Ukrainians who failed to escape Ukraine don’t really have a choice other live in fear that today might be the day they (or their family) get kidnapped and sent to the army, or try to escape and get caught by “heroes” of the border patrol who carefully watch that nobody escape the meat grinder (unless they give them a hefty bribe).
Have you read what I’ve written? Let me quote myself again:
Ukrainians who failed to escape Ukraine don’t really have a choice other live in fear that today might be the day they (or their family) get kidnapped and sent to the army, or try to escape and get caught by “heroes” of the border patrol who carefully watch that nobody escape the meat grinder (unless they give them a hefty bribe).
You’re absolutely right about Russia having problems you’ve described, I’ve never said Russia is a good place to live (except when comparing to current situation in Ukraine) but in Ukraine people are getting kidnapped and sent to die! Literally! How can you even compare those two things?
If you don’t like what happens in Russia - you can just leave. You are not a hostage! If you like Ukraine so much - go buy a ticket and join army as a volunteer.
If you don’t like what happens in Ukraine - you can’t do anything! You are not allowed to leave country, don’t even dream about going to Russia! You can’t even come close to a border! You are treated worse than a street dog! You can only try to hide from the government until it gets overthrown or until somehow the war ends.
I’ve been conscripted myself. I did my years in the army. They were not a kidnapping.
If you resist a conscription done by a democratic, legal government of the country you’re living in, you’re not kidnapped; you’re caught. Call a spade a spade.
Calling it kidnapping is calling a spade a spade you dumb fuck. Here’s another spade you libcuck imperialist rats refuse to call a spade: UKKKraine is a nazi controlled state dancing on the puppet strings of the Empire of Lies - the United $$naKKKes of AmeriKKKa. Mark my words - the oppressed nations shall destroy the west, ending its 5 century reign of terror.
Pretty sure Russia “kidnaps” (conscripts) a hell of alot more than Ukraine does.
Russia also beating Ukrainians in the occupied territories, forcing them to become Russian citizens, and then either forcing them into fighting against their own country or ship them off to some labour camp never too be seen again.
Pretty sure Russia “kidnaps” (conscripts) a hell of alot more than Ukraine does.
Russia does have conscription which is totally immoral and wrong as well, but it does not kidnap people into army (or at least does not do that on a scale nearly close to Ukraine).
Ukraine literally does kidnapping (catching people on the streets, running after them and using force to put them into vans/etc. Some people manage to self-defend with pepper-sprays, or outrun them or sometimes got protected by a crowd of people, but those are the lucky ones).
Source: uadraftmuseum.ch, and if you search comments on this post you’ll see another guy posting a link to nytimes (a western media!) talking about the same, but it is paywalled and I cannot read it so I won’t repost it.
Russia also beating Ukrainians in the occupied territories
Yes. Note how I never said that Russia are the good guys. There are no good guys, everybody commits warcrimes (Including Ukraine, USA, and all the other countries that are currently considered good guys by the mainstream media). I am just saying that people in Russia (including Ukrainians on occupied territories) have unimaginably more freedom than people in Ukraine.
forcing them to become Russian citizens
I included a source for my claims, surely you have a source for your claims? There was another article here on lemmy about nuclear power plant where “everything is going terrible right now, because only the intelligent Ukrainians know how to operate it, and they are not allowed to work on it because they have refused to accept Russian citizenship”. So which one is it, are they forced to become Russian citizens or not?
either forcing them into fighting against their own country or ship them off to some labour camp never too be seen again.
Which is so much different from what Ukraine does, right? Or in case of Ukraine it’s all alright because the west supports it, but in case of Russia it’s barbaric?
Btw, any source on “ship them off to some labour camp never too be seen”? I suspect you might have confused history of USSR with current events.
Do you think they are “free” to leave Russia?
Literally, yes. Some of my family (but unfortunately not everyone, because lately escaping this west-supported mass-prison is almost impossible) managed to escape Ukraine by going to occupied territories, and from there to Russia itself, and then they just left Russia and went wherever they wanted. (Obviously nobody here would believe that I’m actually Ukrainian, because as we all know all Ukrainians are happy to die in the meat grinder while screaming “for the glory of Zelensky, my only master”, and those who want their family and friends to stay alive are Russian bots, so you can replace “my family” with “many Ukrainians” if that will make it easier for you to read).
Do you have any sources claiming otherwise?
Ok, so Zelensky has banned opposition parties, arrested political opponents. And furthermore he cancelled elections that were supposed to happen next month. Will you be condemning Ukrainian conscription then, since the government will neither be democratic or legally elected?
Jesus, the stupid fucking clowns on this website make me sad. Appeasement never ends and anyone that thinks it does should share the fate of the poor bastards that they’re pushing into the arms of a madman.
But sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade. If you think Putin will finish after a victory in Ukraine you must never have opened a history book in your life.
So if you hate Putin so much - then why don’t you go and fight him yourself? Why do you want millions of Ukrainians to die instead of you, for your goals? How can you think you have a moral high ground supporting a genocide?
Ukraine alone won’t be the cause for a dystopian scenario with Russia as the world government, but I don’t like where it would be going if Ukraine fell. Russia surely wouldn’t stop afterwards. I’d rather see a world where trade connects people than a world where governments forcefully connect people via ideologies. The latter never worked out for anyone.
The war will stop, simply put. NATO has been artificially extending this war for far longer than it should have been given the circumstances.
Ukraine had a chance to do peace talks but they blew it trying to have their cake and fuck it too, so now they’re going to lose it all.
EDIT: Oh sorry, the way I put it was turning off a lot of people. Let me rephrase that. Ukraine will see that they are all alone in this fight because the US is too busy doing genocide in the middle east and they will tap into their superior Nordic genetics and unlock their superpowers. They will fly through the air and launch the crippled forces of russian ork war crimes into the stratosphere, the remaining will bow down and admit that nazism is the superior form of government as Russia is forced to finally admit they were losing. In short: they will win by a landslide just like all of the western media has been saying all along. EDIT2: WHAT!? I said Ukraine was going to win, what more do you want from me?? EDIT3: I can’t believe that worked.
I do still have at least a little hope Ukraine is going to win. A territory does not typically successfully invade another territory a second time. However, I continue to be outspoken for Ukraine. Without aid, Ukraine will probably do what Chechnya is doing and just resort to dirtiertactics, which I’m glad Ukraine is not doing yet.
Well, who else in the world has been trying to a pass multibillion dollar aid package to Ukraine for the past couple months? The aid is about to get voted on this weekend.
Either the EU manages to step in and largely fill the gap, or Ukraine will have to give in. Russia can then ingest Ukraine, continue to seed political distrust in Western countries and then potentially start another war in Europe a few years later.
Alternatively, the NATO/EU/US may decide to become directly involved in the war in Ukraine to avoid a further destabilization of Europe. In that case, Russia can be beat, although I’d expect Russians to be more motivated to go into war.
I’m not sure whether the way the war against Ukraine plays out has too much influence on whether China decides that it needs to start a war against Taiwan though.
I’m by no means an expert in international relations. However, with respect to your last paragraph, I do think that China monitors the development carefully. I would even go so far and assume that they won’t act on Taiwan until the situation in the Ukraine is decided. Not because the cases are so similar, but because China and Russia seem to be important partners for each other. Right now, China is supporting Russia financially by buying resources from them (if I’m not mistaken) and also supporting them with equipment embargoed by the EU/US. China will probably know what it’s risking when they attack Taiwan and I doubt that they want to create that sort of situation while one of their most important partners (might be mistaken here) is in a war that binds their resources and weakens their support for China.
On the other hand, they could also try to start the war on Taiwan soon, hoping that NATO/US stretch their support too thin.
The number of fronts in this war seems to keep expanding.
I hate that I predicted this all the way back when the “two week” lockdown was starting, and that nobody listened to me and I got accused of “valuing the economy over Grandma”.
If my account hadn’t been deleted I could link to my comment where I predicted:
I’m jumping in after skimming so much long discussion… But I do see a possible link here. COVID and the lockdowns have shaken up a lot of society. I remember even back when the anti-mask and BLM protests happened in America about the same time (I’m not American btw, just seeing some news) feeling like the stress and shut-in-ness of lockdowns and COVID fear is probably part of the fuel for people to protest: it gives a sort of release from that.
Now the economy’s been shaken up so much, and more people are finding it hard to get an acceptable job. The comfortable life trajectory many people were on has taken a hit and wealth they assumed was safe and assured (including things like house-buying prospects) has crumbled beneath them.
Many are also suffering brain fog and Long COVID, making life feel less stable, and hitting their job prospects.
The intensity of COVID responses also seems to have given much fuel to American political disunity, and hatred and resentment, as well as political/civil frustration elsewhere in the world.
I don’t know how Russia has been, but I imagine there’s some of the same, at least. And all this unsettling of life and intangible worry, puts people in a much readier situation to rise up around some flash point - such as a war - or to be desperate enough to concede whatever demands their government makes of them - such as conscription for dubious end.
Not that that’s the whole picture by any means, but, perhaps, there is some link from lockdowns to global war.
Why do people talks so easily about US starting war with Russia? They each have thousands of nukes and if it devolves into nuclear war then earth is fucked beyond repair for at least a few centuries. This is not WW2 anymore, a war doesn’t mean dropping with a bunch of soldiers on a beach, it means an apocalyptic destruction of earth.
That is true but at the same time, a line has to be drawn somewhere. If we just let Russia win because they have nukes, there is nothing to stop them from invading and absorbing other neighbors. We can’t let the threat of nukes keep us from doing anything and allowing for Russia and China to just invade anywhere they want.
No earth is better ? Got it! Let the great reset begins!
We haven’t even colonized a single other planet and we depleted earth ressources pretty bad,so if it’s a reset, it will be a complete hard reset that bricks earth save file forever. No more technological evolution for any future inhabitants ! The great filter might actually be the answer to the Fermi paradox after all.
We can’t let the threat of nukes keep us from doing anything and allowing for Russia and China to just invade anywhere they want.
This part gave me a nervous laugh. ‘Only us are allowed to invade anywhere we want, and if anyone else does it we’re ready to hard reset earth because we want the exclusivity rights!’
Cope and seethe. Ukraine deserves to keep its independence and hopefully America continued to support it. Russia isn’t going to use their nukes and every time they threaten it, fewer and fewer people get scared each time. Also American isn’t going to go to war with Russia, they’re just going to keep sending mothballed armour that destroys the Russian stuff.
Get off your high horses. I know Ukraine is a very sensitive subject for some but I didn’t mention anything about it. We’re fucking talking about not escalating it into nuclear war here. You know Ukraine, and no other country for that matter, would exists after a nuclear holocaust,right ?
Lastly, I am against colonization and invasion of any kind.
We can’t let the threat of nukes keep us from doing anything and allowing for Russia and China to just invade anywhere they want.
I’m sorry, but yes-we-fucking-can.
Jesus, people here are so fucking blood thirsty that they’re willing to entertain nuclear-fucking-holocaust just to ‘draw a line in the sand’
Friendly reminder that the US has already been ‘invading anywhere they want’ - I sure am glad the baddies aren’t as eager as the good guys are to glass half the planet.
No one here is bloodthirsty other than the country that invaded Ukraine and now wants to wipe out its people. We are just supposed to sit back and let it happen and let the Russians just keep picking random countries to destroy? No one is advocating for use of weapons of mass destruction but they are advocating for the defense of an independent country attempting to defend itself.
The existence of nukes takes direct military intervention off the table, full stop. Diplomacy is the only way unless a nuclear exchange is acceptable to you.
The US is so privileged that they don’t realize that “just sit back and let it happen” is how the rest of the world has had to deal with them for the last 80 years, and now it’s unconscionable to think they have to ‘let it happen’ with a foreign adversary themselves
I think the world would be better if every country had nukes and countries like Russia, Israel, and the US couldn’t simply steamroll every other country standing in their way.
You’re making too much sense for their patriotic propaganda riddled brains. During the cold war, the media made the population fear the enemy and it’s nukes. Nowadays, they instead turned it into making a complete joke of Russia , even making fun of their nukes. So, no wonder the US population think it’s ok to start a war with them despite the thousands of nukes at their disposal. They think it’ll be as easy as invading yet another poor middle eastern country.
The global majority prefers multipolarity than the US hegemony, the US has spent decades destabilizing our countries while China has developed win-win respectful relationships.
The US has military bases in countries that you do not know they exist, spends more in war than the redt of the world combined and has killed exponentially more people than anyone else.
It’s not a matter of being ok with another country abusing their neighbors, nor is it about ‘letting them do what they want’, it’s about acknowledging the mutually assured destruction established during the cold war and having to reckon with the fact that there are other nations with the ability to end civilization that have other ambitions than you.
Leftists get mocked a lot about their pie-in-the-sky economic goals, but at least they have an intimate understanding of international conflict and the reality of oppositional superpowers. Unlike sheltered american adolescents who’ve never left their country for more than a week and have been assured their entire life that the US is the most powerful and moral nation on earth.
And that’s to say nothing about the fact that america is the antagonist to most other nations on the planet.
the NATO/EU/US may decide to become directly involved in the war
After their involvement, I doubt they’d do nothing if some of their soldiers get shredded by a Russian bomb. Let’s imagine Russia is beaten and it’s on the brink of complet defeat. Do you really not expect them to send nuclear warheads everywhere before collapsing as an ultimate fuck you ? 10% of the warheads are enough to turn earth into a post apocalyptic wasteland.
I live in Germany, was a teenager in the 80s. We would have been ground zero then, and would be ground zero now.
I’ve already spent all the fear of nuclear war in the 80s. I am just not able to fear nuclear war now, anymore. The fear just dulls after nearly half a century.
The choice is to let a madman bring war to one country after another or to stop it - with the cost that stopping has a miniscule chance of me getting vaporized.
But doing nothing will keep the risk of nuclear war for another 50 years. It has to be stopped now, appeasement never did anything good.
Bro we are on the brink of nuclear war with Iran and Israel over some bullshit. If one nuclear power wars with another the nukes will drop instantly. Stop trying to kill me, I don’t want to die in a nuclear blast for fucking Ukraine.
Russia can then ingest Ukraine, continue to seed political distrust in Western countries and then potentially start another war in Europe a few years later.
Holy shit this is the most mapgame-brained comment of all time. You mean Russia will get enough war score to annex Ukrainian territories, wait a few years for aggressive expansion to die down, spend some admin points to press the “sow discontent” button, then war when the casus belli is ready? Like a classic EU4 blob?
How has Russia invaded Transnistria? Transnistria was a breakaway region during the collapse of the Soviet union, similar to Gagauzia
No one disputes that Chechnya is Russian territory. Russia cannot invade its own territory.
Georgian military intended to genocide ethnic minorities. Russia supported the autonomy of said minorities.
Crimea was given to Ukraine by Kruschev very recently. It is almost entirely ethnically Russian, and those ethnic Russians voted overwhelmingly to secede during a coup/constitutional crisis as the alternative was staying in a country where there culture and language are banned, or worse become the target of hate crimes from neo-nazi battalions as many cases are well-documented
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