Seriously, why is the USA supporting Israel?

The US is supporting Israel through what we can mostly all agree is a genocide of the Gazans. Clearly, Biden isn’t a genocidal maniac, yet he’s all in with unwavering support. Why are we doing this? There has to be a logical reason that isn’t just “we want Israel to kill everyone in Gaza and take their land a la lebensraum.”

We know this is an emotional topic, so please be respectful of each other so that we can have open and clear authentic discussion on the matter.

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

The US had no essential friends in the Middle East. So the UK made one for them.

Shyfer,

That’s not super true. We’ve been friends with various Middle Eastern countries over the decades, including Iran (especially during the reign of the Shah), Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan. We’ve worked with all of them.

dutchkimble,

That’s the friend circle your mom tells you not to hang out with

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

You are no longer friends with Iran.

Saudi Arabia is probably the only one who you guys are still kinda friends with, but I think even they are starting to get tired of you.

You invaded Afghanistan. They now have a government that despises you.

Same with Iraq.

Pakistan is also friends with China, nay, especially with China.

shortwavesurfer,

To fund the military industrial complex.

adaveinthelife,

Strategic military foothold in the Middle East.

Aceticon, (edited )

Racism.

You can see that by how American politicians go on and on about Israel being a “Jewish Nation”, a characteristic that is wholly unimportant unless ones is a racist.

Since WWII and what was done to millions of Jewish people because of their etnicity (and not only them: there is this “strange” forgetfulness that for example people were also being exterminated for having the Roma etnicity) by the German racists that, even though the racism itself never died, Jews became “one of us” for the racists in many countries with a predominant white majority (in other words, they’re considered just another kind of “white”).

Israel itself seems to have invested a lot into portraying itself as a “Western Nation” to further entrench and capitalize on that “one of us” perception in Western nations,

Palestinians, on the other hand are seen by the racists as “muslims” and as some call it “brown people”, with quite a lot of nasty prejudices associated with both characteristics.

For the racists this is an “people like us” vs “them” fight, hence why even very overt and extreme racist statement of the Israelis like calling Palestinians “human animals” don’t shock them (they’re pretty much aligned with the racists’ prejudices about “muslims” and “non-whites”) and hence too the vastly different reaction from how the invasion of Ukraine by Russia was seen, since that one from a racist point of view was “people like us” vs “people like us”.

This, by the way, also explains Germany’s behaviour on this: the Nazis might have been kicked out of power there but that very “special” way of looking at other human beings as primarily members of an etnicity and “like us” or “not like us” has never left, so Israel gets unwavering support no matter what and that’s very overtly stated as because “they’re the Jewish Nation” (notice how it’s people etnicity that determines if support is given).

LemonLord,
@LemonLord@endlesstalk.org avatar

The jews are very influential in the US. Dollar. Jeffrey Epstein. Medias. On the other hand a lot of crazy Christians, who want to believe their story of the “holy land”. Useful idiots. A monotheistic tragedy with a such called loving god and a lot of blood and gore. Perhaps they love it subconsciously?

blazeknave,

Hey u/souredgelord which Jews?

blazeknave,

Which Jews?

rammer,
@rammer@sopuli.xyz avatar

The ones with money. The ordinary people can just be brushed aside.

sadreality,

Peasants and plebs ain't people, just NPCs to serve the ruling class.

blazeknave,

Which Jews?

AtmaJnana,

I assume we are to read it as (((the Jews))).

blazeknave,

Trying to give homey benefit of the doubt (with enough rope). Thanks for reminding me to send my daily ping.

blazeknave,

How does this piece of shit’s comments stick and you delete everything I post. Fuck Lemmy and fuck you mods you racist dicks for leaving this crap up all the time.

blazeknave,

Hi mods! Do your fucking job please! 😀

Delphia,

Nobody else has pointed out that theres roughly as many Jewish people in the US as in Israel. Which in the run-up to an election is not a voting base you would want to upset.

helmet91,

And do Israeli people actually approve of this genocide?

rammer,
@rammer@sopuli.xyz avatar

A sizable portion does. And the whole political system is built such that the extremists get a disproportionate say in policy.

Crashumbc,

Several things to consider.

Much of the information the Israels get is controlled. Many probably aren’t aware how bad the genocide is (and the it is genocide).

Most Israels have been subject to ongoing missile attacks and bombings their whole lives. Everyone there knows someone hurt or killed in an attack. They just want it to stop.

I don’t say this to in any way condone the genocide. I’m fully against the genocide. But, this is a complex issue with a lot of factors on both sides that can drive normally reasonable people to do bad things.

NoIWontPickaName,

Well if they want it to stop they sure have a funny way of showing it, what with all the new fighters they just made.

You can’t even really blame the ones that just signed up, if someone did to me what Israel did to them, I would have a rifle in my hands too

Crashumbc,

After 40+ years of missiles, it’s fair to say, the other options weren’t working either. The Israel extremists currently in charge, are trying to make it impossible for the few Palestines left to attack them. If you look at what they’re doing to Gaza, it is total scorched earth. There are no buildings left standing to launch missiles from.

Ultimately, I think your right, it’s just going to perpetuate the cycle.

Personally I don’t think there’s any hope for the area. You have two groups that want to destroy each other on every level. Religion sucks.

Shyfer,

Other options being what? Occupation, apartheid, and oppression? That’s the only thing they’ve done. “We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”

Crashumbc,

ROFL, actually they tried being good neighbors. The other countries tried to wipe them off the planet multiple times.

What Israel is currently doing is horrible. But don’t act like they are some master evil here. There have been many times over the last 40-50 years where Israel has been open to peace and the current terrorist group (or neighboring country) at that time destroyed it. I mean Hamas’s FIRST article of their charter was the destruction of Israel.

BOTH SIDES, are evil here.

Shyfer, (edited )

Yes, they were pretty good neighbors in the beginning, up until they started trying to take everyone’s land and set up a state in the middle of another state, or what should have been another state if Britain had kept their promise instead of fucking things up like Europe always does. That would start a war anywhere. Imagine if China carved out the Midwest of the US for the Uyghurs as a way to get rid of them with the excuse that they needed to be protected. It would be fine if a bunch moved there and bought houses, like normal refugees, but it’s a problem when the rest of the world decides Ohio is there’s now, especially when they defend it with right-wing paramilitaries as part of an active settler colonial project. And also especially when it caused the displacement of tens of thousands of people to Canada. Of course the US and Canada would retaliate, especially if they were never consulted on this “deal” in the first place. It wouldn’t matter if the UN said it was legal and all above board because a paper said so. People would be rightfully pissed off. Not because they were Islamaphobic but because their land was being taken, and not for anything they did, but because people in other parts of the world did genocide, now you and your grandparents lose their house.

Hamas was blowback from this process, as much as slave raids on innocent white households, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, violent resistance by the ANC in South Africa, or Native American raids. They didn’t even appear until 1987, decades after nearly hundreds of thousands had already died or been displaced. No wonder they have something against Israel. Terrorists aren’t great people, news flash, but Israel’s actions cause terrorists. And they prefer that. It gives them carte blanche to keep Palestinians divided and keep taking territory. It’s already been revealed that was Netanyahu’s strategy when they gave suitcases of cash to Hamas through Qatar. And they strategically take territory to prevent a contiguous state. Hamas isn’t great but they are a consequence of Israel’s action. They have all the power here. Look at the graphs of deaths between the two sides.

Israel has never been open to peace. They always kind of make it look like it, but the deals they set always show otherwise. Go by actions, not words. They never acknowledge things like right to return for Palestinians, or they require their military to stay in the area, or they want mineral or oil rights, or air space control, or they don’t acknowledge and deal with the settlements in the West Bank, or something else is in the deal that makes it impossible to take by the Palestinians. Basically they always make sure it’s a deal that Palestine can’t take without pissing off their whole populace. Even allied negotiators have admitted they wouldn’t take the deals Israel has offered before. When Palestinians are at a new point of debasement and desperation, and ready for the old deal, Israel always moves the goalposts again. These “negotiations” offer the opportunity for international legitimacy and cover, but that’s about it. They’ll do things like be negotiating with the PLO and then stop because Hamas randomly did an attack. It’s ridiculous.

Israel doesn’t even like their horrible, one-sided deals, as revealed by Rabin’s assassination for even trying. Bibi’s recent comments about a no two solution is just telling the truth after years of gaslighting the world. The mask is off because they’re doing a genocide so there’s no real reason to hide it anymore. But, as emotional as I sound, I am open to changing my mind, so let me know when there’s been a legitimate peace attempt by Israel and I’ll at least acknowledge that much.

TheAlbatross,

Jews are not a uniform voting bloc, divided on many issues, Israel being one of them.

Delphia,

Never said that they were, but I imagine theres a notable percentage who would be very single issue on the subject.

uriel238,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

In the 1980s through the aughts, it was a lot easier to turn a blind eye to the inhumane treatment of Palestinians because media agencies controlled the narrative. Once the internet allowed for unvetted video to leak the pubic have a better grasp on what is actually going on.

In other controversies, the ubiquity if phone cameras plays a significant part, but I don’t know how many phone cameras are in Palestine.

I think it is this, how the internet affects narratives of violence against oppressed peoples, that drives the save the kids from the internet policies like KOSA and SESTA/FOSTA. The US federal government doesn’t really care about children, but it does care about leaks that embarrass the administration or the state.

TheAlbatross, (edited )

I think this is a good observation, though I’m not exactly sure how it applies to my comment, unless you’re trying to imply that people as a whole, Jews included, are more divided on Israel today than in the 80’s because they have better access to information from more varied perspectives.

I’d say that sounds true.

shinigamiookamiryuu,

The same reason Russia and North Korea are supporting Palestine.

pete_the_cat,

Money.

Microplasticbrain,

Biden said it himself back in the day, its a foothold in the Middle East, “if israel did not exist we would need to create an israel” im paraphrasing but the clip is on YouTube

xkforce,

Everyone that understands military doctrine would understand that one of the main purposes of Israel was to act as a staging ground to extend power throughout the middle east. There is also a sizeable voting block of christians that place special emphasis on the formation and continued support of Israel.

MeanEYE,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

This is the only correct answer here. Everything else is just uneducated and emotional ramblings.

NoIWontPickaName,

Why do we need a foothold there?

There are oceans between us and our enemies.

Let’s just fucking leave and let them come to us

MeanEYE,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Same reason why Pearl Harbor was a thing. Reaction time, faster reach, strategic location, etc.

NoIWontPickaName,

Or we can use one of the many many other bases we have around there, like the one in jordan

gun,
@gun@lemmy.ml avatar

Because history is never the result of good or bad intentions, as much as propaganda would try and convince you otherwise

Scrof,

Gazans themselves seem to agree with the US and Israel in that it’s all HAMAS’s fault. The 7th of October was 9/11 times 17, hostages are still in captivity, random rocket strikes on Israeli civilians are still continuing and the blind Islamic hatred against the Jews is here to stay. What are you proposing Israel does?

NoIWontPickaName,

The killed 34000 people on 10/7!?!

The media has been hiding this!!!

Rhynoplaz,

Military Intelligence and small strike teams kill less civilians than bombing schools and hospitals.

Keeponstalin, (edited )

The history of the conflict is pretty complicated. As far as US support goes, the US can utilize Israel and wars as a destabilizing force in middle east which is beneficial to the Military Industrial Complex, and influence in the region with Hard/Soft Power. Reductively, because of Money and Power.

Following Israel’s stunning victory and occupation of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Washington concluded that Arab nations had moved into the Soviet camp and so increased weapons sales to the Jewish state, including Phantom jet fighters.

Initially as an anti Soviet position under LBJ

Military support for Israel solidified under the Reagan administration which also began a more vigorous diplomatic defence of Israel – particularly shielding it from criticism at the United Nations.

And especially to sell weapons under Reagan

theguardian.com/…/why-israel-allies-explainer

The US has been supporting the ethnic cleansing of Palestine since the 1967 war and the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, and that position has led to the US supporting the ongoing genocide in Gaza today.

Biden is also a strong Zionist, so… There’s that too

ruckblack,

Politics baby

sloppy_diffuser,

Roughly 4 out of 5 companies I’ve seen that have received investments in my industry in the past 5 years have been Israel R&D startup companies.

Not my wheel house, but if I had to guess, the ruling class in the states has a lot of investments tied up in Israel.

Take with a grain of salt, as this is just an anecdotal observation.

Numberone,

I like how you add error bars to your statement. More people should post like that.

Icalasari,

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how the Jewish were treated by all countries in WWII. Going against Israel gives the opposing party ammunition that only works due to most people not understanding the politics at play

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