higher wages for the servers... by the customers. Fnbs

Went to a restaurant in LA today and when I got the check I noticed that it was a bit higher than it should be. Then I noticed this 18% service charge. So… We, as customers, need to help pay for their servers instead of the owners paying their servers a living wage. And on top of that they have suggested tip. I called bs on this. I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge. [deleted a word so it wasn’t a grammatical horror to read]

wesker,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

So it’s a mandatory tip, and it’s also suggested you voluntarily leave a secondary tip.

Tip culture in America is so aggressive.

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

Reminds me of how dealerships can sell cars above the MSRP ... SMH

(( They do it in US but not in Europe; or so I heard ))

WhipperSnapper,
@WhipperSnapper@lemmy.ml avatar

The S in MSRP is “suggested”, so I don’t see any technical problem with it. I think we need a separate term if it’s meant to be a locked price point across sellers.

Random_user,

Listen to this scam.
I stopped at a Starbucks kiosk to get my kid a juice box the other day. When I paid for it by card the card machine prompted for a tip, 25%, 20%, and 15%. Here’s the kicker, 25% was selected by default! You actually have to use button on the machine to move through the selections to get to NONE. To top it off the lady behind the counter casually said, “Oh you’re using a card? Just press the green accept button when the menu comes up.” which would have selected the 25 option.

wesker,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Super shady!

PixxlMan,

It’s not a tip. They’ve literally just increased the prices without showing and lying about it on the menu.

FordBeeblebrox,

Owner wants to get his cut, server wants to put gas in their car. We’re a country of 350 million attempted unique make it rich stories and it’s a goddamn mess.

We need UBI and jobs programs aka Trek after WW3…but I fear we may have to fight the war to get it

SpezBroughtMeHere,

How is this any different than just raising the price of everything by 18%? But you see service charge and a percentage and its an outrage.

Guy_Fieris_Hair,

They are trying to tell you to not ask for a livable wage.

lunarul,

It does make sense to increase all menu prices in order to pay higher wages, but it’s a sleazy dishonest practice to hide that increase from the customers until it’s too late.

Squirrel,
@Squirrel@thelemmy.club avatar

Because raising the price of everything lets you know ahead of time that you are paying more. I’m fine with a price hike if it means servers get better pay, but hiding it like this is scummy and borderline fraudulent.

nan,

It isn’t hidden. They tell you upfront there is an 18% charge, however they rely on people ignoring that or psychologically not caring and only looking at the item price.

CoderKat, (edited )

I wonder how many people would see the warning and assume it just means an 18% auto gratuity? Because that’s very common and the amount is exactly what many auto gratuities have (or at least had when I last was in the US, which was several years ago). Because if I saw something saying there was an 18% service fee, that’s what I’d assume. I would not think there’d be a tip on top of that.

That said, the US custom of not including the final price (including taxes) in the posted prices is a shitty, toxic practice and should be illegal.

nan,

I saw elsewhere that workers are suing this restaurant over this specifically. If they are doing a service charge like this it should not be revenue generating to the restaurant.

IGuessThisIsForNSFW,

If you raise the price of everything by 18% the prices on the menu will be 18% higher, possibly discouraging people from eating there. If you add it at the end people will still choose to eat there at least once. It is practically the same as raising prices, just a lot more dishonest.

irotsoma,
@irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

Also illegal. It’s called bait and switch. Advertise one price, provide the service, then change the price. What if you went to get $50 in gas, and after you put the nozzle back the price suddenly changed to $59. Unless there’s a very visible sign saying it would happen before you started pumping, it’s illegal.

IGuessThisIsForNSFW,

I’m sure that they have a sign by the front stating that they do this. Probably on the menu as well. I doubt that most people are doing the math themselves and are more likely to see a $10 menu item and think it’s $10 + tax and fees. Basically the extra fees are an afterthought.

Skyline969,

It’s getting stupid in Canada too despite our laws being different (as in, you cannot make less than minimum wage if you work in a place that allows tips).

I got my oil changed a few months ago and the machine prompted me for a tip. For what? The mechanic did their job, I paid for said job. Transaction concluded.

I tried Crumbl cookies for the first (and last, holy crap overpriced) time. Got asked for a tip. For what? I got six cookies in a box and then had to leave the store because there’s no seating to eat them there. The person who helped me took my order. That’s it. Another employee put six cookies in a box and put them on a counter and said my number. Not a lot of wiggle room to go “above and beyond.”

What’s next? A tip at the grocery store for the cashier scanning my groceries? A tip at the drive-thru?

Here’s a tip. Don’t work for an employer who doesn’t pay you what you’re worth.

EDIT: Actually, the tip at the drive-thru is already a thing. Starbucks prompts for a tip at the drive-thru. For what? The barista took my order and made my coffee. I drove up to a window, took it, and fucked off.

Mog_fanatic,

I booked a hotel online the other day and was asked if I want to leave a tip… A tip for what? I didn’t even interact with a human. Just clicked a few buttons on a website. Am I tipping the web developer?? Lol

Skyline969,

As a developer, I never get tips. Even on my open-source stuff, I have a “tip jar” PayPal link on the very bottom of my readme files. Never asked, never required. Know how much I’ve made in tips over the years? Exactly $0.

tony,

I’ve definitely tipped developers (through the ‘buy me a coffee’ site, or occasionally patreon). But I’m unusual I think…

betterdeadthanreddit,

Have you tried walking into your software’s users’ homes to clear away empty plates and refill their water?

gamer,

I know it feels gross, but asking is how you get people to do things. This is true for pretty much everything. That’s why mobile apps have a popup asking people to leave a rating, and Apple even has a standardized API for showing that popup since it’s so common.

So you should try something similar for you projects. Come up with an (ideally non-intrusive) ask that feels like a personal request rather than just a link dumped somewhere in a readme.

And if you feel bad about it, just remember that getting people to pay for OSS is a win for the whole ecosystem!

jballs, (edited )
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

I got prompted for a tip from an online pharmacy last week. So we’re apparently tipping on medicine now.

NathanielThomas,

What’s next? A tip at the grocery store for the cashier scanning my groceries?

Nope, a tip at a self-checkout.

nan,

In the US you generally cannot make less than minimum wage, the employer can directly pay you less as long as your full compensation (pay + tips) are at least minimum wage, if not they are supposed to pay more.

I think the explosion of tip questions is due to the card processors figuring out there was an untapped area where they could pressure people to tip and skim off a percentage of that.

Skyline969,

That’s the thing here - the employer must pay you the same regardless of tips. Tips are always a bonus, not part of your wage.

Enigma,

I think you misunderstood. In some states, you will be paid below minimum wage if you make enough in tips. IIRC there was a story a number of years ago about servers in Tennessee (?) only making $2.15/hr. It was legal because they made enough in tips to cover the other $5.10/hr that the restaurant is supposed to pay. So instead of the tips being extra cash on top of pay, the restaurants were literally having the customers subsidize the majority of their pay.

Skyline969,

I understand that, but I’m talking about Canada. In Canada if you’re paid $13, $18, hell $50 an hour, it doesn’t matter whether or not you make tips. Your employer must pay you your full hourly wage no matter what.

Astroturfed, (edited )

Starbucks barista doesn’t even “make” the coffee. They use superautomatic espresso machines. Starbucks coffee sucks ass.

TheBat,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Does it suck because of or despite the machines?

Astroturfed,

Superautomatic machines make inferior espresso shots objectively. For various mechanical reasons they will never make espresso as well as non-automatic machine.

That being said, I own one at my house. It’s very convenient and it’s passable espresso (when using decent beans, Starbucks burns their espresso beans and that’s the main reason it sucks). However, if I’m paying $5+ for a couple shots of espresso in whatever form I’m expecting it to be made right. Not worse than my mid range home machine makes with a couple button taps.

NathanielThomas,

It clearly doesn’t suck or there wouldn’t be one on every street corner in North America.

But I’m sure you’re right about the automation. They don’t want variability in your experience. They want a coffee in Texas to taste the same as a coffee in Iqaluit.

Astroturfed,

Yup, taste like burnt ass garbage beans, coast to coast.

LetMeEatCake,

Service charge I would presume is primarily paid out to the non-wait staff at the restaurant. The kitchen in particular.
Tips go to the wait staff, and they will pay some of that out to other staff (e.g. front staff) depending on how the restaurant works.

These are going to be separate. The service charge is there so they can increase prices by a tightly controlled amount without needing to fuck up the carefully targeted price points ($8 or $7.99 is a lot better than $9.44). Which is shitty, to be clear: it’s a hidden way to increase prices while still advertising the same price. But it’s not something that replaces or complements the tip, it’s just a shitty price-adjustment.

A waiter or waitress is still going to be dependent on the actual tip.

zerofk,

So what’s to stop them from setting all prices to 1 cent and having the rest as service fee?

theneverfox,
@theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

There are restaurants who don’t show you the price, so nothing I guess

Fridayj,

Thank you for posting this you are correct the fee goes to the restaurant and they use the money to pay the back of house. In my experience it is just so the restaurant can provide the same wages as before to back of house but not out of the restaurants pocket. This tends to result in people tipping less so the server directly makes less money. There is also often no accounting/oversight into how the restaurant uses the fee. If I recall correctly the city of Los Angeles is looking into the legality of how these fees are presented to the customer and the fact there is no oversight.

Jackolantern,

Why don’t the restaurants just pay actual living wage then?

redlink64,

That’s a good question, and the easy answer is ‘they should.’ As the commenter above you mentioned, they use it as a tactic to advertise the same (competitive to other local restaurants) price people are used to. A more transparent way of doing business would be raising the price of the menu items to compensate staff fairly. The restaurant owners/management fear that if they do this it would drive away customers who believe the food is overpriced and look to their competitors. It’s easy to say, ‘just pay the staff a fair wage,’ but not quite as easy in practice. Most restaurants are small businesses just barely scraping by. The OP is right to be annoyed, but as always, context and a basic understanding of a situation’s underlying principles make the easy answer difficult to implement.

GizmoLion,
GizmoLion avatar

Put a banner outside saying "no gratuity necessary, the price you see is the price you pay!" and watch what happens.

MeetInPotatoes,

I worked in restaurants for years and this is the correct answer. I also die a little inside at how many posts say to pay servers a living wage but then balk at the idea of paying extra for the meal. Where else would the money come from??! As you said, if they raise menu prices, their competition will undercut and do this. It would also affect takeout prices where tips are usually lower. People hate tipping and want a magic solution where waiters make more but also nobody’s charged more.

outdated_belated,

Because liberal mystification with fancy-sounding concepts made to make you feel dumb so you don’t realize it’s just creative surplus labor value expropriation

KevonLooney,

Because that’s not how it works in America. You know this. Don’t ask a question; it’s stupid. Declare your intention that it should be changed, and propose a way to do it.

If you actually care more than posting online, you can start a restaurant.

Jackolantern,

How come other countries can do it? Why not ours?

I posted because I want to drive discussions which lemmy sorely needs

MeetInPotatoes,

Different cultures, minimum wage laws, and tax laws; bottom line.

TheMauveAvenger,

Is that really what Lemmy needs? Discussion on a topic that’s been hashed out a million times before? It would be more productive to talk about the weather than to keep circling the drain on this shit ad nauseam.

AnonTwo,

I feel like there's been plenty of discussion. Everyone knows it's a problem.

It continues to happen because there's no pressure to change it. Just discussions that fall into the abyss of the internet at this point, repeating things everyone already knows.

wjrii,
wjrii avatar

Part of the reason there's less pressure to change it than you might imagine is that we now have a hundred years of cultural inertia working on, yes, the customers and restaurants, but also on the waitstaff labor pool. At this point, the Americans who seek work as waiters are generally the ones who feel they work with the system and even turn it to their advantage. It's far from all, of course, but the "best" servers at most restaurants probably feel like they're going to make more working the customers than negotiating with their bosses.

So, you've got restaurants keeping their list-prices low and a built-in workforce motivator, customers who expect friendly service and accept that they're culturally responsible for the staff's pay, and servers who stay at the job because they feel like they'll make more than the restaurant would be willing to pay as a "fair" wage (and they're probably right). Now, it's full-on bizarre that we have taken an entry level service job and made it an exercise in theatrical entrepreneurship, and it says some unsettling things about the underlying social order in the US, but I'm not sure that at the nuts-and-bolts level, it's as broken as the people like to imagine.

Aesthesiaphilia,

Because then they'd have to raise prices.

Especially nowadays with so many people looking up menu prices online before going somewhere, it's a way to present your prices as lower than they actually are.

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

It sounds like a hidden fee to me... Which is like lying to someone .. anyways at least that's what it looks like to me if not Fraud

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT, (edited )

THIS^

pay them , what You want to ... And increase the price on your menu ... BUT DO NOT STICK 😞 YOUR CUSTOMER WITH A HIDDEN FEE ...
Especially when we(customers) HAVE to pay tip 😉 ... {{ Like 'TF was the person who came up with the hidden fee even thinking... 😞🤔 ? }}

flips table

ediculous,

Someone needs to ban this account.

LetMeEatCake,

Because they’re allowed not to do so. The answer is shitty yet simple.

Someone not tipping won’t change that either; all that will do is stiff a worker. This needs to be fixed by changing labor laws.

Earthwormjim91,

That’s entirely bullshit. A restaurant can absolutely pay a living wage and not do tips. Plenty of restaurants do it.

The simple fact is that servers don’t want that. They make more in tips.

WhipperSnapper,
@WhipperSnapper@lemmy.ml avatar

Point to your credit here: it’s illegal in this state to pay less than minimum wage whether the employee is tipped or not. ALL workers make at least $15.74/hr here, except for 14 and 15 year olds who can be paid 80% of minimum wage.

MeetInPotatoes,

I hear this repeated so often and it ignores one glaringly obvious fact, servers aren’t the ones making any decisions…literally anywhere. They are the absolute bottom rung of decision-making. It is most definitely the restaurants that are just fine paying as little as possible. Servers do love mandatory gratuity however. Working a party of 10 when only one person tips on their own meal can mess up your whole night.

LetMeEatCake,

… I didn’t say they can’t do so. I said they’re allowed not to. Since it’s allowed, that’s what they do.

MeetInPotatoes,

They would still have to add that living wage cost to the food prices. Hidden or not hidden only makes a difference in how surprised you are, not the cost.

FordBeeblebrox,

If I share the little green pieces of paper, I can afford a used Toyota. If I keep them all to myself, I can buy a new Cadillac and drive past my starving workers in style.

Can’t hear them crying over a V8 exhaust right?

Letstakealook,

Or they can get a less shitty employer. I see a hidden “service” fee, that’s the tip, take it to up with the owner, I’m not responsible for this. Restaurant staff really need to start directing their anger and efforts at their employer instead of customers.

Lodra,
@Lodra@programming.dev avatar

Ya… That doesn’t seem realistic to me. Very few people will “direct their anger” toward someone with power over them. There’s always risk in a addressing issues with your employer because they can make your life worse. They can fire you, reduce your income or working hours, become inflexible with scheduling and demands, remove benefits, etc. No, it doesn’t always go this way and there are plenty of fine employers. But even if you have a reasonable employer and are free to raise concerns, there’s still risk and confrontation.

And what about alternate employers? Restaurant staff can go find a better employer, right? Except, job searches are very difficult and it’s near impossible to identify a good employer from a bad one while interviewing. Very real chance that you make a change and end up with more problems.

Don’t get me wrong. These hidden fees are 100% bs. It’s just not the employee’s responsibility to fix things. They usually have zero power in these situations. “Be good to the customer or I won’t get a tip. Be good to the employer or I won’t be scheduled to work.”

Letstakealook,

It’s not my responsibility to tip on top of a hidden 18% fee as the customer, either. That’s the point I was making. Waitstaff love to direct their anger at customers, as if it’s the customers fault. The employee does have the power to organize, campaign, and vote for politicians who could enact policy to make their situation better. Instead, they just bitch about customers somehow being terrible people because their employer doesn’t pay them a living wage.

Vorticity,

Biden was in the news saying he wants to get rid of hidden fees. I was surprised that restaraunts weren’t on the list of industries being targeted. This kind of fee should be illegal. It should be required to be a part of the up-front price.

Hell, I feel the same about sales tax. It should be baked in to the price you see on the shelf or menu.

NathanielThomas,

But then you can’t list gasoline for $1.99.99 a litre

VioletRing,

Found their website. They use a lot of flowery words, but I think you sum it up pretty well.

https://www.jonandvinnys.com/service-charge

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

Lol. this makes me want to stand in front of their restraunt with a protest sign saying " this restraunt likes to charge hidden fees "

athos77,

See, I'd check with the waiter to see if the service charge actually was used for higher wages. Just because management says that's what it's for doesn't meant it's true.

Serinus,

It doesn’t matter if it is. The way to do that is to increase your prices, not with hidden fees.

scrubbles,
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

I’m okay with the fee IF that means no tipping. If they have a mandatory fee, fine. I prefer when they just raise the prices and I don’t see it, you know, like everything else. (There’s not a plumbing or electrical fee), but at least everyone gets a fair wage. This is bullshit though, the fee means no tip. Tipping should be gone then if there is a fee.

tony,

Absolutely… service charge or tip, pick one. No double dipping.

Here in the UK service charges are always labelled ‘voluntary’ to get around the law I think. They’re incredibly bad for business though… people don’t like having extra charges slapped on and the servers don’t like being asked (not always politely, from what I’ve seen) to have them removed. People don’t go back to such places… It’s been a while since I’ve seen a restaurant try to do it, but I reckon they’re still out there.

krnl386,
@krnl386@lemmy.ca avatar

I bet legally, the establishment owners aren’t required to give “service charges” to their staff the same way they are required to give 100% of the tips…

This is some shady shit, IMO.

Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer (so I don’t know WTF I am talking about), so if someone here that knows the law could comment on “service charges” vs. “tips” in this context, I would love to know.

Nougat,

The word that should be there is "gratuity." I'm quite sure you're right, and I know there are horrible owners for sure, but I would have to think it would be impossible for a restaurant nice enough to charge $22.50 for a mini plate of pasta to retain good servers if they did that. Restaurant owners who operate fancy high-priced places would have more sense than to alienate their salespeople.

krnl386,
@krnl386@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s LA, so I assume there are plenty of douchy “haute cuisine” wannabe places that charge $50 for a handful of steamed rice served in a styrofoam coffee cup under the name “Riz Derelicte” or some stupid shit like that.

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

what a unique and lovely culture.. and so, specific..

theodewere,
theodewere avatar

Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer

DAMNIT MAN, i already filed the lawsuit and put your name on top as a reference

Davel23,

Looks like a couple of their employees are suing over exactly that.

https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2023-07-03/after-lawsuit-jon-and-vinnys-change-service-fee-language-on-bill

scrubbles, (edited )
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

Jesus. They try to be altruistic and say that tip culture isn’t fair (and it’s not), but you know the altruistic thing would be to… Not have tipping then! I’m in Seattle and there are tons of restaurants like this that have a fee, but then tipping is genuinely not allowed, they don’t accept them. Everyone gets a fair wage.

That 18% is definitely not going to the staff.

And for the owners, here’s an idea, why not just make the menu items 18% more expensive and remove the fee altogether?? And if that means your food is too expensive… Literally yes. Why does your food cost that much?

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

Tyvm for finding this article!!

" The announcement and change in billing language comes after a Los Angeles Times article published on June 21 about the class-action lawsuit filed in Los Angeles Superior Court against Joint Venture Restaurant Group Inc., which owns Jon & Vinny’s. The workers claim that the company denied them tips and therefore shortchanged them on their take-home pay because of confusion resulting from the 18% service fee.

California’s gratuity law requires that tips be remitted in full to non-managerial service staff. "

SMH ... What a bunch of assholes; screwed their customers and then their staff...

Hope they get fucked / hope justice is served

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

Makes me think 🤔 if I went to a grocery store and they charged me a membership like Costco without actually disclosing it... Sounds like fraud if they don't disclose this service charge / fee at the very beginning... They should have it plastered big all over the place because looks like most of us wouldn't expect something like this...

"Restraunt" food is expensive as it is IMHO, even fast food isn't a great deal unless you buy with a coupon or some 2 burgers deal 🤝... Otherwise it's not worth it... Not to me anyways ... :/

hark,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

If only I could simply use a coupon to get a decent price from a fast food place. Nah, instead they all demand that you install a datamining app to maybe get you prices that would’ve been the regular price just a few years ago.

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

Ye... I hear Ya

Surreal,

It’s great if they include it in the bill, it gets rid of the tipping culture. If they still ask you for tips then tell them to GTFO

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

Exactly...

This to me sounds like ;
A High tax
A High tip
A High hidden fee

((At least to me ... I am not poor, but I am cheap / frugal at least when it comes to food))

abff08f4813c,
abff08f4813c avatar

I think the service charge bit, that is widespread as an alternative to tipping in Europe, makes a lot of sense in general.

Key word in the above sentence is: alternative

Hyzerflip,

They should then adjust their prices by 18% on all items and not have this bullshit on the receipt. Let the customer choose when ordering how much they are willing to spend instead of this. It will make the process much clearer and avoid confrontation. Bad judgement on the owners.

scrubbles,
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

I agree, but I’m okay with this as a compromise. I’m in Seattle and we’ve been fighting tipping culture for a while now. I’ll take an 18% fee over those bullshit “suggested tips” that are now starting at 25%

isdfoa,

Did they charge you 3.75 for being an LA woman? 😂😂

Kinglink,

I tip twenty most places. Easy to calculate and fair.

I see this and they have gotten my tip. If you work there and are upset by that, then you need to find another job because the company is stealing your tips no matter what. And I personally won’t return, because it’s never the best restaurants who pull this shit.

Similarly if a company puts automatic gratuity on my bill that’s the tip as well… And usually it’s less than I’d give freely.

If Americans are supposed to tip extra it their choice. If you want to define service charges or something like this, then you’ve made your choice. Greedy fucks trying to hide these extra charges need to stop. I’ll pay more for food on a menu if that’s what it takes but trying to sneak it is bullshit.

j891319,

More than 10% service charge is unacceptable already where I am. Let alone asking for a tip on top.

happyhippo,

Oh, please help me on this.

I’m Italian and going on a trip to the western US in less than two weeks, and still haven’t understood how to behave wrt tipping/service charge.

In my previous trips to the US, before this nonsense was automatically added to the bill, I would tip between 15 and 20% depending on my level of satisfaction with the waiting staff.

What should I do now, when visiting places auto-charging a service fee?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

NiiicePants,

If they’re auto-charging it, don’t tip any extra on top. Check every receipt because in many places you’ll see they automatically add gratuity. This place is definitely shady for adding it as a “service fee” and then still putting suggested tip amount afterwards. I would say do not feel guilty and do not think twice. Service fee implies that it paid for the service.

DarkDarkHouse,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

With any luck, this becomes widespread and ends tipping culture.

happyhippo,

Let’s hope so, as someone who’s not used to it, I find it quite confusing and not really transparent. Plus it’s kind of a guilt trip every time. I would take a higher overall bill which covers staff salaries any day. Must also be much better for service workers as they’ll know they’ll be able to pay THEIR bills, whether the business is doing good or not.

happyhippo,

Thanks!

drifty,
@drifty@sopuli.xyz avatar

I see no reason to tip at all in most cases and ask them to remove the service charge or it’s equivalent from my bill. I get eye-rolls and looks sometimes but I’m not obligated to pay anything above the charge for my food lmao

NormPR,

Most places still don’t do this. Just look out for it but you probably won’t run into it. I would say that these days 20% is kind of the new 15%.

happyhippo,

Ok, thanks!

ingeanus, (edited )

As someone in the Eastern US (grain of salt there), this rarely occurs but if it does it is usually when a place serves a large group (justified as the extra difficulty for serving so many people at once). If I saw this applied in another situation I would 100% consider that a tip, give them nothing, and never eat there again. If it was applied when I went in a large group I’d say it can go both ways, but I’d definitely not go back there with lots of people again because it feels like its an attempt at fleecing the customer for more than the trouble is actually worth. Alternatively I might tip less, taking the 18% into account already as a tip. Overall, I’d say it’s bullshit and a good proportion of the people I know would agree.

Hope your trip goes well

happyhippo,

Thanks! Seems a reasonable approach

ThirdNerd,

Since the receipt says the 18% “helps facilitate a higher living base wage for all our employees”, then that’s already the tip. So I would write the word “ZERO” on the tip line, and never return to that restaurant.

I’ve already stopped going to anywhere that:

  1. Pulls stuff like this, or
  2. Wants me to input a “tip” for fast food (which includes coffee shops - looking at you, Starbucks) and other places that don’t use the traditional waitstaff model for pampering and serving your table, or
  3. Makes me input a tip up front before I get “service” or even product.

All of the above also means I’m eating a lot less garbagey and/or overpriced food-stuffs from restaurants these days. Better health. More money in my pocket. Higher quality food.

stappern,

all this tip nonsense would keep me away from restaurants. luckly none of this shit here where i live.

CrayonRosary,

All wages are paid by customers. Where do you think the money to pay them comes from? Heaven?

The underhanded and sneaky part is that the menu prices are a lie. If they want to pay a decent wage to their employees, good on them, but they should just raise all menu prices by 18% instead of surprising you later.

BigDiction,

Kids pasta shells are already $16.25. I don’t think they can raise them any more.

MNByChoice,

Of course they can raise prices higher.

Sadly, there have been studies (too lazy to find a link) that indicate being sneaky like this, instead of raising prices, leads to a better reaction from customers.

partizan,

if by better reaction you mean never ever return there, then for sure…

Kinglink,

You nailed it. It’s artificially deflated prices, and dishonest…

Would be the last time I visited them.

DarkDarkHouse,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Upvoted, but just want to say that the payment usually goes customer -> owner -> employee. Don’t let the owners trick anyone into thinking that someone other than themerlves are responsible for paying employees.

CrayonRosary,

Why though? Why does that asshole get to decide how much the cook makes, and his much the server makes? Why do I get no say in it? After all, they’re making and serving food for me, not the owner. I should be allowed to negotiate with the cook and the server and write up a contract we all agree to. The owner gets a cut, too, for providing the space, and paying for the ingredients, but the cook and server pay him out of the money they make. Don’t forget the dishwasher. He rents the dishes to the cook.

I realized this sounds very silly and weird, but that’s exactly how contracting works. You directly pay who you interact with for the work they are offering, and if their work requires good or services from other people, they pay them.

Why not run a restaurant like a hair salon where a cook rents a time slot and a part of the kitchen. And the server is like hiring a private courier.

Again, its silly. I’m just saying… The whole customer -> owner -> employee relationship you seem to hold sacred is totally arbitrary. It’s a system some men with capital invented thousands of years ago. Why is it necessarily good?

DarkDarkHouse,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Nobody’s saying it’s good, I’m saying it’s usual. Partly because it’s simpler in this situation, but you’re right to point out alternative models. Heck, where I’m from tipping is an alternative model.

mrsgreenpotato, (edited )

This is bonkers. Just include it in the price… I would definitely refuse it and have done it one time, when it was not clearly stated in the menu that service will be added. The waiter claimed it is “a standard fee”. No, it’s not and should never be.

Exusia, (edited )
@Exusia@lemmy.world avatar

Found it by the “helens shazzy” www.jonandvinnys.com/menu I don’t live in LA so everything I see is based solely on the website. I read zero google reviews.l and just dove right in. TLdr -op you got finessed. Stop eating here my guy.

It seems by their website that fee is ONLY mentioned on the wine page (also based on this receipt and op statement, this fee is EXCLUSIVE to wine buyers for some reason) where they also charge a $50 corkage fee (most normal restaurants are 20-40), and also stock rotates “so frequently we can’t maintain an updated list” which seems silly, but maybe stock at all 3 locations changes often enough that this really would would be a pain. The restaurant itself is…all over the place. Italian, and breakfast foods? But also there’s Helen’s Winery attached? And on weekends they act as a bakery? And they have “pizza classes” for $650? Idk they have several “sister” type restaurants that are either owned by the same owner or its some kind of franchising thing, but they’re all equally VERY expensive for the food you get. Very upscale. For example [buttermilk pancakes, salted butter, maple syrup 16.25] compared to IHOP “chicken and pancakes” for $14 where you get not just 2 pancakes and butter, but 2 drumsticks. ADDITIONALLY on the Wine page “Modifications are politely declined.” what does this even mean? No changes to wine? Or no modifications to your MENU? Dawg if I’m paying you 20.50 for a rigatoni, you’re not putting “broccolini” in it.This shit ain’t mom’s house where I go to bed hungry if I don’t like it. I sit at the big kids table and get a big kid fork.

For those just reading the slip, these are indeed all full dishes (not just single line items), in LA where everything costs more. Overall 0/10 I wouldn’t eat here based on all this above, before even being infuriated by the “we pass the bill to you” shtick. I’m mildly infuriated just reading through this website.

ZarK,

WTH is a corkage fee?

FitzNuggly,

A few charged for opening a bottle of wine. It used to only be charged if you brought your own bottle to the restaurant.

ZarK,

How are they supposed to sell wine without opening the bottle? Is it optional? Can I open it myself instead?

FitzNuggly,

In most places its not legal to serve yourself alcohol you brought to the restaurant yourself. So as a compromise many restraunt owners will allow you to bring a bottle of wine that they dont carry, and then charge you a fee to serve it to you. This means they are staying within the law with respect to liquor laws.

For example where I it is illegal to give away alcohol tor free. If a restaurant serves it to you, even if you purchased it before hand, they would be serving it for free and thus a violation of the liquor laws; hence the corkage fee which allows restaurants to so serve you your wine within the law.

www.touchbistro.com/blog/corkage-fee/

ZarK,

Right, I finally got it now. I thought a customer had been charged this fee on top of their bottle of wine, but I see now that “corkage fee” is just something that was found on their wine menu, and then it makes sense with your context. Thanks!

tapdattl,

Also by making it a service fee instead of a tip, management and the owners are able to tale part of it. Tips legally have to go to the employees, service fees can go into the owner’s pockets.

pivot_root,

The service they’re giving you is information. Specifically, information on where to never eat again.

I hate tipping culture, but this is just on another level of bullshit. I’ll begrudgingly subsidize a server’s wage, but there ain’t no way I’m about to help line the pockets of the greedy fucks who refuse to pay a living wage.

ebenixo,

How about businesses pay their fucking employees? What a concept

Lonnie123,

Isnt that what they are doing here in theory? (assuming they arent just keeping it and not paying them higher wages)

At the very least there should be no tip option since thats what the service fee should be doing, but in theory this is what everyone online appears to want… higher prices and better pay for the employees (unless everyone really just wants the same prices, no tipping, and higher pay for the employees)

ebenixo,

Thry should raise prices and pay the employee higher wages. All this other bullshit is just that

Lonnie123,

Its a bit of bullshittery (again, assuming all that money goes to the staff here), but ultimately its the same thing as raising the menu prices 18%. My hunch is that people would scoff at the prices if they listed them on the menu and wouldnt go there, so they do this as a way to offset that.

Viking_Hippie,

Yeah, people would be less likely to order food there if they knew that everything on the menu is more expensive than advertised, imagine that! It’s almost like people don’t being swindled under obviously false pretenses!

Lonnie123,

I just mean to say that what people SAY they want, at least online, (better pay/benefits for employees, no more tipping) is at odds with what they actually expect and will tolerate to see on the menu. This is done in a very shitty, maybe even illegal way, but it does draw the direct line from the higher cost of the food to the higher pay for the staff.

They also have the tip option which adds an even further layer of BS to it.

Im not supporting this in any way but it is a way to break it down for customers to show them without tips this is how much extra it would be.

WarmSoda,

And just how are they going to be able to pay thier employees Mr smartguy? From the crazy over priced dishes they serve? Huh? What, from the $650 pizza making course they offer? You think they could have four sister restaurants and have any profits? Please, inform us where they could possibly get enough money to pay thier employees real life adult wages.

ebenixo,

Not my problem close the restaurant if you can’t function without bait and switch tactics with your menu. The answer to your problem isn’t shady business tactics. Maybe due to the mismanageement of the economy and inflation restaurants aren’t viable business ideas anymore. As the country country increasingly turns to authoritarianism as an answer to it’s failing economic system you are going to see more similar things that once was viable is no longer.

WarmSoda,

Glad you didn’t bother to read past the first couple of words.

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