I don’t mean to shit on anyone who would rather use an open source decentralized platform over privately owned Reddit, but Lemmy.World is definitely the most obnoxious large instance, with a lot of people still holding over a lot of those reddit toxicity mannerisms. On top of that the admins/devs of that instance are always having major technical issues that they can’t seem to overcome. Wish them the best though.
Yup, this is why I joined and donated to dbzer0 and not lemmy.world. Hosting lemmy is not enough, it’s critical to also protect free speech and open access to information.
I love all the salty comments about having to move. Its piracy, it will always be removed if it becomes too popular. This is how it has always been and always will be. No one is obligated to feed you free shit without any effort on your part. They take one place down and you move on. Either get used to it or start paying for services.
Why does no one understand that the admins don’t want the instance to be shut down and they don’t want to be arrested???
I am very pro-piracy, but I would never host a piracy community because I don’t want to be freaking jailed. Governments view those that host piracy and piracy communities much more harshly than random participants.
Is everyone on this website 12 years old and not understanding of real world consequences???
Because from everything I’ve seen, those communities did not do ANYTHING illegal. They talked about software that can be used that way, but if we go by that measure, discussing any Fediverse software is illegal, because you could use that to host illegal content.
But that’s true of literally every single community. Posting copyrighted images in a pics community, copyrighted music in a little video/gif, a nazi denying the holocaust (illegal in Germany) in one little comment a hundred comments in…
Who do you think is more likely to overstep? A community very well aware of the risks and the scrutiny they are under, full of people that are themselves aware of the risks, or some rando on some random community?
Obviously, they are allowed to ban or not ban whatever they want, but I just think it’s a very short sighted, quickfire decision.
They have from some instances with questionable content but not many others without questionable content. The question is do you persecute someone because you think you would be badly affected if they commit a crime in the future, even though they haven’t so far and doesn’t seem to be on the path to either?
Piracy is a crime. Piracy communities constantly tow the line of legality and have a tendency to attract legal attention even if they are trying to not host content themselves.
Reeeeeeeee my piracy isn’t easy, I have to make accounts and actually search for alternatives when things get shut down.
For the record, I pirated for years when I had no money. if you want easy access go pay for it. If you want free shit get in your dinghy and sail the seas. No one is obligated to host piracy forums and servers. Take yo ass to an instance that allows it. I bet you’re the type to torrent everything, not even have the decency to seed and then bitch about not finding good seeds for things you want.
I don’t understand why everyone is so shocked they did it. Hosting information on pirating stuff is a lightning rod for lawsuits and Lemmy.world is large enough to actually get noticed.
I’m only surprised it took them that long to block it.
BBS to IRC to P2P to torrent with all manner of shady websites and other crap thrown in. That’s just in my Internet life from 2002. I never used BBS but I was aware of them. Registering a new account is nothing compared to how much harder it used to be pirating stuff.
This is just a single instance, lemmy as a whole has thousands of instances. I would suggest not joining the largest most popular lemmy servers if you want to access piracy stuff.
Exactly. This is about protecting themselves from legal liability, not anything else. As the guy who hosts it is just a regular guy, not a corporation with limited liability/tons of startup dollarbucks, I don’t begrudge him/them at all.
The Streisand effect is an unintended consequence of attempts to hide, remove, or censor information, where the effort instead backfires by increasing awareness of that information. It is named after American singer and actress Barbra Streisand, whose attempt to suppress the California Coastal Records Project’s photograph of her cliff-top residence in Malibu, California, taken to document California coastal erosion, inadvertently drew greater attention to the photograph in 2003.
Yeah, I remember when this happened. Few people noticed or cared about the picture if her house until she tried to have it removed. Then it was suddenly on every blog site and news agency.
And the reason this isn’t an example of that is that Lemmy.world isn’t attempting to keep anyone from going to c/piracy, they just don’t want the liability of having it on their servers. Anyone can very easily make another account and go there.
This is basically why lemmy is a hassle. One shit gets blocked, you move and register then you learn these guys are alt-right or peddle child porn or some other bullshit and then you have to register again and again. It’s confusing and quite annoying.
You should probably add in a step where you stop to consider why there is a correlation between an instance refusing to block stuff and it’s admins being scumbags. If the entire Fediverse divides itself into people who disagree with your position on what should and shouldn’t be blocked and people who agree with your position but also have a bunch of awful beliefs you can’t support… Maybe you’re just fucking wrong on this one?
You realize i have no idea what the community is about, especially considering that I’m migrating from reddit. For me, and many others like me, lemmy is a great unknown where i register to everything or the instances i find out through a quick google search or reddit recommendation…
…only to use it for a few days and realize that i may have made a terrible mistake. Lemmy.world sounded to me like the important one to have - and then they make a carpet ban without considering the community. I don’t really care about piracy that much, but I agree on principle and find it mindblowing that a behemoth like reddit would have no issue with it, yet Lemmy.world trying to get as many reddit refugees shows that they will stop all discourse on a topic for fear of it spiralling. This shows that a big instance such as Lemmy.world is simply not ready for a large number of users.
I deleted lemmy.world. I left a comment for admins that will get me banned anyway having called them spineless. You are probably more versed in lemmy-verse than I (and probably many other new users) are, but understand that not everyone finds it easy. If I now have to keep migrating i will probably just delete lemmy completely.
They only have to keep migrating because every time they join a new instance they either don’t agree with the admin’s approach to blocking content or they do but those admins tolerate intolerable content.
Presumably they’re leaving Reddit for a similar reason and will continue to have the exact same issue across any social media platforms until they find a way to resolve that issue. Either by accepting that seeking a highly permissive blocking policy will put them in the company of scumbags, or reassess whether they’re right about how relaxed they want the moderation of the spaces they inhabit to be.
Personally my take away in those circumstances would be, “hmm, seems like only scumbags share these beliefs with me. I’d better look much more carefully at those beliefs…” but we all need to choose our own paths…
My comment has nothing to do with how much you know about Lemmy.
Your claim is that you keep leaving spaces that have blocking policies you disagree with to find spaces that have blocking policies you agree with but are unhappy to keep finding that those spaces also support awful things.
My perspective is that maybe it’s not bad luck, maybe there’s just a correlation between not wanting to block stuff and being full of awful stuff. So rather then keep endlessly searching for somewhere that doesn’t believe in blocking things but somehow isn’t full of awful things, maybe you should reassess your position on things being blocked.
Anyone who thought that a decentralized option (Lemmy or anything else) would ever have a serious chance at replacing a centralized option (such as Reddit) was always huffing ungodly amounts of copium. Stuff like this where the admins work for free and have very specific hard-ons for what they think they should allow is one of the many reasons it was never going to work.
And I say this as someone who has seriously tried using kbin/Lemmy for the past 2.5 months. I have found plenty of good stuff here, but I think I would have stopped already if LJ didn’t release sync, which has so far been the only thing that has made Lemmy bearable to use.
Some of the problems here keep me from fully embracing lemmy, but its a hard question. Some communities that I participate have no intentions of moving from Reddit, some had to move from Reddit and some have found new homes, either here or elsewhere.
Serious question: what’s been stopping us from making a fully decentralized reddit, or social network in general?
Something that’s completely peer to peer based, where people themselves host the content they interact with, and have the freedom to hide whichever type of content THEY want?
Has it been purely a technical problem? Is there discourse on this concept?
That’s basically Lemmy though? Unfortunately, expecting non-technical people to host their own content and moderate their own experiences is too much work and not worth it or viable for most users. Reddit made it easy, and its user base was still tiny compared to the bigger social media platforms.
Lemmy is not peer to peer, it’s federated, which is a big difference.
Self hosting your content and moderating your own experience could be made super easy and trasparent, in theory, but I understand that actually implanting this kind of UX must not be an easy task. It does seem the only solution for a truly censorship free network tho.
Where does the front end live, who hosts it, who pays for the compute, and what determines the latest version is the truest version
where does the data sit. Posts, media, content, and how does this get referenced properly in a safe way.
What’s funny is truely distributed compute is totally possible today, thanks to a lot of work done in the blockchain community. Notice I said blockchain and not crypto, we don’t want the bullshit associated with that (coins, nfts etc). What we want is distributed compute and storage that can be read in a way that provides the same function as Reddit etc. Coupled with a good client experience like sync.
The biggest problem with that though is that blockchain that is truely distributed is slow by nature, because each block of data is distributed and validated to all nodes that host to keep consistency. And the larger a site becomes, the more data there is to store, and the more resource intensive verification becomes so therefore the nodes slowly gain a higher set of requirements.
So the middle ground is something like Lemmy. Where you can run your own instance, that talks to a wider federated network of instances where no one single entity can control the content.
In tech, a lot of the above is explained by a concept called CAP theorem. It’s a really interesting problem that has only really been solved by a few vendors (google spanner is a good one) but even then it doesn’t cover the distributed part.
I’m on sync, does it show? I mean, i already left (or at least think i have) lemmy.world. I’ll probably give lemmy a try, add few more instances internet recommends and really try to use it. If stuff like this continues, I’ll probably just delete sync and forget about lemmy completely.
@AnimusAstralis The #fediverse does not decide unanimously. What seperates it from #corponet is, it empowering to switch instances if you have a problem with an instances (Through the means of communicating across instances and being able to easily migrate an account) Through competition only instances which have the support of their users wil prevail
As @mojo put it "Stop centralizing ! " Your undeminig the very thing that keeps us from being depended on the mercy of admins
It’s not censorship, it’s just smart people protecting themselves from liability. Some things are clearly illegal and the admins should not be expected to take the heat for people who participate in those illegal activities.
Some things are clearly illegal and the admins should not be expected to take the heat for people who participate in those illegal activities.
But aren’t they protected under the same laws that other sites like Reddit are already protected under?
As far as being responsible for what their users post, last I heard that already had laws that protected the sites that hosted them so they were not responsible.
Legal / illegal is the wrong term here because this type of thing is a civil matter.
If you were a volunteer admin and receive a cease and desist notice from an expensive law firm with an army of lawyers representing a client with infinite money, what would you do?
Would you pay your own lawyers out of your own pocket to stand up for your freedoms and rights, or would you just roll over and let someone else take up that fight? Would definitely be the latter for me.
That may be true, but it’s easy to say that as a third party who is not receiving threats of litigation.
Well I’m not saying it out of ignorance as a third party, I’ve actually read articles going all the way back to the time of BBS sites, where US laws protect those who host these sites from being responsible for the comments that people make that sit on their servers.
I don’t remember the exact law name right now (IANAL) but I know it exists, I’ve read articles about it before.
Even if you’re 100% confident that you will ultimately be found blameless, most people would take action to avoid facing a civil suit.
A well resourced opponent will drag you to consultation. Even forcing you to respond to a legal demand is an arduous task. You might grind through it and even get awarded costs, but you’d have to bear those costs while you’re going through the process.
Point is, they can still destroy your resolve without winning a case.
Even forcing you to respond to a legal demand is an arduous task.
You’re over exaggerating the effort required to initially defend yourself against something like this.
Plus the safe harbor laws are very defined, so a judge would most likely throw the case out of court early on, if it even ever got that far. The safe harbor laws as I understand them are very clear on this.
You’re overexaggerating the desire for volunteers invest any effort whatsoever in defending themselves against a sophisticated and well resourced civil lawsuit.
You’re overexaggerating the desire for volunteers invest any effort whatsoever
Now that’s hyperbole.
And again, while I am not a lawyer, my understanding is the law is very specific and very clear on this matter. Companies that host sites that people put comments on (as long as they follow the hosting requirements of the law) are immune from prosecution. Safe harbors.
Lemmy.world is hosted on a german Server and afaik run by german people. Hosting or even just linking to anything piracy related in germany would be suicide.
My bad. I was sure i read somewhere they are hosted in germany. guess i was wrong. Still, hosting or linking to illegal stuff inside the EU is probably still a very bad idea. apart from it violating the ToS of the hoster (Hetzner).
The only thing it’s serious about is being a decentralized platform - if you want to access something, then choose an instance who’se admins are serious about being heavily censored.
It’s the old adage of “if you don’t like something, do something about it”
The fediverse gives you the tools and ability to surf the fediverse how you want, all through decentralization. Don’t like the rules on one instance? Move, simple as that.
It’s the same context of “vote with your wallet” - only put your accounts and time into instances you want to put your account on and only donate to instances you want to donate to, vote with your time and money, that’s how we can make this platform better, for ourselves and for others.
I don’t get the response in this thread. All the complainers need to go run your own instance for free and leave yourself personally open to potential lawsuits. You’re not even on the lemmy.world instance, so you’re shitting on admins from an instance making a decision to legally protect themselves, oh and it does not affect you at all. Programming.dev might get sued at some point, or at the very least they have to live with the stress of that potential.
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