Somehow this is the only country on earth where this seems to happen. When talking about shootings involving guns, okay, fine, the US is certainly an outlier there, but every country has cars and police.
How should this have been handles instead? If she really really doesn’t want to comply, You write down her license place, and you let her go.
That simple.
You have her face on video, you have the license plate, it’s trivial to then go visit her at her home and have a talk. Hell, follow her if you have to, but not in a high speed chase. Just keep your distance, let her go where she wants to go until she’s done.
Worst case scenario, you just let her go.
This extreme focus on that every petty little thing MUST be stopped, every small time offender MUST comply only ends in this. Suffering.
Instead focus on fixing poverty and you know, making sure that pregnant women have all they need so that they don’t need to steal? That is why we banned abortion, no? Because we care about babies?
Oh yeah that’s right. We care about unborn fetuses, but born babies can get fucked.
Let this woman have an abortion if she can’t afford a baby. Now she doesn’t need to shoplift, at least not for the baby
Lift people out of poverty. Push people to be better educated. THOSE are things that will actually lower crime rates but then it means they ml o longer are the common pulp that can stand on
That is why we banned abortion, no? Because we care about babies?
No, we banned abortion to keep controlling women and make sure they keep their head low and their financial situation lower. And it works so well that they have to shoplift, in which case we can justify killing them. Mission accomplished!
Depending on poverty levels, she actually might have to. Not saying shoplifting is fine, but it might help to keep in mind that if people cat fed their children the legal way that they will move to crime to do so. Whether they caused their own situation (at least in part) or not doesn’t matter in that equation.
Also, again, you don’t murder somebody (actually, somebodies, according to their own laws as she was pregnant) for stealing a few items. There are better ways of handling that.
The video seems to suggest she tried to get away, not commit a homicide. Police could have easily let her go. They have a license place, they have a face, they can go pick her up any time later.
This was a SUSPECTED shoplifting. The problem here is that in the USA police have no idea about de-escalation. They always seem to make every situation they get in to worse.
Police needs to arrive into a situation and make it calmer, better. To protect and serve remember? You can’t protect anyone if you just get in waving guns every single time.
This is about shoplifters. You stop them. They don’t let you? Then don’t start shooting, there are other solutions. I recall a few years ago there was a similar situation where US police officers tried shooting a suspected shop lifter in a parking lot ending up shooting and killing a little girl standing being the suspect.
Actions like these are madness and show that police officers in the USA are wholly unprepared to do their jobs. This is not surprising if you realize they received a fraction of the education that police officers get in (for example) Europe. There they do teach de-escalation and it works, people don’t get shot for stealing a bread.
Oh im sorry did the police not wait out for the right time for an arrest? That is so rude. Yeah better let the future officer do it that is the best solution. How bout she get out of the fucking car? she could have done something even more stupid and harm someone else if they let her go.
Even if she was a shoplifter, killing her is not an appropriate response. But we don’t know if she was a shoplifter, do we? We only know a store employee said she was, is that employee infallible?
No matter if she was an angel incarnate i fully expect to get shot at when i pull this sort of nonsense in presence of police and i dont even live in a country where anybody can be armed to the brim. I wish more people would think this way too.
On the other hand, there are plenty of examples where the police show lack of training, which is an issue, but this isnt one of them.
Yeah, that kind of mind set is what the typical US police officer seems to have. And it gets people killed over and over for petty offences, if any.
This woman gets scared, she becomes unpredictable. “Well then, let’s stand in front of the car so that she can’t leave without trying to run me over! That is a great reason for me to murder her!”
Or you can just let her go. It’s the same reason why in other countries you typically don’t see the high speed chases that you see on the US. You start chasing somebody, they start taking risks that put everyone at risk. You just let them go and catch them later when things have calmed down.
It’s the same reason behind why do many mentally ill people are murdered by police officers in the US because they don’t know how to deescalate.
This in turn is all a consequence of the lack of training that US police officers have. They barely train with their gun and that is most of the Training they get.
They gotta stop you somehow. The cops are supposed to bring the situation under control. Because whoelse will? The more bullshit you pull, the easier it is for the cops to run out of options.
In this case it killed a pregnant woman.
She is primarily responsible for her own death and the death of her baby.
No they don’t. Not at all costs. If you’re an active terrorist shooting around then sure, stop at all cost, even risking the lives of innocent civilians.
But this is a barely suspect of shoplifting. Death should never occur trying to stop a person like that. Worst case, you let her go. Yes. You let her go, as it’s not worth it.
This reminds me of that time where us police started shooting in a busy street, managed to miss all the bad guys but hit various innocent civilians.
You don’t start shooting unless there is no other option and for too many US police officers, shooting is the first option, like here.
The police officers could both have been standing next to the car, out of harms way. Had the woman left, then they could have followed her, at distance or close by if safely possible. Nobody had to die.
The police officer standing in front of the car cannot say that she endangered him, as he endangered himself by deciding to stand in front of the car.
Somehow the entire basic point is being missed that there CANNOT be a reason that a simple shoplifting (if that happened at all) leads to a person being shot dead. Police is responsible for safety of all and they should have deescalated the situation but instead they escalated it at every turn. Again this shows that US police officers have a huge lack of training.
I’m guessing the time and ammo it took to kill her amounts to more dollars lost than she could ever shoplift for. Did the store get their money back? No? Then what the fuck was the point? Who was actually helped that day?
The point of having police is to make society livable. This seems to be the opposite of that.
Regardless, her trying to run one of the cops down is only going to end 1 way.
Exactly. I get the hate on police, and frankly they did initiate the situation here and should have handled things better, but ultimately if you intentionally drive a vehicle into someone responding with a gun is warranted.
The phrase “the police should have handled it better but…” should just be outlawed. I guess it does let everyone know to never have a conversation with whoever says it though, so I guess there’s that.
I didn’t call them an asshole, I said they were behaving like one. I assume they’re perfectly capable of not acting that way and are just taking an opportunity where they feel they can get away with it.
The insult was in implying that what I say has no value simply because I’m pointing out the police aren’t the only ones who did things wrong here; rather than engaging and arguing ideas they made an ad hominem attack. Saying that in reply to me but directed at everyone else is incredibly rude.
From what I could see, the gun was out first. Most people go their whole lives without having a gun pointed at them. How you will respond is very unpredictable. Panic sets in - it doesn’t seem real. Cops are (or at least should be) trained on how to handle life or death situations- ordinary people are not.
The gun was drawn when she started turning the wheel to drive around the officer stood in front. You can hear it coming out of its holster, and you don’t see it before then.
However, I’m not condoning the officer’s behaviour here. They created the situation, they should have known better, both reasonably and from their training. What they did was essentially a form of entrapment.
All I’m saying is that she made a mistake herself also by driving the car towards him, and, regardless of whether it’s a police officer or a regular human being, responding with a gun is most likely going to be justified.
The thing is she didn’t floor it. Didnt even pull away quickly. He could have stepped out of the way… he in fact did, right after he pulled the trigger and shot her. He literally stood in front of the car, pulled his gun and basically said “move the car and you die”. He put himself in harms way, pulled his gun and escalated the situation.
This will in all likelihood be deemed a justified shooting by the police and court, but with a little compassion from the officer it could have ended without this lady being dead. Bet he doesn’t even care.
Yeah I was thinking the same, she moved very cautiously forwards, he then basically climbed onto the hood and shot her. She was being so careful he had the perfect shot lined up.
This will in all likelihood be deemed a justified shooting by the police and court,
Almost certainly - but I would still say this is more or less rightly so. Maybe they can successfully argue that she wasn’t trying to kill him, she was trying to drive around him, based on evidence from the video. Normally a court would give the benefit of the doubt to the victim of having a car driven towards them, but if that doubt can be proven with video then that’s another matter.
but with a little compassion from the officer it could have ended without this lady being dead. Bet he doesn’t even care.
He definitely wanted to shoot from the start. He initiated that whole situation to give himself justification to draw, he created the opportunity to kill her. A lack of compassion is an understatement.
It’s indeed not the job for the police to solve poverty and I’m sure this woman has her problems.
None of that excuses what happened. They should never have pulled their guns. That police officer should not have been standing in front of the car. The woman tried to run away, nit murder a cop. The officer was standing in the most dangerous nokace he could, I’m arguing that that was in purpose. “I’ll stand where if you make a move you might kill me, giving me reason to shoot you”
Even that car not having license plates excuses anything. Then follow her, distantly. She’ll stop somewhere, pick her up there.
Hell, even letting her go is preferable to this outcome. It doesn’t matter that his woman had kids since she was 15, it’s irrelevant. It doesn’t matter that she is poor, uneducated, it’s all irrelevant.
The point is that police in the US is horribly educated, and has a terrible culture. They need to be educated for years, not 6 months. They need to get a culture of “we are to protect and serve” instead of “we are Rambo Cowboy”. They need to learn to calm and deescalate every situation they arrive in, not always make shit worse
I already said that they shouldn’t have drawn weapons didn’t I?
Your story about how they should follow her from a distant and stop her once she gets out is just fantasy. That’s also not where the fault lies.
Her trying to run one over is vehicular assault at best. Yes. The police stood there on purpose. To make sure she didn’t take off. That’s fine. Dare I say common procedure in multiple countries, not just the US.
Pretty sure it’s been stated everywhere that their education and work culture is a big problem. I agree. The police conduct that lead up to the shooting was poor. I agree.
The moment she tries to run one over. It was only going to end 1 way.
I’m agreeing with you in my first comment so I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue.
Your story about how they should follow her from a distant and stop her once she gets out is just fantasy.
It’s reality in countries with police officers who had an actual education and training though. Let the “criminals” go for now, pick them up later. In this case, it would have saved two lives.
Yes, when it’s deemed that approaching the criminal in public poses an imminent danger to the public.
Or if they have reason to believe that the Alleged shoplifting is organized, They might hold of to later follow them home and conduct a search of the home for evidence of more stolen items.
Are suggesting she’s either a danger to the public or part of organized shoplifting?
Or when approaching a SUSPECT (she wasn’t convicted of anything) causes danger to the suspect itself, for example.
Let’s say that she is mentally ill, just to make the point. Are we going to do the same? Stand in front of the car, she gets a panic attack and just drives without thinking because of me tal illness. Are we going to shoot her too?
Oh wait, that is what is happening all the time in the USA where innocent civilians with mental illnesses are murdered by police because police in the US isn’t trained to do their job right. This is actual realiti there.
Again, had these police officers been trained properly, she (and her unborn baby) would still be alive today.
Okay, question: are you okay with police shooting the mentally ill when they’re having some episode? That, instead of controlling the situation and making sure that everyone gets out safely?
And if you’re not, then why are you okay with them shooting a pregnant woman that likely got scared after they drew their weapons on her?
Did I not explicitly say, multiple times. They shouldn’t have had weapons drawn?
What you’re being caught up on. Is her choosing to run an officer down and then be like woah… they shot for that?
This woman was for all we know. Sane. She would have known that if you try to run over a cop. They’re going to shoot you. Even if everything that lead up to that was the police mistake. She sealed her fate on her own with her last action. The police was wrong for handling the situation poorly. She was wrong for trying to run them over.
Let me put it this way for you. Think this sums up my feelings towards the situation:
I know that a semi-truck is supposed to, by law. Stop for me at a pedestrian crossing without lights. I have the right of way. That doesn’t mean I’m just gonna go for it without looking. Because I don’t want to die.
Is it the trucks fault for plowing through a pedestrian crossing and not seeing me? Yes.
Could I have also done something to prevent the situation? Yes.
I would say it’s mostly my fault for not looking before crossing. Because I’m a fully functioning adult that knows i should look before crossing. I’m the one getting hurt by my own action.
If I’m in a car and there is a guy standing with a gun drawn and pointed at me… I might get scared and flee. That is not crazy, that is human behaviour.
If a police officer is stupid enough to stand in front of a car it kinda shoes his education and training level. Non existent. That is the entire problem.
Blame this woman all you want. I don’t know of she stole from the store or not but it’s irrelevant. She was shot because she was suspected of shoplifting. The woman and these police officers made all this happen together. The only difference is that the police officers are supposed to know better, they are supposed to know how to do their job, how to deescalate and they didn’t.
The second they drew their guns they were wrong, they were escalating the situation. They could kmhave kept their guns holstered as they were in no danger. The girl got scared and wanted to run off. LET HER. you can catch her later, it’s not as if she was a criminal mastermind. She did not deserve to die because of this
I really don’t have anything more to add. You can stop strawmanning this into oblivion with statements I’ve already said I agree with.
I never said she deserved to die. I never said they were right to draw weapons. So I’m not sure why you keep pushing those points. For the 8:th time now. I agree.
I blame the cops for escalating the situation. I blame the woman for her last action of trying to run them over.
Two wrongs does not make a right.
If you see it differently that’s ok. But don’t go putting words into my mouth I never once said or hinted at.
I’m not sure what words I was putting in your mouth but from what you’re saying er pretty much agree.
The woman may be a criminal (or not) and yeah, she should not have tried to escape though maybe she panicked with the guns, who knows. The police officers are very much in the wrong, they should not have been standing in front of the car, they should not have drawn their guns, they should have deescalated the situation.
Blocking the way of escape is common practise pretty much everywhere. Even here where I live, where police-school lasts for 2.5 years, rather than 6 months.
Oh I believe you that this is done everywhere in the US, and it shows.what other civilized country has so many cases of police shooting and killing people for tiny offenses?
It’s again an extreme lack of training. You can just let them go and resolve the situation later, or do a list of other things than deciding to stand in front of the car and then claim your life was in danger because you were standing in front of the car…
This shit hardly ever happens in other countries, only in the US is this a multiple per day occurrence. Doesn’t that make you think that US police officers should receive better training?
Mind you, the 6 months is in a good state, there are many way worse. And then there is the problem that many police officers get trained with pseudo science and outright bullshit. So if these police officers magically get 2.5 years of education, good on them. Of they stand in front of cars to block them, then I can already tell you want kind of education they get.
Oh I believe you that this is done everywhere in the US
Believe it or not. But the US is not the entire world. I’m not talking just the US when I say everywhere.
This shit hardly ever happens in other countries
As in police standing in front of cars? Happens in tons of countries.
As in frequency police shootings? We’ve already mentioned and talked about the lack of training. Like so many times. Why are you continuing to argue and debate about stuff we already agree upon?
This 21 Year old has a 6 and 3 year old sons. I’ll let you do the math on that. But it adds up to before some states had bans.
First of all, red states made it next to impossible to get abortions even when it was legal. Also, they cost money. Contrary to apparent popular belief, George Soros or the DNC don’t just appear to fund every abortion. Or, sometimes people are Catholic, which is fucking stupid, but maybe there’s some family shit you don’t know about. Especially for a minor trying to get an abortion. Again, contrary to popular belief, they weren’t just being handed out for free on every corner to every 16 year old who wanted one. There were still a million obstacles long before the Dobbs decision.
Second, “I’ll let you do the math” is a judgey, self-righteous, and gross statement.
So some neckbeard republicans are going to come out and say “She should have just complied”, but honestly what is the absolute worst scinerio if she WAS shop-lifting? In what world is it not a better option to just get her FUCKING CAR’S license-plate number, track her to her house, then arrest her there when she’s clearly cornered? Or just boot her car when it’s found again and force her to come to you to get it off?
Because now you’ve killed a woman and her unborn baby over some God damn groceries.
What I want to do is make a satirical video game about complying perfectly with a police officer’s requests, and show just how hard it is.
Throw in mixups where the player might be confronted by armed criminals, just to make sure players instill themselves with a sense of self-preservation.
I thought it wasn't about her shoplifting? Make up your mind.
Oh, I'm sorry. It's not about any of that, is it? It's just about whatever you need to excuse a government agent murdering an American citizen without a proper trial by jury.
Do us all a favor and never pretend you respect the United States Constitution ever again.
You can clearly see her turn the wheel away from the officer, and she doesn’t slam on the gas, she just accelerates at a normal speed. Not that that matters to you, you just love jacking off to pigs murdering people and don’t want to question for one second how shoplifting and resisting arrest is supposed to justify murder
If she was trying to run him over, she did a really shitty job. The cop put himself in front of the vehicle and she turned her steering wheel the wrong direction and didn’t slam the accelerator. I think if anything the cop was trying to be run over, not the other way around.
You’re not getting it. He wasn’t trying to defend himself, he was intentionally putting himself in a place of danger to justify murder in the name of defense.
Amazing how cops are put in that position. Putting yourself intentionally in a place of danger to do your job. We have to thank every single one of them
She clearly did not have intent. The cop just placed himself in front of the car. If he wasn’t there she still would have driven forward. She didn’t drive forward because he was there. It wasn’t intent to run him over, it was intent to flee. The cop had intent to be in the cars path though.
Except that guy isn’t dead. The woman is. The cop has plenty of opportunities to do a really big part of his job, de-escalate, rather than do the opposite, position himself in front of her vehicle and immediately point a gun at her. He went right for the death threat and almost immediately delivered.
The cop deliberately walked in front of her car and pointed a gun at her. She panicked. I’d probably panic too if someone pointed a gun at me. Granted, I probably wouldn’t have drove forward, but it was entirely possible for the cop to not have walked in front of her car, for him not to have pulled a gun. It seems like him pulling the gun is what caused this.
Isn’t it kinda stupid of the police officer to put himself in that dangerous position. He could just as well have let her go and find her later or follow her. Trying to stop a car by standing in front of it is imo. just stupid and unprofessional.
This exactly how it works in normal countries. She was not robing a bank she was just shop lifting. You get the license plates and invite her to court some time later.
Nah, you don’t get to just drive away from the police anywhere, sorry. Most would use less lethal means to stop her, but I don’t think any competent force would just let her leave.
Can’t speak for anywhere else, but can speak for personal experience, here in Italy “take the license plate” or “get in the police car and follow her” would be our procedure. She has not pulled out a weapon, and law enforcement is not supposed to escalate anything, ever. (Exceptions might apply, poorly trained officers exists). Even if she pulled a gun, probably we’d just try to evacuate everyone in the area and call for reinforcements before thinking of pulling out our firearms.
On average we get 5 police deaths in a year out of about 300-350 thousands agents, so I guess it works well enough.
(and yes, I do realize that in US there’s a lot of armed and trigger happy civilians, but that’s just another issue to solve. If a civilian needs a gun for self protection , there’s something really really wrong with society in my opinion)
Nor would any competent force give an ultimatum of “stop or die” over a trivial crime. Most countries would get in their car and try to follow safely, if that wasn’t possible you run the plates and send a summons. A hand should never be near a gun in this situation.
Driving a car without plates is extremely common in this area. It has been ever since they suspended registration requirements during Covid. I see multiple cars without plates every time I go for a drive.
I didn’t know that there was any place in the United States that did not require license plates. There were/are a lot of people asking why the cops didn’t just get the number off her license plates and arrest her later. The simplest answer to that is that the car didn’t have plates on it, but I don’t think that fact played any role in the decisions made by the involved parties. Though, I could be wrong about that.
That’s not how plates are obtained. It has nothing to do with it. When buying a car from a dealership new, they submit all the paperwork, and your plates are sent to you within a month. If it’s used, it should already have a plate, but you can still get one from the DMV through online services in almost every state.
Not having a plate is usually someone avoiding tolls or red light cameras or some other petty crime thing. And to play devils advocate, I suppose it could have been stolen, too.
This area doesn’t have tolls or red light cameras.
Dealers don’t submit paperwork for you to get plates unless you pay extra for the service. Otherwise you get a 45 day temporary tag.
If you buy used in a private sale, then you get nothing. You have to go buy plates. There is no transfer of plates between private parties in Ohio when doing a private sale.
I don’t think the plates would have been in the video frame at any point if they had been on the car. I don’t know if there are any pictures of the scene or not.
Woman scared for her life because officers immediately pointed guns at her for no reason is proven correct when killed by officers for no reason. Just another day in America. Cops just love pulling their guns and using them for no good reason. The only time a cop should be pointing a gun at someone like this is if their life is in immediate danger from that person.
How would society feel if these weren’t cops? If a guy just runs up to your car pointing a pistol at your head you aren’t going to be calm and rational. It’s bullshit we expect anyone to be.
You watch the video?.. Cars get closer to killing me in a parking lot once a month or more. He easily moved out of the way after murdering her. The car was barely moving.
This incident is exactly why that’s justified. Her life was in danger, that cop was clearly itching for a reason to kill her or he wouldn’t have stepped in front of the car. She ran because it was probably her best chance of not getting killed
I mean, I kinda can. We’ve all seen too many videos where police officers pull people out of cars in these situations, she was pregnant… People of color end up dead on the ground outside of that car even if they did nothing wrong, all the time. Even more commonly they get thrown around and beaten. Pregnant woman don’t normally want to get thrown around or beaten.
I want to posit first that this is a satirical answer, and I am not encouraging this in the slightest, just that this might be the “cornered logic” equation that is given to suspects being confronted by police:
Plan B: You whip out a pistol you bought from the gun store, shoot all of the cops that are about to shoot you, and drive off to go live in a different state so it’s hard to follow you.
I would hope and predict that most people committing petty crimes like shoplifting or drugs would not want to hurt anyone, much less a cop, but when that is THE ONLY answer you can give that has a strong chance of survival in the face of the articles everyone has seen, it begs the need for a different answer - one in which there is ZERO chance of a cop killing an unarmed person for petty crime, and attempted evasion of arrest for said petty crime.
When the police are increasingly known and proven to kill people for next to no reason at all, it’s quite difficult to blame a person for being afraid of them when confronted.
This is yet another example of a police officer getting minimal training, 6 months and here you have a gun, now go be Rambo. Coooool!
In North western Europe, police officers require good education to even be able to start their police officer education. Then it’s 4 years of learning to get to a point that they can call themselves a basic police officer.
Wanna go anything beyond that? Be a detective? More schooling.
In the US they explicitly filter on getting dumber people, they give no adequate training at all, don’t tech them de-escalation, etc.
Couple that with a police force that has a ver “we protect eachother over protecting them”
Couple that with a culture that is much more authoritive. Freedom? Hah! Obey! That kid smokes a joint? Toss him in jail!
Couple that with a justice system that is much more focussed on punishment instead of rehabilitation.
Couple that with an endless supply of guns out in the street.
Seriously, how is anyone surprised that this shit happens all the time?
Maybe some countries in North Western EU, but not North Western Europe. The UK is the most North Western part of Europe and they most definitely do not require that level of competence lol.
Absolutely, but they don’t have any particular educational requirements. At least, not publicly. I imagine they have internal guidelines but can bend them for a candidate that convinces then to.
Everybody has to start somewhere and there are different types of police officers. Those that write only parking tickets do not have the same level of training as the ones with the guns.They still receive better training than anywhere in the US and there are still factors less killings every day by police than in the US.
You’re speaking as if I’m saying anything about whether that’s good or bad. All I did was offer the correction that European police aren’t necessarily well educated.
First off, I wish they would show the full uncut raw footage. People need to see the reality of getting shot.
Second, he literally just pulls the gun out and says “get out of the car.” Like, what the fuck man? Get out of the car or I’m going to shoot you? For stealing from a fucking kroger? One of the biggest businesses in the US?
Dude. This is bullshit. He needs criminal charges.
If only there was some sort of metallic plate attached to the car that could be used as an identifier, which combined with police footage of the thief could be used to safely locate them, with nobody needing to draw a gun unless there was immediate danger.
It’s a good thing you refuted my attempt to restrict people from seeing things. I was literally gouging people’s eyes out with a fork, destroying all computer screens and light bulbs, bringing a new age of permemant darkness so that nobody shall ever behold the glorious videos of preggos getting riddled with bullets… until One True Hero had the courage to Rise Up against my reign of tyranny and said,
No it isn’t. The distance she could travel was not sufficient to achieve the force needed to make a lethal incident possible. Unless the cop decided to place their head in front of the wheel there is no way for the car to kill them.
You joke, but this number is probably still too high. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if shareholders technically lost money due to the interruption of potential customers by all the commotion.
They could just let her go. They know what she looks like and they know the car she’s in. Unless she goes on the lam for a few bottles of booze it seems easier and safer to follow up with her a day or two later for what is presumably a misdemeanor.
Wow, you’re really bending over backwards to defend a murder. The cops started with guns. They had her on video and had her license plate. They didn’t even have to stop here then and there. They shot her and her child dead when the only thing they had to do to secure their safety was back down, but they are incapable of anything but escalation so instead of any one of the infinite possible peaceful reasonable paths to resolution…murder.
Have you not kept up with American news. Chips be killing people and then getting away with it. Be asleep in your bed, dead. Answer your door, dead. Cops only shot first and make excuses why it’s your fault later.
In that situation and really most involving cops, the have guns you aren’t.
The cops are generally cool when the the people are
This is a lie. I wish we lived in a world where cops were good and could be trusted but that’s not the world Americans live in.
Normal people don’t step in front of moving vehicles in order to create a situation where you can justify murdering someone. The cop should have taken one step to the side, or simply not put himself in harm’s way to begin with. Even a normal person knows you don’t jump in front of a moving vehicle. Cops are trained to keep themselves out of harm’s way, but this idiot skipped “don’t play in traffic” day at the academy. Cops are also trained not to shoot into moving vehicles because that creates a totally uncontrollable danger to bystanders. He skipped that day too.
Thank God the brave officer decided to stand in front of the car and shoot her to death, otherwise she may have escaped with the $30 of alcohol. Also she might have drank the alcohol, so it doesn’t really matter that her and her child are dead.
I don’t understand why the cops couldn’t just arrest her at home. They would’ve had positive identification, AND footage of her committing another crime by fleeing the scene. This was escalated into a life or death situation, and I can’t honestly say that’s entirely her fault.
Police step in front of cars quite a bit. There’s a lot of footage out there showing incidents of vehicles trying to flee for whatever reason and an officer deliberately positioning themselves in front of the vehicle.
The vehicle heading towards the officer or striking the officer opens the door to escalated action on the part of the officers and that includes shooting and killing occupants.
It’s straight up bullshit justifying the use of deadly force.
This woman shoplifted. They have the car license plate, her on video conducting the theft with witnesses to the fact…she’s not going to get away with it. Yet the solution is to position oneself in front of the car, where any fool knows you might get struck, to kill someone over booze?
You can blame the thief for being a dumbass, but fuck cops for escalating something like this to deadly force when they could’ve stepped out of the way and picked her up later. Fucking drop a couple rounds into the engine, it won’t make it more than a couple blocks after it dumps the oil and coolant out…
OMG, I saw this story on FB, AND every fucking comment was praising the cop! Telling her she deserved it for trying to run away… things like she would have been a terrible mom anyways… just some awful things while the run their hard ons for the cops… It was sickening… I am 23 weeks pregnant with my second son right now and watching people praise her death because she stole something is so bizarre and jarring… I’m pregnant… What if this was a misunderstanding and he had bad information… she didn’t steal a thing and scared of cops tried to get away and now she is dead… Cops are fuckiing scary but not as much as people who want this outcome for stealing some groceries
Edit: some of these comments defending the cop, who put his life in danger on his own so he could have the excuse to kill her, is chilling… You are the reason I made my comment and the reason why I am getting scared of my community… because too many of the people in society want to see someone from some group they hate, hurt or dead by police… Fucking sickening. Shoplifting is not an excuse to use lethal force to stop anyone… the punishment doesn’t fit the crime… people saying it does, are rabid dogs who wish it was them in the cops shoes, feeling powerful… and that’s even more sickening. She left behind a 6 year old because thd pig couldnt have figured out another way to handle the situation… he failed a basic IQ test and too many people are like… “Kay, cool”. Idiocracy was and is a fucking a documentary and y’all just want a gladiator type entertainment with your own people
You really need to reevaluate your thinking if you think untrained civilians have a higher burden than supposedly trained professionals, especially after watching that video
She cranked the wheel all the way away from him. She was trying to go around. Officer “no self preservation” was a dipshit and blocked in a two ton machine with his own body.
Yep and for people in the US they should been keenly aware that there’s a non zero possibly of being shot by police if they feel threatened. That’s just how it is.
Doesn’t matter in the slightest if this is the “right way to handle this”, it’s the reality of the situation where it’s pretty well documented that they’re going to choose their lives over yours if you give them a reason to (say for example driving your car directly at them like a braindead moron)
… You take two steps to the left to move out of the way of the car, or, here’s a fantastic idea, you don’t step out in front of a fucking car in the first place???
Doesn’t matter? This woman was almost a child herself, she lost her life at 21 years old over a bunch of power tripping cops. How fucking dare you. You need to reevaluate what matters.
Part of being a an officer is being able to keep your shit together when civilians do not. Don’t sit here and act like you’d think rationally while a bunch of guns are pointed at you knowing damn well your chances of survival are significantly lower just because your skin is a different color. I seriously cannot grasp how you’re okay writing these comments. You should be ashamed of yourself, seriously.
Don’t they spend like 1000 hours training people about all the safety precautions of a standard road stop, since it has about a dozen dangers - and “standing directly in front of a suspect’s vehicle” ranks somewhere among the dumbest things you can do?
Heck, I caution myself against doing it even when walking around the city, even if all I want to do is warn someone about an obstacle. I’m no freaking roadblock.
Always interesting that people demand average citizens behave more reasonably than so-called trained police. It’s like you accept the presumption that any cop is likely to overreact in murder, therefore the onus is on US not to escalate situations. Interesting how the apologists don’t think cops bear any responsibility for de-escalation.
You keep saying that. "Trying to run over ". No fucking way you could convince me that she wanted to run over that cop! If she wanted him dead, why didn’t she just punch it? Floor the peddle and turn the wheel toward him.
You’re being disingenuous Monday morning qb’ing. Police are supposedly trained in de-escalation. I am not excusing the behavior, but I can understand a random untrained citizen having fear and unpredictable bad decision-making in a situation like this. Whereas the cops absolutely have countless other things they could do that are calmer and more de-escalating.
Ultimately, basic theft isn’t worth death. The problem is that cops have unilaterally decided it is completely unacceptable to not listen to them, up to death. They could have followed her. They could have let her go. There are numerous alternatives that could have happened. Cops in America have endlessly shown they are trigger happy twitchy and rushing to escalate.
The burden is on trained police to behave better than a random person does. This doesn’t excuse her behavior. But the cops are NOT justified either.
Given your capacity for intelligence you’re probably below the max IQ limit for hiring US cops, you should apply, you get to shoot innocent unarmed civilians for misdemeaner crimes while pretending that your own life threatening actions were their fault and you still get the advantage of other braindead troglodytes like yourself defending your murder of a non shoplifter for non compliance, for a crime with no death penalty.
Judge Dredd wasn’t a guidebook on policing you deranged bootlicking homunculus.
How about maybe the police firstly don’t escalate the situation to that point because she was just accused of shoplifting and secondly don’t jump in front of her car in the first place?
Gosh man that must’ve been scary as hell. Glad everything worked out. Did he just draw? Did he point it at you? Did you ignore his order to stay in the car in the first place?
i swear this isn’t an attempt to correlate your story with the story we’re commenting on, but in you’re story specifically do you think that drawing his weapon in your case was justified?
The full story is, I was drunk, my DD was getting a speeding ticket. It was a long ass drive home, so I got out to smoke after she takes all the initial paperwork and goes back to the car.
We are pretty clearly not a threat. Me, wife 2 kids. I’m pretty hammered and it seemed like a good idea.
I know better than to get out during a traffic stop.
But the cop got back out of her car, immediately drew and screamed at me to get back in the car. I did so and ate a speech about how dumb I was.
Do I think the cop was justified in drawing? Absolutely. We are on the side of the highway, in the dark, and the cop didn’t have backup. I fully accept that I fucked up when I got out of the car. You just don’t do that during a routine stop without asking permission first.
Let’s say at that point, instead of getting back in, I turn on the cop and advance on her and have some attitude about her yelling and pointing the gun…at that point she’d be justified in shooting me.
TLDR…I fucked up, the cop did the right thing in that situation, and while scary as hell, the cop was in the right the whole time. My
Well that’s a shity outlook when the cop was trying stage a suicide to have a reason to fire his gun… again he put him self there by choice, he could have chose to move aside and track her… but he chose a method that he could abuse for the reason to fire his gun and punish her for testing his authority… Is sad you can’t see or understand that… or that you are okay with being shot… But during the protests, when people would zoom their cars in to.the crowds to get away from the people, was totally justified… the irony is insane…
She got shot over driving at a police officer standing in front of her car. The fact that it escalated to that is a pretty bizarre series of events though.
She got shot over driving at a police officer standing in front of her car.
Framed differently, a cop moved in front of her car for an excuse to shoot her. He could just as easily NOT have moved in front of the car and/or have taken a step back like any normally functioning human being would have done.
I don’t think /u/Ilovethebomb was trying to defend it. He’s just adding context. She didn’t only get shot for shoplifting. The shoplifting initiated an interaction with the police that escalated. She started driving away and the cops tried to physically stop the car with their bodies. So one of the cops panicked and shot.
Of course there are many issues - why were the cops pointing guns at her in the parking lot while she was in the car? Certainly didn’t help with de-escalation. I hope the cop who fired the shot and is under investigation gets criminal charges.
Exactly, saying things like she was “murdered in cold blood” doesn’t help anyone, because you’re that far off the deep end nobody outside of your echo chamber will take you seriously.
There have been a few people reply to me saying that, despite what happened, the police could and should have done something different. And they’re probably right, I don’t know how we got from shoplifting to this, but there were probably opportunities to defuse the situation.
Shoplifting is not a death sentence. Driving away from police is illegal, but not a death sentence. She’s trying to leave? Fine, step to the side, take her plate number, and put out a warrant. At no time was it necessary for him to pull out his gun.
But she didn’t even commit shoplifting, she was wrongfully accused and the car rolled after she was dead and her corpse failed to keep pressure on the brake.
Literally the only thing she did was fail to comply with demands to exit the vehicle and turn the steering wheel in an attempt avoid the officer before being shot.
So what she did was not listen violent and angry people who have full privilege to shoot indiscriminately and was shot for it.
I can pretend she did nothing wrong happily, because she barely did anything at all other than be a victim.
No. They’ve had their chances. None can leave without rigorous testing first. We don’t want to end up with another America just in a different location.
“Shoplifting” Technically the correct term but the store named is Kroger. That’s a grocery store if you don’t know. Doubt this pregnant woman was stealing jewelry.
Also depends who they’re stealing from though. Massive corporation… I didn’t see shit. A small family run restaurant struggling to get by then I saw it with both eyes.
Would it be okay to steal from a family-run restaurant if the family lives in a $300k house and has no real financial troubles beyond keeping up with the Jones’?
Dang - today I learned it’s okay to rob me after a lifetime of successful decisions. Noted. This is how republicans are born btw… lucky for society the grand ole wizard party is unviable nowadays!
This is run of the mill for Ohio cops. I grew up there, I’ve seen it all my life. They are a reckless, racist, violent group of thugs with the mentality of the KGB. If you’re ever so unfortunate as to find yourself there, and in the presence of one, LEAVE. don’t do a fuckin thing that might garner their attention.
They’re also fanatical about pulling people over, they’ll pull you over for ANYTHING. and if you’re not the whitest of white, you’re gonna have a real bad time.
That’s why I kind of prefer news about convictions and sentences rather than the crimes committed. In 9 years when and if they are finally convicted I will at least know if justice was served and what the final context was.
The cop was in the front corner of the car, so I imagine it will be dismissed for self defense easily in these kinds of scenarios since the cop had a risk of being run over? Haven’t seen how other cases involving potential hits turn out in the US
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