They remind me of the endless headlines over the years (decades, actually) of how the Republican party is ready to collapse or implode or explode or insert-other-ominous-word-here.
As with all those failed predictions of the GOP going the way of the dodo bird, until I see Trump in an orange jumpsuit I won’t believe any of the shit they claim will happen.
He is not as free as you might think. For example: If attempted to leave the country right now, he would be arrested. He cannot go anywhere without a secret service detail and he isn’t legally allowed to drive himself anymore. He is being watched and monitored all day, every day.
Hopefully, when he sentenced he will actually be put behind bars and not on “house arrest” in a mansion.
He is more free and privileged than any person in the entire country who works a job and pays rent. House arrest for him is a vacation to 98% of Americans.
That should never be acceptable so long as anyone else would suffer in a cement cell prison until they were executed for this.
The GOP dies with the Boomers so we still have a bit before it goes away. The DNC will become the new right but it will be because the center moves left and a Progressive Party is formed.
Looking at all the MAGA rallies over the last years, it looked like most attendants were significantly younger than Boomer age. Same with the guys who fly Trump flags on their pickup trucks. Same with the January 6 crowd. Same with the Proud Boys. Same with Bikers for Trump. Same with Moms for Liberty.
I think it’s wishful thinking to believe that the GOP will just disappear when the last Boomer dies. The GOP has already transformed into the party of Trump over the last couple of years, and it will keep on transforming.
It would take significantly more than old people dying fit them GOP to vanish.
MAGA is made up of people who are the scum of society. Criminals, con artists, drug dealers, etc… Hopefully you don’t think that is who the majority of voters are.
As the saying goes, “If there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.”
I don’t care how many Republicans are troubled by Trump’s behavior, I don’t care how many Republicans think he’s a bit too much, I don’t care how many Republicans dislike the MAGA movement.
Talk is cheap.
74 million voters decided that they wanted Trump to be president for another term in 2020, decided to give Trump their vote, decided to support Trump.
The Freedom Caucus is the bloc that is trying to pull the GOP further to the right. The Freedom Caucus is where all the Obama hating Tea Party radical agitators ended up. The Freedom Caucus is completely aligned with Trump.
From your own link:
After hardline House conservatives aggravated GOP leaders by halting the chamber floor in protest, the Freedom Caucus — which most of the agitators call home — is growing in numbers.
The Trump-aligned bloc admitted two new members this week
There are an awful lot of prominent Republicans among Gen-X and Millennials. 36-year-old grandmother Lauren Boebert; 41 year old Matt Gaetz; 49 year old MTG. Milo Yiannopoulos is 39. The “Proud Boys” founder is 39. Founder of the Oathkeepers is 57 (just barely Gen-X). College Republicans are a thing.
Their voters are Boomers. The majority of Gen X doesn’t vote at all and the majority that do are Democrat. Millennials vote more often and align left. Zoomers are still to young but appear to be majority left.
This is a pretty big oversimplification. Here’s a Pew research chart on the last few elections by party and age. The age of voters on both parties is high, but note that the difference between the number of younger Republicans isn’t wildly different from the number of younger Democrats. Also note that the percentage over 65 is pretty small
Unfortunately it’s a very sheltered thought bud. Wherever you live, all the boomers must be the republicans.
Where I live I see teenagers in maga hats regularly. When I meet someone who isn’t a hardline Trump supporter it literally shocks me.
Things might go back to some sanity at some point, but it’s hard to imagine when everyone is being radicalized every day through extreme forms of media on the internet.
When I was younger I fully believed that the world would become more progressive because, well, progress. Most of the more liberal kids I grew up with are hardcore republicans coming up on their 40s now posting liberal tears memes.
I don’t know. Maybe we’ll get lucky. I definitely hope we do.
There are plenty of rightwing pipelines out there for young people, regardless of their parents. With people like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson, along with a much more online life so they can find and reinforce each other, I’d say it’s a much friendlier environment for right wing radicalization among young people than 20-30 years ago. The backbone of the Republican party may be old bigots, but at least some people in the movement are working very hard to generate young bigots to replace them and racism, sexism, and transphobia aren’t things only old people are prone to.
It’s always going to be two parties, because any other arrangement just hurts the parties with more in common. What does happen is one dies and a new party rises to replace it. For more simultaneous parties we need to (and should) change our voting system.
I agree they won't die but they will take a hit. As of 2021, 23% of Americans aged 18 to 29 are conservative, compared to 45% of Americans aged 65 and up.
It not archaic, but the republican party will have to make shifts to survive, whether that be further gerrymandering states to favor them, or pivoting on toxic policies, but the real truth is they lost a whole generation
They won't die, but if they make no changes, they will be referenced like today's green party. No one will think them capable of winning an election.
I think putting the former POTUS in solitary confinement indefinitely is probably too cruel even for his largest detractors. I mean that's straight torture.
Not to mention he can still blab to the guards and clearing guards is more trouble than its worth. Most likely he'll be confined to house arrest for his sentence. Hopefully he'll be banned from using the internet or engaging with media agencies.
As a San Franciscan I’m not sure if I’m offended by the idea of him being that close, or intrigued by the idea of being able to hop a boat to go point and laugh at him
McCain vs Obama to Trump vs Biden is a much different landscape now. Republicans are a mess, stand for nothing and most voters who aren’t die hard Trumpers are lost looking for christo-fascists or “libertarians” but ideologically all these groups have no platform, plan or face in the US.
And on top of that despite what media sells, people are sick of the clearly fake culture war. It might get the baboons screeching but most people do not care anymore
No way. Look at Bush. Protection of marriage act? The patriot act that created the NSA? They were just more polite about being the same judgemental authoritarian assh*les.
This is like a child finding out what hotdogs are actually made of.
The hotdogs haven’t changed no matter how grossed out you are by the truth of the matter.
It’s the same goddamn bullshit. How do you people not see this?? Since Reagan the GOP party is the same worthless piece of human garbage. They might fly a “compassionate conservative” banner this year, or pretend to be “tea party” lunatics the next, but they are the same scumbags pushing essentially the same awful policies for decades now. Pro-business, pro-ultra rich, anti-worker, anti-consumer, pro-military, anti-education, anti-abortion, pro-jebus, pro-guns, pro-limited-government-except-for-things-they-care-about-and-then-in-that-case-the-sky-is-the-limit.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED. They can put lipstick on a pig or horse or anything in between, but the core of that awful party stays the same and in the end they vote in unison nearly every single time.
You need to realize: Republicans were lying back then, too. Those are talking points for them, not fundamental beliefs.
The only difference now is they’re just telling you what they mean instead of couching it in dog whistles, like “urban” (black) problems, or the Satanic Panic of the 80s and 90s…
They’re the same judgemental pricks. They’re only using meaner words these days.
They really weren’t tho. You had traditional conservatives (what, say, Trump pretends to be), small-business Chamber of Commerce conservatives, neocons, evangelicals, and some amount of neoliberals that identified as conservative, along with independents-who-trend-R like Libertarians.
There used to be very strong pro-welfare conservatives, pro-environment conservatives, etc sprinkled throughout the entire mix.
Those groups have been driven away or subsumed into nationalists and evangelicals.
Those other conservatives were only there because of the lies of the party.
What kind of legislation did they pass?
Abortion bans, protection of marriage acts, controlling sex ed in school, “patriot” acts that legalize spying on citizens, limits and controls on immigration, tax cuts and deregulation…
They’ve ALWAYS been judgemental monsters. Stop buying their lies. They aren’t even using them any more.
Are you literally fucking stupid? I have never and will never support monarchy. The fact you think that after this seriously means your brain is fucking broken.
I’m pushing against Republicans. I’m pushing against milk-toast Dems. I DO NOT support the CCP, Russia, or the USSR, because I’m not a fucking idiot that fetishizes authority.
This conversation started by me telling you the Republicans have always been evil. Then you took offense at me explaining gow that is obvious, and then you responded with an ad hominem. Grow the fuck up you literal child.
Why are you strawmanning my point by comparing him to Norway alone? Why are you insisting that the prrsence of a right wing indicates they’re not further left than us? Are you denying the very existence of right wing people outside of the US?
Remember: Many of those countries have proportional representation, so the mere presence of a ringht winger in a position of power is not an indication the entire place supports them.
@Hazdaz I kind of feel like the GOP has imploded, though. Since Trump especially (and really I think this strain of anti-democracy conservativism dates back to the 2000 election where they saw that they could just bully their way into stealing elections), there doesn't seem to be much of the Republican Party that preceeded him left. Now it's all antidemocratic fascists and nutjobs. Just because they call themselves Republicans and win elections doesn't mean their politics really has anything to do with what their party stands for on paper.
I think it's more a case of being careful what you wish for. Yes, they imploded. Yes, they don't really exist anymore. What has supplanted them is so much worse
I really hate this perspective. It’s just plain wrong.
Trump DID NOT change the Republican party. He only made them think the mask was no longer necessary. They’ve been pro war, pro tax cuts, pro business, pro rich, pro racism, and anti-democracy… for literally decades.
Now that they’re not using platitudes and not couching their rhetoric in obvious lies it’s suddenly evil?!
Yeah, I feel like the Republican Party has evolved (or devolved) into what they are now, but it’s not like they hadn’t already been moving in this direction anyways, he accelerated it if anything. Trump took advantage of a Party that wanted a “strongman”, he brought the racism, billionaire businessman background, toxic masculinity and performances you might normally see in wrestling back room drama or talk radio, and a feigned devotion to the Church (that was probably his weakest trait, thus Mike Pence). He brought together a lot of elements of the Republican Party that were already all there, just not really ever focused in one person with such a shitty moral compass and motivation to take advantage of the GOP. Pre-Trump, the GOP has mostly had boring business people like George Bush, Mitt Romney, Bob Dole, and Newt Gingrich and others, nobody really “inspiring” to them like Ronald Reagan.
I… I think you both are mostly saying the same thing. Just OP considers the “mask removal” a pretty big event (which I would agree with - we likely wouldn’t have gotten such extremist behavior with the alt-right if they hadn’t felt empowered by their figurehead).
They don’t seem to be defending pre-Trump republicanism - just saying that Trump caused a lot of really bad party puzzle pieces to fall into place, and effectively caused the party to implode, which IS shown by infighting, their abysmal midterm results (relative to how everyone expected them to perform), their inability to get on the same page with literally anything and, most of all, their donor money running dry
They would’ve done the same things, especially if they got the supreme court stacked like Trump did but without the extra drama.
It’d just be Mitt Romney spouting about protecting marriage and family values from erosion by all those miscreants instead of ol’ Marge TG spouting off about the drag queens grooming your kids at the library.
If anything, it’s actually a blessing Trump pulled the mask off. Now, only the truly dense or selfish fail to understand or admit how vile the Republican “leadership” is.
Whne you say same things, are tou also talking about January 6 and the increase in alt-right domestic terrorism? Because that would be where we disagree.
They’ve gotten more bold, yes, but it is CRITICAL to remember that these are the same conservatives with the same values they’ve had all along. They NEVER actually supported democracy. They just wanted to stay out of jail, and Trump made them think they might actually get away with it.
Hell, he wasn’t even the first time they rioted after losing an election. That happened in 2000, when paid republican operatives disrupted the recount that would have confirmed al gore as president long enough for the supreme court to step in and award the state (and, therefore, the presidency) to dubya without counting the votes at all. Google ‘brooks brothers riot’, several Republican staffers openly acknowledge that they were there to use violence in order to stop the votes from being counted despite initial claims that they were only there to observe the process and ensure that it was fair. This includes congressman John Sweeney, who said “What I essential told my people was ‘You’ve got to stop them.’” Trump thought he could get away with this because Bush already had gotten away with it. They even planned copycat riots in Arizona and Nevada in 2020 because it worked the first time.
In the last 30 years Republicans have won the presidency 3 times despite having only gotten more votes than the other guy once. They have had two riots after elections, one of which successfully delayed counting votes long enough for the Republican to be installed as president, and one which failed to delay certification long enough to install the Republican. They are against democracy and in favor of violence. They consistently act with those values in mind. They are enemies of democracy and freedom.
That happened in 2000, when paid republican operatives disrupted the recount that would have confirmed al gore as president long enough for the supreme court to step in and award the state (and, therefore, the presidency) to dubya without counting the votes at all. Google ‘brooks brothers riot’
It just completely blows my mind that this happened and, more so, that it was allowed to stand after the fact. I think I read somewhere that Gore decided not to contest it in order to not mess with the peaceful transfer of power, but man…
Just imagine how world events had played out if Al Gore had been president on and after September 11th, 2001. Imagine the progress we could have made on climate change 24 years ago. I understand that it’s pure speculation, that he could have been a lukewarm president. But come on, he would have been loads better that GWB even if all he did was twirl his fingers.
Absolutely based post. I’ve recognized what they truly were 20 years ago. There is a slight distinction - the republican party always had 4 stools (people used to say three stools but I never agreed).
First stool is the wealthy just wanting to make more money (tax cuts, tax welfare, regulation capture, etc). This is the true stool in power pulling the strings of all the other stools. They know they can never win a popular vote (why would the workers vote to lower their own wages?). They ride the Santa sled with the big bag of money, the reigns are connected to the lesser stools, and they ride that sled into the bank
Second stool is the religious vote - really captured by Reagan I believe with the invention of the abortion issue, but they go as far back as Goldwater I believe, because he warned about them. These are the reindeer of the money sled
Third stool is the racists, the KKK types in the south. These are also the reindeer
Fourth stool is what I consider the conspiracy theory crowd - they sort of share the stool with the uneducated morons who can’t seem to figure out what their best interests are (“get gobernment off my Medicare, vote republican”). This stool might fall under the “undecided” crowd by some metrics, but they fall victim to the usual right wing lies and propaganda all the fucking time, so I don’t see why we can’t just label them as they truly are, the useful idiot voters of the republican propaganda arm
As a whole, these groups are the same pieces of shit that love Trump because he’s talks to them with a bullhorn, not through dog whistles like previous republicans, that’s the difference some of you might not appreciate
Edit - one distinction I think is needed is the people who fell for the dog whistles were usually of the authoritarian/fascist type. For example, There were pretty decent religious people or business people who felt the wrong message was being presented by the republican party, but the authoritarians/fascists always fell in line behind the republicans/conservatives. Still the case today
Your fourth stool I think probably should be combined with gun owners & 2nd amendment folks as well. There’s been a persistent conspiracy theory that gets trotted out every year or so that Democrats are coming for their guns, though it’s not exactly a conspiracy, but the way it’s portrayed is as if it’s the first stage of Democratic Socialist Fascists kicking in your door and raping your grandma.
Yes, I think the 4th stool is shared by the single issue voter crowd - it’s sort of an umbrella, but it still in major part are the people who fall for the propaganda; say 2nd amendment issue, or trans bathroom issue, or Critical Race Theory (although that might be more of a 3rd stool strategy), or whatever the next wedge issue the right wing media industrial complex thinks of - these people will fall for it EVERY SINGLE TIME. Just major inability to understand nuance and complete lack of critical thinking, whatever the case may be (I’m sure we can talk about this 4th stool a lot. I would love to find a way to cogently sum them up)
Frankly, I’m surprised that the current slate of indictments haven’t extended to MTG, Boebert, Gaetz, and the rest of their traitor caucus compatriots.
I think it would be very hard to prosecute, because the Constitution gives direct protection to Members of Congress who are discussing matters at the Capitol in their official capacity, in the Speech and Debate clause. And since validating the Electoral College count is expressly spelled out in the Constitution as a thing Congress does, it will be hard to argue that the Speech and Debate Clause doesn’t apply.
MTG passed out pictures of Hunter’s penis in Congress, after all, and is not likely to face any repercussions at all. (If she does, it will be because she tweeted it, too.,…)
I think it all really depends on what you have evidence they said, saw and knew.
Yeah, I agree it will be impossible to convict a congressional rep for voting against certification. BUT if you have evidence that person was attending meetings where a criminal conspiracy was taking place and especially if you have evidence they were directed to stall, and especially if they knew what was to happen after the vote failed… Then idk maybe they can be charged as part of a conspiracy. But just voting NO on it? I don’t think that’s criminal in and of itself.
Or took people on tours so they knew where to go when they broke into one of our biggest buildings of power and tried to murder at least our vice president.
Really, you think so? Trump strikes me as a person who ultimately doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but himself when backed into a corner.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, I want to see them in jail, too, but I think just about any negative repercussions to his own life would hurt him more than seeing his kids suffer consequences. Push comes to shove, I can see him throwing those kids under a bus, even Ivanka.
Since we’re sure we would rather have rule of law Instead of a tyrant, we don’t get to make exceptions or pick when the rules apply. That we barely get a say in the rules is beside the point.
Anyway my only point here was actually more about how I’m not even sure Boebs was guilty enough of these charges. The prosecutors have a strong incentive to advance only the charges they can make stick, or the whole case could fail.
So there is a really real discussion within the Federal Government if Trump supporters in the Govt should be subject to a security review to have their clearances revoked for Anti-American sentiments and activities.
I cant even have a security review to have clearance before I get a job that requires it (and then what happens if you don’t?) but these people aren’t even reviewed?
Fuck, you want to talk about compromised information, that’s a fuckload of security risks
Review used to be every five to ten years, but the Biden Administration changed it to five last year for all clearances. What’s being discussed is if MAGA supporters should be reviewed deeper as they are a threat to National Security. Generally speaking how someone votes has not been an issue for clearance unless you were a member of the Communist party. The problem now is that being a member of the Republican Party doesn’t mean you support Trump but if you do support him you lable yourself as a threat. It’s a slippery slope. Security clearance checks scan your entire internet history going back seven years. We are seeing clearances denied due to Xbox conservations, loads for social media comments. The Security form you fill out requires you list every online handle you used over the last seven years. To not list one would be a criminal offense. So it’s become a problem that MAGA is running into, their online history is creating red flags. The discussion is do they start treating MAGA like Communists and blanket ban them from public service.
Yeah, that was new to the form. They review your finances, every location you traveled, every address you lived at, interview neighbors, coworkers, they will pull logs from social media like FB, Twitter, Reddit, Playstation and Xbox, the pull phone records and GPS data, text records, ISP records, etc. That is why people with a TS clearance should not be on social media at all. That form gives the Federal Government full access to your entire history for that seven year period to determine if you are trustworthy.
For a normal security clearance they don’t go as deep, usually just financial and review for any police reports, but all give the govt the right to search everything if need be.
It would be so fantastic is he actually did go to prison, but I just really don’t think it will happen. I hope I’m wrong and they throw MTG and Ted Zodiac Cruz in there with him for good measure.
He has lifetime Secret Service protection. Would they sit in the cell with him? Any time served would need to be in a secure, comfortable location. It would be a half-assed prison at best.
Entire Republican Party needs to be held accountable. Not just DJT. Every elected official who objected certifying 2020 election needs to be put on trial for perpetrating the lie and harming the democracy.
From what I heard a commentator say on TV last night, the move to federal court would be more so that the trail wouldn't be televised. The case would still be under Georgia law and it being tried in Federal court wouldn't change the fact that it wouldn't be pardonable by the governor or president.
Fundamental Trump legal strategy: sue over everything, appeal when you lose, hope the other side runs out of time, money, or patience. Sue over the evidence in the indictment. Sue over the venue. Sue over the prosecutor. Sue over the trial date. Sue over the jury. Sue over the courtroom lights…
The Atlantic had a blurb on it this morning. One of the problems is that constitutionally, the president has no role in their own election. Another problem is that… , I forget, here’s the article.
@Chainweasel Remember the January 6 rioters that got into the Senate chamber rifling through senator's desks? How when they came upon Ted Cruz's desk they started reading the speech he had left there, got all riled up about it, then one of the rioters stops them and says something to the effect of "this is Ted Cruz - it's okay. He's with us"?
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