Joe Biden calls trans people “fabric of our nation” in Trans Day of Visibility proclamation

In commemoration of the upcoming Transgender Day of Visibility (TDOV), President Joe Biden issued a statement praising trans people’s contributions to society and describing actions his administration has taken to counter transphobic bullying and extremism. Additionally, many members of Biden’s Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) also issued their own statements affirming that community health depends on supporting trans people too.

“Transgender Americans are part of the fabric of our Nation,” Biden wrote in his statement. “Whether serving their communities or in the military, raising families or running businesses, they help America thrive. They deserve, and are entitled to, the same rights and freedoms as every other American, including the most fundamental freedom to be their true selves.”

FunderPants,

Anyone telling you both sides same are either a bad actor or so incredibly privelleged that they can just not care about this kind of thing.

Ultragigagigantic,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

You know, usually when I read “both sides are the same”, it’s a blue conservative like you trying to make people critical of the Democratic party seem unreasonable.

Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but there are differences for sure. Dont you want more differences?

If you wanna really shut up those people bitchhing from the sidelines, the best way to do so is to put them in the game! Force them to show us how to do things since it’s so easy and they have it figured out.

Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.

Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.

Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?

So what’s the hold up blue states?

Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.

whoreticulture,

HOW was this downvoted.

every time I argue that we should vote third party to move the Democratic party left, people tell me that instead we should focus on electoral/voting reform. And then someone suggests it and gets downvotes.

it’s almost as if people don’t really care 🤔

dandelion,
@dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I get why people are so freaked out about voting third party, especially when mass political actions like voting don’t seem to handle nuance well. So advocating a simple slogan like “vote third party” might be irresponsible, but people seem almost irrationally afraid of third party voting in contexts where it should be entirely rational to vote third party.

For example, in a swing state it’s clearly useful to vote for the Lesser Evil (in recent U.S. elections that would be the Democrats, of course). But in states where there is a supermajority and there is almost no chance the state will flip, for example California which will certainly go to the Democrats or Arkansas which will go Republican, voting third party becomes helpful because it might enable the third party to receive federal funding.

There are various objections I have considered to this strategy, the one I think that comes up immediately is that if you vote third party it takes a vote that might otherwise contribute to changing the status of a state as stronghold or swing state, basically those margins matter and you should always be pushing the margin even if not likely to make a difference (just on the slim chance it does make a difference).

In that instance I think it’s just a matter of weighing the good: does the good from voting for the third party justify the slight risk of not being part of an unexpected shift in votes? This is clearly contextual, see recent upsets in Georgia (who went to Biden in 2020) and Pennsylvania (who went to Trump in 2016). I think the responsibility is on the voter to research their state demographics and those probabilities and make a decision. If you want to do less work, sure, just vote for the Lesser Evil.

What I don’t understand is the kind of blind dogmatism that refuses to acknowledge that there even could be reasons to vote third party, and that doing so is wrong a priori.

Cryophilia,

Frankly, because people are stupid and can’t handle nuance. Know your audience. In a downthread conversation between a small group of people like you who acknowledge the basic strategy of voting blue no matter who in a swing state, it’s fair to discuss the nuance.

But most people on Lemmy cannot handle that level of nuance. They’re dumb and ill-informed. They need to be told to vote Dem, because if we prevaricate and say “well, if you’re in a safe state” they (and foreign agitators) will take that and run with it to try to convince ALL Democrats tp vote 3rd party.

laverabe,

Voting 3rd part has the opposite effect. Republicans voted 3rd part in 92 to shift policy and lost the presidency for 8 years, and the appointment of 2 lifetime supreme court justices.

whoreticulture,

But long term it worked … just look at where conservatives are now. The populist movement is stronger than ever.

laverabe,

That has nothing to do with elections and everything to do with the direction news media has taken. Outrage sells, reasonable politics not so much.

whoreticulture,

Elections are part of media. Tons of leftists vote for a left candidate would make the news.

Asafum,

That’s thanks to propaganda outlets. Fox news going absolutely bat shit insane over the last 15-20 years has done a lot of heavy lifting in that regard :(

hark,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Because you’re supposed to follow the script of pretending that democrats are saving democracy and that you should vote blue even if poo. The reality is that democrats are only interested in saving the current power structure, we already don’t have a democracy, both parties do in fact serve the rich first and foremost, and guaranteeing your vote no matter what will not cause the democrats to change their policies. These should be obvious to anyone paying any attention. I wonder if these people lived through the Bush Jr years where democrats were screaming about how bad he was (correctly so), but after he was out of office they continued many of his policies (corporate bailouts, his wars, maintained tax cuts for the rich, etc) and worked to rehabilitate that war criminal’s image.

Yes, republicans are worse, but democrats use that to their advantage to never significantly improve things. It’s the classic good cop, bad cop routine. They’re still cops and they’re both on the same team working against you.

whoreticulture,

Most succinct description of the situation I’ve seen.

whostosay,

This is astroturfing.

whoreticulture,

“anyone who disagrees with me is a bot/shill” okay

index,

Bad actors usually work for the government and if there’s anything the government is pressuring you to do is not voting for parties that aren’t part of the government (red or blue). If there’s anyone privileged here i would point my finger at americans, people getting bombed in gaza or in the middle east don’t even get to decide if they can live the day or not. Let’s not play the politicians game anyway, turning people against each others is one of their oldest trick in the book. If there’s anyone actually privileged in this world it’s them

eldavi, (edited )

i like it when straight people overcompensate to try to make up for all thoroughly fucked up things they did to lgbt in the past; problem is biden did SO MUCH fucked up things to so many lgbt that he could keep keep trying to overcompensate for the rest of his life and still not even budge the karma scale.

still, though, it’s nice to see the effort and it would carry a lot more weight if he didn’t benefit from trying to do so during election season.

jve,

problem is biden did SO MUCH fucked up things to so many lgbt that he could keep keep trying to overcompensate for the rest of his life and still not even budge the karma scale.

What did he do?

eldavi,

it takes less than 30 seconds on google to find biden’s record, so i’m hoping you’re not a sealioning.

tldr: biden is a 2-faced politician that goes with whatever is popular atm. this meant that he was anti-lgbt when it was okay and is now suddenly pro-lgbt since that it’ll get him votes nowadays.

voted against gay marriage

voted against gays in the military

affirmed his stance on anti-gay marriage in 2006

supported banning lgbt in federal service like executive order 10450

jve,

It’s not a great track record, for sure.

tldr: biden is a 2-faced politician

Sadly this bit is just redundant.

That said, when going with “what’s popular” happens to align with what’s right, that’s gotta be worth something.

I’m a 90s kid, so I grew up calling my friends all sorts of homophonic slurs. I’ve told some racist jokes in my day, thinking I was edgy.

None of this affected public policy, but I’ll say for sure my views have changed a lot over the last few decades.

Can we say for sure that bidens not just a “fair weather ally?” No I suppose not, but a fair weather ally is still an ally.

whostosay,

What’s popular? That’s literally what I want from a politician and nothing else. That is democracy defined.

bumphot,

They are not the same but they are almost the same. Identical on most important issues such as genocide, police power, prisons, wealth inequality,etc.

They just pick controversial topics that they know will divide people, so they can make us vote for them so the other side won’t win, while both couldn’t care less about anything but money in their pockets.

bigMouthCommie,

no one is doing that though

cm0002,

You’re either a troll or blind AF

bigMouthCommie,

if you can substantiate the claim, you should. a claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and no one should believe you if you don't support your claims.

protist,

no one is doing that though

Substantiate this, motherfucker

bigMouthCommie,

can't prove a negative, but just one counterexample would disprove it.

protist,

kolektiva.social/users/…/112181077173838043

bigMouthCommie,

that doesn't say they are the same

protist,

You literally said “both sides are bad” in what I linked. You can continue to try to argue the semantics of your exact phrasing and vocabulary, but your intention is both clear and insufferable, no matter how much you try to deny it.

bigMouthCommie,

it's bad to have your arm hacked off with a hatchet or sliced off with a chainsaw. they are not the same, though.

swiftcasty,

Here, I found something that says just that, and it's at your comprehension level: https://www.amazon.com/Sides-Wonder-Readers-Early-Level/dp/142967797X

jeffw,

It’s a shame this comment is so far down because it is an incredible burn

inb4_FoundTheVegan,
@inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world avatar

Textbook sealioning.

bigMouthCommie,

wrong.

jeffw,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    bigMouthCommie,

    Your definition of sealioning, that it’s defined by intention, that it involves a mask, these are all non-falsifiable. You realize that right? They contain no mechanism for accepting new information from outside your ideology, and make your mind starve to death.

    This overall approach to things — to operate on the basis that all is known and understood and that those who disagree or behave as if there might be incompleteness in the knowledge — is what the term “totalitarian” refers to.

    A classic example of “totalitarian” thinking is if you solve a game like tic-tac-toe. Having a game 100% solved, ie having computed every move, and therefore having 100% certainty as to the optimal play strategy, is a situation where you’ve encapsulated the totality of the game in your mind.

    The idea that the totality of existence, of real life situations, is already known and the optimal strategy already computed, is “totalitarian”.

    A totalitarian dictatorship is one in which that totality of understanding, and the resulting certainty of optimal strategy, is used to justify stripping subjects of all freedom. Any deviation from the optimal is considered bad, so freedom is worthless.

    And of course there are degrees of totalitarianism, expressed implicitly in aspects of culture.

    Science, by its emphasis on putting empirical observation above theory in terms of trust, allows for external information to update itself. Science is not totalitarian in that sense.

    The term “Sealioning”, by enabling people to decide that any interaction at any time possesses a particular intention (un-observable, non-falsifiable), or that a particular mask is being used (un-observable, non-falsifiable), that they can just ignore the interaction and cast aspersions on the person they’re interacting with.

    FunderPants,

    https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/7c1c0ce7-a0c1-4be9-82a5-df0065c3fecc.png

    whostosay,

    LMFAO where did you even get this

    snooggums,
    @snooggums@midwest.social avatar

    That was the origin of the term sealioning.

    whostosay,

    Idk why I’m being downvoted, shits hilarious.

    snooggums,
    @snooggums@midwest.social avatar

    Acknowledging that you wrren’t aware of something obscure gets downvotes. It is stupid, but that’s how the internet works.

    swiftcasty,

    I have to wonder if anybody at all likes you

    Jax, (edited )

    This is an entire essay written after you tried to deny the very obvious “both sides are bad” arguments that people are making. Wait let me rephrase that, this is you trying to deny that you denied making that claim.

    Then you tried to claim that the burden of proof was on the other person, despite you being the one making the outrageous claim.

    You aren’t providing anyone with new information. You are either an idiot or a bot.

    bigMouthCommie,

    I did copy this comment from elsewhere. it refuted the validity of accusations of sealioning

    Jax, (edited )

    And that’s why I think you’re an idiot or AI.

    GladiusB,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    Legit question. Is sea lioning the same as trolling? Or is it more specific? I have only heard of the term recently.

    XTL,

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

    Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity (“I’m just trying to have a debate”), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.

    That comic link was good, too.

    Eccitaze, (edited )
    @Eccitaze@yiffit.net avatar

    It’s a specific form of trolling/bad-faith argument based on this comic. The idea behind sealioning is that you feign politeness and badger someone with seemingly-simple questions (that in reality require spending a sizable amount of time to answer) to get them to try to debate you. This can take the form of asking someone to elaborate a point, or provide citations to support a claim. If the victim takes the bait and responds legitimately, the troll ignores most of the message, claims any citations are invalid for some reason (biased source, misrepresenting what the article says, or just ignoring it exists entirely). The troll then cherry picks a few statements, and asks more questions about those, continuing the cycle, If the victim refers to previous posts, the troll pretends it either didn’t happen or didn’t actually answer their question (it did). If the victim refers to previously linked articles, the troll dismisses them and insists the victim provides “better” articles (that the troll will also dismiss out of hand). If the victim ever tells the troll to fuck off, the troll claims the moral high road and says they just “want a civil discussion” and “reasoned debate” over the topic.

    The goal is something like a reverse Gish Gallop. Where a gish gallop aims to overwhelm the victim with more arguments than can be addressed quickly in the hope that your opponent can’t/won’t take the time to respond and walk away, allowing you to claim victory, sealioning aims to trick the victim into spending hours writing a messages that you can respond to in under a minute with a few simple questions, creating a kind of denial-of-service attack.

    GladiusB,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    Cool. Thanks.

    Eccitaze,
    @Eccitaze@yiffit.net avatar

    Yeah, happy to help. Sealioning really fucking sucks, because the only ways to counter it are:

    • Insult the troll until they go away
    • Refuse to play their game and give short, pithy responses without doing any research (or not linking the research you did)
    • Ignore the troll entirely
    • Copy your response and paste it whenever you see the troll asking the same question (which someone is doing in this very thread)
    • Create and maintain a collection of ready-to-go arguments with citations that you can copy/paste at the drop of a hat, which is a fair bit of work in of itself

    In case it’s not obvious, most of the counters for sealioning look almost exactly like trolling itself, and it’s almost impossible to tell a sealion from someone apart looking for a legitimate discussion at first glance–short of keeping track of individual usernames and watching them in multiple threads, the only way to know if someone is a sealion for sure is for at least one person to feed the troll at least one good response. It’s what makes sealioning such an insidious technique, because fighting a sealion almost always results in a lower quality of discussion itself, giving the sealion another type of victory.

    GladiusB,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    There seems to be one other problem too. Someone can legitimately be inept. There is no real proof that someone doesn’t feel that way and is acting in good faith and just cannot comprehend what is being discussed.

    Thanks for the break down.

    swiftcasty,

    Here, the Wall Street Journal is doing it (Jan 12, 2024)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/both-sides-threaten-democracy-2024-presidential-election-biden-election-integrity-a1445f42

    Edit: also, it's a common enough occurrence that the dictionary added "Bothsidesing" as a word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/bothsidesing-bothsidesism-new-words-were-watching

    bigMouthCommie,

    bothesidesing is not necessarily saying they are the same. i don't recall ever seeing someone actually say both sides are the same.

    PunnyName,

    Your in-/ability to recall information is not evidence.

    In fact, why don’t you prove to us that you can’t recall information. Please.

    bigMouthCommie,

    you can't prove a negative, but only one counter example would undermine my disbelief.

    swiftcasty,

    counter example has been provided, you just don't want to accept counter-evidence

    Here, the Wall Street Journal is doing it (Jan 12, 2024)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/both-sides-threaten-democracy-2024-presidential-election-biden-election-integrity-a1445f42

    Edit: also, it's a common enough occurrence that the dictionary added "Bothsidesing" as a word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/bothsidesing-bothsidesism-new-words-were-watching

    bigMouthCommie,

    but neither of those links do say both sides are the same

    snooggums,
    @snooggums@midwest.social avatar

    Does being as stupid as you are hurt?

    I hope it hurts.

    PunnyName,

    Your original statement is a negative that “must be proven”. What is the purpose of your insistence in this discussion?

    bigMouthCommie,

    i saw someone spreading what i thought was misinformation and i called it out (with just as much evidence as they have, mind you).

    bigMouthCommie,

    seems to me they are not saying they are the same, but that they are both doing bad things.

    swiftcasty,

    ah, you weren't being genuine

    bigMouthCommie,

    your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith.

    no one is saying both sides are the same.

    Apollo42,

    I can’t even imagine pretending to be this stupid lol

    swiftcasty,

    this can't be proven

    I made a good point, you just don't like it

    bigMouthCommie,

    spamming your (irrelevant) links is not the mark of genuine engagement.

    swiftcasty,

    pot meet kettle

    jeffw,

    “If you have evidence, show me!”

    “No, not like that!!!”

    swiftcasty,

    Here, the Wall Street Journal is doing it (Jan 12, 2024)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/both-sides-threaten-democracy-2024-presidential-election-biden-election-integrity-a1445f42

    Edit: also, it's a common enough occurrence that the dictionary added "Bothsidesing" as a word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/bothsidesing-bothsidesism-new-words-were-watching

    Laticauda,

    Here’s 3 examples from just a single thread that I was a part of not too long ago (I’d have more but I don’t actively save threads/comments regarding this topic so this is from a thread I could find via my replies that wasn’t deleted).

    https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/4f391fd9-34d0-46a4-a093-628bd082f762.jpeg

    https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/8430c716-f394-49b8-b2a9-b64105ee0e2e.jpeg

    https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/572a24b6-881c-4309-ae00-50b9ef076b7d.jpeg

    maypull,

    the first two certainly appear to be doing it, but without context, it is hard to say. the third explicitly said one is worse

    Laticauda, (edited )

    The context is that it was a thread where people were debating whether people ever say that both sides are the same, which devolved into a debate over whether both sides are the same in some places. I’m not sure how saying they’re like Sarumon vs Sauron is explicitly saying one is worse in the third one, considering this was in response to a meme comparing them to Sarumon vs Gandalf. Aragorn in this comparison is their equivalent of a third party.

    maypull,

    theses are all in the same thread? can you link it?

    Laticauda,

    Well I’m trying to avoid sending anyone after the commenters en mass hence why I censored them but if you look in my comment history you can find the thread about a month back.

    whostosay,

    Better not acknowledge this, I might be wrong lmao

    bigMouthCommie,

    what do I need to say that maypull didn't?

    Laticauda,

    Maypull said very little in their response so, I’m sure you can add something if you try.

    LainTrain,

    Putler psyop bot be gone

    PugJesus,
    PugJesus avatar

    You yourself do that, constantly. But such lies are your kind's bread and butter.

    bigMouthCommie,

    i've never done that, and i don't know what you mean by "your kind" but it sounds vaguely bigoted

    jeffw,

    He means trolls

    Skua,

    Here is you agreeing with a comment that includes the quote "How are they different from republicans? How is biden different than trump?" just yesterday

    https://kolektiva.social/users/bigMouthCommie/statuses/112181807694426359

    bigMouthCommie,

    strictly, they are asking how they are different, not stating that they are the same.

    Skua,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question

    bigMouthCommie,

    i think this is probably a fair point, but i also think it's notable that this person was at the end of a long conversation and clearly emotionally distraught. if you pointed out this thread to them, they'd say "of course they're not the same, but neither is acceptable" or some variation. and i think that's a fair position to have.

    Bernie_Sandals,
    @Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world avatar

    Then they should’ve just clearly pointed out their problems with Biden (Gaza) and then said that’s why they wouldn’t vote for him.

    The only purpose of ever comparing the Republicans and the Democrats and implying they’re the same is to weaponize leftist hate for the Republicans against the Democrats, right before the most consequential election of the century so far.

    Sterile_Technique,
    @Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world avatar

    They are exactly the same.

    (bear with me folks, I just wanna see how the troll’s algorithm handles it)

    GladiusB,
    @GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

    Username checks out

    takeda,

    I see it plenty of times from Republicans. They either love trump or are saying that both sides are equally corrupted (typically when trump does something indefensible)

    bigMouthCommie,

    they can be equally corrupt without being the same.

    takeda,

    Democrats have their bad apples, but Republicans are a totally different league.

    Also when a scandal happens with a Democrat their voters don’t have any qualms with disowning them, while in the same scenario Republicans will be looking for excuses like the one mentioned above.

    bigMouthCommie,

    hilary rigged a primary. obama executed americans without due process. pelosis insider trading is an open secret.

    democrats circle the wagons.

    zbyte64,

    Because one is orange and the other isn’t?

    And no, they are not equally corrupt. But thank you for the self-report

    bigMouthCommie,

    I didn't say anything about my own opinion

    zbyte64,

    And you still aren’t. How brave. Are you by any chance a fan of Tim Pool?

    bigMouthCommie,

    a long time ago when he did on the ground reporting. his talking head shit shows he's a real dummy tho

    FunderPants,

    I see it every day on socials.

    bigMouthCommie,

    oh? where?

    swiftcasty,

    Here, the Wall Street Journal is doing it (Jan 12, 2024)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/both-sides-threaten-democracy-2024-presidential-election-biden-election-integrity-a1445f42

    Edit: also, it's a common enough occurrence that the dictionary added "Bothsidesing" as a word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/bothsidesing-bothsidesism-new-words-were-watching

    protist,

    With the benefit of the doubt, this statement is just incredibly ignorant. More likely it’s a straight-up lie though

    bigMouthCommie,

    can you show someone doing this?

    swiftcasty,

    Here, the Wall Street Journal is doing it (Jan 12, 2024)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/both-sides-threaten-democracy-2024-presidential-election-biden-election-integrity-a1445f42

    Edit: also, it's a common enough occurrence that the dictionary added "Bothsidesing" as a word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/bothsidesing-bothsidesism-new-words-were-watching

    Hyperreality, (edited )

    Some examples for those reading:

    "Both Sides Threaten Democracy"

    "Biden Is Just As Bad As Trump"

    "Even the libs have accepted at this point Biden can’t even do worse than Trump when it comes to supporting this Genocide. As Biden is 100% all in on Genociding every last Palestinian."

    "Fuck Biden and Fuck Trump. At this point Biden full well knows the Genocide he’s in for. He seems to care more about flattening Rafah than “saving American Democracy”. The libs thinking they can shame people into voting for Genocide are the reason Biden thinks he can keep doing this."

    "Both parties are the same on Israel. But democrats will throw in a little lip service here and there, mild fake condemnation."

    "Candidate 2: I’m going to give guns and money to the person killing ponies but tell them they shouldn’t do it. Leftist: Either way ponies are going to be killed. Let’s try something different. Centrist: Noooo, you have to vote for the proxy pony killer who can’t use his position to do anything or else you’ll get a pony killer in power who’ll use his position to do everything."

    Relevant wikipedia page:

    Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate", and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings. The term originated with a 2014 strip of the webcomic Wondermark by David Malki, which The Independent called "the most apt description of Twitter you'll ever see".

    swiftcasty,

    Here, the Wall Street Journal is doing it (Jan 12, 2024)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/both-sides-threaten-democracy-2024-presidential-election-biden-election-integrity-a1445f42

    Edit: also, it's a common enough occurrence that the dictionary added "Bothsidesing" as a word: https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/bothsidesing-bothsidesism-new-words-were-watching

    jeffw,

    Is this your first day on Lemmy? Have you ever been on a lefty subreddit in your life?

    bigMouthCommie,

    this is rhetoric, not evidence

    PunnyName,

    Hi. I see today is your first day on the Internet. Welcome!

    zbyte64,

    You’re right, @lemmywinks insists Trump is better

    bigMouthCommie,

    ok? every trump voter says that, too.

    zbyte64,

    Your reading comprehension is outshined by your critical thinking 👏

    bigMouthCommie,

    I don't understand what you're getting at

    zbyte64,

    Yeah, I’m sorry. To continue this conversation would be unfair to you.

    Laticauda,

    People have absolutely been doing that, I see it constantly here.

    bigMouthCommie,

    can you link that?

    whoreticulture, (edited )

    I’m a trans person and I don’t appreciate my identity being used to justify voting for someone who literally TODAY sent more weapons to Israel to bomb Palestinians with.

    Cold_Brew_Enema,

    Congratulations

    Witchfire, (edited )
    @Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m a trans person and condemn anyone who won’t vote to stop a fascist dictator that wants me dead from obtaining the nuclear codes

    TheKMAP,

    When can we start voting for someone good instead of merely less bad? How do we get to that point?

    assassin_aragorn,

    This is a question for democracies in general. I don’t think any country has solved this yet, so to speak

    Grant_M,

    Elevate and popularize someone who is better. If Biden gets in, there’s four years to make it happen – if trump gets in, there’s no more democracy.

    Cryophilia,

    Gotta get rid of First Past the Post voting. And increase the size of the House. Even then, there can be only one President, so he necessarily won’t be someone you perfectly agree with, he will represent the broader coalition that your party is part of in government. But I think that’s as close as we could get in a Democracy.

    VoterFrog,

    I would think it would take 4 back to back presidential election wins by the Democratic party. Maybe 3 if it included wipeouts of Republicans in Congress and at the state level. No party can survive being out of power for that long without changing and shifting towards were voters are and that leaves the Democrats room to shift left to solidify that flank.

    We’ve already had 1. We’re on the cusp of a possible second. That means we could be 4 years from a complete collapse of the Republican party, if people were actually serious about creating a real leftist movement in this country. That’s because winning is how you affect change. A loss just tells politicians that they need to be more like the winner.

    TheKMAP,

    That’s a good start, I think. The tricky bit is I think you need thirty years straight of good decisions so that the next generation is fully done “correctly”. Will be harder to abuse the system after that.

    “Be more like the winner” is interesting. Trump is a populist and he was more worried about Bernie than Clinton.

    Cryophilia,

    The California model. Render Republicans impotent, then you can start enacting real positive changes.

    Witchfire, (edited )
    @Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

    Petition for an end to FPTP voting. Ranked choice will be the death of the Republican party.

    undercrust,

    See: improvements in Alaska (of all places) for details

    whoreticulture,

    Yeah you’re cool with voting in the fascist killing Palestinians, and shitting on people for caring about genocide. Very cool.

    Witchfire, (edited )
    @Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t like it either, but at least he’s not calling for Israel to finish the job (with a nuke). This is how low our standards have dropped.

    webadict,

    It’s a 10 day old account, they are 100% a bad faith actor, and you know this because they don’t acknowledge any of the ways to push for better treatment of Palestinian civilians. They are using them as a prop to tell people to not vote for Joe Biden (which is its own brand of fucked up privileged), even though Joe Biden is pretty famous for being bullied into better positions. Voting against fascists is, indeed, the right move, and Joe Biden might be a centrist liberal, but he isn’t a fucking fascist.

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    Joe Biden is a fascist

    whoreticulture,

    my bff ty

    assassin_aragorn,

    I’m not sure you understand what a fascist is. Look at Modi and his party in India for a contemporary example.

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    I start with Mussolini

    assassin_aragorn,

    You have to separate the defining traits of a fascist regime from the other traits which typically accompany them. Some of them aren’t exclusive characteristics of a fascist regime, they’re just traits of conservative regimes in general.

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    no, I dont. a fascist is a fascist.

    assassin_aragorn,

    What? No that’s my whole point. Fascism is a specific thing, it isn’t just any old authoritarian conservative government.

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    I know what fascism is. america is fascist. the Democrats and Republicans maintain the fascist state.

    assassin_aragorn,

    Well if you want to use your own definition of fascist, I suppose anything can be fascist if you want it to be.

    A question, so I can better understand your definition – is China fascist?

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    f you want to use your own definition of fascist

    I’m using Mussolini’s

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    absolutely. it’s clear the states interests supercede all other interests and that they have aligned all institutions with the interest of the state.

    assassin_aragorn,

    You’re consistent, I’ll give you that.

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    i take that as a high compliment, but i assure you you’ll find inconsistencies if you push hard enough and in enough places.

    whoreticulture,

    my first post here is asking what Lemmy is lol I’m just new here

    Sylver,

    And you are acting in bad faith. You set up a straw man argument so you can bash people for whatever their choice is. If you really meant to have actual discussion, you would. Instead you spout right-wing bullshit about “Biden bad boohoo”

    You say he is the genocidal one, while he is actively being pushed to change his ways and taking responsibility while correcting the behavior. Slowly but surely. As opposed to the other side, which literally just wants to drop a nuke on the situation.

    When people call you a bad-faith actor, it’s because you’re acting in bad faith.

    whoreticulture,

    He literally sent more weapons to Israel yesterday. You’re dumb as hell if you think he’s going to push back against the mainstream Democratic opinion that is in support of Israel. Only way to convince Democrats to change is to stop voting for them.

    whoreticulture,

    I’m sure you’ve heard all the arguments, if you are curious about my thoughts you can dig through my comment history or do some googling and guess at what they could be.

    Feddyteddy,

    I think your sphincter is squeezing your neck too tight, and it’s cutting off the circulation to your brain.

    Cryophilia,

    This is an excellent insult and I might re use it.

    Feddyteddy,

    That’s so nice of you to say! I’m quite proud of it. It just came to me out of nowhere for this comment. By all means, use it as if it were your own.

    whoreticulture,

    booooo!!!

    Feddyteddy,

    Look who it is! It’s my adorable little angry puppy that follows me around to various threads. Half the credit for this line goes to you and your tight little brown starfish.

    pats them on their little red head

    whoreticulture,

    TERF

    Feddyteddy,

    TURF

    whoreticulture,

    funny how you only post about trans stuff lately but you’re not even trans you terf ass. I know you’re a terf bc those are the only people who use terf terminology like “genetic men”.

    Feddyteddy,

    Yeah, you caught me, I’ve been learning about trans issues lately. From what I’ve gathered, you and Tucker Carlson are both trying very hard to stop trans education. Although it seems he is a bit more skilled at it than you.

    whoreticulture,

    please stop learning about trans issues!!!

    Feddyteddy,

    Oh my. I must be an idiot. I just realized that you almost certainly are an anti-trans troll. There is no way that anyone who was pro-trans would be trying so hard to make them look so comicly awful. If you would like to have a conversation while representing your actual position, I would be open to it. For real, I know that it may be a bit intimidating, but if you spend some time trying to get to know some real live trans people, it may really change your mind.

    Sorry it took me so long. I feel like I’ve never been on the internet vefore or something. You really got me good. Well done, internet stranger, well done. I gotta hand it to you. You really had me believing you for a while. You win this round, you cheeky bastard.

    whoreticulture,

    all the time you spent writing these damn paragraphs for noone to read, you could be spending reading a book or listening to trans people

    Feddyteddy,

    Well, at least now I’m a little bit better at determining when I’m talking to a bigot attempting to drum up hate against trans people by mascarading as one of the worst of them. So it’s not a total waste of time, I suppose. I guess it adds to the sweetness knowing that I’ve wasted your time as well, considering your sneaky little plan ended up not working after all.

    Also, now I’m able to warn anyone else that you try your little trick on. All in all, I’d say it’s worth it. Although, considering how new your account is, I guess this is the part of the game where you just make a new account and try again. In hindsight, I guess I should have just let you go on thinking it was working.

    It has also helped me to improve my English. On top of that, I’ve learned a bit about “stylometry” because I had chatgpt talk me through making a python script that uses the lemmy API(turns out its a thing) that scans lemmy comments looking for your writing style so I can hopefully determine whatever your other(and future) accounts are. Hopefully, I can squash you out before you have a chance to trick anyone else. Trans people are too special, and if you are going to try so hard to hurt them, then I will be damned if I don’t fight back to help them.

    You adorable little Tucker Carlson wannabe, you. You had a good run.

    whoreticulture,

    Maybe find some trans YouTubers to watch, Jamie Dodger is great and has a PhD in some field related to trans issues. You’re wasting your time, terf. I’m literally not reading these lol

    Feddyteddy,

    It’s fine if you don’t read them. They are more for the sake of anyone else you try to do this to than they are for you anyway.

    Thanks for the tip, I’m curious if they are actually pro-trans or just another one like you, just mascarading to try to bring down the image of the trans community.

    whoreticulture,

    You’re literally having a psychotic episode if that’s the conclusion you’ve come to in all these messages lmao

    Feddyteddy,

    It just seems so unlikely that you would be acting like this if you weren’t trying to give trans a bad name. If you were genuinely interested in helping the trans movement, then you would have answered my questions or ignored them if they were beyond your understanding. You wouldn’t have immediately just gone right into calling me names and wishing for my demise as soon as you heard I was cis.

    whoreticulture,

    actually the first thing I told you to do was to do some damn research and stop using terf terms you dingus!!

    Feddyteddy,

    As soon as you told me that I went and asked other trans people what the proper way to refer to xx and xy people if not biological female and biological male, and they ALL emphatically agreed that it is absolutely, undeniably, the proper way to refer to them, and is in no way offensive. They even asked me where I thought babies come from if there are no females/males. Then, I sent you the link to the conversation. Guess what your response was: “TERF!!!”

    I have, and had absolutely no intention to insult anybody or call anyone by improper names or insults(you are still the only person involved that is doing this). I was simply trying to learn what the proper terminology was.

    whoreticulture,

    genetic men is not a widely used term by anyone except terfs. find me a lgbtq org or style guide that suggests that terminology if you can, but you can’t. you’ll definitely find orgs that tell you not to use that term.

    Feddyteddy,

    Literally from the thread I gave you before. Here is a link from a trans person to a nature article that literally refers to biological sex.

    www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0666-3

    At this point, I don’t know if you are oblivious to your own community or if you are intentionally trying to make trans look bad.

    whoreticulture,

    they don’t use the term “genetic men” which is a terf red flag, which is why I am calling you a terf. dumbass.

    Feddyteddy,

    It refers to biological sex which you have been pretending is offensive. It’s not. You know it’s not. There simply is no way you are truly this oblivious.

    whoreticulture,

    referring to people as genetic men is offensive. using specific terms is not.

    “people who have undergone a testosterone dominant puberty” would be accurate to what you’re referring to. but you kept bringing up the penis which is completely irrelevant, and just a transphobic red flag

    I said this ages ago and you ignored it bc you’re a terf asshole

    Feddyteddy,

    Alright, it is clear that you are not genuine. There is obviously no way anyone expects anyone else to write out that whole phrase instead of saying “genetic male”. The scientific literature disagrees with you, common English language usage disagrees with you, and the trans community disagrees with you. You are by yourself. It can’t be that you actually think this way.

    whoreticulture,

    I told you to look up a better phrase, because a trans health centered org would have the best terminology , you didn’t even read my original comments you just got triggered when I called you a terf. You’re a DUMB ASS

    Feddyteddy,

    In the long run, you lose. You are a dinosaur. There is no place for your anti-trans games in a progressive future. There will always be people different from you. You can’t stop that, you will be better off if you just get used to it.

    whoreticulture,

    do you really think you’re fooling anyone? you’ve already won like 50 razzys. you’re such a bad actor, I heard you’re about to get an invite on Big Brother

    Feddyteddy,

    At this point you sound like a broken chat bot. I honestly have no idea what you are on about. I dont know what a razzy is. I never watched that Big Brother show. All I know is it is people living in a house with a bunch of cameras or something. I don’t have the faintest idea how it is relevant.

    whoreticulture,

    just as irrelevant as you are to humanity

    Feddyteddy,

    I absolutely am irrelevant to humanity, just like nearly everyone. If you think this is an insult, then you are in for a rude awakening when/if you eventually grow up.

    whoreticulture,

    boooo!!! terf!!!

    whoreticulture,

    trans people don’t need your support!! go away!!

    Feddyteddy,

    Now that I know what you are doing, I realise that this is probably the most genuine thing you’ve said in our entire conversation. I feel so played.

    webadict,

    Please list the descriptors that show Joe Biden is a fascist, because I’m looking at Umberto Eco’s and I see… maybe 1, if you reach a bit: “appeal to the middle class”

    You probably fall under at least 4 though.

    federatingIsTooHard,
    @federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

    Umberto didn’t invent fascism

    Mussolini did

    webadict,

    Imagine posting your definition for fascism instead of nothing relevant.

    whoreticulture,

    he’s funding a genocide, is the leader of a country that has one of the proportionally largest prison populations in the world that are used as slaves, the U.S. is a police state who spies on its own citizens and regularly just bombs/assassinates activist movements. Any president not acting to dismantle that is fascist.

    shocking that you’re just learning this now, but the United States are the bad guys

    assassin_aragorn,

    That’s not what fascism is?

    whoreticulture,

    Idk why your definition of fascism doesn’t include labor camps, war-mongering, and a militarized policing of our own people.

    assassin_aragorn,

    Because that’s not fascism. Fascism is hypernationalism and tacit acceptance of political violence to support your goals. Everything you’ve mentioned is usually there with fascist regimes, but it isn’t what makes the regime fascist.

    whoreticulture,

    There are many definitions of fascism, but, the United States absolutely fits the definition you just gave.

    Not every country has their flags flying constantly. Not every country has a pledge of allegiance to a flag in their schools. And the United States has bombed, imprisoned, and assassinated domestic political threats.

    assassin_aragorn,

    Hmm. I do agree, the pledge of allegiance is really weird and fascistic. And you do have a point on the violence.

    I suppose I typically see the violence as needing to be more pervasive, like how Trump supporters send death threats to judges and political opponents and the whole Jan 6 thing. But throughout our history, we have had violent intimidation of oppositional political figures.

    I think I wouldn’t call the US fascist because it isn’t significantly pervasive, but I completely see your point, and I don’t begrudge you identifying it as fascist. I certainly see why you think that and I can’t disagree beyond semantics.

    whoreticulture,

    Fair enough. Personally, I do begrudge you not using the term Fascist because I think if more people used that term to refer to our government, more people would be rightfully angry. It is alarming and scary to me that people are not seeing this country for what it is. Words have power.

    assassin_aragorn,

    I think the people we’d need to convince aren’t going to be swayed by the terminology. You need to get the middle rightfully angry, and what we learned from Vietnam is that you need to show them examples of the atrocities.

    whoreticulture,

    Use both. I don’t see any reason to mince words.

    Feddyteddy,

    Don’t bother feeding into this whoreticulture account, they are pretending to be trans and then acting awful to try to get people to wrongfully think badly of trans people. I’m working on making a script that automatically warns people about their account.

    whoreticulture,

    terf alert weee oooo weeee oooo

    webadict,

    That’s not really a good answer though. Those are policies put in place long before Biden became president, but not only that, you haven’t proposed an alternative. Your current solution is “Don’t vote for Biden” but the outcome is that you either get Biden, a continuation of the status quo at worst, or you get Trump, a continuation of the status quo AT BEST. You can pretend you live in a world where you get a third party candidate, but you don’t.

    Which leaves you in an unfortinate bind, since that makes you a fascist by your own definition. You are trying to push a solution that would make the situation at best the same, and at worst, much, much worse. As you said:

    Any president not acting to dismantle that is fascist

    I assume you would never take an action that would support a fascist. So, how can you argue that in a First-Past-The-Post voting system (and one that defaults to state legislatures if no majority is made), voting for a third party is a viable solution?

    I think you can’t if you are against fascism. You can post links to antifascist movements, organizations, or steps to take, but the American election system is too fucked to argue against the two big parties unless you are ever the optimist, but I don’t think you are if you argue both parties are fascist.

    whoreticulture,

    If the Dems lose elections or nearly lose elections because 10% of voters choose a leftist third party, the party will move left to capture those voters. If we keep voting them in as-is, they will have no incentive to change. I am an optimist, actually, because I believe in the capacity for change. The results from the primary elections prove to me that this strategy is viable.

    assassin_aragorn,

    You’re forgetting that Democrats losing means Republicans winning. And when Republicans win elections, it pushes the entire country to the right. It happened with Reagan, the Tea Party, and Trump.

    This approach only spirals us further into far right extremism.

    whoreticulture,

    We had Trump after 8 years of Obama…

    assassin_aragorn,

    I don’t think I’m following your argument

    hark,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re forgetting that biden spent almost his entire career in the senate. He’s part of the political machine that put those policies into place. Things are only getting worse, which is how assholes like trump rise to start with. If things were going great, then a candidate like trump wouldn’t have found a foothold.

    eldavi, (edited )

    I’m a trans person and condemn anyone who won’t vote to stop a fascist dictator that wants me dead from obtaining the nuclear codes

    i’ve been trying to find someone who’s life had been impacted by biden’s support of don’t-ask-don’t-tell; defense-of-marriage-act; executive-order-10450; ice; straight-marriage-only-in-2006 to ask if they still support him; but it seems that only the young who are ignorant of his past; those who “avoid politics”; and those that were never affected universally support him.

    if you’re not one of these three groups; i’d like to hear your thoughts on why he switched to pro-lgbt: do you think it’s because it was more politically advantageous of him? did he hate lgbt in the past because it acceptable and, if so, if it were still acceptable would he continue to hate lgbt?

    i ask because my life has been thoroughly fucked by each one of these policies and it took A LOT of effort to rebuild my life so it’s obvious that i wouldn’t support him; but i’m wondering if there’s anyone else out there whose life has also been thoroughly fucked by these policies, but still support him somehow.

    Witchfire,
    @Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m only voting for him because the other option and inaction are death sentences. I don’t like the guy at all and would vote for someone else given the option.

    That said, for all his centrist tendencies he does seem to occasionally cave in to pressure. It just takes time.

    hark,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    Unfortunately, you’re going to be voting for “not the other option” for the rest of your life since democrats will see that this is the perfect strategy they can use to never have to actually change the status quo.

    eldavi, (edited )

    i don’t know about you; but i’ve been voting for the “lesser evil” for 40 years now and there’s never been anything other than voting for the “lesser evil” each time.

    i’ve started to believe that our circumstances are engineered so that we will only continue to get the “lesser evil” guaranteeing that we will eventually get the greater evil anyways and biden doesn’t have another 25 years to cave in to pressure.

    Grant_M,

    This time the vote is literally for an opportunity to vote again in the future.

    Witchfire,
    @Witchfire@lemmy.world avatar

    Petition for an end to FPTP voting if you want to see change.

    Cryophilia,

    we will only continue to get the “lesser evil” guaranteeing that we will eventually get the greater evil anyways

    How does that follow?

    If you keep voting hard enough for the lesser evil every time, you make things less evil. That’s how democracy works.

    Or are you one of those silly people who never votes in the primaries?

    eldavi,

    here’s your strawman-esque argument with another one: lesser evil and evil work towards the same goal; it’s only difference at the speed at which its executed so voting for the lesser evil means that we’ll get there no matter what.

    Cryophilia,

    Ah, so you’re one of the tinfoil hat Joe Rogan types.

    Voting for the lesser evil brought us expanded healthcare that saved thousands of lives. It brought us legal recognition of gay marriage. It brought us all the social progress that you’re completely ignoring.

    "Both sides"ism brought us the end of abortion protections.

    There is no grand conspiracy to make your life horrible. It’s just one evil party, one good party, and you in the middle refusing to pick because you’re scared of having any agency in your life.

    eldavi,

    so much to unpack here, so there’s good reason not to engage further; except to point out that you’re drinking too much blue maga koolaid.

    you’re the only one to mention “both sides” while this biden voter will only blame democrats if biden loses; not other leftists.

    Cryophilia,

    [Voting for the lesser evil] brought us all the social progress that you’re completely ignoring.

    Start with unpacking this, if you can.

    Cryophilia,

    That moment when doing what your constituents want you to do is “caving to pressure” ugh

    This is a Democracy. Biden was elected to enact the will of the people. If all of a sudden America became fascinated with the color yellow, I would expect him to start wearing yellow pins. If the American people change their minds, our elected leaders should also change their minds, because they work for us.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    condemn anyone who won’t vote to stop a fascist dictator

    Finally standing up to Benjamin Netanyahu and all those Americans who keep voting for him

    captainlezbian,

    Well yeah I condemn any Israeli who votes for him as well.

    LainTrain, (edited )

    Well I’m a trans person and I think you’re a poo-poo head, a meanie even.

    rayyy,

    You have a right to your OPINIONS but please get the FACTS…

    whoreticulture,

    oh cool I’m sure The Israel Times is a great resource. Of course Israel is using them lawfully. Nevermind all the actual reports coming out of Palestine of hospitals being bombed.

    TheKMAP,

    I think it’s sad that your idea can’t stand on its own, and that you have to say you’re trans to not get down voted.

    whoreticulture, (edited )

    I got downvoted hella 💀

    Cryophilia,

    Nah, he’s getting downvoted anyway. For having a shit take.

    jordanlund,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Reply was reported for misgendering the previous poster, but the report did not come from that person. If they aint bothered, then I aint bothered.

    Cryophilia,

    Thanks for not reflexively banning.

    hark,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    Like the privileged Palestinians getting genocided by your centrist idol biden? This is the same biden who said that we need the republican party, by the way. Interesting that someone saying such flowery words about trans people is so strong in his belief that we need a party that is intent on erasing them. You’re complaining about "both sides"ism, but biden is “both sides” the candidate.

    el_bhm, (edited )

    Good that the genocide commited on Palestinians is used universally to bash whoever we dont like.
    Or derail any conversation.

    Truly a blessing. Sorry I meant disgusting.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    People being distracted from the President going online and saying “Trans Rights” by the purely immaterial spectacle of a 9/11’s worth of new dead Palestinians.

    EatATaco,

    Seriously, you know it’s a blessing because even as the tide has started to turn and more politicians are speaking out against it…well, now it’s too late so they’re still terrible and all the same.

    Cryophilia,

    Right?? Like, given the way things are trending, there’s a decent chance Biden will cut off aid to Isrsel. And then these fucks will find something else to complain about, because it was never about Gaza. It was about hurting Biden.

    whoreticulture,

    he literally sent more weapons yesterday. You don’t care about genocide, you just want to stay comfy at home and hear about how us poor trans people are finally being accepted 🥺

    hark,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    You know what’s really disgusting? Dismissing genocide. You can’t stand on a platform of morality when you ignore great evils in favor of flowery words. If you don’t want your precious candidate to be bashed for supporting genocide, here’s a brilliant idea: stop supporting genocide.

    min_fapper,

    bad actor

    hark,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    Tell me how I’m wrong instead of throwing around meaningless labels.

    whoreticulture,

    So everyone who disagrees with your conservative agenda is a bad actor? Huh.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    both sides same

    Once side does some weak tea pandering in a Facebook post while the other disenfranchises 10,000 newly registered voters to rig a Constitutional Amendment vote.

    The solution, as always, is to vote harder. And if we catch you showing disappoint while on your way to the election booth, we reserve the right to blame you for our clown car of corporate flak losers falling flat in the latest round of gerrymandered and voter caged elections.

    Cryophilia,

    The solution, as always, is to vote harder.

    Yes. That’s how democracy works.

    TokenBoomer,

    Democracy’s broken. 😞

    TokenBoomer,

    Comment of the day for me. Thanks.

    FrostyTheDoo, (edited )

    Creating a national day of visibility == pandering on Facebook. It’s an official act and statement by the president of the United States that acknowledges and shines a light on the struggle of what is currently one of our most oppressed and murdered social groups.

    These people really just can’t let someone say “hey maybe Joe Biden is obviously the better option to vote for.” It just really can’t be left alone without someone making a comment like the one I’m replying to right now. I see it in every thread

    spraynpray,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    FrostyTheDoo,

    My point is that Biden’s stance on trans rights is objectively better than Trump’s and therefore saying both sides are the same on this issue is just ignorant or bad faith discussion. I agree Biden could do better than he has. I’d still vote for him over trump in November if those are my only options.

    eldavi,

    These people really just can’t let someone say “hey maybe Joe Biden is obviously the better option to vote for.” It just really can’t be left alone without someone making a comment like the one I’m replying to right now. I see it in every thread

    that’s because you’re either missing or dismissing the context of biden’s 2-faced behavior. he was one of the worst anti-lgbt polictians we’ve ever had in the modern era and it’s only recently that he’s switched sides once it became clear that screwing over lgbt wasn’t popular anymore just to get votes.

    FrostyTheDoo,

    Wait, you mean he has evolved over time on the issue you’d like him to evolve on? Fuck him completely?

    I said it in another comment, I agree Biden could do better on this topic. I also agree there are other candidates I’d rather vote for than Biden. But if we’re talking about Biden vs Trump, both sides are not the same, and it’s dangerous to several different communities to suggest so.

    eldavi,

    Wait, you mean he has evolved over time on the issue you’d like him to evolve on? Fuck him completely?

    biden didn’t evolve; he switched once he realized that it was no longer popular to hate lgbt so he could get more votes

    I said it in another comment, I agree Biden could do better on this topic. I also agree there are other candidates I’d rather vote for than Biden. But if we’re talking about Biden vs Trump, both sides are not the same, and it’s dangerous to several different communities to suggest so.

    you’re the only one saying that both sides are the same; not me.

    FrostyTheDoo,

    I won’t make claims to know why his stance has changed, I’ll leave the assumptions to you. All I know is him recognizing the trans day of visibility is an objectively positive outcome, and it wouldn’t happen under Trump.

    You seem to be confused, as this whole time my point has been that both sides are not the same. I’m glad you agree with me on that.

    eldavi,

    the reason(s) why he’s switched speaks to to heart of whether he’s actually pro lgbtq and how much different, if at all, he is than trump on this issue.

    biden anti-lgbtq body of work is literally decades long where other contemporary politicians were and are still not and it makes sense to question his genuineness since he’s very much in need of votes in this election and only changed his tune when it benefited him politically.

    TheKMAP,

    The problem isn’t that they are the same. The problem is one side is so bad that the other can do whatever they want, because “at least I’m not the other guy and first-past-the-post means you better fall in line and vote for me in November”.

    Cryophilia,

    Which is why it’s a shame that Biden said “trans people are disgusting and we really should execute all of them, but we won’t because it’s unconstitutional”

    Oh wait, what? He didn’t say that? He made the greatest show of public support a President has ever made? Huh, curious. Anyway, let’s talk more about how bad Joe Biden is.

    TheKMAP,

    Your reply is so off topic that I’m just gonna pretend you meant to reply to someone else.

    whoreticulture,

    illustration:

    -----[The Point (whooshing)]----->

    …,.,.,…,.,.,.,.,.,.🤡(you)

    eldavi,

    Which is why it’s a shame that Biden said “trans people are disgusting and we really should execute all of them, but we won’t because it’s unconstitutional”

    Oh wait, what? He didn’t say that? He made the greatest show of public support a President has ever made? Huh, curious. Anyway, let’s talk more about how bad Joe Biden is.

    he’s got a long history of fucking over lgbt and switched sides just to get the votes of the young and people who don’t pay attention; he’s 2-faced at best

    Cryophilia,

    Sources please

    eldavi, (edited )

    it takes less than 30 seconds on google to find biden’s record, so you’re clearly a sealion; but fortunately, the last time i fell for sealioning i created this response and i’m copying/pasting it here just in case anyone truly doesn’t know.

    tldr: biden is a 2-faced politician that goes with whatever is popular atm. this meant that he was anti-lgbt when it was okay and is now suddenly pro-lgbt since that it’ll get him votes nowadays.

    voted for anti-gay marriage in doma

    voted to prevent gays in the military

    his comments on anti-gay marriage in 2006

    his support for banning lgbt in federal service in executive order 10450

    Cryophilia,

    You think Biden should have been vocally pro-trans thirty years ago? He would have been laughed out of office, if not physically attacked.

    eldavi,

    you should look up bernie sanders’ record and watch him not get laughed out of office and only get attacked by the police for it

    Cryophilia,

    Ah yes, President Bernie Sanders…oh wait, he didn’t get enough votes

    Jtotheb,

    But obviously you’re aware that since you’ve completely changed the goalposts, that doesn’t matter, and your original point was wrong.

    Cryophilia,

    He proves my original point. Trying to achieve victory without compromise results in defeat. Bernie couldn’t get enough mainstream support. Biden is likewise limited by what the mainstream is willing to support.

    Anomaline,

    Sanders’ LGBT policy platform was a joke in 2020 compared to everyone else’s, even Bloomberg’s. He’s moved backwards in that area which is kinda distressing.

    Mastengwe,

    ROFL!

    whostosay,

    Change that L to a C and I’ll bring another box of Kleenex for us.

    theblueredditrefugee,

    It’s just words

    gmtom,

    Please just STFU and let us (trnas people) have a brief distraction from all the hatred.

    dandelion,
    @dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I’m not sure how much solace we should take from inauthentic political posturing, but we should certainly try to use being a political football to our advantage (since we can’t help that we’ve been victimized this way, but we can try to make something of the national spotlight being put on us).

    To that end I think it’s beneficial for us to raise our standards and demand more than just words from politicians claiming to be supportive allies. Biden wants to be seen as supporting trans folks? Well, we demand the VA cover gender affirming surgeries. That’s a specific transphobic VA policy that needs to be overturned, and Biden can show he’s an ally by doing something about it.

    gmtom,

    Yes, but appreciating a comment like this, especially in a political environment where a large portion of country, including a good chunk of Bidens voter base, are openly transphobic, does not mean we can’t also call for more substantial action.

    Especially if we acknowledge that due the to the current makeup of the house and the senate, Biden is pretty much powerless to put though any pro-trans legislation, so really the best we can (realistically) hope for is a change in the narrative towards the positive.

    And hell, it’s better than what we have in the UK where our “”“left wing”“”" leader refuses to support trans people.

    assassin_aragorn,

    Labour has straight up moved to the right of Democrats at this point which is crazy

    Cryophilia,

    Dunno which country you’re from, but there is no “Labour” party in America.

    dandelion,
    @dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply we shouldn’t still appreciate when the president of the United States calls trans people the “fabric of our nation”, I think the words themselves are undeniably good.

    I was only trying to say we shouldn’t shut down criticism of those acts as realpolitik, especially if as a community we can possibly leverage that kind of criticism to help accomplish our own political ends.

    It is bizarre to me that the UK has somehow slid even further right than the U.S. in some ways, considering the U.S. is somewhat known for that political brand (where our “left” is still right of the conservative Christian Democratic party in Germany).

    captainlezbian,

    But it’s words that not saying indicates that he’s not willing to keep fighting for us. And he has done things for us.

    simplejack,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    Words matter

    bumphot,

    Politician’s words are worthless

    simplejack,
    @simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

    A large portion of the United States now believes the 2020 election was stolen, and that’s all due to words. Words have impact.

    bumphot,

    What I meant was that they are always lies. They don’t represent reality in any way. Biden doesn’t care about Trans people no more then Trump believes elections were stolen. They just say those lies to get people to support them and then they hurt those same people when they get what they want.

    mlg,
    @mlg@lemmy.world avatar

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/97ff9a90-6368-471e-9ced-351b04c98c0c.png

    BugKilla,
    @BugKilla@lemmy.world avatar

    There is one less bomb…so both sides are not equal.

    Said ironically and factually.

    whostosay,

    That’s really weird because neither of these planes detail that indisputable fact that one party is currently and has been trying to install a dictator for about 6 years now.

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    I am a lover of both words and deeds. This issue needs a lot of bad laws rolled back, but it also needs to have this kind of thing being said at every level of society.

    assassin_aragorn,

    Messaging and signaling are both important. We just have to be wary of when people are disingenuous. There’s value in introducing progressive legislation like how Sanders and AOC do even if it isn’t going to pass, just like there’s value here in affirming that trans people are people who matter.

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    Put it on the record. Make them write down what’s happening. Keep those receipts.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Just tiresome to read “Joe Biden becomes first president to wave a trans flag from the stairs of Air Force One” and then turn the page and read “Florida legislature passes the ‘Install Land Mines In Women’s Restrooms Act’ and funds it to the tune of $40M”

    assassin_aragorn,

    Absolutely, but that’s not something the president has powers over. We need Congress to pass a law that allows the federal government to crack down hard on states doing this. And we need a Congress to bitch slap the Supreme Court back into actually following the Constitution and not being a right wing mouthpiece.

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s more than tiresome, it’s a fucking holocaust in motion. I’m just taking the Ws where I can.

    S_204,

    That word is being abused lately. Trans people aren’t being packed into trains and sent to gas chambers.

    What’s happening to them isn’t ok and laws need to protect their rights like everyone elses, make no mistake about it but conflating it with the Holocaust, doesn’t help the victims make progress. We need to use accurate language to combat the inflammatory language being used by the bigots trying to limit Trans rights IMO.

    A_Random_Idiot,

    That word is being abused lately. Trans people aren’t being packed into trains and sent to gas chambers.

    Just cause we’re not there yet doesnt mean we’re not heading there

    Cryophilia,

    So it’s not in action. It’s just attempted. Or being planned for.

    S_204,

    You’re not wrong but we should still use the correct language so that when we actually get somewhere nasty, the language isn’t diminished beyond the point of usefulness.

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    My bad, the word I was looking for is genocide

    S_204,

    Ya, still losing it’s meaning with the overuse and weaponization of the word.

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    What it means is “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group”. The GOP is definitely trying to create a world without trans people by any means necessary, so unless your quibble is that trans isn’t an ethnic group, I don’t see how I’m misusing that word.

    TokenBoomer,

    They’re not an ethnic group, and unless everyone in the United States are trans, it doesn’t apply. Persecuted, discriminated, yes. Genocide, no.

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    And yet, if something so evidently man-made and contrived as nationality can constitute a grounds for the definition of genocide, then so too could we use any number of qualities more integral to the human condition to speak intelligently about genocide. It beggars the imagination to suppose we can gain anything by fretfully splitting hairs when we have a word to hand which quite precisely encapsulates the most ardent desires and aims of the perpetrators. People are being murdered, terrorized, made illegal, and hounded out of public life through political means by elected officials and the apparatus of state, whom themselves do not mince words. Historians are the ones who must take care with their words, and even they know when to say the word “quisling”.

    TokenBoomer,

    It is being debated.

    Some legal scholars and transgender rights activists have argued this definition should be expanded to include transgender persons. Others have critiqued the term “transgender genocide” as inappropriate for modern Western contexts, arguing that current levels of discrimination and violence fail to reach the legal definition of genocide.

    Gradually_Adjusting,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m glad it’s a subject among academics, that’s more or less as it should be. I am not bound by their findings in either case; the real world value of a “legal definition” in the international courts has been demonstrated to be of limited use to prevent or discourage genocide in any case; ask a Palestinian.

    Cryophilia,

    Which is not happening yet, although they want it to be.

    S_204,

    Are you claiming that not providing the medical care to transition is akin to deliberate killing?

    Cuz even the most Liberal courts are going to struggle with that one…

    shiroininja,

    you and your sane logic

    Ultragigagigantic,
    @Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

    Religous fundamentalists setting the stage to seize control of the nation and institute a authoritarian government to carry out a genocide?

    Sounds serious!

    So when are democrats dropping gun control considering this imminent threat?

    Armed queers bash back.

    SocialistRA.org

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    attaboy, Joe.. set the example that makes this Nation great.. i'm proud i voted for you..

    bumphot,

    You are going a bit too far with being proud, since he openly sidestepped congress to fund genocide in Gaza.

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    if you voted for anyone else, you don't know what it means to be proud of your vote, so your opinion doesn't mean shit

    bumphot,

    You should never be proud of voting for someone, they are all crooks.

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    you are a slave

    bumphot,

    ?

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    exactly.. an ignorant slave, and you don't even realize it.. you don't know what it means to be proud of your vote, so you also don't know what it means to take responsibility for your vote.. if you have no responsibility for your vote, you are a slave..

    bumphot,

    Sorry mister educated high-class. Shame the poor slaves that are too stupid to fight for their rights. You as an educated high class society man should tell us poor slaves how we should vote for some rich morons that have only their rich pockets in interests. We, ignorant slaves, shouldn’t even be allowed to vote, if we can’t even be proud for voting for some idiot high-class fascist such as you.

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    you're a slave because you're so reactionary.. i'm just a citizen, and you don't even qualify for that..

    bumphot,

    oh no, I am so hurt by your high-class educated words

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    peasants are always self conscious of their lack of education.. it makes them belligerent..

    bumphot,

    I highly respect peasants, workers and slaves. And would much rather be on their side of history then of some rich fascist snobs. PS: I assume you are a young kid in collage, so I will not participate in shaming you anymore. When you grow older you will understand how wrong your values are right now.

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    ah yes, the honorable peasant, digging in the mud.. dig on, peasant..

    Ultragigagigantic,
    @Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

    I am glad you got to vote for the person that best represents you. Why not the rest of us as well?

    Doing away with first past the post voting will allow people to vote third party with no spoiler effect. More people voting = more democratic votes.

    Can someone explain why blue states are still using FPTP voting?

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    i got to vote for an honest man, who cares about his fellow Americans, and who makes friends all over the world.. and he makes all our enemies whine like little bitches..

    Cryophilia,

    Can someone explain why blue states are still using FPTP voting?

    Because if only blue states get rid if FPTP and no red states, Republicans will gain a lot more power in government. They’d have a lock on the Presidency forever and possibly a permanent majority in both houses of Congress.

    If all states did it, Democrats (and the new leftist coalition in general) would gain more power, but probably only a constitutional convention could force the red states to abandon FPTP.

    bumphot,

    I think this guy theodewere perfectly shows the classic liberal mindset in his insults towards me in the comments here and disdain for the poor and uneducated he has for no reason but to shame them. This is shows the true values of the liberals that pretend to care about the weak and being so highly upvoted it is clear that many agree, but don’t really want to be that open about it.

    Cryophilia,

    I really don’t care.

    FiniteBanjo,

    Statistically incorrect but he’s got the correct attitude.

    EDIT: Just a bad headline, no surprise.

    BigMacHole,

    Just like when he SAID he supports Human Rights in Palestine!

    bumphot,

    Why are people downvoting you when you are 100% right.

    moon,

    So generous of Biden to give Fox News something to cry 24/7 around the clock about.

    bumphot,

    That is part of the strategy of both parties for decades now, to talk about controversial issues that don’t affect our lives as much as wars and economy, so that we get busy arguing about these things instead of seeing that we have very important common goals as people vs the politicians. A classic divide and conquer strategy.

    Harbinger01173430,

    …fabric is a thing. Is he Calling them things!?

    bumphot,

    I wish democrat politicians would stop with their propaganda on lemmy. Like it is anything new that some politician lies and pretends to care about minorities while funding the actual genocide. There classic liberal distraction tricks from more urgent issues don’t work on anyone who thinks for themselves.

    wolfpack86,

    “part of the fabric” not “the fabric”

    I’m an ally, but at the end of the day let’s not over conflate statements. It doesn’t serve anyone a favor.

    Over stating gives poor intentioned people room and also means that supporters relent.

    “The fabric” should never apply to any group tbh.

    Shadywack,
    @Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

    Or apply to all groups, but I agree, not to any one group.

    sugarfree,

    Hahaha what the fuck

    markus99,

    literally what I said lmao

    markus99,

    lol

    Emerald,

    If there was a Joe Biden bingo card, “fabric of our nation” would be on it.

    eldavi,

    he needs (a) new speech writer(s)

    DragonTypeWyvern,

    It’s a thing with political messaging to keep the messages similar. Honestly it works pretty well with “fabric.” You can only have so many backbones, but you can weave new threads into fabric to make something beautiful, etc

    Grant_M,

    LOVE POTUS Joe.

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