This is true, but why? Because we have plurality voting and the electoral college. STAR voting, approval voting, ranked choice voting. Any of those voting systems would fix that, along with ending the electoral college. 1 Citizen, 1 Vote.
I had difficulty parsing the article title. I thought it meant that not voting means you back trump (since this is a common narrative by democrat supporters), but actually it’s saying that people who vote less consistently support trump more.
Pretty much, yeah. I realize you’re just engaged ins some tankie sarcasm in some twisted attempt to dissuade voting for Biden, but this time we do need to vote for Biden. Sitting on your hands is a vote for trump and fascism, turning Israel loose on Palestine, and handing Ukraine to Russia. But you tankies should have spent more money on buying a better republican instead of this absolute idiot trump. But that would probably mean someone smarter who wouldnt buy your BS.
And you’re either a useful idiot doing Trump’s dirty work for him, or you are a shithead working to tank Biden’s support so Trump can get elected.
Assuming you’re the former, your stupid third party candidate will NEVER get into office. If you’re so determined to have a choice outside of D and R, start working RIGHT FUCKING NOW to get RCV in for 2032…assuming we still have an election to vote in, rather than being dictated to by Herr Drumpf.
They do dominate every election. No Democrat politician makes any move that would anger moderates or liberals. Leftists? Fuck em. Progressives? Never heard of em.
That is until they lose an election and then it’s a field day where leftists and progressives are causing the downfall of the united states.
In 2016, I saw vitriol online from Hilary voters against people who voted for the green party. They were blamed for her loss. Granted, I think those people were angry and delusional, but they do/did exist
The less you campaign for electoral reform in your state, the more you support the republican party.
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is representedby their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
You believe it’s critical to vote for the democrats to beat the Republicans, thus you should 100% be fully invested in passing electoral reform in your state.
Electoral reform needs to be the number one priority for every democrat. This is a existential threat to our nation, so we must use EVERY tool at our disposal. No more waiting. This especially goes for those in blue states.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
I want to repeat this as much as possible because I think it’s incredibly important. When you vote for a president, you are not voting for one person, you are voting for thousands. You are voting for an entire branch of government, possibly 2. The president appoints an insane amount of positions, so when you vote for the one person you need to also think about all the other positions they will be nominating people for. Hundreds of federal judges, hundreds of secretaries, dozens of heads of departments and agencies, hundreds of ambassadors, and most importantly, potentially lifetime appointments of Supreme court judges, which can flip an entire other branch of government. There are also tons of lower level positions on top of those, and if that’s not enough already, many of these appointments span multiple presidencies, so you’re not just voting for the next 4 years, but potentially long after that.
So when you’re looking at the ballot, do not think about the names on the paper, think about the thousands of incredibly important, powerful, and influential roles that they will fill. As powerful as the president is, when you add up all those other positions, they are even more important than the one position of president.
And if you want to know why we haven’t made much forward progress, well… we flip parties every 8 years.
If you want to know why we’re backsliding, it’s because when Republicans have an advantage it’s 58/42 and when Democrats have an advantage it’s 51/50 for two weeks.
Over the past 50 years Republicans have had more political power in this country.
Democrats held a comfortable dual majority during four years Obama’s presidency and aside from the ACA did fuck all with it. And that’s just in recent history. Go back a bit farther and they had 8 straight years. Go back a bit farther and Democrats had comfortable dual majorities for 26 years straight.
Your own link disproves your point and makes mine. Yeah, there were times with House and Senate Democrat majorities, usually with a Republican president.
Republicans have had more control.over the direction of this country than Democrats for the past fifty years.
You could also make the thin line for president larger, which would make it more obvious.
My fucking god what is it going to take for you fucking zealots to wake the fuck up and get angry at rich politicians fucking us over regardless of party? Fucking wake up. What the fuck.
Fuck the Democrats. Fuck the Republicans. Fuck this procorporate trash.
Serinus made a great point. Republicans have had their hands on the levers of power because shitheads want to see liberals suffer, and OTHER shitheads scream bloody murder because they didn’t get the rainbow alicorn they swore they were promised. Cluebus for ya, pal. More than ultra-leftie liberals get to call the shot in the USA and you taking your fucking ball and going home hurts all of us…
If you have thoughts of suicide, do what the article says to do and talk to someone. If things are so bad that you’re contemplating killing yourself, this is a dangerous position to be, and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, even a Trumper or a useful idiot. But throwing that link about suicide down won’t change my point.
You don’t always get exactly what you want from a politician. Ask the Kiwis. They recently stayed home, DESPITE their country offering multiple Left-Wing parties and a system that ensures their vote for one of those Left-Wing parties won’t result in one of the Right-Wing Parties being elected, and now, National, ACT, and NZ First (their Conservative parties, going from main-stream to whacko-extreme) are calling the shots and have rolled back EVERY left-wing priority they could get their hands on at a rapid pace. This is what you get when you say ‘not liberal enough’ and stay home, and that’s BEFORE FPTP used here in the USA gets in on the game.
Again. One of two things will happen in January.
Biden will start his second term, doing much the same as he’s done in the first term, SLOOOWLY and ever so painfully eeking out some Liberal priority or another, and then being shut down by the Right-Wing Court.
Trump will start his second term, and you’ll be fighting to not be disappeared into the back of some white van by literal secret police while Trump’s goons enact Project 2025 to ‘erase woke everywhere’.
Every vote Biden doesn’t get…is an increase of the chance that everything you supposedly stand for BEYOND Israel being undone while you dodge shitheads with white vans like Floyd Protesters did in Seattle. I’m just going to be here to remind you and everyone else who reads this of that truth.
Ok. I tried to have a little decorum when I thought you might be suicidal, but I can see you’re just a dishonest piece of shit who uses dishonest debate tactics.
Let me be clear. Reader, if you feel like this is hopeless and the only way out is death, think of your friends and family, and go talk to somebody first. Your pain may end, but it’ll go on for everyone else around you, and it won’t solve the problems with the world.
Also, consider the depths that the pieces of shit that would leverage an article about suicide as a weapon to cudgel people who advocate for using your political voice have sunk to, and vote appropriately. There are plenty of comments here and other places about the good Biden has done, and if you experienced 2017 through 2020, you know how bad Trump is for Left-wing causes specifically and all causes generally. The guy is an incompetent piece of shit backed by some scarily competent destroyers, and your anger over what Biden has or has not done will ensure those destroyers get the reins of power. If he gets in, gay people, non-Christians, transgender people, minorities, women, and even just plain decent people will be in the crosshairs of a new Republican dictatorship. Remember: Trump’s closing moves in 2020 were to abduct protestors into white vans by literal secret police and beat the shit out of them. This is where you can expect Trump to begin, and Project 2025 calls this out explicitly by advocating for activating the national guard and military to suppress protests as ‘insurrections’. This is what is coming if you let this shithead ^^^^ get into your head and vote third party or stay home.
And god damn, we need the Democratic Party in these conversations saying the exact same fucking thing.
You all just fucking love accusing anyone of staying home or voting 3rd party of allowing Trump to come into power. That logic applies just as well to people who kill themselves before the election. Stick to your guns here. The young people who kill themselves are just spoiled brats who have zero legitimate reasons for thinking nobody, including Biden and pro-corporate democrats, is doing what is necessary to improve things. These ignorant, childish people who off themselves are exclusively responsible for literally everything. And there is nothing morally wrong with force feeding them atrocious choices year after year after year and anyone who says otherwise is a Russian bot.
You want to push this narrative then really push it. Lean 100% into it.
I’m not suicidal but personally I would rather die than vote for another procorporate piece of shit candidate who openly defies the will of the people he’s depending on to get re-elected. And I’m not the only one.
So now you have a choice: Keep screaming at people who would rather die than keep propping up your disgusting, selfish, evil candidates because the other guy is worse or make material compromises leftward which hold promise of making meaningful improvements towards our futures.
This ain’t no big revelation to anyone. Since the 1960’s Republicans have relied on liberal voter’s apathy to win seats in government. It’s liberalism’s greatest weakness and failure - the belief that someone else should be responsible because they can’t be bothered.
When you don’t vote you are voting for the guy who wins.
You hate trump but you hate the other guy too. You don’t vote. That’s one more vote not going against the guy who wins.
Say you have 100 people voting. 60 people decide not to vote. Out of the 40 people who vote 25 vote for guy A and 15 vote for guy B. Guy A wins majority even though only 25 people out of 100 voted for him. This means that guy A caters to the 25 people who voted for him and the 60 people who didn’t bother to vote get zero representation even though they’re the majority.
If the 60 people who didn’t vote decided “he’s not great but he’s better than guy A I will vote for guy B” guy B would win with 75 votes, an actual majority.
Sometimes it’s better to vote for the lesser of two evils and push the not great guy to do better than to just resign your fate to the worst guy and let the entire thing just burn.
That may be true and all but I take it you didn’t read the article, because that not what it was about.
They polled people and those who are regularly vote in past elections tend to be pro Biden, those whom hadn’t voted in recent elections tended to be pro Trump.
Which is ironic because if everyone just got out and voted we might just have a send Trump presidency on our hands. I could be wrong, but I suspect that’s the opposite of what you are thinking would happen.
need I remind you that Trump lost the popular vote and won? With 100% (99.99%…) then it likely wouldn’t have been so close. Trump won because of voter apathy towards HRC.
Also your comment doesn’t take into account voter suppression, disenfranchisement and gerrymandering- all of which are self evidently powerful by token of how common they are.
President Joe Biden performed much better among frequent voters, while Trump had a large lead among people who haven’t voted recently.
Yes, it seems you are correct; according to this article if you want Biden to win you have to tell people NOT to vote. I imagine (I don’t have numbers) this is the opposite of what most of us expected.
As an outsider, though neighbor in Canada, I can’t truely comprehend why Trump has the support he does. I sort of get it when looking at specifics (some people enjoy racism, others think he’d stir things up and create change) but the Evangelical support alone is baffling. I’m not religious but went to schools with religion as a subject (didn’t always focus on Christianity in the Anglican one but other one did) and the idea that anyone remotely Christian, or anyone that thinks they have religious values could vote for him makes me want to do the exorcist head spin and spew green pea soup. I didn’t think of that idea in a religious way just an absurd reaction to the situation but it sort of fits.
I’d definitely vote for the inanimate carbon rod over Trump, but the sandwich has merit too.
Trump isn’t racist. That’s a narrative the Left has been throwing around for years. He’s won numerous black awards, has had numerous black support, and only when he ran against Democrats was he labeled by the left as a “racist.”
Religious people will always vote conservative, no matter who the candidate is. My Mexican family are very religious Catholics, and even they vote for Trump because they always feel that a Republican better protects their religious rights.
The Democrat party is doing everything and anything to stop him from running, and this only makes his case stronger.
Historically, different Christian denominations used to rally behind the two political parties against each other, back when everyone was Christian. If I recall, if you had Catholics on one side, you’d usually find Protestants on the other. Of course this was also back when Republicans were the progressives, and Democrats were conservative.
Things are different now, but there is definitely still a more liberal contingent of Christians who are more in line with ‘separation of church and state’, and the more fundamentalist side whose schools have literally taught their children that it’s their Christian duty to vote for Trump.
I think a lot of Trump’s support is imaginary. We’ve had several elections, including the 2022 election, where the polls said we were going to get destroyed, but the Republicans way underperformed their polls. Perhaps it’s over-correction for 2016 when the polls overstated Democratic Party chances. Perhaps they’re over-sampling Republicans, not accounting for the fact that many older, more Republican-leaning people who distrusted the science behind COVID got themselves sick with COVID and then died from it. Or maybe they’re just making wild-ass guesses and don’t have a fucking clue because asking 1000 people what 220 million people are going to do six months away is always a tough thing to do.
That said, I’d still campaign like I was 5 points down in the polls if I was Biden, going 50 State Strategy to get ALL the votes he can, even the ones that ‘don’t count’, and if I was a voter that’s even REMOTELY aligned to the Left, I’d VOTE like he was down 1 point in the polls, and make damn sure I got my vote in for him. The alternative is just that much worse.
Meanwhile, there’s MILLIONS who are going to vote for him because everyone keeps telling them not too…I love how minorities are told that they’re “not good enough” to vote Republican.
Yup, which is why the Republicans try to make it as difficult as possible to vote, especially for minorities. Don’t forget Trump said if minorities vote, Republicans will never win another election.
Also, why they focus on voter suppression and divisive propaganda every election to get the lefties all riled up about whatever makes them stay home. I wonder which issue it is right now!?
Israel. The tankies (some of whom are probably Russian trolls) are pushing the “Genocide Joe” narrative. They like to talk about principles but that means nothing when the brown shirts start throwing punches and are backed by the government.
I really wish Biden would take a harder line to get that under control. At the very least it’s aid that ought to be going to Ukraine which is instead being used for that disgusting mess.
The only justification I can think of is that it’s the only leverage we have over them and without it they would have no reason to be “restrained” at all. Even then I have my doubts.
In other words, more elections years you voted in since 2018 makes it more likely you voted for Biden.
This makes sense because Trump pushed turnout for the Dems with his deeply unpopular presidency. And this same dynamic can sink Biden in 2024 if he continues to be more unpopular than Trump.
I am voting for neither. I’m going to match what I care about with a specific candidate, because I don’t like Trump or Biden. [/opinion]
Now I’ll just sit and wait for the “you idiot” comments and the vitriol geyser to blow. This should be entertaining to watch people think my vote’s going to make a difference in the electoral college.
To be clear, I’ve surrendered nothing to you whatsoever. My vote will be counted toward another candidate available to me on the ticket, just neither Trump nor Biden. That you intend to vote for genocide or fascism is something you are so gleeful to do. Enjoy.
To be clear, thanks again for surrendering your choice to me.
Honestly it’s kinda weird that you prefer genocide and fascism to genocide or fascism, so it really is best you let more rational people decide for you.
To be clear, I’m voting productively instead of as a sheep. It’s not surrendering anything to you. If you are beholden to the two party system and fall into the trap of “keep the other guy out” instead of voting for someone in good conscience, that’s you being part of the problem.
Well, for one, vote for the only major party that MIGHT give a shit about Gaza or may be less gung-ho about supporting Israel, and for two, advocate in other ways. Organize protests, make calls to your representatives and senators, donate to charities that will assist the people of Gaza, etc.
Keep in mind, Donald Trump moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and doesn’t give a flying fuck about Gaza. He’s worse for Gaza than “Genocide Joe” is.
It’s like you’re expecting national policy to turn instantly based on protests. That’s now how the world works, unfortunately. Things take time.
It’s terrible, I’m not in any way trying to downplay the genocide that is happening. But Israel and the US have been firm allies for a long time. Change won’t come quickly. And it won’t come at all if Trump is elected.
Ok then expand on this claim I know exactly what you mean. Be specific. Explain how we can know which protests will and won’t work and explain what time frame we can expect.
Ok then expand on this claim I know exactly what you mean. Be specific. Explain how we can know which protests will and won’t work and explain what time frame we can expect.
Ah, gotta call in the mods when I call you out? Fair enough, I wasn’t very civil (though I’m convinced you’re not arguing in good faith to begin with).
Let’s try again.
Roflmao, I have to do all that work to justify voting against fascism?
Kindly go ply your goalpost-moving trade elsewhere, perhaps under a bridge? That is where those who don’t argue in good faith are most welcome, as I understand it.
You’re so right. That’s why nothing has ever changed. Women still can’t vote. PoC still use separate bathrooms. Sodomy is illegal and gay people can’t get married. How wise you are!
You’re under the impression all of these things were achieved with nothing more than people standing around with signs? No work stoppages? No violence? No protest votes?
And if you don’t then again I ask, what are you recommending we do?
You’re under the impression all of these things were achieved with nothing more than people standing around with signs?
Wow, weird, I don’t remember saying that at all! Not sure where you got that notion.
No work stoppages? No violence? No protest votes?
Work stoppage is a form of protest. Violence, while not always necessary, has been useful in some occasions, but is often first used by the ruling class.
again I ask, what are you recommending we do?
I think I’ve already told you. Vote against fascism, and also, and this is the key one and most important: fuck off.
For starters the United States does not have a popular vote. The last two Republicans to win a presidential election did so while losing the popular vote. Every vote literally does not count.
If everyone who used Lemmy decided to or not to vote in this election, it probably wouldn’t change anything unless most of us are in the same swing state.
So when you said the original commenter not voting makes your vote count more. It’s literally not the case. Unless by some miracle you live in the same gerrymandered district of the same swing state.
The article is actually about how people that have voted more consistently will vote for Biden and people that vote more inconsistently will vote for Trump.
Very different from how I interpreted the headline.
Exactly. It’s such a Trumpy thing to say, it’s exactly in line with all his other nicknames for people, I don’t know how anyone gets taken in by this shit
This is the future that the GOP is offering Americans.
Climate Chaos. Huge national debt. Huge income inequality. Nuclear proliferation. Medical industry profiteering. Putin’s Evil Empire. The end of democracy.
So I can live with the maturity level of seeing two awful candidates and choosing not to choose either one. I feel like my own point still stands, that the distinction between fascism and genocide shouldn’t be a thing I have to choose to live with.
I don’t like Trump, and I won’t be voting for him, but I also don’t like the precedents set by Biden in a few areas, and his inability to reign in the escalation in Gaza despite having the levers available to pull to immediately ease immense human suffering.
If there was a candidate like say, Obama, available to vote for this would be easy and straightforward. A bumbling senile idiot/puppet or a hostile fascist dictator. Don’t lump me in with either of the massive pools of idiots that put us here. I’m proud to be outside of this.
The thing is one is still objectively better than the another. If you choose not to support the lesser evil, you are basically supporting the worst case scenario.
Edit: You need to accept the fact that consensus is oftentimes not possible and have to deal with a compromise.
Mean tweet orange guy also supports the genocide. With the added caveat that he wpuld like to expedite this genocide because not enough people are dying.
This is the future that the GOP is offering Americans.
Climate Chaos. Huge national debt. Huge income inequality. Nuclear proliferation. Medical industry profiteering. Putin’s Evil Empire. The end of democracy.
Democrats have failed to offer any viable alternative. Even when golden opportunities present themselves they choose corporations over the people. Every single time.
Even when golden opportunities present themselves they choose corporations over the people. Every single time.
This is completely wrong. They way to look at the objectively is to follow the money. The first thing Biden did was raise the minimum taxes on corporations from 0% to 15%. Even if that was the only thing Biden did it would still be more significant than every other thing combined. But he’s done lots of other things corporations don’t like.
You’ve clearly never heard of 3rd party candidates then! If you have heard of them, I want you to ask yourself why you feel compelled to so overly simplify a situation that you boil it down to a blatant lie.
Okay when you blatantly lie like that. I know there’s no reasoning with you. It’s like when Trump supporters refused to admit when he’s lied about something. You just told me something about third party candidates but also told me they don’t exist. You’re clearly contradicting yourself and you clearly know better.
3rd party candidates clearly do exist. Third party candidates have even won elections in this country. I’ll admit it’s been a long time. Do you realize the primary obstacle third parties face is the very mentality you’re exhibiting? If we don’t organize and try to actually do better, we will never do better.
I don’t think speaking with you will be productive, so this will probably be my last message to you. Good luck dude✌️😎
I definitely have a better opinion of people who vote for third party candidates than people who don’t vote at all. A major problem with our current elections is that it’s far more mud-slinging about the opposition than positivity. If the race becomes a little bit less two-party, candidates might start talking about their advantages, rather than deriding the opponents.
That said, it will still do nothing healthy for this election - it’s a long-term strategy, in a world where a bad president can do so much damage in the short term.
Thank you stranger! I completely agree. I can’t keep track of what I’ve said and what threads, but my whole basic idea is if you’re not in a swing state then vote third party. I completely agree it’s a long term strategy.
Don’t just think about the position of president. Think about the thousands of appointments they make. It’s not voting for 1 position, it’s voting for an entire branch of government, potentially 2. Whatever you think about them, remember that it’s gonna be either Biden or Trump appointing all those positions, so even if you hate both of them equally, add up all the incredibly powerful positions they appoint and compare the sum of it all. It’s a compounding magnitude, so I cannot imagine how anyone can not have a preference when you are considering the full reach and impact that the 1 position has. Supreme court justices, federal judges, agency and department heads, countless secretaries, regulatory board heads, ambassadors and more and more, plus all the influence on positions those appointees have below them.
Sorry, but can you and your strange tribe just fuck off?
that genocide is entirely israels fuckup, in a networked world like ours you can try to shift the blame to everyone, but the real fascists do sit in israel, and they wouldn’t be hindered even if the US sanctioned the shit out of them.
I know the US have an “world-police”-image, but that does not mean that the president of the US of A is the chief cop for the middle east.
Also, Trump will do fuck-all for Gaza, so try preventing fascism at home before sticking your fingers in the middle east - again
No one is being shamed here. The title of the article is a simple truth. And if you actually read the article, you’d have seen that it’s pretty well explained and understood fact.
But that’s not your game here, is it? I mean, your post and comment history illustrates the fact that from appearances… you’re here in bad faith.
You- and MANY like you here, are seemingly only critical of the left- NEVER the right. You’ve been called out for this before. And yet, you never have an explanation for it. Also….Anyone can check your comment history in the mod logs to see how much misinformation is shared by you. So it’s no big secret anymore why you are here and what you’re about.
But don’t let this get in the way of- whatever it is you think you’re doing here.
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