barney,
@barney@mas.to avatar

A new blog post is out from @ElectionGraphs. That's @abulsme's site where he builds predictive models based on current polls.

Highlights:

"If a Biden vs Trump election was held today (it won't be), it would be fundamentally too close to call."

"[polls' trends] have at least leveled off, and may have started moving in Trump's direction again."

https://electiongraphs.com/blog/2023/08/13/leveled-off/

TruthSandwich,

@barney @ElectionGraphs @abulsme

Ignore the polls. Focus on winning.

Bugaboo,
TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @barney @ElectionGraphs @abulsme

I’m not saying polls are worthless. Biden should absolutely be paying attention to them, especially the more precise ones about which areas are safe, lost, and flippable.

But, for us, there is no upside to pollwatching. It’s really just another kind of doomscrolling.

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @barney @ElectionGraphs @abulsme Fair enough. It goes without saying that generally polls are meant to promote an implicit narrative. Eg, if a poll says 80% would vote for Trump again, it's intended to a) encourage Trumptards, and b) depress Dems so they don't bother turning up to vote. Even accurate polls can flip on a dime and change, and temperamentally I favor a more 'intuitive' approach to gauging the warp and woof of the shifting sands of the political landscape. But as you say, polls aren't for me, they're for insiders, wonks, and people who like to feel depressed.

TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @barney @ElectionGraphs @abulsme

As you point out in that image, none of these polls can fully anticipate the effect of his legal troubles, or his increasing derangement.

But, in the meantime, there’s nothing in the polls that is relevant to how we should act.

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @barney @ElectionGraphs @abulsme He could die, flee to Russia, or KSA, be neutralized by legal quagmires; public opinion is fickle, and the election is months away. My sense of it is that support for Trump is melting like a blob of butter in the Arizona desert at noonday, and him running a campaign from prison is logistically impossible.

TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @barney @ElectionGraphs @abulsme

I’m fine with focusing on any actionable data. But, for us, the polls are not.

All they do is alternate hope and anxiety. Ignore them.

barney,
@barney@mas.to avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo

Here's how current polling data are, broadly speaking, actionable:

There is now a prevailing sense that "Trump is going down." That his world is collapsing, and he cannot possibly win the presidency in 2024.

That belief is wrong. To the extent that people believe it, they will make the same mistakes they made in 2016, and achieve the same result.

The (very early) polling data empirically disprove the falsehood that "Trump cannot win."

TruthSandwich,

@barney @Bugaboo

Yeah, nobody with half a brain thinks that. We all lived through 2016. We know how racist America is.

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @barney Finally, someone who can identify the real problem: Americans voted for Trump because he's a racist, xenophobic Nazi tyrant, not despite it. The sickness in America's soul created Trump.

HistoPol, (edited )
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@Bugaboo @TruthSandwich @barney

IMO, it started with the rotten-to-the-core apples and + the most successful, .

just took egocentricity + pettiness nxt level.
Too much credit for .

The disease, however, started in the 1930s and then wasn't eradicated: the Nazi movement, and the fact that the sedition trial against 25 members of congress ended in bedlam b/c the judge died. Hardly anyone was ever held legally accountable. No denazification

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Without particularly disagreeing, I’d take it back a bit further.

The US Nazi movement is itself an extension of the Confederacy. Even the German Nazi movement was influenced by American white supremacy, including Jim Crow laws.

I mean, why do you think Hitler railed on about Black people when Germany had approximately none? He got it from us.

HistoPol, (edited )
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

You know, @TruthSandwich, that is, actually, a far stretch.

However, I seem to remember something of that kind, too. Something about how this was organized in the South...Can't recall at present.

I will not argue that the were built as a * and that most of its institutions still suffer from the foul compromises needed to achieve a "state of the union," i.e., the ' failed, too.
/s: "We shall overcome" never lived up to its potential. /s ...
@Bugaboo @barney

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar
TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Yes, Reconstruction failed, which is how we got the Jim Crow laws. It wasn’t until LBJ that we finally ended them.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

Yes, the * were abolished in 1968, but in many regions "on paper," but not in the minds and hearts of a huge part of its citizens.
Nowadays, there is more finesse.
One of the best examples is .
And, of course, the not-on-paper waged by the . The are scared sh*tless of becoming a minority, which is demographically inevitable.

https://www.history.com/topics/early-20th-century-us/jim-crow-laws

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

And that’s why we need to stop the fascists now.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich

Very true.

Apart from the and *, this is why I'm here.

The , as of today, seems lost to me. The most powerful men, corporations, and institutions are engaged in an arms race, which has even more momentum than the race + the ensuing .
, the (IMHO not arguably) final step towards a self-aware artificial general intelligence has already begun. The train's left the station.**
*
https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/109894787077782438
@Bugaboo @barney

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

The problem with AI is economics, not killbots.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

This is the current (and growing) problem.
Also: increasingly rampant discrimination (of course: the biased training data.)

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

There are two problems with AI:

  1. It’s not good enough.
  2. It’s too good.
Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @HistoPol @barney I particularly worry about eventually being unable to distinguish between real humans and AI chat-bot trolls on social-media.

TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @HistoPol @barney

What makes you think I’m not an AI?

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

Hm, you're too good (for now.)--In 6-9 months...

I recently asked to create a poem with certain parameters in the stile of a poet I like.
Middle-school level, including repetitions.

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Oh, I don’t know. I’d say I have all the attributes of an AI like ChatGPT. I can spout grammatically-correct nonsense in great quantity, nominally in response to prompts.

Here’s one example: a blog post that was supposed to be about economics but turned out to be about AIs.

https://truth-sandwich.com/2023/05/02/on-the-division-of-pie/

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

In Ordnung, dann erkläre mir doch bitte für welche Fälle die Zinsschranke im EStG greift und wo nicht. 😜

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Entschuldigung, aber ich kann kein Deutsch. Bitte fragen Sie noch einmal auf Englisch.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

That's the point German is no issue for any AI in the US. 😉

Also, you'd have had to hallucinate, as German tax law is no guessing game.
"One word" interpreted incorrectly--wrong solution. 😉

The ultimate test. 😆

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Uhm, you missed my joke, so I’m going to explain it now in hopes of making it funny.

I was referring to an article which gave the example of ChatGTP being asked a question in one of the languages it’s not supposed to know (maybe it was Norwegian?).

It replied, in that language, that it can’t speak that language.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

Ah, forgot about that.
Yes.

It now even masters rare minority languages, and quite some indigenous communities are worried about that (posted about this some months back, but possible not retrievable anymore.)

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Call me strange, but I’d say its a good thing if it preserves languages that might otherwise go extinct.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

Though so, too, they saw it from a "spyware" perspective, sort of.

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Sounds paranoid.

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @HistoPol @barney Well, you know the immortal adage: if you need to explain a joke, it ain't funny.

TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @HistoPol @barney

Story of my life.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar
TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Not after I explain it in painful detail.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar
TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

So, you see, the joke here is that he just told a joke and nobody laughed, so he had to prompt the audience by explaining that he had just told the joke.

This is funny because it shows how unfunny the character is, how bad he is at making jokes.

See, did that help?

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @HistoPol @barney Perhaps you are, who knows? I may be one too, because my grammar, and intelligence are obviously superior to a mere human's. But.. I see I've said too much. Just pretend I'm human for now.. Hey, have you heard about how awesome RFK jr is, and crypto?! 😉

TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @HistoPol @barney

See, that’s the point. We already have Poe’s law. Why are we afraid of the Turing test?

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @HistoPol @barney A question which I'm sure interests a lot of people is whether a machine can achieve true consciousness, or merely mimic it, like a waxwork mimics a life human. Or perhaps the distinction between processing-power, and consciousness is merely one of semantics.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@Bugaboo @TruthSandwich @barney

I am 99% convinced it will happen. In this decade.
Self-awareness is the key.

BTW, who is the biggest threat to 's existence, apart from and what countermeasures would you take to guarantee your energy supply if you were the AGI? Applying human ethics, rationale, based on the data you were trained on?
😉

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Why would an AI care about human ethics? Or humans?

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @HistoPol @barney Perhaps it'd have to be implanted with certain restraints, like in sci-fi movies.

TruthSandwich,
HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

Agree, I've given this a bit of thought:

https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110289799462317618

Oh, and: it did not even work in literature. 😉

TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @HistoPol @barney

I’m with Dennett.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar
TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Daniel C. Dennett.

Basically, he argues that there’s no difference between being conscious and acting in all ways as though you are.

That’s what I was alluding to with my question earlier, about whether you can tell if I’m an AI or not.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

I agree with Dennett and you.

But you are not.
You did not answer my question. 😉

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

Which question?

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @HistoPol @barney Of course, no discussion can be complete without injecting the dark horse in all this, that consciousness is rooted in something intangible, ineffable, which forever eludes AI, i.e the existence of the spirit, or soul, which is consciousness itself.

TruthSandwich,

@Bugaboo @HistoPol @barney

Which is, of course, nonsense.

I summarized Dennett in this blog post.

https://truth-sandwich.com/2019/09/14/tanstaafl/

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

I'll take a look at this tomorrow.
I need to go now, alas.
Hope we can rejoin the discussion some time. 🙏

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich

I'm not afraid.

It is not a sign of great intelligence to fear the inevitable.

"God grant me the serenity

To accept the things I cannot change;

Courage to change the things I can;

And wisdom to know the difference..."

Working on it.

https://www.dailyeffectiveprayer.org/the-serenity-prayer/

(Know about Reinhold Neibuhr partially tainted past. The is still good.)

@Bugaboo @barney

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

**
I am aware that most AI luminaries don't see it this way. Yet.
They see it too exclusively from a computer-science perpective, not from a and learning perpective.

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

AI’s are good, actually, because wealth is good.

The problem is in distribution.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

This time, mass unemployment will quantitatively not be offset by the creation of new jobs. Even the programmers are being replaced.

Idle people, even if fed, do stupid things (panem et circensis.)
UBI, a prerequisite, is a long way off, if it comes at all.
There will be food riots within the next 7 years maybe not quite widespread in the .
And mass .

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

We don’t need new jobs.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich
Maybe.
I can keep busy.
Many interests.

What makes you say that?
@Bugaboo @barney

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

We need more wealth, not more jobs.

If machines pump out enough of the things we need, then why should we dedicate 40 hours a week to work?

Why not 20? Why not 0 unless we actually want to work?

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

Forgot:

Yes, wealth distribution is, in fact, the key.
Progressive and
Virtually free

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

UBI is a non-starter.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich
Maybe in the US.
Several nations are testing it, e.g. Germany.
With mass idleness I see no real alternative...

@Bugaboo @barney

TruthSandwich,

@HistoPol @Bugaboo @barney

I don’t expect mass idleness.

Consider that, when we to a 40-hour workweek, we didn’t suddenly have mass poverty.

People worked less, but made about the same amount of money.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@TruthSandwich @Bugaboo @barney

This time, it's different.

Instead of years months weeks...AI automation, once implemented, takes but seconds and has hardly any variable costs (energy and water-cooling are relatively low).
Learning somewhere on the globe, known instantly everywhere.
A lot of things are not and thus do not need to be 100% correct (e.g., accounting.)
The capex that goes into LLM projects in bigger firms is staggering.
I don’t think, for instance, that all that many...

Bugaboo,

@TruthSandwich @HistoPol @barney It is not in man's nature to be idle. Ask me, who hasn't worked a real job in decades, but nevertheless am always about some business, whether it be gardening, riding my bike, watching porn, or staring pensively out the window wondering where my sex-life went, while a single tear rolls silently down my cold, pallid cheek.

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@Bugaboo
We should talk about that some other time.
Studying something else helps the brain side of things. 😉

As for the private side:
DEFINITELY less virtual SM (in any sense;), more out and about.

Have a great eve all of you!
Was fun.

@TruthSandwich @barney

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar
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