evan, (edited )
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

Is it OK to share misattributed inspirational quotes on social media?

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

OK, very interesting. I am a strong no. Here are my thoughts:

  • Misattributing a quote denies the actual author the credit due.
  • It keeps the reader from evaluating the quote in the real author's context.
  • It put words in the mouth of someone who did not say them.
  • It tricks the reader into evaluating the quote in the misattributed person's context. It lends false credence to the quote.
  • It downplays the importance of ideas and authorship.
  • It shows that you re-share posts uncritically.
evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

One of my favourite examples is this quote from Marianne Willliamson's "A Return to Love", often misattributed to Nelson Mandela:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/7/30/20699833/marianne-williamson-our-deepest-fear-nelson-mandela-return-to-love

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small doesn’t serve the world.”

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

One of the worst parts about misattributed quotes is that they undermine the idea of objective truth.

Nelson Mandela never said that. He said a lot of important things, but that's not something that he said.

Saying that he did say it, just because it feels nice, is obscuring the real world to make a digitally-structured one of our own liking.

Things aren't true just because they feel truthy.

evan, (edited )
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

As a kind of minor aside, almost every time I see a misattributed quote like this, it comes from a self-help book.

We seem to be collectively embarrassed that we like content from self-help books. We need to pretend that we're quoting the Dalai Lama or Malcolm X instead.

This seems unfair. Maybe we should give self-help authors a little more credit. If they say things that ring true to us and that we want to share with others, maybe they deserve some credit for that.

fifilamoura,
@fifilamoura@eldritch.cafe avatar

@evan Or maybe we should simply recognize that self help authors are usually just repackaging various things from religion and psychology!

olireiv,
@olireiv@zeroes.ca avatar

@evan It should at least be mentioned that "self help" is in the capitalism agenda, so that people don't fall into this: https://idronline.org/who-is-self-improvement-for-capitalism-mental-health

GustavinoBevilacqua,
@GustavinoBevilacqua@mastodon.cisti.org avatar

@evan

IIRC misattribution is used since the Middle Age, when some authors attributed their own ideas, or good citations from obscure authors, to famous people like Aristoteles or Plato, just because Winston Churchill was't yet born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchillian_Drift

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

Another problem: misattributing quotes makes it hard for the reader to learn more.

If the quote is correctly attributed, they can look up the author's other quotes or even complete full writings and speeches and maybe learn more.

The best they can do with a misattributed quote is use a search engine on the text. Usually this won't work since the misattribution is often widespread.

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

The main benefit you get from misattributed quotes is that you find out which of your friends is credulous enough to think that someone would buy an entire bus stop ad solely to share a snappy quote about the paradoxes inherent in capitalism

tim_lavoie,
@tim_lavoie@cosocial.ca avatar

@evan I clicked "yes" in terms of absurd hilarity, so I guess it's context specific. Like the ones that have Abraham Lincoln quoted for something recent, it is supposed to be obvious that the misattribution is intentional.

VasyaSovari,

@evan same deal with 'commonly accepted truths'. Lots of people believing a thing in error does not make it true. It makes lots of people wrong. This is still somehow a controversial concept

Loukas,
@Loukas@mastodon.nu avatar

@evan

I try to make sure the quotes I share are correctly attributed, but bad history and myth-making are so prevalent that I won't blame anyone for accidentally sharing a misattributed quote, so I answered qualified no.

Also, good quotes have a certain positive power whatever the attribution and I'd rather people over-share inspiration than under-share it because they are nervous it's wrongly attributed.

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

@Loukas so, you'd prefer for people to spread satisfying lies?

Loukas,
@Loukas@mastodon.nu avatar

@evan no, I don't think that's what I said. Your reply seems hostile to me. Is that how you intended it?

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

@Loukas Here's what you said: “Also, good quotes have a certain positive power whatever the attribution and I'd rather people over-share inspiration than under-share it because they are nervous it's wrongly attributed.”

So, what I believe you're saying here is that you'd rather people spread satisfying lies (X said Y) than that they don't spread them.

Loukas,
@Loukas@mastodon.nu avatar

@evan What I'm talking about is a calculation about how much due diligence it's reasonable to expect from people, and how I see wrong quotes that accidentally get through.

Saying I want people to share lies is a very hostile interpretation. Tbh it makes me regret discussing this with you.

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

@Loukas
If you think "lie" is too strong -- I don't think so, since someone along the chain intentionally and knowingly put that false attribution in place, but OK -- should we say, satisfying falsehoods?

I am not hostile to you; I don't know you very well. You seem nice, though!

I am hostile to the idea that we should spread posts that say what we want to hear even if they're untrue. I think it's very bad for society. The misattributed quote slips very easily into the made-up news story.

tantramar,
@tantramar@nojack.easydns.ca avatar

@evan The lack of awareness around this tendency is a profound failure of curiosity, intellect, and humility. People believe things because they feel good on some level; they allow themselves to be lied to. This feels like the single most consequential human failing. It underlies everything bad that’s happening.

philmoscovitch,
@philmoscovitch@mstdn.ca avatar

@evan I find it hard to imagine anyone being anything but a strong no. Maybe that comes from my journalism background.

guacamayan,
@guacamayan@journa.host avatar

@evan Well, you know what Mark Twain once said:

"Hi! My name is Samuel Clemens."

fifilamoura,
@fifilamoura@eldritch.cafe avatar

@evan To be fair, Williamson probably appropriated it from someone else herself! Her whole philosophy is kind of just a repackaging of other new age stuff.

john,
@john@sauropods.win avatar

@evan that quote is so bad that it’s practically libellous to misattibute it. If Nelson Mandela had said it, I’d be very disappointed in him.

erincandescent,

@evan I think occasionally humor can be gained from the absurdist, deeply out of character quote; which is why I said qualified no.

Otherwise, yeah.

kittylyst,
@kittylyst@mastodon.social avatar

@evan The editor of my current book (it is a new edition of my first title) is insisting on proper attribution for every quote in it.

The process has been very eye-opening - especially finding out how few of some of the great quotes about software have a definitive source.

In some cases, the best we can do is a bunch of the author's friends all saying: "Oh yeah, we totally heard them say that or something very similar loads of times".

flyingsquirrel,
@flyingsquirrel@mastodon.social avatar

@evan I would have been no, but you said "inspirational," which undermines credibility all by itself.

evan,
@evan@cosocial.ca avatar

@flyingsquirrel so, reality can't be inspirational?

flyingsquirrel,
@flyingsquirrel@mastodon.social avatar

@evan It can be, but often isn't.

jwildeboer,
@jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @jwildeboer yes, and you should verify any facts that you see before re-boosting.

    Wikiquote and Quote Investigator are good. Snopes is good for the most egregious.

    You can usually use a sniff test. If it sounds like New Age self-help text, but it’s attributed to someone born in 1821, maybe check the sources.

    If you don't want to be a conveyor of disinformation, get in the habit of confirming things before resharing them.

    eythian,

    @evan

    "If you don't want to be a conveyor of disinformation, get in the habit of confirming things before resharing them."

    -- Oscar Wilde

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @eythian 😡

    duncanlock,
    @duncanlock@cosocial.ca avatar

    @evan
    I voted qualified yes, with the qualification that it be very obvious and very funny.

    apophis,

    @evan poll's over but i'll throw in a write-in for strong no

    it's never okay to share inspirational quotes

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @apophis duly noted!

    lutzray,
    @lutzray@mamot.fr avatar

    @evan «Une idée appartient à celui qui l'exprime le mieux.» —Unknown

    NaClKnight,
    @NaClKnight@mstdn.games avatar

    @evan If it's obvious parody/humor then hell yeah.

    basil,
    @basil@sarcasm.stream avatar

    @evan sure, because

    "What's life without whimsy"

    • Anthony Fauci
    mrencyclopedia,
    @mrencyclopedia@retro.pizza avatar

    @evan Only if it's funny

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @mrencyclopedia disagree

    mrencyclopedia,
    @mrencyclopedia@retro.pizza avatar

    @evan Do you disagree in the sense that you think it's wrong even if you find it funny, or do you disagree in the sense that you don't ever find it funny?

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @mrencyclopedia I disagree in that I don't think being funny is a good enough excuse.

    I think a lot of disinformation is made and distributed just for the lulz, but it can still do a lot of harm.

    So I feel weird saying it's ok to send false information if it's funny.

    marthaweaver,

    @evan What is social media for if not to share inspirational quotes, with no thought or knowledge of their source (or even meaning) because freedom of expression.

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @marthaweaver what indeed

    jamesmarshall,
    @jamesmarshall@sfba.social avatar

    @evan try to verify the quote first, but ultimately I feel the wisdom is more important than who said it. If a mistake is discovered, then correct it. So I went with QY.

    Of course, it's a lot worse when a particular quote reflects badly on someone who didn't actually say it, so be extra careful with those.

    Non-damaging humor is fine, though.

    mrcopilot,
    @mrcopilot@mstdn.social avatar

    @evan
    Whenever I'm conflicted I refer back to:

    "A good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from"

    -Joseph Mengala
    (Probably)

    ghostdancer,
    @ghostdancer@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

    @evan Strong no.
    The main problem is that a lot of those quotes are not easily attributable cause there are no proofs of them being correct but people have already assumed the origin of it. So We all have shared a quote that it was incorrectly attributed.

    tkinias,
    @tkinias@historians.social avatar

    @evan
    It appears you have some trolls among your followers!

    brecht,
    @brecht@social.coop avatar

    @evan So here's how I'd break it down...

    • Dong so accidentally: strong yes. Because sharing inspirational quotes in good faith is obviously OK, and mistakes can happen.
    • Doing so knowingly in earnest: qualified no. It's no big deal but also why?
    • Doing so knowingly as a joke: strong yes. Because the rule of funny.

    Splitting the difference I voted "qualified yes"

    brecht,
    @brecht@social.coop avatar

    @evan Really surprised by the overwhelming majority of the "no" votes here. Lighten up people, it's about inspirational quotes on social media, not perjuring yourself in a court of law...

    mrpotato,

    @brecht @evan

    “Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.” -Adolf Hitler

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @brecht it's about how disinformation spreads. It's dead serious.

    brecht,
    @brecht@social.coop avatar

    @evan I don't know, that sounds a lot like a slippery-slope argument to me, which are almost always wrong. Misattributed motivational quotes are a long way from targeted disinformation campaigns, and if you want to argue that condoning the former will somehow lead to the latter, then that's a strong claim that requires evidence.

    Also, it's an issue that has been around since the invention of writing (e.g. see: https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2019/02/simonides.html), so best of luck to anyone who wants to "solve" it.

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @brecht There's not a clear line between misattributing a quote to Gloria Steinem and misattributing a quote to Hillary Clinton.

    "It feels right and that's what matters" is how disinformation works.

    Nobody has to solve it. We each need to be careful with the words we use and the news we spread, and hold each other accountable so that lies don't spread further.

    brecht,
    @brecht@social.coop avatar

    @evan The reason why conspiracy theories about the political elites "feel right" to a lot of people is because it explains things they've experienced in their own lives. Ordinary people have actually been screwed over by the elites in the past half century. See for example the real wages graph below.

    It's this reality that provides the fertile soil for the vilest of online conspiracies. So I just don't believe that focusing on minor infractions like misattributed quotes will change anything.

    apophis,

    @brecht @evan i like how the very link you posted goes in depth into how hurtful this kind of misattribution is

    brecht,
    @brecht@social.coop avatar

    @apophis What examples of misattribution being "hurtful" does this article cite? I count approximately zero.

    Sure, it's annoying to deal with for historians, like the author of the article. But I don't see anything in this article to suggest these misattributions are harmful to regular people.

    echanda,
    @echanda@mstdn.ca avatar

    @evan
    I've shared misattributed quotes but added the correct attribution.

    evan,
    @evan@cosocial.ca avatar

    @echanda I'm a fan! Thanks.

    adriano,
    @adriano@lile.cl avatar

    @evan Inspirational quotes are the get-well cards of the internet.

    jiinissi,

    @evan only when it's so clearly wrong it's part of the joke.

    ckape,

    @evan I'm going with Roger Rabbit rules here

    skyfaller,
    @skyfaller@jawns.club avatar

    @evan Qualified no. Misattributed quotes are somewhat harmful, but they're not an active danger to our democracy like sharing alt-right content, which we should avoid sharing even to critique it, since you are amplifying its reach.

    Often the misattributions erase less powerful people in favor of people who already enjoy more fame and are therefore more recognizable. But if the meaning is good, it's possible that sharing it could be a net positive under some circumstances.

    GustavinoBevilacqua,
    @GustavinoBevilacqua@mastodon.cisti.org avatar

    @evan

    “Don't trust everything you read on the Internet” — Benjamin Franklin.

    superlime,

    @evan It's important to always do a little bit of research before sharing anything appearing factual!

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