They had some messages regarding a free Ukraine a few updates back. It’s a free app so if he wants to include that in his update message that’s fine to me.
They seem to be pro-Ukraine (or at least anti-Russian invasion) and anti-Chinese authoritarianism. I can’t bring myself to have any beef with either of those positions, really.
And it’s great that it exists, but the average Windows user has no idea that exists and probably no idea how to download and install it because the average Windows user, like the average computer user, is only nominally computer literate.
Those are the people Microsoft constantly fucks over, not people here who tend to know what they’re doing. A large percentage of people here don’t even use Windows except maybe through an emulator.
This is not enshittification. Here's where the term came from:
Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. I call this enshittification
In what way is adding an AI assistant to Notepad either "abusing their users" or "abusing their business customers?" It seems like it's just a useful new feature to me, that's still in the "be good to your users" phase.
Adding an AI seems OK but per the article it will do it similar to Paint Co-creator. I can already see those types of “features” will get promoted more and more in updates and take more part of the screen.
Microsoft will want revenue trickling in from Notepad of all places…
AI assistants usually need to upload the data to process it. So it’s potential enshitification via adding data upload/harvesting features to a trusted offline text editor. Usually companies have ways to generate revenue streams based on the data from these “free and useful features”. Adverts based on what text files you open might be the long term end goal.
That would be fine, but a lot of these features are added in an update, with complicated setups or mods to turn them off. Start bar local app search now gets sent to bing search by default, thats almost never what people want. Most people wont know how to disable it or care. But I guess thats fine as long as Microsoft gets to increase its bing usage stats and collect more user data.
To be clear, my problem is with these features getting pushed as default enabled.
I like Cory Doctorow. I think his theory of enshittification is useful, but I find his definition flawed.
Why is it limited to platforms? Can’t enshittification apply to other things like applications?
Are business customers really required or can that step be skipped?
The platforms dying thing isn’t what we are seeing. For example, Amazon is absolutely enshittified. They’re not dead. More like undead, continuing to shamble on consuming everything.
I still give credit to Cory for being an acute observer and coming up with a useful theory.
They’re sacrificing the utility of the tool to make it part of their new AI-driven operating system as a service platform. The only thing notepad had going for it was its complete simplicity, reliability, and speed. Nobody wants notepad to try to rope you into this ecosystem, certainly not at the expense of those qualities.
Even with the recent updates, I’m over it. Notepad has crashed on me at least twice. Notepad. Crashed. There is no longer any reason to use it.
They’re sacrificing the utility of the tool to make it part of their new AI-driven operating system as a service platform.
You don't know that. You have no idea how this "cowriter" will be integrated. It could be just a little button off on the side, maybe with a setting in the configuration to hide it entirely, and you can ignore it completely.
God, I should’ve seen you take this out and followed suit. Instead I engaged, and now unbeknownst to me I’m afraid of AI and putting words in people’s mouths, gotta love internet discourse
Any additional functionality added to an already feature-complete program is bloat, no two ways about it. If notepad+AI was a separate program, this would be a different discussion. Even if you can hide it completely, the fact that it’s there at all will affect performance. And even if it’s just a tiny blip in relative performance, it’s still the first step on the road to enshittification.
I think you may be overestimating how much code is required for a program to simply use an AI, as in just calling an AI's API with a string of text and getting some text back in return. I've written code that does this and it's just a few lines.
The code for whatever UI Notepad wraps around it might be a few hundred more lines, that depends very much on the UI framework and what they want it to look like. But the AI part is trivial. The hard work of actually executing the AI's code is done on a remote server. Your home computer won't have to do any of that work.
You’re free to believe that this will not bog down the program at all, and also that this isn’t just the first bad decision they’re making with notepad. I really would like to impress upon you that that is wishful thinking, and not at all the most likely outcome here.
And I think that 90% of the concern people have is arising out of some kind of weird anti-AI hysteria.
Look, even if Microsoft does "ruin" Notepad somehow, it's a really simple program. Github has a bunch of projects tagged "notepad-clone", I'm sure there are plenty of free alternatives out there that duplicate the old Notepad as precisely as you may desire. Adding AI is extremely simple on the client side but it's not so easy to provide the LLM back-end so those replicas probably won't be able to do what Microsoft is about to do, so I want to see Microsoft try it. I think it'll be good.
I couldn’t care less that the addition in question is AI related, it’s unnecessary bloat that no one asked for! I hate bloat, that’s my thing. I didn’t like when the start menu was ruined, I didn’t like when user accounts were eschewed for microsoft accounts, and I don’t like this.
I’m completely off windows now anyways, so I don’t even have skin in the game. It just boggles my mind that anyone would defend this whacky decision. Streamlined bloat is still bloat.
Why not just clone notepad and then start adding garbage? They already announced the intention to remove word pad, just replace that with whatever this ends up being!
I wish people would stop putting words in my mouth. I would be quite happy to try this feature out, and I think it could be quite handy indeed. I literally said "I want to see Microsoft try it" in the comment you're responding to.
I’m completely off windows now anyways, so I don’t even have skin in the game.
So what's your problem? Don't insist that everyone has to share your values and run their computers the way you would want to run them.
I just linked to a whole pile of notepad clone projects. I'm sure some of them will satisfy whatever preferences any particular person has. "Why not just clone notepad" applies just as much to the people complaining about this features, and it's already been done. If you want to stick with the unchanging bare minimum text editor, there they are.
You’re acting like I’m crazy for taking issue with this, I’m just explaining my perspective. You’re free to enjoy whatever gizmos and gadgets microsoft bundles into the next windows release, just as much as I’m free to say it’s a piss-poor decision on their part to do so.
It shouldn’t be the user’s responsibility to seek out replacement programs for shit that has been baked into the OS since 1983. I genuinely haven’t seen a single person ANYWHERE EVER say “boy howdy I sure do wish notepad had more features, maybe an AI cowriter!”. If that’s something you really actually wanted before you heard about this, then I’m sorry for putting words in your mouth.
As it stands though, you’re just dying on a stupid hill for semantics.
No, I'm annoyed that you're assuming that your view of this matter is the only one, and are insisting that Notepad should exclude any features that you don't want even though it likely wouldn't harm you if they were included.
I'm perfectly fine with people not using AI. I'm not perfectly fine with people jumping in and telling me "and you don't get to use it either!"
The fact that Notepad is really old shouldn't be an argument that it should never change.
I genuinely haven’t seen a single person ANYWHERE EVER say “boy howdy I sure do wish notepad had more features, maybe an AI cowriter!”.
I'm saying it right now. I've said it repeatedly in the course of this thread, in comments that you are posting direct responses to. I explicitly said in the previous comment, and the comment before it, that I wanted this. How are you not understanding this?
If that’s something you really actually wanted before you heard about this,
Ah, I see where you're trying to weasel out a technical "I was right all along" - you're going to say that because I hadn't specifically said "in Notepad" about this before seeing that Windows was planning on adding this to Notepad, my interest in this new feature is somehow invalid and my previous comments are lies or something. Not "genuine." You'll imagine that I hadn't thought about how nice it would be to have an AI cowriter in some kind of text editor before now, and that even now I'm... I don't know, why do you think I'm arguing that this would be beneficial if I don't actually want to use it? I can't think of why you might imagine I'm arguing this, maybe I'm some kind of shill for Big AI?
And then you accuse me of "dying on a stupid hill for semantics."
“asking for something” and “seeing something and deciding you like it” are two different things, but go on and type another 3 paragraphs about how I’m weaseling.
What about privacy and bloat? Do you really need an integrated big-brother Clippy again? There’s a reason they got rid of that annoying little bugger 20-ish years ago. Even killed Cortana. How many failed experiments more do we need?
If you need AI writing, you have it in Edge or on the ChatGPT site. Will they add AI to settings to help you turn on all the bloat and tracking for you?
Like just give me my damn control panel which has a working search feature (unlike, say, Settings)
Fun fact: Most of the features that people liked about the “new” Windows notepad were just stolen from Notepad++ anyway.
So you may as well just use Notepad++ and enjoy a better experience, plus about a zillion other things like numerous plugins, syntax highlighting for just about every programming language under the sun, immensely configurable color schemes, etc., etc., etc.
More likely they are direct ports of things from the highly popular Visual Studio Code as a lot of people used to bound out RAW HTML and other code in notepad for YEARS before Notepad++ was a thing.
No I am saying people where coding html in plan old notepad way before notepad +
And separately with MS having popularity with VS code they likely ported the dev functions to ms notepad there is a good chance notepad++ was not the inspiration.
A lot of those features were in visual studio 6, which was released in the late 90s or early 00s. Tabbed files, syntax highlighting for their supported formats (though it was a lot more tightly bound to those languages, like there was a visual basic program and a separate visual c/c++, n++ is the first I remember with arbitrary language syntax highlighting support), pretty sure it had a plugin system, too.
And vs6 was just the first one I used, they might have been present in vs5 or earlier versions.
We didn’t have color terminals at my college so if there was any highlighting I wouldn’t have seen it. Probably shortly after the first dumb terminals came with color text somebody made emacs or vi do highlighting? Screen splitting goes way back. Emacs had that in the late 80s when I was using it.
Visual studio and visual studio code are not the same thing. Visual Studio is a full IDE and is expected to have those features and is clunky because of them. Or was, not sure where it is now. It’d be in the same category as netbeans, eclipsed, and intellij
Vs code is an enhanced lightweight text editor
Notepad++ is the original enhanced lightweight text editor
My point was that Notepad++ came out way before vs code and didn’t copy features from vs code.
Copied from an ide, sure? Not really a good comparison as they are solving two different problems
They were features of the text editor that was a part of the integrated development environment. My point was that even though vs code came after n++, those features were a part of the visual studio line, which vs code is a successor of, so if there was inspiration it was more likely in the direction of vs -> n++, though realistically there was probably transfer in both directions over time.
Then those features in VS Code were most likely heavily inspired by Notepad++ as well. Notepad++ was publicly released in 2003, which in computing terms may as well be the neolithic era.
TL;DR: There’s no reason to stick with a shitty Microsoft application for this task since N++ exists and is, was, and probably forever will be superior.
And even if Notepad++ had invented it, it's not "stealing" to do the same thing. Notepad++ still has its tabs, nobody stole them. Copied them, maybe. Inspired by them, perhaps. "Stolen" is just a deliberately emotion-baiting term.
God damn. Fuck these guys. My bread and butter has been programming in the Microsoft ecosystem for 15 years. Now I’m running Linux on two different PCs and working on learning non-MS development stacks.
I want my notepad to open in split second so I can jot down my thoughts when I’m in a rush so I don’t forget things. or so I can copy multiple things, edit them slightly and paste them where I want them to be. or so I can pre-write a paragraph to send shortly without appearing as “this user is typing” to everyone as I rewrite a sentence for the 5th time, and to not fear accidentally hitting enter mid said paragraph.
I do not need my notepad to have AI. It’s not broken, stop trying to fix things that aren’t broken
seriously though. I can’t imagine anything I’d rather have be more basic than notepad. It’s entire literal existence is to open, edit and save basic text files. There’s zero need for additional features or updates.
I mean, I don’t even see their precious AI in office yet, and they’re getting hard over adding it to fucking notepad? I expected an AI powered clippy to return to office before this shit.
Its not that people have missed the joke, it’s that the joke is poorly formed and not hyperbolic enough to be funny, instead it’s rather a half joke and brings up a larger issue (intentional or not), that undermines the attempt at absurdist humor.
A modern Neovim configuration with full battery for Python, Lua, C++, Markdown, LaTeX, and more…
This is enough to get the intellisense and linters up and running. Only takes ~5 minutes to configure by installing prerequisites, it’s worth it though.
I liked the tab support being added and use notepad for a bunch of basic bitch shiz, but notepad++ is going full time if they start bogging it down with crap.
Funny enough, I use it like a notepad. Oh s***, I need to write this down real quick. I need to grab an exerpt off a website, our store serial number or make a quick list. It’s literally scrap paper in digital form for me.
Just because it’s portable doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s allowed on the organizations allow list, but it does seem highly unlikely that the organization doesn’t have any alternative text editors allowed.
But maybe they don’t edit text files often enough to bother. And honestly, notepad was recently updated with tabs which makes it a lot more usable that it used to be.
I used to use it for taking quick notes when I had a slow computer. I didn’t want to wait for Word to load, so I’d just use Notepad. Now I use Post Its or just don’t write stuff down as much.
I use it all the time for quick notes at work, with its very simple interface, and the tabs feature was a game changer. Especially useful for phone calls in my case, although my typing speed far exceeds my writing speed so maybe I’m the exception because of that.
I don’t use it to program though, usually that’s delegated to Visual Studio.
I use it as a cache for chunks of text I want to move around. I use Textpad a lot for code and config files where I don’t need all the lookup and predictive stuff.
I prefer having a bare-bones text editor over anything with formatting. Most of the time, I don’t want the formatting to carry over, I want it stripped down to just the content, just the text. Word can get annoying sometimes when you’re trying to copy and paste and it does something stupid like carrying over weird frames or tables or whatever the hell. That said, I’ll still use a “fancy” text editor like Notepad++ or Sublime Text.
Not seeing anyone recommend Sublime Text here. It’s free for non commercial use and is fucking kickass and doesn’t look like it came out of the 80’s like NP++
Personally I could never use a text editor that is free and not open source (Aside from built-in editors). For simpler stuff like config files etc I use Kate which looks nice, has syntax highlighting and is cross platform. For more complicated stuff I like VSCodium. Both are well maintained, and work great.
The more I look at modern UIs, which seem to have decided the best way to use the metric crapload of screen space a modern PC has is with gratuitious whitespace, the more I like 1990s UIs.
Sure, totally get you there, but part of what I like about Sublime is that the interface is clean, no buttons everywhere, nothing obtrusive, its just a text editor that packs a punch and has a lot of community built plug-ins to do whatever you may need.
Been a Windows user for a really long time. A few times I tried to switch over to Linux, but it just wasn’t doable for a myriad of reasons. Windows 11, I have words with it. Many bad ones, but thankfully there are many users like me that for one reason or another did not switch and put time in to beat the badness out of it via mods.
Windows 12… I’m not so sure if I’ll even “upgrade” to it. It really depends on how much Microsoft decides to wire up the OS to their servers. Look, I wouldn’t mind at all if I could have “smart” tools with AI assistance, but the problem for me is the lack of choice. Currently, if you don’t use their crap software, what mostly travels over the wire is telemetry, and if you go offline no harm done. But make no mistake, useful AI models are too fat to run on most computers. Heck I built mine with AI in mind, but will Microsoft even give me the choice of using my own AIs? (Here’s a hint, it starts with N, has a V and ends with an R)
But what if the OS starts requiring it to be online only because of their AI features? Maybe we’ll have to start paying for Windows again in subscriptions to pay for the obligatory AI? Or what about scrubbing options away from the settings so you can’t “misuse” your own device and have to ask nicely to their AI to do it for you?
There is a road here, and I do not like it. Thank goodness Linux is better than it has ever been.
PS: As for the notepad thing, I’m completely in agreement that it should remain without AI. Such a simple tool for scribbling down notes should be kept lean, simple and fast. Things that Microsoft and their engineers have long forgotten how to do.
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