Open hatred of Jews surges globally, inflamed by Gaza war

  • Global surge in antisemitic incidents following the conflict between Hamas and Israel, affecting Jewish communities in various countries.
  • Antisemitic acts range from verbal abuse to physical assaults, often justified by anger over the Gaza conflict.
  • In areas like the U.S., Britain, France, Germany, and South Africa, antisemitic incidents have increased several hundred percent compared to the same period last year.
  • Official responses vary, with Western authorities generally quick to support Jewish communities, while some countries like China have not taken steps to curtail antisemitic content online.

Media Bias Fact Check (Reuters):

Overall, we rate Reuters Least Biased based on objective reporting and Very High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information with minimal bias and a clean fact check record.

Donjuanme,

Criticalness of Israel is not hatred of Jews. Any attack on someone based on their nationality should be a hate crime (including illegal immigrants at the USA Southern border). Walking past a protest and being offended by their message isn’t being attacked. Israel is way over the line and has historically been looking for reasons to absorb the Gaza strip into their control.

DanL4,

Israel voluntarily got out of Gaza, it would be suicide to go back, both temporarily (as is done now) and of course permanently.

The amount of money spilled from all over the world into Gaza could have made it a beautiful paradise, or a second Tel Aviv.

People there are refugees because hamas is happy with them being refugees.

Israels government are a bunch of criminals, but not for anything to do with Gaza. It’s an impossible conflict in which the only winners are the extremists on both sides who use it to show the world how there is no other way than force. Hamas justifies hiding under hospitals by saying that’s the only way to defend themselves, the corrupt, incompetent, extremist, Israeli government now want to blame the 2006 government for leaving Gaza and by that bringing this assault upon them.

filister,

Oh yes, the paradise open air prison created by Israel, which they now try to “re-build” to create a moon-style amusement park.

And while I don’t hate Jews or any other race, I find it strange that no one here is talking about the elephant in the room. That the recent surge in hate crime is directly linked with the war in Gaza, and that people are tired of seeing Israel’s government overstepping their limits once again and trying to level up the whole of Gaza by carpet bombing it, without any consideration of human life.

Have you ever thought that if Israel has found a peaceful solution of the Gaza/Hamas problem there would be a hate crime surge?

And what about the hate crime against the Palestinians in the West Bank, which is documented, unprovoked and happening with the silent endorsement of the IDF? I am sorry but I find it a bit cynical to say the least.

theguardian.com/…/west-bank-palestinian-villages-…

CherenkovBlue,
@CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Jewish people worldwide are not responsible for the behavior of the Israeli government. Targeting random Jewish people in other countries for the actions of the IDF is antisemitism.

filister,

I have never said that, but targeting random Palestinians who don’t have anything to do with the events from the 7th of October also is not okay but I don’t see you condemning them?

My point only is that I am showing you how people from different parts of the world aren’t so different after all. They are all irrationally generalising people and holding them accountable for the wrongdoings of other people from the same ethnicity.

And my point is this surge of hatred is fuelled by a war offensive which a lot of people find too extreme and disproportionate in its nature bordering ethnic cleansing.

So I don’t think you, me or anyone in the world could change the human prejudices and their irrational tendencies of generalising people so the only other solution of the problem is the Israelian government to start treating its minorities respectfully, but I don’t see this happening either.

CherenkovBlue,
@CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

This article isn’t about Israel or Israelis or the war is Israel. This article is about Jews in other parts of the world being attacked for being Jewish. Damn, people just can’t talk about Jews without derailing the conversation.

filister,

Damn people don’t know that 2 + 2 = 4

assassin_aragorn,

You just did the opposite, and took hatred of Jews and equated it with criticalness of Israel and Israel’s war crimes.

CherenkovBlue,
@CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Did you read the article? First paragraph: " In Los Angeles, a man screaming “kill Jews” attempts to break into a family’s home. In London, girls in a playground are told they are “stinking Jews” and should stay off the slide. In China, posts likening Jews to parasites, vampires or snakes proliferate on social media, attracting thousands of “likes”. "

This is not Jewish people being offended about anti-Israeli protests. This is Jewish people being the targets of blatant, direct antisemitism because they simply exist as Jews.

Wakmrow,

They cite the airport in Russia. Those people were explicitly carrying Palestinian flags and targeting the fleeing colonists, people who actively were on the side of the regime in Israel.

I’d like to see the posts. And in fairness I’ve seen a lot of Nazi shit pop up on posts so anecdotally I believe anti semitism is increasing.

However, I despise the Israeli government and I’ve been called all sorts of shit for it. So I’m sceptical.

blazeknave,

I just read: because people have confronted my disdain for Israel, I don’t believe Jews in other places are experiencing hate crimes.

Is that statement accurate?

Wakmrow,

No, that is not correct. I genuinely believe there is an increase in anti semitism. I have seen it myself.

I am also disgusted at how irresponsibly people have been using that term. Representatives of the Israeli government get on cable news networks and any criticism of the genocide is met with claims of anti semitism. There are many people who are Nazis, not just garden variety fascists, but actually want to murder all Jewish people. Diminishing the weight and meaning of the term is encouraging these shits and it’s going to be a real problem.

I want to elaborate on the Russian airport. Those Jewish people left that community to join the apartheid in Palestine, willingly. They participated in it, willingly. Given compulsory military service, some on that plane took part in the violence (Don’t look into how many sexual abusers use birthright citizenship to evade justice or how they might be evading conscription into the Russian military). They were wealthy enough to get on an airplane and leave as their country began a violent oppression using the military. There are many reasons to be angry and violent towards the settlers that are not the fact that they are Jewish. People can be angry with them just based on the actions they have taken. Mossad very famously tracked and murked perpetrators of the genocide when they fled justice, were those anti-German hate crimes? Also, the footage I saw was people wanting to confront the people on the plane and the police fucking them up, is that a hate crime?

I get that’s a spicy take for many people. There has been, for decades, bleating from the Israeli government about anti semitism. And they feed that through “reputable news sources” like Reuters. As for why I don’t trust them, see Shireen Abu Akleh’s murder and the reporting that followed.

I know what narrative they want. So I want evidence when they make these claims.

blazeknave,

I hear you. Not controversial at all and I pretty much agree where I’m informed. I think this is my issue… there are a million posts about Palestinian genocide where your comments are well suited. This is the rare post about civilians on the other side, millions that aren’t even in the region. That makes this the inappropriate place for your arguments. If you’re not sharing the sentiment on this post to diminish the point of the article, why are you sharing here? FYI for edification, that’s a dog whistle. It may not be your intent, but by pulling the convo away from the victims, there’s inherent implication that the victims don’t matter.

Wakmrow,

That’s entirely fair.

But I disagree that this isn’t the appropriate post for this discussion. A few weeks ago there was a Jewish synagogue leader murdered which made national news (Samantha Woll). She sounds like she was a beautiful soul and her death is a tragedy. Apparently, it was not a hate crime but standard levels of violence in American society.

I know why the story was national news. It serves a narrative. That narrative is dangerous. I think that narrative is going to lead us to a very dark place. I think this article is part of that narrative.

Donjuanme,

I did not read the article, nor do I have time, temperament, brain space, or blood pressure to read a percentage point of the articles that have come out about this war, or the other fucking war, or probably ww3 when it begins. My statements were a generality that I felt comfortable expressing in an aggregating website, I may have chosen the incorrect thread to put them out into, but this is where they were dumped to. Apologies for being overwhelmed at the amount of propaganda being pushed from all sides. I would ask you to allow me to exist in my gray middle area of “everyone should chill the fuck down”. Glory to Ukraine, peace in the middle east.

Ilovethebomb,

I did not read the article,

Off you fuck then.

sigh,
@sigh@lemmy.world avatar

I did not read the article

you could have just stopped there

MadBob,

Prime moment to say nothing at all, honestly!

blazeknave,

So you acknowledge that hate crimes and antisemitism are on the rise by hundreds of percent per the article?

AllonzeeLV, (edited )

This is yet another reason why why ANY theocracy, of any denomination, is incompatible with modernity.

Not only does it limit the citizenry’s representation in terms of beliefs and cultural shifts incompatible with the faith within, it creates a common enemy for idiotic, ancient deity dick measuring squabbles from the outside.

I respect a person’s right to pray to whatever pokemon they want. Charizard, Yahweh, Mr. Mime, Allah, whoever speaks to your soul or whatever. I don’t respect any person’s right to use the pokemon they pray to as a rational to limit the rights of anyone else for any reason, ok you super serious Pokemon Masters?

Israel isn’t some great line of defense for the Jews, it’s a massive, singular target for the other idiot theocracies in the region that they hate and hate them back to attack, great choice of location by the way if you wanted to feel safe.

Israel is basically the geopolitical equivalent of what John McClain was coerced to do in Harlem in Die Hard 3, only for Israel it was a choice.

ParsnipWitch,

With this line of thinking you could also say it’s the Palestinians choice to be there. Why don’t just make Palestine somewhere else?

tygerprints,

This is despicable in every way. Not surprising, but despicable. There's absolutely no rationale for being anti-semitic in any way shape or form. NONE. I've even asked on every forum, what the hell is behind anti-semitism, and why do people wallow in such muck? And I never get any good answer. Because there is none that doesn't reveal the inane childish bigotry of the responder. There is no more corrupt evil than the sick hatred of other human beings for any reason. That is as low, perverse, and filthy as humans can possibly get.

sizzler,

And yet you troll and disrespect other peoples beliefs. So what does that make you?

bingbong,

crickets

sizzler,

Silence is golden.

Kolrami,

Are you talking about some other comment he made? When was he trolling and disrespecting beliefs?

sizzler,

Other comments

tygerprints,

A nazi is a nazi. If we on the left are calling it out, it's because we have the intelligence to see shit for what it is.

Ghost33313,
Ghost33313 avatar

The scary part is I've seen a schism in the left on this. There have been times where people proclaiming rights for Gaza in the same breath compare Jews to Nazis even though the problem is with the state not the people. Everyone on the left agrees it's a human rights issue for both sides but unfortunately some are picking sides.

Meanwhile the Jewish people are backed into a corner so things are going to get irrational from them as well. Although I am not Jewish myself I am very close to many and all of them are anxious wrecks over this. Every other faith has multiple nations which have their religion as a state religion but Jews have only one choice if that's what they want. The ideal situation would have been surgical strikes against Hamas but Netanyahu gonna Netanyahoo.

sadreality,

I didn't realize people needed their state to have official religion to shill for it.

TheBananaKing,

Any time people call out the state, the state declares it to be aimed at the people.

tygerprints,

Well to me, a Nazi is anyone who hurts someone else in any way to make them conform to their own limited beliefs. I guess in a way we're all guilty of that. To me, humans everywhere have the God-given right to enjoy lives free of persecution and hatred, but that's not the reality that we live in.

I think both Muslims and Jews feel "backed into a corner" and one reason the war is raging is because, we're very immature people (us humans). No one's willing to admit they feel scared, and feel hope, and want this over with, and maybe the whole war thing is a big mistake. But to me, war always is the worst solution to any problem. (and it never brings a solution, only destruction and death).

febra,

Antisemitism sucks. So does relentless zionism. Stop accusing all jewish people of being militaristic zionists. Stop comparing Israel to jews. Israel doesn’t represent all jews. Saudi Arabia doesn’t represent all muslims. Russia doesn’t represent all orthodox christians. Being anti Israel doesn’t make you antisemitic. Being antisemitic doesn’t make you anti Israel. Don’t confuse the two. One can cherish jewish people, culture, history and be anti Israel to whatever extent. I’m partly jewish and don’t support Israel for example.

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Stop accusing all jewish people of being militaristic zionists.

The UK has been openly hostile towards its Jewish residents for centuries. Some of its highest ranking political leaders are openly anti-semitic. Much of the Zionism of the 19th century was a direct consequence of British state and popular leaders villainizing Jewish residents and businesses in the exact same manner as the Germans did a decade or two later.

Meanwhile, state media wants to tie all Jewish people to the Israeli cause, even going so far as to accuse anti-Israeli jewish people and groups as being anti-semitic themselves and hounding any kind of Palestinian peace activists for being “terrorist sympathizers” by default.

So its sort of a rock-and-hard-place for UK Jews (particularly Hasidic Jews, who categorically reject Zionism) who have had to deal with this kind of state-sanctioned harassment and violence their entire lives, to disassociate from Zionism. Both the anti-Semitic bigots and the pro-Israeli flaks seem intent on tying you to the mast-head of this sinking ship.

Saudi Arabia doesn’t represent all muslims. Russia doesn’t represent all orthodox christians.

That’s been another kind-of annoying habit of mass media. Every Muslim from Minnesota to Mecca gets treated like the most radical orthodox Wahhabist. We’ve got US Senators and British PMs alike waxing poetic about “Radical Islamic Extremism” and demanding every practitioner of the faith make formal public apologizes for whatever nonsense MBS or Ayatollah Khomeini is on about this week.

Similarly, god forbid you know a bit of Cyrillic. People lose their fucking minds over the Russia-Ukraine shit if you’re not on the “right” side (which, at least in American politics, varies entirely based on your domestic ideological leaning).

One can cherish jewish people, culture, history and be anti Israel to whatever extent.

Not according to the western press. You need to pick a fucking side. And then it becomes a competition to be the most rabid and deranged in your support of that side. Otherwise, you’re no better than a traitor.

WuTang,

You know what. I don’t care, right now.
This is just indecent, they want to play on both part. being the hangman and the victims.

“yeah but not all jews are…” Yes indeed, of course but there is not place to complain about 2 raw tags on a wall or a swearword hidden in the crowd. They risks nothing! This is pure indecency to cry about antisemitism right now.

Mrkawfee,

Yeah it’s fucked. Israel is killing kids and then someone draws a star of David and the Zionists point and go “Aha” we told you so.

LwL,

The jews living in random countries all over the world have nothing to do with Israels actions and attacking them over it is fucking dumb and nothing other than racism.

I’ve seen all sorts of things called antisemitic recently so I won’t make a judgement on whether hatecrimes against jews actually went up, but it wouldn’t be surprising. People always look for the nearest scapegoat and attack them to deal with their anger.

WuTang,

The jews living in random countries don’t risk anything. They might if, in the current situation, they offer, even 1/10th support to Israel during demonstration because they would be clearly pissing on human rights and are fucking egocentrics! By decency, jews should not even talk about antisemitic acts (fucking joking tag on a wall)* but if they want to report it, points the cause of it: israel’s actions!

anyway, hopefully, special treatment will end for them and they will have the same rights and DUTIES than us, poor non-elected by god.

*Should I remind you the story of the landlord killing arab kid in US, 2 weeks ago?

erranto,

Way to easy to paint any criticism about Israel as hatred towards Jews. Lobby groups with big money define the limits of the discourse.

CherenkovBlue,
@CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

This article is about Jews who aren’t Israeli. Stop derailing the conversation.

erranto,

It is also about conflating legitimate antisemitic hatred with anti-Zionist sentiments. look at how EU countries are banning Pro Palestine Protest under the pretext that those protesting are systematically anti-Jews. look at how UK’s Suella Braveman is trying to quash any criticism of Israel actions under the banner of antisemitism and is working on passing lopsided authoritarian laws to imprison any critics of Israel’s genocidal records.

Lols,

can you point out where the article is about the things youre saying its about

saying “anti-Semitism is on the rise” is not equal to saying “anti zionism is anti-semitism”, and recognising that anti-semitism is on the rise says nothing about someones stance on israel, palestine or the genocide going on there

Cethin,

Yes, but we’re the comments made while they were protesting with regard to these events? We’re they actually anti-semitic, or anti-zionist or anti-Israeli? Those are all different things. Israel would say anyone who expresses the latter two opinions is the former, but that just isn’t the case.

ILikeBoobies,

Literally saw a comment here the other day saying that Jews think it’s their turn to commit genocide because of the holocaust

assassin_aragorn,

You just painted any hatred towards Jews as criticism of Israel and blamed rich lobbyists.

Let’s not make the same mistake, but in reverse.

Jumi,

Antisemitism was never gone but just hidden away.

kandoh,

It seems pretty clear a large percentage of the human race associates the actions of any members within an ethnic group as an action by the entire ethnic group. Not 100% culpable, but maybe 60% to 30% depending on age and gender.

aidan,

This is why everyone should stop identifying as a part of a community, and instead identify as an individual

MartianFox,

But that doesn’t solve the problem of others identifying you as part of a community and blaming you for it

aidan,

It stops you from spreading the culture of that yourself though

ParsnipWitch,

It also seems that some people embrace violent solutions and feel every other reaction to a problem is not extreme enough.

Iceblade02,

Yeah, people don’t seem to realize that culture in Western countries generally is less racist than the global norm (and there is quite a bit of prejudice in Western countries!)

kandoh,

It’s the difference of coming from large multi-ethnic empires. Racism is a serious threat to social cohesion and the functioning of the state.

CherenkovBlue,
@CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

What the fuck is with these comments.

Jewish people outside of Israel (citizens of other countries) are not equal to the Israeli government. They have no say and no control over what the Israeli government does. They are not connected.

Jewish 20 year olds going to college in the USA do not deserve to be attacked for simply…being Jewish (see Tulane University events). And so on.

Attacking Jewish people worldwide for the actions of the Israeli government is pure antisemitism, plain and simple, and needs to be called out and condemned.

slaacaa,

A lot of people just seem to hate jews, and now the masks have come off (again).

Yawnder,

I think a small minority within the Jewish community is very disliked. While most are as lovely (or annoying) as anyone else, some do like to hold-on to the “I’m part of the most persecuted group in the history of the universe” rhetoric.

cricket97,

gods chosen people is how they refer to themselves

Yawnder,

Yeah, but that’s every religion.

cricket97,

No, “Chosen people” as a concept is unique to Judaism. You can read about it here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people

Yawnder,

That specific link also mentions how it’s not just for Judaism.

cricket97,

Yeah but it is quite integral to Judaism and is what the term “Chosen people” is typically referring to. Here is more in depth info en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_the_chosen_people

It’s a very common thing said amongst jews. While some other religions may have similar concepts, it is quite integral to Judaism to a degree that it isn’t in other religions.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

Why though? Why is anti-Semitism even a thing?

magikarpet,

Religion, plus they were an easy minority to scapegoat historically.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

What’s the religious reason people hate them?

OKRainbowKid,

They believe in a different version of the magic sky daddy.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

But theirs was the original. All of the Abrahamic religions are their religion.

magikarpet, (edited )

It is varied and complicated throughout history-

  1. Pre-Christian anti-Judaism in Ancient Greece and Rome which was primarily ethnic in nature
  2. Christian antisemitism in antiquity and the Middle Ages which was religious in nature and has extended into modern times
  3. Muslim antisemitism which was—at least in its classical form—nuanced, in that Jews were a protected class
  4. Political, social and economic antisemitism during the Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment Europe which laid the groundwork for racial antisemitism
  5. Racial antisemitism that arose in the 19th century and culminated in Nazism
  6. Contemporary antisemitism which has been labeled by some as the new antisemitism

Christians have some historical antisemitism because the Jews are blamed for crucifying Jesus.

Muslims i have less knowledge, but i know in modern times they hate the founding of Israel among other reasons pertaining to “conflicting sky daddy”

Also for some other context, many practicing Jews kept traditions that made them stand out in the past. Leading to negative (and often false) stereotypes.

Lastly, it doesn’t help that they proclaim themselves God’s chosen people in the eyes of outsiders.

Edit: corrected mistake

NuXCOM_90Percent, (edited )

With respect to the Christian and Muslim antisemitism:

Christianity largely made up the crucifixion… In many capacities. But, if we take the story at face value, it would be the Romans who did it because… the Romans crucified a LOT of people.

Much of the hatred from Christianity is rooted in Judaism not banning money lending. So combine that with a lot of Christians excluding them from other professions and you had a LOT of Jewish bankers (which continues to this day with the idea that “Jews are good with money” and “Jews are great lawyers” and so forth).

But when the time came to need some extra cash to fund a Crusade or just pay for some more jewels? Suddenly the Christians (and Catholics) had a really nice and really juicy target that they could attack and rob (which is also where a lot of the Nazi targeting of Jews came from).

As for Islam? A lot of the above coupled with the Jewish people not having multiple Crusades/Jihads worth of soldiers to back up their claims to territories… so lesson learned on that front I guess.

But “the Jews were responsible for crucifying Jesus” is a complete load of nonsense. And is a long standing source of dog whistles and antisemitic hate.

magikarpet,

Nice info. I couldn’t remember the details about the connection with money lending and banking, but I was trying to refer to it with the stereotypes and standing out.

Also, you are right and i edited my comment about Jews being responsible for crucifying Jesus because it is something i was taught and i know people believe it, but I am not trying to spread that information as fact.

Iceblade02,

Jews are one of the least religious ethnic groups worldwide (something like 75% are agnostic or atheist iirc) though

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

“Your people killed Jesus.”

pinkdrunkenelephants,

But wasn’t it the Romans who did that?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, but it’s been a long-standing precedent to blame the Jews anyway.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

Why though? Why perpetuate such an obvious lie?

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t have the answer to that one. Maybe the same reason that lies like ‘Asian men have small penises’ and ‘all black people are good dancers’ perpetuate. It sounds good to a bigot and they just assume it’s true.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

That tells me there’s some other undelying reason for the bigotry.

I’ve felt this for a long time, but the more I watch politics play out, the more justified I feel it is: I think bigotry is a kind of mental illness, a severe one, and it might be connected with other conditions that case paranoia and manic episodes like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

It’s the only way it makes any sense.

Dkarma,

If u believe the Bible it’s not a lie. The Jews could have saved Jesus. They chose barrabus instead iirc.

AstridWipenaugh,

Because Judaism is simultaneously an ethnicity, a race, and a culture, and a religion, they have avoided assimilation into the larger cultures in the places they have lived. This causes resentment between the cultures. Look at how so many people view immigrants today. Now stretch that attitude out over 2000 years. With Jews always being in the minority, they become an easy target for hatred and scapegoating. They’re very obviously culturally different from other people where they live, by choice, so they’re an easy target for that kind of xenophobic propaganda.

Some of the negative associations were earned, like the “Jews and money” stereotypes. That comes from a long time ago when all abrahamic religions followed the moral code that charging interest on loaned money was immoral. The Jews believed this too, but because they are God’s chosen people and everyone else is not, they decided there was no moral problem with charging non-Jews interest. They would give out loans a lot more aggressively because there was a profit motive and risky loans could still be profitable. They became associated with money because they proliferated as bankers due to what was considered at the time to be unscrupulous banking.

None of that background justifies any modern antisemitism; hate is always wrong. Just answering where some of it came from historically.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

What would it take to resolve the issue and make it stop, do you think?

AstridWipenaugh,

If people could stop being xenophobic assholes, the world would be a better place. We’ve been unable to accomplish that at scale since humans have existed though, so I’ve got nothing. All I can do is to try and be a good person myself.

SmoothIsFast,

Realistically until we can move past religions its not going to stop. When you create constant in groups and out groups you are going to have conflict and blame wars. Until we can view each other as equals and for that to happen either everyone has to be under the same religion or we accept religions were a terrible form of government that need to be abandoned. And then we might just see rampant racism at that point if education is not properly funded and supported following the fall of religions. Then it would be nationalism until we can globally unite, and then still we will run into small groups of uneducated people who will be easily swayed allowing these bullshit issues to propagate again but hopefully not at the same level. Not that it’s reassuring but we have massive issues that need to be addressed for this shit to end and as billionaires profit from uneducated laborers, until we get to post scarcity for our species I don’t know if it will end.

broface,

What the fuck is with these comments.

What comments? Are you trying to manufacture outrage again?

canthidium,
@canthidium@lemmy.world avatar

People just love to have a reason to hate. Just like when COVID started and Asians were getting attacked all over despite having zero connection to China.

0xD,

You’re conveniently ignoring though that Israel has over the last decades made themselves basically synonymous with Jews worldwide and have been quick to hide their atrocities behind the word “antisemitism”.

I’m not saying it’s okay, but it’s not far-fetched.

Rotten_potato,

Yes, but it’s only consistent to reject that false framing and clearly delineate between supporters and opponents of Israel. Everything else just serves Israel by mudding the water.

CherenkovBlue,
@CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Just because the Israeli government tells you this, you abandon critical thinking skills? I get that there may be a casual link here, but damn, people need to actually think.

Lols,

theyre not conveniently ignoring it, it just wasnt relevant to the comment

the israeli government absolutely carries massive responsibility for the conflation of jews and israelis, and that absolutely does not have any effect on the amount of responsibility jewish folks carry when it comes to the actions of israel

FanciestPants,

I feel like there needs to be more discussion of how people can be anti-Zionist without being antisemitic. There are elements of many faiths that people can object to without being considered antagonistic of that faith. People might not hate all people who are Jewish, but also might not be too enthusiastic about the Israeli State and all of its actions, which does not make them antisemitic.

barsoap,

There’s also lack of understanding that when saying “anti-Zionist” you’re calling for the non-existence of the state of Israel, not for Israel to not be an apartheid state. Rabin was a Labour Zionist: He would have liked to live in peace and social democracy with Palestinians. He was killed by a Religious Zionist, people who have a long history massacring Palestinians, the kind of people who prop up Netanyahu and settle the West Bank. On the flipside there’s plenty of anti-Zionist Jews around, for secular or religious reasons (“trying to force the third temple prophecy”). Broadly speaking “Zionist” simply means “patriot of Israel” and there’s also plenty of those out there helping Palestinians with their olive harvest so that settlers don’t come over and gun them down (because shooting Israelis, even leftists, would have consequences).

The Israeli right-wing of course doesn’t care, if a Jew says something they’d accuse others of antisemitism for they’re switching to “self-hating Jew”.

badbytes,

The world has been watching the genocide and settlers taking over for 50yrs. The world is tired of your shit Israel

hitmyspot,

Israel and Jews is not the same thing. There are many Jews in Israel. There are many more outside it.

Just as Hamas terrorist attack does not give Israel carte blanche to kill innocent people, Israel’s actions don’t give a reason to justify antisemitism.

Criticism of Israel is perfectly valid, but in commenting here, you’re equating the two, which is part of the problem.

badbytes,

Didn’t say the association if fair. I want peace everywhere. But humans as a whole are not smart.

slaacaa,

Yes, you’re a great example for that

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Hi. American Jew here. I do not support Israel. I have no allegiance with Israel. I don’t even have any interest in visiting Israel.

I’d like to not have to tell my daughter to hide her ethnicity because America is filled with antisemites. I was harassed for my ethnicity all through school because I couldn’t hide it (I look too stereotypically Jewish). She has a chance, but it’s disgusting that I have to tell her to hide it because “the world is tired of Israel’s shit” as if that had anything to do with either of us.

badbytes,

I here you loud and clear. We should love more.

JewGoblin,

I couldn’t imagine hating someone because they belong to a certain group, a lot of the Jew hate and Palestinian hate I see is just another example of humans being terrible to each other and the justification from both parties just keeps going in circles, both parties justifying violence in a never ending cycle

NoIWontPickaName,

Idk how much we can trust you not to be biased you fucking jew goblin

obinice,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t get why people hate that particular religion so much.

Me, I would do away with all religions, I think they’re all nonsense invented to control people or as a way to escape from reality, but that doesn’t mean I’d ever hate a religion or go to wild lengths to genocide it’s followers.

People who think there’s a magical man in the sky are a bit batty, but people who persecute others just for believing in magical sky men are truly off their rockers.

10_dollar_banana,

My experience is that the hate is for the ethnic group, not necessarily the religion.

SuddenDownpour,

To the people downvoting you: Do you think islamophobes distinguish between Arab Muslims or Arab Atheists when they provoke a scene? Or that antisemites distinguish between practicing Jews and non-believing Jews (who stay in the community for various reasons)?

ParsnipWitch,

Ethnicity and religion is intertwined in this case though, in a way that is quite unique. And which is probably significantly influenced by the way Jewish people were treated.

lolcatnip,

A lot of people who are ethnically Jewish and identify as Jews don’t practice or believe in Judaism.

Iceblade02,

Most, in fact, they’re one of the least religious ethnic groups globally (something like 75% are agnostic or atheist iirc)

FlyingSquid,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I come from Jewish parents. I’m an atheist, but I still consider myself Jewish.

My daughter is half-Jewish and I have advised her to tell no one in school because she will get treated differently, especially since this is Indiana.

One year in elementary school, one of her teachers assumed she was Jewish after meeting me (I look as stereotypically Jewish as Woody Allen) and singled her out for it multiple times. She thought she was singling her out for it in a good way, to teach the other kids something for example, but it just made my daughter feel embarrassed and othered.

broface,

A lot of it is an instinctual response.

Hearing ‘jews this, jews that’ since birth causes people to want to ‘fit in’ and go along with what everyone else is doing even if they don’t understand it.

I was surprised by how much anti-Semitism existed when I went to high school, because I never experienced it before outside of South Park. For everyone else, it was just normal and understood (even if they didn’t support it.) It really cemented the idea in my mind that most people do things without thinking just to fit in with others.

Maajmaaj, (edited )

This is what happens when you don’t kill ALL of the Nazis.

Edit: Jesus fuckin Christ, I’m talking about World War 2 Nazis.

Edit 2: Actually, fuck my original joke. Israel and the West are dick-riding fascism and genocide, Netanyahu and Biden won’t see whatever version of paradise they believe in after their hearts give out, and From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. I’m out. Mic drop

lol3droflxp,
lol3droflxp avatar

Antisemitism isn't and was never exclusive to Nazis

Zorque,

Yeah, but if we don't boil it down to the simplest and most violent response, how do we rile people up emotionally so they stop thinking and only impulsively react?

randon31415,

Lol, we are calling Israelis Nazis now? And I thought calling Zelenski a Nazi was ridiculous.

Maajmaaj, (edited )

Are you dumb? I’m talking about WW2.

Edit: Israel is commiting genocide and the West is enabling it. Free Palestine and RIP Betty White

Zorque,

Yeah, the anti-semitism didn't come from WW2 nazis.

There was plenty of anti-semitism outside of Germany at that time. Its one of the big tragedies, and part of the reason that Israel became the defacto "place for Jews". Because hardly anyone wanted Jewish refugees.

rafa,

USSR wasn’t perfect

OneLemmyMan,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    lmaydev,

    I mean hating Jews was pretty high up in the Nazi’s priorities.

    They are monsters but not sure Nazis makes sense.

    OneLemmyMan,

    I do not think Nazis means specifically them, nazis is just a word that describes nationalists extremists. But i might be wrong.

    lmaydev,

    No it’s not. We have words for them. It’s “nationalist extremists”

    It’s literally Nazis. Racist, fascist scum.

    OneLemmyMan,

    I did look it up and i stand corrected.

    Corkyskog,

    What about neo-nazis then?

    lmaydev,

    Still very much antisemitic.

    NuXCOM_90Percent,

    Still have that same “The Jews are responsible for all the evils of the world and must be eradicated” problem

    Believe it or not but not all fascists are nazis. And it is kind of helpful to understand the difference

    MxM111,
    MxM111 avatar

    The Arab citizens of Israel enjoy equal rights and have representation in the parliament. When you admit that “you are not too deep” into this, maybe you should first educate yourself before you start throwing accusations of nazism in Israel? Start with Wikipedia, read the history.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    Well they sure are trying to concentrate lots of people into sections of the city they can feel free to camp in.

    They at least kill their innocents with missiles instead of Zykon

    AllonzeeLV,

    ffrf.org/…/42071-israel-s-theocratic-government-i…

    Secular equal representation and theocracy are incompatible. There should be no religious states in modernity, of any denomination. Worship how you like in a nation where a a Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, Christian, atheist, Satanist, and Child of Thanos all get an equal vote in the nation they live in.

    If your god says it’s cool to kill real people in their name, your god is a malevolent imaginary friend.

    ChairmanMeow,
    @ChairmanMeow@programming.dev avatar

    They do not have equal rights, that is just objectively false. Here’s an example: reuters.com/…/israels-knesset-passes-law-barring-…

    The Knesset often passes laws that disproportionately affect Arab Israelis in a negative way.

    5BC2E7,

    They have more rights than in any other country in the region.

    ChairmanMeow,
    @ChairmanMeow@programming.dev avatar

    That’s not what “equal rights” means.

    Gigan,
    @Gigan@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t think that’s a very high bar

    5BC2E7,

    Better than all the alternatives in the region is not good ? I suppose that people who condemn israel would only be ok with them if they had a perfect utopia.

    BraveSirZaphod,
    BraveSirZaphod avatar

    That law is about naturalization of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, who are not Israeli citizens.

    I think we both agree that the West Bank is not the legal territory of Israel, right?

    ChairmanMeow,
    @ChairmanMeow@programming.dev avatar

    Naturalisation, by definition, involves people who are not Israeli citizens.

    It’s about Arab Israelis who are married to a Palestinian, which is the only group of people not allowed to naturalise to, and I quote, “preserve the Jewishness of Israel”. And of course, Arab Israelis happen to be the one group in Israel who marry Palestinians.

    It’s a law designed to prevent the Arab Israelis from naturalising their family members, which is a privilege afforded to the Jewish majority. It’s designed to keep the Arab Israelis a minority. And that’s not speculation, it’s literally claimed to be so by the lawmakers who drafted the law.

    HeyThisIsntTheYMCA,
    @HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

    If you keep telling people that any criticism of Israel is antisemitism, and the IDF goes out and commits war crimes, don’t be surprised if people say “well if I’m gonna be called antisemitic for hating war crimes I might as well go all the way to actual antisemitism”. It seems kind of obvious.

    MxM111,
    MxM111 avatar

    Yes, the only reasonable responce to it is become actually antisemitic and start throwing Molotov cocktails to Jewish temples.

    lmaydev,

    This is fucking ridiculous tbh.

    5BC2E7,

    So you need reasons to not act on your anti semitism? You are just repressing it.

    Syntha,

    Ahh, the “if you call me a Nazi I might as well act like one” defence.

    hierophant_nihilant,

    Nah, it just shows that the masks have fallen down

    ExIsraeliAnarchist,

    It's interesting how often people who oppose the existence of Israel (not to be confused with being rightfuly critical of its actions) are the first too make us feel unwelcome and tell Jew who facing antisemitism outside of Israel, that we just need to deal with it (and even expect it, acording to you), and if we don't like it, we should just leave.. But where is it we should be going..?
    It's almost as if what you really want is for Jews to just not exist.

    AlmightySnoo,
    @AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s as if antizionism is like antisemitism 🤔

    Oh wait, they’re literally the same. Most “antizionists” I’ve known and also seen online are covert antisemites.

    anteaters,

    They are happy to no longer be any “covert” about it.

    AlmightySnoo,
    @AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s the whole point of inventing the “antizionist” term, it makes them feel less bad about themselves because they can look in the mirror and lie to themselves by saying “I’m not a Nazi, I’m just against a state”. It’s like how anti-abortionists prefer to call themselves “pro-life”, it’s less negative.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    So since I say the same shit about the American government, what does that make me?

    Especially since I live in America.

    ExIsraeliAnarchist,

    I do think there can be legitimate criticism of Israel and zionism that is not antisemitic (like accepting that Jews deserve a safe place to live on our ancestral land, but also that ethno-states are a bad thing), but I do agree that, especially online almost all anti-zionism comes from an antisemitic place, or at least an ignorant one.

    Aceticon,

    That person defined anti-semitism such that significant fraction of Jew are anti-semites by that definition.

    Fascists commonly claim the entire nation equals “their brand of fascism” in order to imply that any who do not support their brand of fascism are traitors. Zionists went a step further and claim an entire religion equals “their brand of fascism” in order to imply that any who do not support their brand of fascism are racist against the whole religion.

    Theirs is the playbook of Fascism, with a few situation-specific adjustment.

    ExIsraeliAnarchist,

    That person defined anti-semitism such that significant fraction of Jew are anti-semites by that definition.

    and, as a Jewish anti-zionist, I disagreed with them.

    But that still doesn't change the fact that actual antisemites hide behind the excuse of anti-zionism to continue to spread antisemitism. the thread we're commenting on is a live example of this, and minimising this fact helps the antisemites.

    Aceticon,

    True.

    The conflating of Zionism with all of Israel and with the Jewish Religion as a whole has been very useful for the Israeli far right and the cost has been paid by Jews all over the World who have nothing to do with those fascists.

    Similary, the accompanying strategy of throwing the accusation of anti-semitism left, right and center at any criticism of Israel or Zionism has had a “the boy who cried wolf” effect: people don’t really believe it anymore, so when real alerts for real anti-semitism are made, people just take them as the usual false slander for political purposes.

    This was entirelly to be expected.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    Nope one is about a terroristic government who kills children and journalists all willy nilly, the other is a religion/race, I've really understood how Jewish is a race but that is neither here nor there.

    I hate the Israeli government but I can't think of a single jewish person i have met that i don't like.

    Good food and friendly people from what I can tell.

    NoIWontPickaName,

    And yet the israelis keep expanding into the west bank.

    How about they just stay in Israel and quit expanding into other peoples countries?

    ExIsraeliAnarchist,

    How about they just stay in Israel and quit expanding into other peoples countries?

    That's fine, so how about people say that, instead of shit like "from the river to the sea"?

    People making the point you just did are clearly not the one's I'm talking about, and pretending like no one thinks and says out loud that Jews have no place in the region is basically gaslighting.

    CherenkovBlue,
    @CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

    I posted this in another comment, but srsly did you read the article? “In Los Angeles, a man screaming “kill Jews” attempts to break into a family’s home. In London, girls in a playground are told they are “stinking Jews” and should stay off the slide. In China, posts likening Jews to parasites, vampires or snakes proliferate on social media, attracting thousands of “likes”.”

    That’s not criticism of IDF being taken badly, that’s random Jewish people being subject to severe antisemitic rhetoric simply for being Jewish.

    snooggums,
    snooggums avatar

    Acting like a hate filled piece of shit because people call you one means you really were a piece of shit in the first place.

    NuXCOM_90Percent,

    If the only thing keeping you from being a bigot is people patting you on the tummy then… you are a bigot.

    The issue that has become increasingly apparent throughout this (and any other time people remember that the Palestinians exist) is that: Yes, you can be anti-Zionist (for a range of definitions of “zionist”) without being anti-Semitic. But it is REAL easy to not stop with the former when there is such a strong push to be incredibly careful how we refer to Hamas (the de facto government of Gaza) and Palestine with almost no care being given toward the IDF (and Mossad and Netanyahu) and Israel. Or why the Israelis are in the region to begin with or how much of their demographics are refugees from nearby Arab nations.

    Which kind of gets back to the idea of: When your rant is indistinguishable from that of a bigot…

    To make it clear: The IDF are horrifying monsters who are actively engaging in genocide. Hamas are terrorists. And this is more or less a war between two countries at this point. But when talking points are “Fuck Israel, they never deserved to be there in the first place. Kick them all out” without even an acknowledgement of WHY they are there (and why “The West” supported them going there in the 40s…)? Well, if it quacks like a duck…

    NoIWontPickaName,

    This is a war between two terrorist groups not countries

    MxM111,
    MxM111 avatar

    If this is war, then how IDF are monsters? If Hamas is using human shields, then how do you expect IDF can conduct this war? Should they give up because Hamas uses human shields? Should Israel not reacted at all on what Hamas did with Israel civilians, because Hamas uses human shields? Would it only embolden Hamas to repeat the same many times? Is it better to cut out the cancer, which Hamas undoubtedly is, despite of the pain it brings for the sake of the healthy future without Hamas?

    These are not rhetorical questions. When I think through them I see no other way than what IDF is doing today - targeting Hamas despite of the use of human shields. It is a bad option, but all other options are either worse or just fantasy.

    NuXCOM_90Percent,

    The IDF have threatened to attack hospitals (and have in the past. Just probably not last week) unless they evacuate under unverifiable claims that Hamas are using those as bases. Which, if true, is the situation where you get troops in to secure the injured civillians.

    Similarly, the IDF have made it clear that they watched too much Speed and will “shoot the hostage” regardless of how many human shields Hamas keeps.

    And there is the ongoing trend of “Okay, all good Gazan Palestinians should evacuate along these routes. Oops, we bombed those too”

    As for “how can a nation at war commit crimes”: Ignoring the concept of a “war crime”, it is well worth looking up what Imperial Japan did in the name of war. Nobody cares about asians so this tends to get forgotten but they really are the poster children for horrific atrocities under the guise of war.

    War is inherently barbaric. But the IDF, like many nations, have used this war as an excuse to vent a LOT of pent up aggression.

    lmaydev,

    If this is war, then how IDF are monsters?

    Their actions.

    If Hamas is using human shields, then how do you expect IDF can conduct this war?

    Special ops not carpet bombing.

    Should they give up because Hamas uses human shields?

    Again they are carpet bombing the country. It’s not like hamas have civilians tied to all the buildings.

    Would it only embolden Hamas to repeat the same many times?

    Israel could have stopped being cunts at any time in the last 60 years. They have intentionally escalated time and time again. They could have sought peace.

    Is it better to cut out the cancer, which Hamas undoubtedly is, despite of the pain it brings for the sake of the healthy future without Hamas?

    Their actions will undoubtedly create a whole new radicalised generation. Every innocent they kill just creates future terrorists. It has literally been going on for decades and will now likely continue on the same. The people won’t forget this.

    Fried_out_Kombi,
    @Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, this is a great example of why I make an effort to specify the government when criticizing countries. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? I call Putin and his government evil but never the Russian people at large. China’s genocide of the Uyghurs? I call Xi Jinping and the CCP evil but never the Chinese people at large. Israel’s apartheid state and ethno-religious cleansing? I call Netanyahu and his government evil but never the Israeli people at large (and certainly not Jews at large).

    The allure of treating entire demographics or populaces as a monolith and blaming them for the crimes of their government is exactly why genocidal rhetoric is so dang pervasive, and I won’t abide by it.

    (Yes, I will also criticize civilians who actively support these crimes, but I make sure to be clear in distinguishing between them and the rest of the civilian population.)

    Jesus_666,

    Yeah, it’s basically terrible people shooting at terrible people at the behest of terrible people with tons of civilians (on both sides) having to suffer because of it. And because of how the situation works it’s hard for anyone involved to not get sucked into this maelstrom of hatred.

    And to think that there have been a number of times when this could’ve been avoided but hasn’t because the people with the power to do so either didn’t care or deliberately made things worse to further their own interests. (Or tried but were removed from power by more ruthless people.)

    It’s a horrible, convoluted, heartbreaking, multicontinental multi-century mess that’s almost impossible to even talk about without wronging someone.

    And some assholes take that as an excuse.

    DessertStorms,
    DessertStorms avatar

    It seems kind of obvious.

    if you're a bigot.

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